This just in from YeshivaWorldNews: (edited for clarity, spelling mistakes, grammar, and general Yeshivishe Shprach.)
New Rabbonim added to Rabbinical Boards
(count the refernces to "Gedolim," "Gedolei HaTorah" and "Gedolei Yisroel.")
"Gedolim were recently added to both the Moetzes Gedolei Hatorah and Torah Umesorah’s Gedolim Board. At last night's Agudath Yisroel 85th annual dinner it was made public for the first time that there were two new Gedolim added to the Moetzes Gedolei Hatorah. The two Gedolim are Rav Dovid Feinstein Shlita (no position? - HT) & Rav Malkiel Kotler Shlita (Rosh Yeshivas Lakewood). And at the recent Torah Umesorah Convention it was announced that Rav Avohom Chaim Levin Shlita (Rosh Yeshivas Telshe Chicago) was appointed Yoshev Rosh of the Torah Umesorah Gedolim's Board."
I guess we're supposed to believe that RMK made it to the board on his own right, and his last name and position had nothing to do with it. RDF's appointment is a little easier to believe, at least he has some personal merits. What also is a bit perplexing to me is the fact that there is as of now only one (semi-quasi) Chassidisher "Godol" on the Moetzes when years ago it was full of them. Ger is also not represented at all, when in Israel they run the whole show! I just can't believe that I sit here and wonder this out loud. I should have better things to do with my life than to debate whether or not RMK appointment to the MGH is a political one or not.....
What is the process they use for selection? Name recoginition in Aguda circles?
ReplyDeletewhy do you care
ReplyDeletele'chatchella ariba?
Agudah is dying in the Yeshivish circles. There are no chassidim involved, and few Yeshiva liet. To combate that, they decided to add the name of the most yeshivish yeshiva in America, RMK. No, I don't think it is due to his great merit. And I am a close supporter of him. As I have said in the past, chassidim are taking over the Litvish world
ReplyDeleteBy the above, I mean the concept of inheriting positions etc
ReplyDeleteInteresting that a Lubavitcher would be pointing fingers at supposed nepotism in the Yeshivish world.
ReplyDeletePeople in glass houses...
who do you suggest should be in charge....R'Krinsky? the Rabbii with the 'real' smicha you met on Lag B'Omer?
ReplyDeleteObviously, the Rabbonim with the greatest profiles, widest set of followers that fit into the mould of what Agudah is and stands for would be chosen.
Again, it's nice to report but why all the cynicism, hate and finger pointing? Maybe you just feel threatened by another non chabad organisation...I don't know. Whichever way, you sound very insecure
The point here is to defend against cries by Yeshivishers and other Chabad haters of supposed nepotism in Chabad. As if this was something new and only in Chabad.
ReplyDeleteDisgusted:
The point is to have the opinion of the greatest sages of the generation, not to bring a block of votes like Lakewood would. Otherwise the Mattersdorfer, Rav Feigelstock and some of the others shouldn't be there.
What they accomplish (the Agudah)can be done with a small office of Askonim. All the Rabbinics are of very little interest. Obviously I'm very jealous. Right.
Hershel, I think you should be more concerned over the Vaad Harabonim Berel Lazar is trying to create. By the way, Cheers to them for voting not to invite Volpa to their inauguration meeting.
ReplyDeleteThe Agudah will not appoint any Godol who has a mind of his own and will not blindly follow the political agenda of the "Askonim" , "Shtadlonim" (sic) who run the Agudah.
ReplyDeleteThis is one of the reasons that they do not appoint any Chassidic Godol.
Another reason is that the Agudah is reaching out to the MO world (the modern orthodox) and as such does not want to come across as being very Right wing.
"supposed nepotism in Chabad."
ReplyDeleteSupposed? What do you call it when a shliach carves up his territory into little holdings for all of his kids? Open competition?
I do not know much about the processes involved here, and the Rabbinic world is full of nepotism at every turn, but why do you suggest RMK is not worthy of the position on his own merits? I do not know him and am not defending him, I am just curious.
ReplyDeleteTrue, he probably became the Rosh Yeshiva because of his last name, but I have never heard a disparaging word against him (and I have had a number of relatives and friends in Lakewood over the years). He must be a talmid chacham... Does he not have merits other than name to be on the moetztes?
Is Heshy going to open this up to a free fo all loshon hora fest?
ReplyDeleteI guess Loshon hora is not very important because Lubavitch don't have a daily Chofetz Chaim shiur
RMK is a talmid chochom, and a very fine Jew. I would be thrilled if my son grew up like him. He is devoted to Torah and chessed. However, to say that he is one of the six or seven biggest sages of this generation is a joke.
ReplyDeleteTzig, I sense some sour grapes here. Maybe you were simply too young to be appointed at the present time. Sort of like the papacy, lehavdil.
ReplyDeleteTzig.
ReplyDeleteThat the Charedi world (and I will include the MO Torah world as well) is dominated by Nepotism is no chidush . And this goes back at least 200 years. And it is not necasarily bad just look at dynasties like Volozhin (Soloveitchik, Shapiro etc), , Mir, Schneersohn , Alter (ger), Rokeach (belz)The Meltzer-MM Epstein clan (sons in law of Reb Frank of Kovna) etc etc.
In the US currently there are few Chassidic groups that are part of the Aguda, the 2 most influential, Lubavitch and Satmar are not, Skver is not as is not Rachmistrivke, Skullen is not , Reb Motlee Hager of Vishnitz is not, Popa is not . Kluizenberg is somewhat, Bobov is neutral, Nitra is not, Karlin is not, Munkatch is not, Belz is somewhat.
So "adrebba "who would you chose as Chassidic reps on the MGT I can only think of 1 candidate thats Rav Elya Fisher of Ger, but the Gerer have their rebbe in israel and he is a kol yachol.
The present MGT in the USA has 1 rebbe the Novominsker who is the Nasi of the Aguda a nd a semi Chasid ,Rabbi Ehrenfeld of Mattesdorf who must represent the Hungarian community.
I would however nominate 2 additional Lithuanian gedolim Rabbi Birnbaum of Mir and rabbi Henoch Leibowitz of RSA. They are real leaders and lomdim.
You are correct about the Roshe Yeshiva , but the Israeli MGT is full of rebbeim who are there only because their fathers were.
Lets face it if the whole Moetzes said something and lets say Rav Elyoshev disagrees who would we follow, the same was true in regards the Lubavitcher rebbe and the MGT after the daeths of Reb Moshe and Reb Yankev.
Its all politics.
Maybe I missed it, but who has ever accused Chabad of nepotism ? Of all things, this is the one where they're definitely not guilty, if from sheer total lack of anything resembling a meaningful leadership (for good or not).
ReplyDeletePlenty of nepotism in Chabad, the Frierdiker Rebbe is the Nosi Doyreynu, and so is his son in law.
ReplyDeleteThat doesn't count; you can't make any balagule a rebbe, gotta be a Schneerson.
ReplyDeleteBy the way the American MGT as always dominated by the roshe yeshiva. te only rebbes on it were : Boyaner, Novominsker, Bluzhover and Kapishnitzer . The roshim included the geonim rabbonim Feinstein, Grozovsky, Kaminetski, Ruderman, Hutner, Joffen, Bloch (Telz) Katz (Telz) Reb Aron Kotler and others .
ReplyDeleteThere just are not any Chassidic rebbes close to the Aguda in the uSA of the type they need.
There never were any rabbonim on this council a fact decried with great pain by the late Rav Simcha Elberg in the pages of HAPARDES.
RMF was primarily a Rov, not a Rosh Yeshiva
ReplyDeleteBTW, RDF and Erenfeld are primarily Rabbonim
ReplyDeleteI do not know about the Mattesdorfer rav , he may have a kehhilo, but Reb Moshe and his son have no kehillos , they are or were morai Horah or dayanim but not communal rabbonim in the sense that they led or lead a kehillo and are involved in all aspects of the life of all kehillo members, frum and not so frum. This was the mark of a European rav. Kovna had a rav the Dvar Avrohom who was involved in all aspects of kehillo life educational, political social , welfare ,etc . Psak was usually done by the Kovna dayanim. Thus the Feinsteins with the greatest kavod were more like dayanin that is paskenim dinim than a communal rav. And it was this factor that Horav Elberg always bemaoned.
ReplyDeleteRav Z. Gelley of KAJ is a rav not a dayan. The late Rav Teitz was a rav, as is Rabbi Rivkin in S. Louis .
Well, at least Rav Moshe was a communal Rav in Europe for many years
ReplyDeleteHow come nobody mentions the halacha, brought down in the Rambam that royalty is only for beis Dovid? Is that not the ultimate nepotism??
ReplyDeleteReb Yankev was also a rav in Lithuania and the North America (Toronto and Seattle).
ReplyDeletePerhaps that is why both of them had a n extra measure of sechel called the 5th Shulchan Aruch even if people disagreed with them at times.
People like Reb Shmuel Berenbaum will never join the MGT because of the bluff that's been going on there for decades. He's too truthful for that board.
ReplyDeleteThis is supposedly not just a group that dictates policy for a single little group or for an institution. This is the group that represents all of Orthodox Jewry. Are we to allow politics to dictate policy. Just because your father or Zeide was on the board does that mean you should be too?
EVEN IF YOU DO NOT LIKE THE CHOICE, IT DOSNT GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO SAY ANYTHING NEGATIVE ABOUT THESE GADOLIM. THEY HAVE DONE NOTHING TO DESERVE THIS CRITISISIM AND ARE TRUE MEN OF TORAH. I UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT HOWEVER YOUR APPROCH TO MAKING IT IS HORRIBLE.
ReplyDeleteI agree with anonomous. I doubt there are even a few, if any, talmidei chachomim who can learn as well as R' Malkiel. Your hatred toward people you know nothing about reveals mountains about your character.
ReplyDeleteReb dovid shlita is someone who only wants to learn. His anuva is increadable, he does not wear a long coat and untill a few years ago persoannly loaded the soda machine at mtj. He has time for every messugah who hangs out there. I am just surprised he accepted
ReplyDeleteWhat is wrong with nepotism, anyway? Do you think rebbes are selected through a civil service exam or strictly on merit? In fact, nepotism has ample support in halacha. MGT, after all, is a committee designed to project unity of the chareidi world, not an assembly of prophets.
ReplyDeleteWhile I do not want get involve how it came to be that the appointment is considered, Yet , it is not just the honor that is granted, but it is role of providing a service of leadership to the community, not every one wants the job and the responsibilities that goes with the job. that being said, My father Rav H. Feigelstock is a member of the hanholah of the lubavitch yesivah appointed by admur Rytz 2 of my brothers are leading rabonim, one in the chabad rav in B.A. Argentina
ReplyDeletethe other as rosh bet din in Vancouver. both involved involved in kashrut. My father had the honor of having yechidus with admur raitz on same day of the wedding - and having the rebbe zt"l mesadur kedushim, my father brother happens to have the name of Yosef Yitzchok as well! Lbavitch in Montreal have produced many of the shluchim that would otherwise have not been within Lubavitch fold.
My fathers younger brother Rav Yitzchak has produce an immense number of students that love him forever, he is a gentleman first, and a rav second. My father older brother has establish two schools one in Manhattan, the other in Brooklyn.
All there commanded the love from their students.
We all get along very well; I will venture to guess that my uncle Rav Yitzchak is hardly involved in the MGT, for he has limited capacity, after having a strong stroke. Yet, they have not replaced him MGT. I think there is more then eye sees. All the three brothers have given their life in chinuch and their mark still lives in their students life. And I am sure they are all not in the business of kovod. I just come to show that Chabad and yeshivsh community has more in common then before.
I think that we have more in common then those who have a grudge for old time sake, it will be right to drop their ammunition for the sake of sholom al yisroel.
Schneur Feigelstock
I don't care how many raabis they give kovod to/chanfa/use! My taane is that they could be spending more of their dough to help the klal. Why the h*** do they need an office on Broadway????????
ReplyDelete