Tuesday, May 15, 2007
Rabbonishe ChoMeTZ
(The last Rov of Ludza - לוצין)
Rav Isser Zalmen Meltzer worked with Rav Shlomo Yosef Zevin on Kovetz Yagdil Teyreh, a Torah Journal, while both were still in Russia in the Nineteen Teens. Many Rabbonim and Roshei Yeshiva contributed to it, but they were the backbone of the publication, Rav Zevin probably more so. RIZM was Rov in Slutsk, and RSYZ was Rov in Novozibkeveh. Rav Zevin was a Talmid of the Boibruisker Rebbe, Reb Shmaryohu Noach (Shmerel) Schneersohn, grandson of the Tzemach Tzedek, and a staunch supporter of Mizrachi. Many would ask Reb IZM why he had such a close relationship with RSYZ when the latter was a Mizrachist,a Tzionist, and a Chabadsker to boot. RIZM realized that and was said to tell RSYZ: "Du bist Chometz, a Chabadsker, a Mizrachist, un a Tzionist, Ober ich hub dir lieb sy-vi."
(Poet CN Bialik visiting Ludza, Rav BZ Don-Yichye is pictured here as well)
Such was the case with many others who may have had disagreements with Rabbonim as to how to treat secular Zionists and whether or not to support Zionism. But if the Rov was a Talmid Chochom and a Yerei Shomayim his political views were not that important after all. Another of that class of Rabbonim was the Don-Yichya family of Rabbonim; Reb Lazer and Reb Benzion; Rabbonim in the Latvian town of Ludza - לוצין for many years, and until the community was destroyed by the Nazis YeMaSH. They were staunch Chabad (Kopuster/Lubavitcher) Chassidim, but very proud of their connections to Zionism and Mizrachi. It seems like in those days you could be a Chossid of your Rebbe, but you didn't necessarily need to adopt all of the Rebbe's political opinions. I also believe that the people in the town were not Chassidim, so here's a case where the Misnagdim took a Chassidishe Rov.
(a Siyum HaShas and Mishnayos in Ludza)
This, and countless other such cases shows me and any objective reader that a change took place recently that was not - or rather would not have been - sanctioned by the Jews of pre-WWII Lithuania and Misnagdic Russia/Latvia. They looked at a Rov as we all should, as a teacher of Torah and a man who should be there for his people in times of need. Today we need for him to belong to our party, to think the way we do, otherwise what's he worth. We need for him to pledge allegiance to this Godol HaDor and that Posek HaDor. I point the finger at myself as well; sometimes I find it difficult to consult with a Rov who's not of Chassidic stock, but truth be told I do it, and it's easier for me now too. I wouldn't ask him everything in life, but mostly everything, at least where we agree in life. That was also always the case in Lubavitch, where the Rov in town was Red Dovid Yakobson, Nit kein Chossid, and many Roshei Yeshivas were not Chassidim as well.
Photos courtesy of Shtetllinks-Jewish Ludza
Please stop writing with acronyms like RIZM and RSYZ. It gets tiring trying to figure out who you are referring to.
ReplyDeleteDu Foyler Shtrick!
ReplyDeleteImagine how difficult it is for me to write out those long names each and every time.
It is called cutting and pasting. ...oh, I feel so bad it would be SO difficult for you!
ReplyDeleteHeshy
ReplyDeleteThis is the first time in a long time that you post a non negative post that I mostly agree with.
We will probably get into a whole fight about who is to blame for this 'new' style that ,mostly Lubavitch and others do not live together very well.I think that the best proof, that though it takes two for tango, Lubavitch is unfortunately mostly to blame, is from the shtot Lakewood.Why:Well Lakewood is a Litvishe style yeshiva with a very vibrant chasidic community.Crown Heights on the other hand has virtually no non Lubavitchers in its midst.That would tell me that if you are non Lubavitch you will not be very comfortable living in a Lubavitch community.
Some small heoros:I believe that Rav Zevin learned in the Mir.Could you verify that? I''ll add that Rav Zevin was not really Lubavitch as you have said yourself(Bobroisk), he was quite a bit older than the Rebbe and was his own man.
Btw, what I wrote about other groups not living with Lubavitch was written without negativity, more a statement of what I have seen, so let's have a discussion about why it's that way
living alone has hurt them, no doubt. But the others could've stayed too. If only they'd listened to the Rebbe.....
ReplyDeleteI have written many non-negative posts recently, go back and check.
I believe RSY Zevin did learn in the Mir.
The Rebbe respected him and sought his opinion. Yet, RSYZ saw himself as a Chossid of the Rebbe, even if he wasn't a full-fledged Lubavitcher.
Wasn't Yagdil Torah started by HaGaon Dayan Abramski in 1928? Check here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yehezkel_Abramsky
ReplyDeleteThere are few (not no) non Lubavitchers in Crown Heights because they left during the 60s and 70s when crime increased.
ReplyDeleteTzig, an excellent post that should bother no one that does not hate you personally.
boropark, this phenomena has crossed all communities, it is not a Lubavitch vs others story.
I haven't seen the Kovtzim in like 1o years. I remember RSYZ being very prominent there. maybe I was wrong, but Wiki can be wrong too. The point is not who authored what, but the lesson to be learned.
ReplyDeleteObviously the gold standard in THEORY was to hire a rav who was a talmid Chacham , not one who was a party man.
ReplyDeleteBut in fact this was rarely the case. If a town was blessed with a chassidic community in Poland, Galicia or even in White Russia those chasidim tried to appoint one of Anash as rav if not rav than a dayan. If there were more than 1 chassidic group you had a major machlokes lets say between Radzin and Ger and the result was either nazchanus of Ger in every battle aginst Aleksander or compromise ie the election of a Olamshe rav like the case in Lodz and Warsaw.
In towns with 1 group of Chassidim vs. misnagdim , in White Russia you tended to have 2 rabbonim like in Dvinsk, Bobroisk , Kurenitz vechuli, or constant machlokes.
Then after WW1 you had fights between Zionists who wanted a modern rabbi and the charedim who wanted an alt modishe rav such fights took place in may places in east Europe.
In Poland , Galicia and Hungary (after WW1) the main rebbes all tried to appoint members of their family to rabbinic positions where the Chassidic group had supporters thus you had fights between Rabbi Joel Teitelbaum who tried to appoint a cousin as rav of Krole and the Spinker rebbe Hayad who wanted his son in law as rav there. Belz had a tremendous interest in appointing family members and relatives to rabbanus positions in Galicia as did Tzantz etc etc.
saadne dAre Chad hu.
How did you decide that R' Dovid Yakobson, was not A chosid? Its obviously wrong.
ReplyDeleteI didn't "decide." That's the fact.
ReplyDeleteAlthough 2 of his famous disciples became Zionists (Rabbonim Zevin and Telushkin) the Bobroisker rebbe was not a Zionist and had a hard line against Zionism.
ReplyDeleteThere were some Gerer Chasidim who were Mizrachi, a few Belzer who were Aguda members and the like. In Israel you had the Stretiner rebbe Rabbi Brandwein who was a Mapainik.
How did you find out that this is the fact.
ReplyDeleteI just asked Berl Levin and Yehoshua Mundshein and both agreed that he was a Chosid, So If you can please furnish proof for your "fact" It woult bolster you point.
Thanks
N. Gr.
a Lubavitcher Chossid?
ReplyDeleteif I'm wrong, I apologize, but that's what I remember. I guess my memory's failing me.
Hey Tzig, I hate to say this but you sound like Harry Maryles pining after the good old days when being Orthodox meant, going to mixed affairs, going to a shiur once a week and going to the White Sox game on Chol Hamoed.
ReplyDeleteAll kidding aside, in bygone times there was plenty of juicy machlokes between Chassidim and misnagdim and advocates of Rabbonim that belonged to competing Chassidusen too.
Being selectivly nostalgic is another form of historical revisionism. You should know better.
Just some historic background. Yagdil Torah journal was started by Rav Isser Zalmen and Rav Moshe Tomshvar in Slutsk. It was primarily an excuse to raise funds. Meaning that it was illegal to send fundraisers to raise money for a yeshiva. So they were sent to raise money/subscriptions for the journal Yagdil Torah. Addresses were written out by the future Rebbitzen Kotler. In the 1930s, Rav Tomshvar restarted it in America.
ReplyDeleteUH!
ReplyDeleteif so then it has to be the Nineteen Teens, since the future Mrs. Kotler was already married with children in 1928. Anonymous (3:04) claim and Wiki are then incorrect.
beleive it was in the early 1920's as per the Pinkas Slutsk. But the future Rebbitzen Kotler could have been married at the time, as the move to Kletsk was only in 1926. Before that Rav Aron was rosh yeshiva on Slutsk together with his fater in law.
ReplyDeleteBTW, the tone of this blog has improved a lot lately. Less sinas chinom, more intresting historical tidbits. Keep it up. Although a good fight does liven things up.
Tzig, thanks for the post. My zeida was born in Lutzin and emigrated from there to South Africa almost 100 years ago. His brothers followed later but his parents remained. Seems as if a large portion of the younger people of the town did the same thing.
ReplyDeleteElter zaida R Moshe HYD was killed together with the rest of the community in '41.
Hmmm
ReplyDeleteI'm not looking to start a fight but what did you mean by this? ''boropark, this phenomena has crossed all communities, it is not a Lubavitch vs others story. ''
I was pointing out that Lakewood for example the mother ship of Litvishe yeshivas in America has a very large chasidic community, many chasidishe shuls and shtibelach such as Ger, Skver,Klausenburg , Satmar and even Lubavitch.In Crown Heights it does not exist, neither does it exist in Kfar Chabad.I want a honest reason why.I don't think the crime issue is a good enough reason.
http://www.crownheights.info/index.php?itemid=6473#c.
ReplyDeleteTzig:Some guy posted once uopn a time a story that there is a full size portrait of the Rebbe in Oholei Torahs beis medrash.I thought the guy was a Snag making stuff up, to make Lubavitchers look like they worship the Rebbe.Today in the link I brought above I see that it appears to be true.There is a large portait of the Rebbe in Oholei Torahs mesivtah beis medrash (it's not a full body one, but I think that this is a different beis medrash, that one is for older boys maybe)
With all due respect,after seeing the pics I was shooken up.I've never ever seen something like this.I also think it's against the halocho of having the picture of a person in a place used for worshipping Hashem.I don't know enough about this, but feel that there must be something to some of the stuff people are saying about Lubavitchs excesses.
Please do not take this as an insult, I really want to know what you guys have to say about this.
Also, can you tell me a bit about Rabbi Miller the editor of the Gutnick library?He seems to be a knowledgable guy, in english to, a bit of a rarity amongst yeshiva boys, he also has a black beard and seems to be a young man.R'Millers lecture was in Oholei Torah and that's where I saw the pics
boropark, crime is the precise reason. I see you don't know local history. Are you familiar with blockbusting, riots and urban warfare, in the recent history of our country?
ReplyDeleteAs far as crossing all community lines, I mean precisely what you said about Lubavitch and others, that all communities have become more insular and defensive of their own positions, less trusting of others and unwilling to accept other authorities. In fact, the only place I have personally seen such acceptance is the places where I have seen shluchim accepting the local non Lubavitch Rov as their Mara DeAsra.
Intersting how Litvishe Yidden chose davke South Africa as their destination when most others traveled to America. What was it about SA that attracted them so?
ReplyDeletetzig,
ReplyDeleteI rcall that Zevin printed a shiur of rav Kamoi of the old Mir in Migdal Oiz of Mondshien,
Don yichya influenced Reb Chaim to take a Calabrar/ anave Esrog,
Anon from Thursday at 1:53pm: As you can clearly see, the picture is on a side wall, not in the front. As far as I know there is no halachic problem whatsoever with this. If you know differently, please cite a source. A picture on the front wall would be another matter entirely. Any picture at eye level is somewhat problematic, if only because it will tend to distract the davenner; a picture of a human form is a real problem; and a picture of ones rebbe is a huge problem (אסור להתפלל אחורי רבו).
ReplyDeleteI was once in a shul in Y'm where there was a picture of the Rebbe on what appeared to be the front wall, since it was the wall with the Aron Kodesh. I nearly walked out, but instead I asked someone about it, and he explained that the direction of davening was not to that wall but to the corner. When the minyan started I saw that indeed nobody was facing the picture, so I felt comfortable davening with them.
millhouse,
ReplyDeleteA couple of years ago there was a polemic on that subject between Rabbi Levin of the Library and Rabbi Bogamilski of Maplewood, they both wrote thick pamphlets, it would be nice if someone can scan on the web.