(Der Alter and Talmidim, Sof Yomov)
NOTE: Some Halting of Kup may be needed here. I haven't thought this one out as much as I needed to, so the continuity here, the flow necessary to understand the writing of a guy like myself, may not be present here. VeItchem HaSlichoh.
In a way the Yeshivisher Oylem has lost its love and devotion to its Rabbeyim, but maybe they're not all to blame. Yes, we see lots of pictures of Reb Chaim K and Rav Elyashiv in the papers, and yes we see Rav Aron Shechter "dancing at the Rabinowitz-Prager wedding in Passaic," but it's all a mirage. In the old days you see pictures of giants like Reb Boruch Ber sitting on the grass or in a lawn chair and his Talmidim around him. They went with him on Datshe, and he didn't seem to mind having them there. Today no Rosh Yeshivah wants to be bothered with a bunch of Talmidim hanging around and observing his every move - and maybe rightfully so, I wouldn't want that either - and especially not when he's on vacation. far Reb Boruch Ber hut yeh gepast to sit outstretched on the grass in Druskenik or suburban Vilna without his Kapote with a Sefer in hand, but for today's sheine Roshei Yeshivah past es nit. Maybe that's why the end result, the final product of the Yeshivishe Velt if you will, is not what it used to be.
We speak about this Yeshivah and it's Shnit, and how it's been lost on today's youth, but we fail to realize that most of today's youth cannot handle what it takes to make something of yourself. Most Bochurim didn't go to Slabodka all "cut out" for that particular Yeshivah, they were good kids who wanted to learn and make something of themselves. The additional character traits that Slabodka added came later, and after much effort to internalize the teachings. Some never did internalize the shnit and just made a name for themselves throught the Torah they learned there. I would dare say that the Kletzker/Lakewooder Rosh Yeshivah wasn't a Slabodker per se' , he just happened to learn there. You can argue that point. The same would go for Rav Ruderman. The Dolhinover may be the exception of the three, with a quasi legacy of Mussar and working on Middos, but did he go there just to drink from the well of Reb Nota Hirsh Finkel? I don't believe so, but I've been wrong before.
Just to make it fair, I'll go out on a limb here, and say something that my Lubavitcher friends may not agree with. I may also be accused of being a Nifred and a Ungarisher Ferd, but so be it. I believe that in today's day and age Chabad too suffers from that devotion, although to a lesser degree. A Lubavitcher may think of himself as having a strong identity, and of being very much a Chabadnik, but often that's not the case. A Chabadnik today needs to have several things: (in no particular order) 1) a strong sense of bringing Jews closer to Yiddishkeit, 2)a strong desire and Geshmak in learning, Nigleh that is, and 3) a head for learning and understanding Chassidus Chabad. Without it he's somewhat incomplete because he cannot do his part in either learning Chassidus Chabad BeHavonoh VeHasogoh, being Eysek in Hafotzas HaYahadus, or learning Teyras Rabbey Vi es darf tzu zein. I therefore have this svoroh that not all Bnei Chasidei Chabad have what it takes to carry the torch and become Lubavitchers themselves, unless we change the curriculum in some Yeshivos, or set up Yeshivos where less time is spent on Chassidus. More on that at a later date, B'ezras Hashem.
So who do you have a poroblem--bachurim/Chabad Chassidim? Or their Roshei Yeshiva/Rebbe?
ReplyDeleteYour point is obvious and hispardus shouldn't even be mentioned. The Rebbe set the criteria for hiskashrus in Hayom Yom as learning the Rebbe's Torah and following his horo'os. That doesn't necessarily mean that missing one item means ois Luabvitcher, but it does mean that the gentleman with a television in the home is disconnected on that one point, or perhaps even more whenever it is turned on.
ReplyDeleteGuravitzer
ReplyDeletethe point wasn't to say that you're Oys Lubavitcher if you don't do what you need to. I mean to say that not every guy born to a Lubavitcher father has what it takes to be one. If he has no Geshmak in Chassidus, or if he has zero head for it, how does he stay a Lubavitcher, and what makes him one?!
Tzig
ReplyDeleteuntil now you have looked for ways to be accepted in the lubavitch sviva by hating misnagdim, but after reading this article i relize that you are stam a jewhater who doesnt hate misnagdim but hates all jews...
If someone is just born to a Lubavitch father, he'll generally follow chabad minhag, nusach, and learn chasidus to the extent of his ability. Is that not enough to make him Lubavitch?
ReplyDeleteYou make chabad sound like this exclusive club. Is it really?
Zrok Chutra LaAvira AIkrei Koi - the Ikar is a Lubavitcher.
ReplyDeleteI think that,nowadays, only someone who is in Shlichus or in Chinuch is a Lub, with very few exceptions
ReplyDeletel'maan ha'inyan Druskenik today.
ReplyDeleteGreat post and I appreciated your view on Slabodka.
ReplyDeleteFor sure there are many differences between the previous generation of Shelichim and thoses of today. Maybe your 3 points have something to do with that. Thanks for your POV.
Not less time for chassidus,but more time for nigleh.
ReplyDeleteRav Ruderman was the Dolhinover.
ReplyDeleteThe problem in all kreisn is that the Yeshivish world is too large to have that kind of personal contact with the big guns. cf. The end of yechidus in the 70's. The famous Roshei Yeshiva of the pre-war era also had small "fanbases".
I would strongly disagree about your assessment of Rav Ruderman, who was probably one of the BETTER examples of the kind of talmid the Alter wanted. And it is a stretch to say even Rav Aron Kotler wasn’t a Slabodka talmid. Yes he was more Kanois than the Slabodka schnit, but RAK considered himself a true talmid of the Alter. Much like RYBS, many different talmidim took many different lessons/approaches from one person, each claiming that is the ‘true’ mehalach of there Rebbe.
ReplyDeleteHowever, as far as you first point, it is definitely true (and to be lamented) that there is much less connection between today’s Bachurim to their RY than there once was. Why is a long story, one of which I am not sure myself.
HT wrote "If he has no Geshmak in Chassidus, or if he has zero head for it, how does he stay a Lubavitcher, and what makes him one?! "
ReplyDeletehating Snags :-)
Seriously, to a certain extent your Rebbe/Yeshivah can/is for many people a ‘team’ of which you’re a fan of
zero HEAd for it? That's interesting.
ReplyDeleteIf we don't fulfill your criteria, can we drop our kapotes?
ReplyDeletehmmm interesting post HT, I mostly agree with you (though I agree with YK that what's needed is definitely not less chassidus). Unfortunately posts like this anger people because they don't want to hear that their getchke is not immortal. Lubavitch is not what it used to be. Back in the day a Chosid was expected to know nigleh like a misnaged, have midos like a poilisher AND on top of that to have a thorough grasp on the Seder Hishtalshelus...at least to the best of his ability. I'm not saying there aren't any such Lubavitchers but let's face it...your average Lubavitcher doesn't learn nigleh to the best of his ability, doesn't have midos to the best of his ability and CERTAINLY doesn't know Chassidus to the best of his ability. I am no better, but if nothing else let's at least act a little like Lubvavitch by being truthful to ourselves in our Cheshbon Nefesh.
ReplyDeletemendel, that's a pipe dream. No one expected your laundry list of anyone. Tomchei Tmimim wasn't a bunch of Nissen Nemenovs. You were expected to walk into Yechidus, come out clean but with privacy, and although Chasidim huben zich geriben Yechidus was always the mainstay of Lubavitch. Notice that the Rebbe stopped it when people stopped taking it seriously, not initially because of illness - veyesh lomar that standing on your feet for 6 hours each Sunday may be worse than sitting in an office through the night 3 times a week.
ReplyDeleteThe pandemic of our youth,snag and chosid alike, is not that they are geboirener but that they are fehrtigehr* i.e. that they consider themselves finished products at the age of 17-18 when they are just beginning to lose their kinderishkeit and really have some capacity to become serious mekablim.
ReplyDeleteThe mashpia can possess the greatest overabundance of shefah in the world but if the talmid's kli kibul is closed all efforts to ennoble said talmid will become exercises in futility.
______
* BTW this is the differnce between the holy midah of Yitzchok Ovinu and it's dark underside expunged from the yikhus of k'lal Yisroel by Eisov (born "finished" with teh hair and teeth of an adult.)
Tzig is in the eternal search of being accepted and loved.He tried it in Lubavitch, tried to copy them, their accent (tayreh, for example)but has remained the ferd with seichel in mechileh.Now he is turning on the Lubavitch, don't learn enough, not every one can be a Lubavitcher, blah, blah.
ReplyDeleteGo back to your Viener Chayder.You will never be accepted, your place is with the Hungs.
Am I flattering muself or are the words "Homogonized Yeshivishism" in your title a nod to my recent post?
ReplyDeleteBaachi:
ReplyDeleteI never knew they teach Psych 101 in Hogyhazs! Nagyan Szep!
Chaim G
That's tough to say, really. Although it may be that the term came to me only after reading your long and informative post.
G,
ReplyDeleteOpen your eyes, dude. They may have not been a bunch of Nissen Nemenovs, but a bunch of Mendel the Sheichets they weren't either. The fact is that we are not the lamdonim we once were and it's not just us it's everyone. I'm just pointing out a fact, not saying that we're "ois lubavitchers" because of that fact. What makes us Lubavitchers IMO is that just like the Chassidim fun amol, when the Rebbe says "jump" we jump without even asking which window.... Besides, one can dream, can't he?
you go to CH, there are many color shirts ,many not wearing a hat or a suit. Is this LUB?
ReplyDeleteThinks have changed
In the chedorim they teach every year the same sichos
Kids are Lub in cheider, Yeshivos, if they don't become shluchim, they become "modern Lub"
sheichet, un kein shaaloh you can speak for yourself... :-).
ReplyDeleteLubavitch actually used to not judge by clothing. The major players perhaps wore bigdei kehuna as general Rabbonim did in Europe, but not on average. The issue is not the color shirt or the suit or hat, but if they wear what they wear out of fashion fad and style... which they do.
'Lubavitch actually used not to judge by clothing'
ReplyDeleteGuravitzer, are you a Hung by any chance? The quote from above is not exactly easily understood.You probably meant that Lubavitcher did not wear classic conservative clothes, well you are 100% wrong!
You are probably trying to score a point by rewriting history so it sounds as if Lubavitch is not in massive 'freying out, copy Modern Orthodox mode' which it is.
I was in C.Heights on Gimmel Tammuz:The modern, rich crowd from The Five Towns could take some 'dress lessons' from the future/current shluchos.'Modern Orthodoxy' with a slight twist
Shmerel, you failed to read my last sentence.
ReplyDeleteIF you go out of Tsfas or Kfar Chabad, in most places Tznius in both ,men or women, it is an issue . Unfortunetaly the "Modern LUB" trend , affected a portion of Shluchim as well (specially in USA)And this is something that you see also in many Chabad Houses.
ReplyDeleteLub and the Chabad Houses used to be considered as an "ultra orthodox movement" (black, clothing, white shirts, sheitels, long skirts,long socks for girls,exagerated mechitzos)
Now , some Chabad Houses became "Modern Lub", Mechitzos are al pi din, Sefer Torah goes to women side to be kissed,kiddushim and classes with not mechitzos,as well as other activities)
And also we see an extra Ahavas Ysroel for ppl with money
I mean, very little effort to get this guy with money become frum, just great Kavod b/c of the gelt
The Rebbe's influence in these points, are missed
We always tend to lionize the "good old days", and ignore the fact that their were issues in the past, just as their are issues now. The question is, what can be done about it? To convert the present day issues into a soap box to present your pet peeves accomplishes nothing. The only true thing I can see is what can be done in each individual family, to rigidly enforce Tznius for all members of the family - tznius in what they wear, tznius in how they behave, tznius in what they see - for the males and females. We can't rely on schools or environment, unless we create the school and environment. That is why new school have opened in Crown Heights, because of parents who wanted the rules they live by enforced at school as well.
ReplyDelete