Vilna in the news
The Cossack Chaim Burshtein, a despicable excuse for a Jew, wants it all. He won't be happy till Krinsky is a thousand miles away, and Vilna is Chassidimrein. I just don't understand why there's no money for Krinsky, when the rest of the FSU seems to be doing just fine. I guess that's explained somewhat later in the article, with Krinsky's status still upin the air as far as Chabad FSU HQ is concerned. In any case the hypocrisy of the Chossid haters screams out to the heavens. The self-righteous act they put on still seems to work however, no matter how lying and hypocritical it may be. I guess when you have an all-powerful newspaper doing your dirty work, and with the help of untouchable old Roshei Yeshivah, the Eylem Geylem will buy anything you sell.
Every time I begin to wonder if you a good guy, you manage to convince me that the worst Chabad haters are right!! Firstly read the article. Seems the Chabad rabbi wants to dominate Vilna, as snags have been long since saying, that Chabad wants to be the ONLY one. And is it so terrible/strange if Vilna wants a Rav who WONT push Chabad on them. Or takes a native Russian over a NYC boy. Na. Must be just hate for Chabad!!! Btw, do you really think Chabad is the legitimate heirs of the Litvak community? What percent of pre war Lita was Chabad, 1%. That is the percent of the reparations Chabad should get. I just wonder what you would say if Ponovich tried to get property that had belonged to Chabad in Europe, claiming they are the true heirs.
ReplyDeleteTwisty
ReplyDeleteI thought you were smarter than that...
read up on Chabad in Vilna, on the history of the shul and Krinsky there, and then maybe talk to me. There's no "community" that wants Litvak culture and Nusach. That's a load of hogwash. They're using that excuse to grab away control. They want the money that the Government will give, and the restitution of the building. There's no need to bring any "what part of lita was Chabad?" into this conversation. Don't be suckered into this. Burshtein is a liar and a thief. Refusenik, my behind.
"Seems the Chabad rabbi wants to dominate Vilna, as snags have been long since saying, that Chabad wants to be the ONLY one."
ReplyDeleteYes, cherrypicking quotes can certainly convey that image. Knowing Krinsky from his early years in Boston I can say he simply wants to be recognized for the work he has done up to now; before Alperovicias' Burshtein tool showed up.
"And is it so terrible/strange if Vilna wants a Rav who WONT push Chabad on them."
Do you really mean "Vilna wants"?How do you know what that is? Is the plurality of one Simonas Alperovicias enough of an avatar to gauge the consensus of all Vilnius jews? For some reason I doubt that.
"Or takes a native Russian over a NYC boy."
Uh, we're talking Lithuania here, not Russia. The Lita Goyim want nothing whatsoever to do with Russia today and I see no reason to believe that local Jews feel any different. The Russian Burshtein is as much a foreign "interloper" as anyone else.
"What percent of pre war Lita was Chabad, 1%."
What percent of post-war Lita was "Litvak"? 0.0% The Nazis and Bolsheviks make pretty d@mn sure of that. :-P
"I just wonder what you would say if Ponovich tried to get property that had belonged to Chabad in Europe, claiming they are the true heirs."
Well, it has been posted before on this forum that the Panevėžys pre-war Jewish community had a pretty significant Chabad presence. When the folks at Kiryat HaYeshiva start showing interest in their namesake community then we can ask that question. Until then this is purely hypothetica.
I like the claim that Burshtein "shares its traditions and customs". What traditions and customs? Before Krinsky came to town there was no yiddishkeit at all. Every single shomer shabbos in Vilna is the result of Krinsky's work. "Local leaders continued to look for a rabbi, a Litvak like them." Is Burshtein really like them (what "them"?), a mechalel shabbos and chazzer-fresser?
ReplyDeleteJust thought I would add to this obviously extremely important issue that Hmmmm is an ass of enormous proportions.
ReplyDeleteHersch, your hatred toward those who are not Lubvatichers is extreme. There is not justification for it.
the shame is that corporate Chabad has distanced itself from this Krinsky. quite obvious in the article even to the writer of this clip. He's a nephew of the Baal Hagoloh.. and its all about politics even in Chabad.
ReplyDeletewake up Tzigeleh.
we're not immune.
Thank you again for the compliment, Snag of enourmous proportions and baal hachazir. May all Snags go snag themselves, beginning with freie sheigetz snags in Vilna.
ReplyDeleteSuddenly you are the arbiter of who is and who is not a despicable excuse for a Jew? May Hashem help us all if that's the case.
ReplyDeleteAs with any community dispute, I'm not sure how a bunch of people in Crown Heights or Flatbush can know what is really going on here. Krinsky says there is no need for two shuls. So what does that mean? There must only be one with him at the head even though the local community opposes it? That's ridiculous.
It's the Lithuanian's community and frankly they can do what they want/have whoever they want as head. I don't see why anyone from their soap boxes in Brooklyn should be lecturing them otherwise.
>>Thank you again for the compliment, Snag of enourmous proportions and baal hachazir. May all Snags go snag themselves, beginning with freie sheigetz snags in Vilna.
ReplyDeleteLike I said, Hmmm is an ass.
PS He is not that great in the dikduk department, either. But, hey, you cannot expect better of a pruste am ho'oretz.
Even if there were a genuine "local community" of frumme yidden who were opposed to Krinsky, you can't just fire a rov because you suddenly don't like him. Firing a rov is a serious matter in halocho. But in this case the "local community" that supposedly opposes him is the sheigetz Alperovich and his goons. They certainly have no right to fire the rov and hire a new one.
ReplyDeleteMy heart sings from the praise of snags. I'm in snag heaven!
ReplyDeleteOk, lets analyze this realistically. I will concede that there probably no frum yidden in Vilna prior to Krinsky coming to Vilna. (I am not sure how many there are now). However, those yidden who were/are interested in Yiddishkiet are motivated not by a realization that ‘Torah Min Hashamayim’, but by an interest in rediscovering their roots etc. So you can imagine that they would rather a Russian born Litvak over a NYC Lubavitcher. Which I am sure they perceive as being more along their tradition (whether they keep it or not) than Chabad. This would be true even if they are all Russian transplants. Yes, I realize there is a difference between a Lithuanian and a Russian, but there are a lot closer than a NYC Lubavitcher, both culturally and religiously.
ReplyDeleteYes, I know there was Chabad in Vilna prewar, including a yeshiva. And I think they deserve reparations in accordance with their percent of the community pre war, simply from a Chosen Mispath standpoint. And what was that, 1%? Or 2%. Certainly not much more.
In closing the article didn’t make it look like Krinsky has to much support from central Chabad. Why? To ponder, can a Lubavitcher ever be wrong in a fight with a none Lubavitcher? Doesn’t seem like you guys will consider the possibility
Btw
ReplyDeleteR'Dovid Smith z'l from Manchester (iirc)was the first person to go to Vilna.This is prior to Krinskys arrival.R'Dovid was an interesting fellow:A illuyishe person, talmid chochom, kanoi.
He died a few years ago
Let all of you nay-sayers and would be Misngadim know where the truth stands:
ReplyDeleteI lived in Vilnius for close to four months and have helped with peulos several times over the past three years.
With out Rabbi Krinsky there is no Yiddishkeit in Lithuania.
There is no Litvak community, 98% of Lithuania's Yidden were murdered -most of what was is there today came from Belarus (where, for the record, there were many more Chabad chassidim)
B'chol eifen, the people there love Krinsky, and are cowered into submission by the back-handed moves of the 'kehila' -a group of people with no shaychus to Yiddishkeit.
Let not a person who cares for the emes say word against an ish haemes like Krinsky who is moser nefesh mammesh for other yiddin.
Twistelton - you are 100% right that baalei tshuva have a tendency to follow their own roots instead the 'kiruv organization'. you see this in all sorts of institutions, Chabad, Ohr Sameach, vechuli. It makes complete sense that these Jews would prefer to have someone closer to their own stream as their leader.
ReplyDeleteHowever I find these circumstances highly suspect because of the intensity of the dispute. When a Rabbi works hard to build up a community, he engenders great respect regardless of his background. Communities don't suddenly turn against their own Rabbis just because someone 'better' comes along (especially when they invited that Rabbi to come in the first place). I am sure that the Vilna community feels gratitude for all that he has done. So why would they be so bitterly opposed to him shortly after another Rabbi arrives on the scene? Aside from the fact that you can't fire a Rov lightly; after all that he has done it just wouldn't be Mentshlich! I just don't see how it is possible for a community of sincere Jews to kick out their longstanding Rabbi just because he as the wrong ethnicity.
To me this dispute smacks more of political strongarming than genuine community sentiment. Rabbi Krinsky was working in Vilna for over a decade before Rabbi Burshtein came, and it sounds that he was brought in more to depose Rabbi Krinsky than to fill an existing need in the community. The glowing terms that Rabbi Burshtein used to describe his predecessor in this interview with the Yated (given a few months after Rabbi Burshtein's arrival) only serves to confirm my suspicions. This is what's known as a 'hostile takeover', and as in business, the everyday workers aren't the ones doing the bidding (it comes from outside).
You also mention that Krinsky doesn't seem to have so much support from 'central Chabad'. In my experience Chabad doesn't function well as a top-down organization. If a Rabbi faces opposition coming from his own community, there is not much Merkos can do more than hold his hand and wish him well. It certainly couldn't impose him on the community; each shliach has to handle their own turf. Merkos can help with politicking or making government connections but I doubt they have strong inroads into Lithuania.
"Firing a rov is a serious matter in halocho."
ReplyDeleteWhere does the CH bais din election debacles fit in with these halochos?
Twistleton must get out of the fixation people seem to have with shluchim trying to teach everything the Lubavitch way. That might happen in some places, not in all places, by all means. Maybe they won't put pictures of the GRA in every classroom and give mussar about pas be'melach, but they will teach the children Modeh Ani and Parsha. You got a problem with that?
ReplyDelete"those yidden who were/are interested in Yiddishkiet are motivated ...by an interest in rediscovering their roots etc."
ReplyDeleteUntil talk of reparations, there was no talk of bringing in a second Rabbi. It therefore seems possible that this is not a machlokes l'shem shmayim. B'meila, why blame the tzaddikim of yesteryear like the Gaon for this fight?
krinsky in vilna is being sacrifised for the "greater good" of chabad.
ReplyDeleteit seems that there is some deal in the works between lazar in moscow and kotlarsky in new york and the "misnagdim" whoever they are (the joint in new york to be more specific) that they willgive up vilna and in return the joint will not compete in russia against lubavitch.
these are fact$ today it i$ all about $$$$ unfortunantly on both sides
In White Rusia before the War many towns had 2 rabbonim, why not do the same in Vilna. Lets proclaim 2 communal rabbis.
ReplyDeleteNow I have another kashe since when did Litvishe rabbonim involve themselves in money matters of kahal ?
The reparations issue should be dealt with by local Vilna and Kovna Jews laymen not by either of the rabbis. let them teach Tore and give shiurim, but let the roshe kahal deal in money matters. After all you don't need semicha to deal with issues of repaations.
A historical note. there was a rav in Vilna until 1962 that was Rabbi Jacob rabinowitz a great grandson of REb Yitzchok Elchonon.
As far as I am aware Chabad underground was not active there after world war 2. Indeed before the War Chabad had several Kluizen and a yeshiva there (attended by my father a"h ).
So lets sit down and work out a compromise and leave the rabbis to teach Tore.
Keep moderating, don't want any emmess to slip in!
ReplyDelete"May all Snags go snag themselves, beginning with freie sheigetz snags in Vilna. "
ReplyDeleteThis is a nice demonstration of the famous belief that Chabadskers just love all Jews...
Face it Tzig, there are two sides here and the fact is that a significant portion of the community doesnt want Krinsky. I feel bad for him, but quit blaming it on haters. It is a local community issue where alot of the community dont want Krinsky anymore.
Okay, there are several people here asserting that Burshtein has the right to replace Krinsky because it's "what the people want". Well, if that is the case please point us to any recent referendum in which every Yossel, Moishe and Chaimey got to voice on opinion B or K.
ReplyDeleteOn the basis of this article, and others published in the past few years, I maintain that this move is being made unilaterally by Alperovicias and co. There is precious little input from the larger community at work here. I defy ANYONE to prove otherwise.
Even if Krinsky did start some people there off in Yiddishkeit, what does that mean, that they are condemned to be Lubavitchers forever ?
ReplyDeleteJust like people outgrow their kindergarden teachers and go on to bigger and better things, so too, many people that start out in Yiddishkeit with Lubavitch ultimately outgrow it and proceed on to normative Judaism.
After all, when they progress and learn more, they realize that Lubavitch is not standard Yiddishkeit and gradually wonder why not join the mainstream ?
For the record, the community as rov wants Krinsky . . . Let any self claiming snag or 'anon' with a doubt fly to Vilna for even a day and ask the 'amcha' Yidden!
ReplyDeleteYou set and speak, but when it comes to helping you 'Litvishe' brethren in Vilna you won't stick you're little finger in the water . . .
Didan hachassdim Notzach!
No one has explained, if this is some fight only about money, why the community would be hellbent on getting rid of Krinsky. Is he somehow opposed to the planned scheme of reparations? Is this new rav somehow more pliant? If he was just the community rav, wouldn't it stand to reason that the community would still receive its money and property? Something simply does not make sense.
ReplyDeleteAlso, if this is a case of a group of out of touch community leadership, then where are all the supposed hundreds of followers of Rabbi Krinsky? These people haven't popped up in public according even to third party sources.
Also, what about the allegations of gross financial mismanagement reported at length in the Lithuanian press? No one has yet to address these issues or why a community should also at this point accept a rav that has repeatedly attempted to circumvent their authority by appealing (illegally it turns out) to higher Lithuanian government officials.
Communities can (and do) get rid of rabbonim, what makes this case so 'special'? Because he was first and because there are no other supposed ly frum Jews means that he's now the Ayatollah or Fidel Castro of Vilna?
Right Mottel, we're supposed to believe that a lubavitch bochur from the US, who spent some time in Vilna, has the 'pulse' of the community.
ReplyDeleteThere's no reason to believe that your supposed 'sampling' of the community is any more representative than that of Yated Ne'eman.
'Didan hachassidim notzach'? Please. This isn't 1820 and I'm not sure how Chabad can hope to strong arm a community into compliance.
Again, is it in the interest of anyone to refer to the head of the community as a 'sheigetz' and those that surround him as 'goons'?
ReplyDeletePerhaps I missed where the Rebbe ever did that. Some of the comments on here smack of hypocrisy and show precious little chasidus or ahavas yisroel.
There is tremendous revelation here, about the increase of Machlokes pi elef specifically due to the internet. This is not only about dirty laundry being aired in public, there is a sincere danger here as the machlokes actually grows larger due to this new ability to spread falshkeit.
ReplyDeleteIn the old days, your machlokes was limited to your immediate surroundings - right or wrong, the people involved were at least knowledgable in their local community, sometimes had even grown up with their baal machlokes. Letters and phones increased the machlokes to some degree, but unless a conference call was arranged specifically for the purpose of chizuk hamachlokes it was impossible for a machlokes to be influence by people with no physical proximity and no direct involvement, and even then it could not be done anonymously.
Now, people who have no idea what a place looks like, what the people look like, have no realm of reference to be able to understand a local situation are able to flaker the feier of a machlokes. A gentleman in yehupetz states that a Rov in one place is not frum enough. Another gentleman describes the makeup of a community he has never heard about. Men ken oifmachen shitos, menchen, kehilos, mikveh naies - all anonymously, and with a wide audience.
Indeed, Beikvei meshichah, chutzpah yasgei.
Anon, hide behind your veil of anonymity . . .
ReplyDeleteI lived there and know people in all of the major Lithuanian communities -on both sides of the spectrum . . . If you so wish to ask some of the 'Litvaks' I can supply you with names .
You can discredit me as you wish, the fact remains that I spent more time and did more for Jerusalem d'Lita then any of you, letting me fairly say what is going on -no yetad reporter who made a few phone calls and spent a day or two can vouch for his words as I can for mine.
It doesn't matter if you choose to discredit me, the truth remains . . .
Any Bris, any kosher chicken, any pair of tefillin, and chupa with kosher aydim was done through Chabad. The other side, the self labeled 'Misnagdim', will openly tell you that they see no problem in a yid marring a shiksa with a Jewish father, with making camps and schools that serve neveilos, are mechalel shabbos and are rife with znus . . .
There is no outcry from krinsky's supporters because they have so small a voice -we're speaking about simple Jews who went through the war, through communism and the like . . .
In the words of a Yid from Klaipeda (Memel) who davens Nusach Ashkenaz and learned in an Olamisher Yeshiva,
"Judaism here is due to Rabbi Krisnky. The effect can be seen now, but there's so much more that will take years to be revealed as the long term effects of Chabad take root. . . "
Say what you will, Toras Hachassidus Sh'hee Toras Emes will prevail!
Krinsky activities in Vilna
ReplyDeleteSo Mottel, Toras Hachassidus consists of referring to local community members as Nazis, running around to government officials in an attempt to circumvent the local community, and engaging in highly dubious financial activities? Seems more like the actions of a shanda.
ReplyDeleteSorry, but I'm not buying it. I know that Rav Burenstein does quite a bit for Judaism in Lithuania as well, so the idea that he sits around and twiddles his thumbs all day is incorrect. This entire episode seems more and more to resemble Prague a la 2005.
Is it any wonder that the Yated has the reputation that it does amongst people with a shred of decency? They have zero idea about what goes on there, and rely on very suspect sources to say the least. Also, Burshtein is assumed to be on their side, since he's anti-Chabad, even if they know very little about him.
ReplyDeleteWADR Hirshel,
ReplyDeleteVilna is not yours. Neither are many other areas Chabad has swallowed whole.
Chabad is considered overly aggressive sometimes. That is Chabad's reputation. Now you (I mean, your readers, not you personally) can just scream and call me a "snag," or you can deal with this problem, and perhaps do the right thing, and retreat out of Vilna for the sake of respecting other communities that have done things different for generations, and not seek symbolic domination in the Vilna Goan's historic backyard, as well as the money and power that affects Team Chabad as well, and not just the other side.
Which will it be, rabosai?
Soon everyone will be accepting the Rebbe as moshiach, anyone who is koifer in the Rebbe as moshiach will be sent to reeducation camps, didon notzach, yad hachassidim al haelyoinah, all you snags will have to kiss the feet of the Rebbe and all Lubavitchers, when the Rebbe reveals himself all you snags will be slaves to lubabs !
ReplyDeleteAlso all non lubavitch Chassidim will have to be sent to camps to reeducate them to dump their own Rebbes and accept only the Rebbe as their leader.
So Yated has no idea what goes on there but a group of people sitting around in Crown Heights does?
ReplyDeleteanonymous 12:40pm
ReplyDeleteRead what Mottel here has to say. he spent lots of time there and knows all the people.
i was there , and i can tell you that 99% of wath yated rights is false.
ReplyDeleteJust so you know, I wrote on The Kvetcher,
ReplyDelete"Update: The Anti-Tzemach weighs in, dismisses Litvish Jews who want to retain ancient communal norms and traditions as “Cossacks.”
You can't believe Lubavitchers and their followers there about this, they are nogeia bidovor.
ReplyDeleteAlso notice that when something online negative to Lubavitch comes up, e.g. story in a newspaper, there is a flood of comments attacking it and defending Lub.
Lubavitchers are connected to the internet more than other Chassidim and Charedim and they have people they work with who are online too, so when something critical of Lub. is posted they set loose this army of people to attack it with protests and negative comments. Some people may not realize where it is from and might be inappropriately swayed, but mevinim will realize and treat it with deserved suspicion.
DK
ReplyDeleteI saw your ignorant comments. These are not Litvak Jews trying to reatin their custome, so please cut it out.
As far as Snags being the underdog because they're not so connected to the internet, all I can say is "ha!"
I lost all respect for Lubavitch when a large percentage,INCLUDING, rabbonim,continued to push the Rebbe z'l as Yechi Hamelech after his passing.
ReplyDeleteUntil that point 13 years ago, I felt that though different, they were still legitimate members of Orthodox Judaism,after that, they turned into a bunch of 'meshugoim'
There is no argument with 'meshugoim'.It goes beyond the point of whether their beliefs are 'apikorsus'.They are probably distortions but not apostasy, but how in heaven can you have any discussions with a bunch of people, who have in their midst a powerful element of people, that still say the Rebbe is alive?!!!!
"These are not Litvak Jews trying to retain their customs, so please cut it out."
ReplyDeleteHow can you say that? How is this not an issue?
Lubavitcher
ReplyDeleteCan you just answer this point, please?
Why cant Krinsky run his own Lubavitcher set up?
Let their be two synagogues.
Sounds to me like Lubavitch has a problem with sharing.
Childish.
Wow, I'd better check the hay futures with all these strawmen being thrown about...
ReplyDeleteHeshy
ReplyDeleteWhat happened, you folks are giving you grief that you joined, what has turned out to be a nacrophilic cult?
Ok, your magyar Zaidy yantshy was 'proud' that you became Lubab.
Sorry pal, you hopped on to the wrong train, but enjoy the ride.
Btw, can you tell 'Ginzy' (shliach leinyonei hevel in BP)that if he dosen't do something about hiw beard, he'll trip over it soon.Thank you.
is nacrophilic the word of the day?
ReplyDeletevery nice.
Hirshel,
ReplyDeleteI would like you to explain to me why wanting to retain a community's traditions is not an issue at all here.
You're assuming that Krinsky did away with traditions. That's simply not true.
ReplyDeleteLet's clear the air:
ReplyDelete1) There was not a single Litvak left in Lita when Rabbi Krisnky came, not one person opening a Gemoro existed. There were completely nonobservant Jews of local birth and mostly Russian immigrants.
2) In most European cities, each religious group is a municipal group as well, there is no separation of Church and State as here. Rabbi Krinsky was the recognized Rov.
3) Rabbi Krinsky officiated in the official shul of the community.
4)In doing so, he had to recreate the community from scratch, as not one minhog, not one mosad from previous years existed.
5) His removal was precipitated by the offer of reparations to the local Jewish community. He was forcibly removed from the shul and his position as Rov, against the Pask Din of the Rabbonim brought in to arbitrate from Eretz Yisroel. The person who is being used to replace him is a former Communist Rov MiTaam.
Lubab always wanna have it both ways:
ReplyDeleteWhen Rav Landau of Bnei Brak passed away, the claimed 'yerusha' for his son, when Rav Kaplan Chief Rabbi of Tzfas (non lubab)died and his son was in the running they claime there is no yerusha in rabunnes and got Rabbi Bistritzky elected.
Vuss kimt aus:Lubavitch speak out of both sides of their mouthes and mchilehs.Vus lont zech far zey.
Heshy, you got on the wrong train
And these strong arm tactics aren't restricted to non-Orthodox either.
ReplyDeleteLast week, the non-Chabad but scrupulously Orthodox Conference of European Rabbis had its regular standing committee meeting, planned six months in advance, in Odessa in Ukraine.
A week before the event, suddenly Chabad organised another event in the same city entitled Conference of Ukrainian and European Rabbis. The only ones there of course were Chabad shlichim but the event was hastily arrnaged because Chabad cannot let it be seen that there is anything else in ukraine and russia than Chabad. Meanwhile, they phoned up members of the community and tried to bribe them to work for Chabad and they said they were opening a Jewish university in the town when there is already one there.
They really hate Odessa because the city's Orthodox community runs an amazing network of schools, shul, orphanages, yeshiva, kollel and community which is frum and successful.
Just remember the words of lev leviav to a non-Chabad European rabbi. "Russia and Ukraine belongs to Chabad. Get your people out of there."
These people are thugs. Orthodox or not. Solomon schecter schools have no less Jews in them than Ohr Avner ones.
And Chabad calling up the Governor of Odessa to beg him not to meet a delegation of Europe's most senior chief rabbis half an hour before he met must take the biscuit for chillul hashem.
Hmmm,
ReplyDeleteYou, nor anyone else, has explained WHY the local community would want to get rid of Rabbi Krinsky if this was simply an issue of resitution. If he still was in the office of community Rav, then why/how would that effect the community getting its property? Something does not make sense.
Also, unless you have some evidence that Rabbi Burenstein was a member of the Communist Party, referring to him as a communist is nothing more than sheker and contributes nothing.
Who issued this psak din? Who are the rabbonim? What are their connections? Who presented the various cases? Is this a psak din like the false one in the case of Prague?
There are too many unanswered questions that are being ignored either due to the fact that no one on this blog knows the answers or because they are unplesant.
According to this Lithuanian English language newspaper (http://www.baltictimes.com/news/articles/10785/) it seems that the Yated article isn't that far off.
ReplyDeleteI find it funny that I, who spent considerable time there, am nogeia b'davar to give an opinion, but those who never stepped foot there and most likely never will (and if so, for only a short time) can give an opinion.
ReplyDeleteLet me tell you all, don't beleave me . . . Go fly out to Vilnius and spend time speaking to the local Jews in Lithuania. If you need internet I can recommend a good internet cafe for you to e-mail me your results from.
As well, throwing in Moshiach matters has Zero connection to the story at hand.
We're speaking about a very small community here, where two shuls are not needed . . . but in any event Rabbi Krinsky runs things from the Chabad house which is a de facto shul.
Anon: The Lithuanian news paper there was fed the same drivel that Yated was (The first chassidic community was set up in Vilna in 1994? Sheker v'chazov. For the record, in many towns in Lithuania there was a majority of Chassidim (Like Rokishok), and their decendents are still around today. In Kovno a few old ladies came over to me and told me with pride that they shtamed from Chabad!)
Let us get a few facts clear: The fight here has nothing to do with Nusach, Minhag, or the Gr"a. It is about money and restitutions. Period.
For ten years no one had a problem with Chabad . . . until money came into the picture. The government planned on giving the money to the Religious community, i.e. to the Rabbi.Rabbi Krinsky wouldn't capitulate with the powers there, so they brought in Burshtein as a Rav M'taam -he may do good things, but he was brought in to get the money for the coffers of the Kehila.
To draw in support, and to present a better image, they dug up the old hatchet and used the 'misnagid' card.
Rabbi Krinsky, may be stubborn . . . it may be part of the problem . . . but it's his akshonus that kept him there for so long.
Let me see one of you illuyim live in a third world country, shecht your own chickens for meat (basar behama is a chidush there for speical occasions), import your milk, taken in an orphan and the like . . . all while running a school for ka"h one hundred children, sederam for several thousand and the like.
A person, not a Lubavitcher, visiting once asked me for the inside scoop on the politics there.
I told him,
'There's no problem with people who go the shul and not to Chabad . . . The problem is the thousands of other Jews who go neither the shul nor Chabad.'
The other side threatens people, tells them to stay away from Chabad -or risk loosing access to their soup kitchens, camps for their kids and the like.
That's what's wrong about all of this . . . that the local Jews are cowed into submission and end up staying away from all Judaism."
Mottel is a Lubavitcher missionary. Lubavitcher missionaries here have neemonus like Mormon missionaries saying edus about how people love their religion, and that those who oppose them are just a bunch of snags.
ReplyDeleteSnag2 can't seem to live up to the words of the Chofetz Chaim.
ReplyDeleteIt seems neither can anyone else on this blog. Referring to other Jews as cossaks and Communists? And to think you all engage in outreach...
ReplyDeleteGoody two shoes "anonymous"
ReplyDeleteI refer to Burshtein, who screamed "Chassidski Jihad" at Krinsky and his people, as a Cossack, because that's what he acted like. Communists? what's wrong with that? lots of Jews were communists, including the Baal HaSulom on the Zohar, and he was very proud of it.
You were there and heard him say this Hirsh? Somehow I doubt that. Also, you know what cossacks acted like? Met a lot in Williamsburg I suppose? You are also using communist as a pejorative, so unless any of you somehow know this for a fact, then its nothing more than sheker.
ReplyDeleteIt's not being a 'goody two shoes' to point out both the vulgarity and hypocrisy involved in a group of people squealing about how a certain community is purportedly playing fast and loose with halocho but then proceeds to spread sheker and lashon hara. It's disgusting.
He was videotaped standing there and screaming it at Krinsky. I saw the tape.
ReplyDeleteChasidski jihad was said (though I wasn't there). He also said in Lithuanian TV that Chabad was going to march into Lithuania with Russian tanks and try to kill him . . . go figure. Look through my posts and see if I said anything uncalled for.
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