What Harry does when he has nothing to write about.
Harry's my friend, and he does maintain some dignity there, but c'mon already! How many times can the same subject be rehashed?!
While you're there put in a good word for the Tzig....
UPDATE 2/3/08 AT 8:45PM
It seems to me that Lubavitch has become the poster child for "kick him while he's down," at least in the eyes of their detractors. Of course "being down" is only in their eyes, but they are the beholders here, so we need to see things how they see them. The Misnagdishe Kreizen have always had it in for Lubavitch, so with them it's no Chiddush, but it's the Harrys of the World, (no offense Mr. Maryles) and the Dati LeUmi Rabbis of the world, that seem to have joined in on the kicking frenzy. Why? very simple. The half-baked Jews of the world, those that keep only the very basics, and have a very hard time doing that, seemingly have realized that they're scorned by the rest of the frum world. After all, to model yourself today after a DiEved situation in America and Europe is sheer stupidity, and only a fool would LeKatchillah set up an educational system like that today. But they continue to, and keep on justifying what they do, ignoring the laws of nature, and pointing to an occasional s--ual scandal amongst the black hatters as proof that their ways are just.
The problem is that often times Lubavitch was the only friend that the ModOrthos had in the frum world. The only ones who afforded Rav Yoshe Ber Soloveitchik any respect in the frum world were the Lubavitchers. The rest of the Yeshivishers scorned him in public and privately grabbed his seforim off the shelves when they were printed, because they knew his greatness in Torah but were intimidated by him, so he was sidelined. The same goes for his brother Rav Aron z"l. Lubavitchers were also these quasi-Zionists who supposedly fought the good fight about Shleimus HaAretz, one that was popular among many in the MO world. Deep down, however, many in the Mo world were not happy with the Lubavitchers. "They're not real Zionists, they don't say Hallel on Yom Ho'Atzmaut, and they don't believe that the State is Aschalta DiGeulah." And they're right. Many of the hardcore Misnagdim also taught in places like YU and imparted their thoughts about Chassidim with their Talmidim. Not that they needed to learn how to scorn the Chassidim and their weird ways and dress, they did that regardless. But now, once some Lubavitchers continue to be out of the realm of Jewish thought, many of the MOs have decided to exact revenge on the Lubavitchers for being part of the black hatters who really had no respect for them. They now see themselves as having moved up the totem pole, and having passed the Lubavitchers on the "real Jews" list.
Nit Doh Ver S'zol Lachen....
oy vei
ReplyDeleteThis "Harry" should use his Jewish name.
Maybe this is distorting his brillant "conclusions"
What is wrong about reading a Letter ?
Did you notice that Harry deleted a comment against you, which 'crossed the lines of darchei noam'? Very nice of him, I would say.
ReplyDeleteWhy do you hate the Feldman guy?
ReplyDeleteWhy give this stuff the light of day 'meila something with some meat and bones to it, but his criticism stems from ignorance of Lubavitcher minhagim and poor assumptions.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, who is this Eli Soble? I've never heard from him before (and for sure never asked him to represent my opinion as a Lubavitcher), and what is more, can not find his name in any of the online phone directories!
Yeshivishe guys have their own pshat for a "Harry" they say.
ReplyDeleteI don't "hate" Aron Feldman, I hate what he says and stands for. He's a commenter of the lowest realms, and every time I see what he writes I realize that the man is probably a heretic who accuses others of his misgivings. I think he uses the Baltimore Rosh Yeshivah's name just to give him credence.
ReplyDeleteTzig
ReplyDeleteI'm not Aron Feldman, but I feel the words you use to describe him are fitting for my feelings towards you.
I don't hate but I hate what you represent,i.e the mah deolech sani lechvreich loh sa'avid'.You are standing up to Lubavitch bashing by bashmutzing a whole host of people who you percieve as anti Lubavitch.In your mind if you put out dirt about Chaim Berlin you are somehow raising Lubavitch.To me that is the epitomy of 'haschoso', since you are doing to others what you cry foul about yourself!
Also why are you throwing around the apikorsus label so fast?Don't you know that Lubavitch is to my knowledge the only group that has a few members who crossed the line regarding the Rebbes divinity(borenuniks).I was taught that things don't happen in a vacuum, if the crazies say the Rebbe is kaveyochol chas vesholom than there is a problem who the normal ones.It is not hard to realize that IF the Rebbe can be alive 'forever and ever' like the Meshichist mantra, which is a nice percentage of Lubavitch, than the next step of deciding the Rebbe is actually the creator is not far:Why?because every human being dies, every creation dies, if this does not apply to the Rebbe, than he is not a creation, rather a creator.
Think before you throw accusations out that can easily be thrown back at you.
P.S.I remember when you were cursing Harry M out and I tried to point out to you that Harry is one of the more decent, open minded bloggers who actually ALLOWS people to disagree with him, without censoring! something I cannot say about you, unfortunately.
Thankfully, you have now realized that Harry is a mentsch.
You have a strange taste in friends.
ReplyDeleteTo Yomtov in der krochen:
ReplyDeleteJust to take your 'brilliance' regarding the small percentage of Lubavitch nutcases to it's logical extension, let's apply it to this well-known scenario;
Since a certain well-known family in Baltimore has had so many cases of mishkav-zochor and abuse (r"l), and as you say, "nothing happens in a vacuum", might we assume that a certain yeshivah (NI) has a problem crossing the 'toeivo' line....or that R' Ruderman z"l might have encouraged abuse ?!! Is that what you're saying ?
And since you're such an expert statistician, perhaps you could assist in calculating the probability of abuse when a teenager is taught by any Rabbi W....?
"While you're there put in a good word for the Tzig...."
ReplyDeleteI did (8:56am),and Rabbi Maryles agreed(10:28am).All in all it is a positive for your blog.
Why you or others didn't pick up on the theme of how much you have in common with everyone else is beyond me.
Evanston
ReplyDeleteI did see your nice words, and I'm sorry I didn't thank you for them. I guess I got so caught up in all the Tzig-bashing that I forgot to thank you.
the only ones who "afforded" rabbi soloveitchic in the frum world were the lubavitchers.
ReplyDeletecould you please translate this into english?!
Freudian slip there. It's been corrected.
ReplyDeleteDear Hirshel,
ReplyDeleteI do not know why one needs to look for stones being thrown from outside Chabad, when Chabad has enough stone throwers from within. It would be disingenuous to suggest that there are not massive internal problems which revolve around the issue of the vocal pronouncements regarding the supposed identity of the Moshiach. Sadly, at Shabbos Mincha in my neck of the woods there was a physical confrontation in Shule between a triumphant, vocal yechi-nik and another who was predisposed to a quietist approach. The sole reason for this confrontation was that Rabbonim were unable to assert a coherent view amidst a festering sore. Most Rabbonim that I observe seem to take the view that "they are meshugah" and hope that they will just "go away". Chabad is learning the hard way that Bemokom She-ain Ish, someone needs to stand up. Reb Yoel Kahn tried and was pilloried for allegedly back peddling in his views. Chabad is a binary system in respect of Anash. It's 1's and 0's. There is only one "1" and that was the Rebbe. All the others, irrespective of their greatness are deemed "0". I don't believe that this is the legacy the Rebbe wanted to leave. He explicitly spoke about 3 Rabbonim Mashpi-im giving advice.
That the Rayyatz wrote a glowing tribute regarding the Rav is understandable given the fact that there was menchlichkeit between Reb Chaim and the Rashab, even sharing a room and divrei torah at a Shavuos table. Clearly the fact that the Raayatz's own son-in-law was briefly at University with the Rav in Berlin would also imply that a certain respect which had been handed down from Khaslavitche and Reb Moshe through to the relationship between the Rav and his Melamed existed. I don't think this had anything whatsoever to do with modernity or zionism or any ism. It was plain Kovod HaTorah---an old fashioned notion.
That others in the Torah world turned their noses away from the Rav after he decided that the Aguda position on the State of Israel was wrong, is something that members of that organisation seems to be very good at. I'm not sure that some of their people being Mevazeh the Rav would have won them points in Oilom Haboh.
I do think that your comment regarding MO views on Chabad being characterised by:
""They're not real Zionists, they don't say Hallel on Yom Ho'Atzmaut, and they don't believe that the State is Aschalta DiGeulah."
is a "tad" understated. The last Rebbe had a far more antizionist stance against the State than this. It was his right to have that opinion, however, one needs to include his reaction and words immediately after the State was established and how they stood in stark contrast to the Aguda who, caught up in the Euphoria, DID say it was Aschalta DiGeulah. Furthermore, Hallel was said in many anti shules in Yerusholayim.
Chabad will sort itself out over time, however, those who answer "everywhere" when asked "where is the Rebbe now" would appear to need an injection of plainer Torah values. I don't think they have understood Chabad Chassidus and they are not equipped to be teaching or promulgating it.
>>The rest of the Yeshivishers scorned him in public and privately grabbed his seforim off the shelves when they were printed, because they knew his greatness in Torah but were intimidated by him, so he was sidelined.
ReplyDeleteThis is one of the crudest misrepresentations you have made on your blog as of yet. And that's saying a lot. Do you always have to speak in such general terms? Don't you realize how untrue your statement is? You have no connection with the olam hayeshivas. Don't talk about it.
I don't understand why you even mention Harry? The man is a major am haaretz. When is the last time he said anything Thoradig?
ReplyDeleteanonymous 9:35
ReplyDeletewhich part is a misrepresentation, the grabbing the seforim or the intimidation?
anonymous 9:35
ReplyDeletewhich part is a misrepresentation, the grabbing the seforim or the intimidation?
>>which part is a misrepresentation, the grabbing the seforim or the intimidation?
ReplyDeleteBoth.
Frankly whoever wrote this piece knows litte of what he is talking about.Reb Moshe and Reb Aren both payed the rav respect.
ReplyDeleteAs a teen in the 1960's when I went to MTA (YU), the local Chabad people in CT only had scorn for YU and MTA with a typical Lubavitcher smile of bittul and gayve..
Furthermore exaclty how many people of Chabad affilaition came to the rav's public Yarzeit shiurim. It was certainly okay for the rav to come to the Rebbe, but I can never recall an official delegation lets say Hodakov or the Rashag coming to YU shiurim . I went to many and I don't recall anyone wearing the shmone begadim of 770. In fact I do remember seeing many white bearded and other Litvishe rabbonim attending. the same can be said about the rav's shiurim every week at the Moraih Shul on the Upper west Side. They were packed and not by the Lubavitch crowd.
I recall hearing the same "signon " over and over again from my melamdim that Reb yoshe Ber raised a kashe and my Chabad rebbes would tell me the Rebbe answered it with two words obgeshlogen. To this day the old Chabad Amerikaner call him JB.
Punkt farkert , in todays Frum world the only ones still dealing with Chabd are the naive MO community. The yeshiva world has nothing to do with them. The Chassidic world thinks Chabad is crazy and that includes Belz and Ger who sit by silently and laugh at Chabad.
The Hungarian world hates Lubavitch. many BT's hate lubavitch, so what is Chabad left with the MO's naive understanding of Chabad.
Of course there was a time until 1950 when the rav's biggest fan sat in the Chair in 770 and there was talk of a shidduch between Brisk and Chabad ... but that was a different time, completely different.
I beg to differ. Ask your local Seforim seller and see what he says. As far as intimidation; we can argue that RJBS was sidelined for leaving the Agudah, but that's not reason he was ostracized like that, especially not 50 years ago.
ReplyDeleteAs someone who owns a chain of seforim stores, I think I ought to know a bit more on this subject than you. This rumor is overblown. And there were plenty of great roshei yeshiva who, at the very least, had no "fear" of RYBS--intellectual or otherwise.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteI don't understand why you even mention Harry? The man is a major am haaretz. When is the last time he said anything Thoradig?
Monday, February 04, 2008 9:45:00 AM
When was the last time Shmuell Buttman said anything sane,let alone Torahdik?
Hirshel Tzig said...
ReplyDeleteI don't "hate" Aron Feldman, I hate what he says and stands for. He's a commenter of the lowest realms, and every time I see what he writes I realize that the man is probably a heretic who accuses others of his misgivings. I think he uses the Baltimore Rosh Yeshivah's name just to give him credence.
What has he said that is apikorsus? Because he dosen't say "Borienu"?
I say Boreinu too.
ReplyDeleteIn Bentshen.
"and there was talk of a shidduch between Brisk and Chabad"
ReplyDeleteSchneur, care to explain?
Seforim seller:
ReplyDelete1) fire your seforim buyer.
2) get a new one.
3) increase your line, don't just sell Artscroll bestsellers and Bedikas Chometz sets.
then again for all I know you could be a plumber.
The eynikel of the Rayatz was asked to meet one of the rav's daughters. As part of this BG went to Riets and sat in the Rav's shiur for a zeman.
ReplyDeleteSo what happened BG said he had problems enough being a Schneersohn...
And the proposed kalleh ,I believe married a scion of another Russian Chassidic dynasty...
I heard this episode from the eynikel.
No doubt the Rayaatz and the rav enjoyed a special relationship, but I do not believe that the same relationship existed between the 7th rebbe and the rav.
Schneur:
ReplyDeletesaying that there were Litvishe at RYB's Yohrtzeit shiurim is like saying there were Satmare at Shlomo Carlebach's Hoshana Rabba davenen. The fact remains he was treyf in their circles.
Seforim seller:
ReplyDelete>>fire your seforim buyer.
This has nothing to do with BUYING seforim, you unscrupulous swine, its about whether those seforim in question are bought by hordes of yeshivish people. And its not, contrary to your evil lies.
2) get a new one.
See above.
3) increase your line, don't just sell Artscroll bestsellers and Bedikas Chometz sets.
You are an evil am haaretz, so I expect very little from you, but here you are crossing the line. I have tens of thousands of seforim. It is indicative of the evil that is in you--and the evil you have learned in your heim--which complels you to write so maliciously.
then again for all I know you could be a plumber.
And you are a mamzar.
Treyf! Wow you are projecting the new Bnai Towra -Yated Neeman -Maran- Degel hatore ideology upon the Agudas horabbonim and American yeshivas of the the 1945-1980 period. That is the "problem" with youth . They think the world never changed and started when they began to read and understand. , thus to the youth Chabad was always like today , the yeshiva world was always the same , the Conservative movement never changed. Hob nit kin varibel, but this shows a total lack of perspective on history and events.
ReplyDeleteRav Moshe was the rav's first cousin and the Agudas Horabbonim whose president he was , stood in awe of the Rav. Bnai Tore from all American yeshivoth went to the rav's public shiurim that includes people from MTJ, RSA, Tore VeDaas, RCB RJJ etc.
Of course there were chiluke Deeoth between the rav and some other Roshe yeshivas, but please remember the world did not start in 1987 with Degel and Maran. In the 1960's American Bnai Tore went to college, were clean shaven, played basketball, wore straw hats went out on dates. And the rabbinical world was marked by people like rabbis Teitz, Eli. Silver,Reb Moshe, Rabbi Sheinkopf of Springfield, Rabbi Tobias Geffen of Atlanta and other Litvishe rabbonim many of whom were Mizrachi and others were very left wing Aguda legabe Zionism.
The same openess that led Reb Moshe to step inside 770, permitted him to be machshiv the rav .
Yes in all honesty there may have been a few kanoim then in DA Mir and Beth hatalmud and Telz but believe me the gedole America like rav Silver, rav Henkin, rav Moshe held very much of the Rav . Even Rabbi DC who made a machae in one of the ravs droshaos (Hesped on Rav Velvele of Brisk) actually went to this drosha and received no support from the other audience members. in circa 1945-1980 there was no yeshiva community in the USA, there were yechidim who considered themselves learners and perhaps at most 150 yungeleit in Lakewood , 150 !!!! There were no bnai Towra and no Chayale Bais david either if you get my drift. Treyf, man dikare shmay !!!!
Schneur:
ReplyDeleteNot knowing your credentials, if any, makes some of your more outlandish statements difficult to accept.
Saying that "No doubt the Rayaatz and the rav enjoyed a special relationship, but I do not believe that the same relationship existed between the 7th rebbe and the rav."
is simply stupid, considering the footage, with Rabbi JJ Schachter's commentary- and he was there !! Not to mention the other anecdotal evidence floating around which would also put the lie to your assertion. Methinks the years may not have treated you kindly, and you've gone a little soft, remembering things that never were, k'illu.
Oh, and WHEN did R'Moshe ever visit 770 ?!!!
anonymous 4:12
ReplyDeleteI know there was a guy that a Seforim store that would talk like you do, but he has since retired. I wonder how somebody who deals in Sifrei Kodesh can use such language, for no real reason.
Can we have your name so that we know to avoid your holy stores?
Is your name Zundel Berman?
schneur
ReplyDeleteall the Gedolei Yisroel like Rav Henkin and RMF didn't set policy in Yeshivos. Yes, their Pesokim were followed, but the Kotlers etc. ran the show starting from 1941. Nothing you can say about what Bochurim did or who attended his shiurim can change that.
Notwithstanding the inspiring footage of the Rav at a Farbrengen, which was no doubt also calculated to be a Brisker measure of Hakoras HaTov, and the commentary from [ the other ] Rabbi Hershel Shachter, one cannot cast a blind eye to the testimony of Rabbi Sholom Ber Kowalsky in his "My Zaydy's House". If my memory serves me correctly [someone has borrowed my copy] he relates that the Rav expressed certain misgivings. I believe that in Larger than Life volume 2 [don't howl] the author claims that Dr Chaym Soloveitchik related similar misgivings. Someone who sees Dr Soloveitchik could check that, although I doubt he'd comment.
ReplyDelete>>Can we have your name so that we know to avoid your holy stores?
ReplyDeleteIts not neccessary. Filthy am hoaratzim like yourself have no shaychus to Torah.
Change that:
ReplyDeleteFilthy, lying am hoaratzim who would insult rather than face the music like yourself . . .
>>I wonder how somebody who deals in Sifrei Kodesh can use such language, for no real reason.
ReplyDeleteYou are the one who lied and avoided facts by suggesting that I sell only artscroll books.
Steve. Why not ask the rav's son how close the rav and the rebbe were ? Steve the rav and the rebbe lived in New York for over 40 years at the same time, Please tell me how often they visited each other ? Does anectodal evidence indicate to you how often they spoke on the phone ? Really was it more than once that they met ? ?Steve. In the Igres, exactly how many . letters are there addressed to the rav ?
ReplyDeleteSteve oh yes Reb Moshe dropped in on the rebbe during the wedding of a son of a Ezras Tore officer I think Margolin ws the name.. Since film footage means a lot to you, the Algemeiner etc had pictures of this meeting.
Since you indulge in name calling, I can only gleam from which cheder in Judaism you originate from.
Frankly friend if Reb Moshe did not visit the rebbe I am willing to give $25 to any Lubavitcher Mosed you like and make the check out to you. Ask Berel levine, Krinsky, Groner, Simpson about this meeting and then call me, excuse me yourself stupid and as a frume Yid you should ask mechilla for name calling.
Tzig. You just don't get it . There was no Bnai Tore community in the US until the late 1960's for Rav Aaron to lead. When he died there were at most 150 yungeleit in lakewood. Perhaps half that amount in Monsey and ve su lo.
ReplyDeleteThe yeshiva Basketball league consisting of Chaim berlin, Tore vedaas MTA Flatbush and HILI etc played in a league that included at least 1 team with female yes live girls acting as cheerleaders !
Zeire Aguda Israel sponsored " mixed" activities. Exactly what Bnai Tore are you speaking of the ones who went to College at Night , or is the ones who dated real live girls ? Who ever heard of shadchanim in the non Chasidic world until the 1970's.Do you mean the yeshiva boys from RJJ or MTJ spending summer in the Rockaways on the beach ?
The Olam Hatore in those days was the Agudas horabbonim, the hundreds of Litvishe rabbonim , shochetim and talmide chachomim across the US and Tzig they all stood in awe of the Rav. These community was led by Rav Henkin, Rav Moshe and the Rav. Do you realize that until the early 1970;s the premeir gathering of Orthodox jews and rabbonim was the annual Mizrachi convention in Atlantic City not the Aguda convention which was attended by a few clean shaven Gerer and Tore veDaas chevra. And Tzig who was the guest speaker (keynote) every year at this convention yes the Rav.By the way reading his Finf Droshes would be very worthwhile for all your readers. These were all delivered at Atlantic City at the Mizrachi convention.
By the way I am certain kevodo has seen the famous picture of Reb Aaron sitting NEXT TO THE RAV at the Chinuch Atzmoi dinner. Since you are good at fishing out pictures , put out the bait and I challenge you to print this one too !!!
schneur
ReplyDeleteI know of all the pictures, but pictures like that tell only half a story. I challenge YOU to tell me if any words were exchanged by those 2 that night!
ZL and Aron Teitelbaum also have been pictured sitting together, yet no words were exchanged, and they still despise each other.
I would not say that R' Aharon Kotler despised RYBS. Tzadikim of such stature are above such things.
ReplyDeleteI didn't say they did, I spoke of the 2 Teitelbaums.
ReplyDeleteThere are other issues I am concerned with, so I can not go on about the rav.
ReplyDeleteLet me just repeat my main points : The rav was accorded little respect by the world of Chabad.He visited the rebbe once in a span of over 40 years in which these 2 "close friends" lived in NYC.
The rav was held in very high regard by the American traditional rabbinate of the the period of 1935-1980.Together with rav Moshe and Rav henkin they set the tone for the orthodox community here.
The world of Tore in America in those years was machshiv the rav as seen by attendence at his yorzeit shiurim .
That the truth is the opposite of what you posit , in fact its the MO world today who are the last group of organized Othodox jews to have any conatct with Lubavitch .
Finally if you do not believe me go to the NYPL and ask for some issues of the Morgen Zhurnal in the 1950's and see who the leading rabbonim were Silver, Soloveitchik, Belkin, Feinstein Henkin, Lubavitcher rebbe and Teitz . Yes BELKIN . Dor dor vedorshav, Chazal are not just made for pilpulim , their statements are designed for serious thought.
Tzig in 5-10 years the 2 Teitelbaum brothers will be friends. They have no hashkafic differences. But find me a picture of Aaron Teitelbaum siting next to Avi Weis or Saul Berman, Would Reb Kotler have sat next to Joe Lookstein or Emmanuel Rackman ?
ReplyDeleteShneur: First of all, RJBS visited the Rebbe at least twice (once nichum aveilim, and the second time when he attended a farbrengen). When RJBS was sitting shiva the Rebbe sent a prominent delegation to be menachem avel in his name, and the Rav thanked him in a letter.
ReplyDeleteIn a congratulatory letter to the Rebbe (70th or 80th birthday), in the Rav's own handwriting, the Rav refers to the Rebbe as "tzadik yessod olam." IIRC a copy of that letter was published in the Algemeiner and some websites.
http://www.benoni.org/Site/Blog/Blog.html
ReplyDeleteThe Rav on Chabad
Schneur
ReplyDeleteI keep on telling you this, but you seem to not want to hear it:
The fact that they went to his shiurim, and didn't invite him to come give shiurim in Lakewood etc. speaks volumes. No matter how much you'll talk about the indiscretions - and they were many - it still won't change the fact that the Rav was sidelined by the frum establishment. Ask any frum man who grew up in the 50's and 60's and went to any Yeshivah from YTV to Chaim Berlin to Telshe to Rav Gustman's, and see what he says about the Rav. I believe it'll just the same - or even worse - than what a man raised on yated ideology would say.
>>When RJBS was sitting shiva the Rebbe sent a prominent delegation to be menachem avel in his name, and the Rav thanked him in a letter.
ReplyDeleteWas the rebbe a bessere mentch? Why could he not go himself?
Hirschel, everyone has the same problems about RYBS today and in the last generation: He was one of the deepest lamdonim of his generation, deeper, I believe, than the rebbe, in fact, but his hashkafor were too alien to be accepted. They are not the hashkafos of my grandparents nor are they the hashkafos of the the rabbeim of my rabbeim. He could have been a contender, is the way I hear people talking about him. I do not know why you claim to be sympathetic to him, as his hashkafor are markedly different from your as well. It would be akin to embracing Rav Shach's hashkafos.
I realize his Hashkofos are different, but that's not the point I'm trying to make.
ReplyDeleteThe rav's comments about Chabad were almost always about the Chassiduth Chabad the theology , not the movement.
ReplyDeleteSince when does a condolence visis and a quick 40 minute appearence at a farbrengung make people close friends.Wow in 40 years in the same town they saw each other twice, Reb Itche Myer levin from Jslm saw the Satmarer rebbe in Williamsburg more often than that.
And Tsig in Tomche Tmimmim the rav was invited to give a shiur ?? Waht year and on which mesichta ?and the tmimmim did learn Lonely man of faith and you guys were familiar with his hespedim and shiurim. Does anyone in 770 even know what the Lonely man of faith is ? Give me a break. Lubavitch was the major source of the JB appelation.
I must say that you seem to get a perverse pleasure when talking about the rav being sidelined from the Orthodox estableshment. I wonder why ... The only way you will know what the rav thought of Chabad is to talk to his tallmidim muvhokim and family , and I see not one of them showing any great interest in Chabad.
Tzig,
ReplyDeleteI am not sure what this gantzer pilpul about Rav Yoshe Ber is all about. I remember that he was always respected here for his ge'einus but regarded as tzu modern and one that is mattir all kinds of strange things (that for all I know may not even be true). I never heard of any 'close friendship' of his with the Rebbe. But it was clear from the Rebbe's facial expression in 1980 when Rav Yoshe Ber was in 770 that the Rebbe held him in high regard. Why make more out of it? (Moreover, the implication of all this revisionism is heipach hakoveid tzum Rebbe'n; it is as if on aza min yachas mit Yoshe Ber.. volt epes gefelt!)
IMHO, the chief reason MOs are turning more and more against Lubavitch has nothing to do with a desire to curry favor with olam hatorah. MOs are speaking out against Lubavitch for the same reason Satmar doesn't fight us any more. Shluchim the world over are creating entities that compete directly with MO institutions (appeal to the same constituencies). Thus Lubavitch is a direct threat to them. In Satmar, on the other hand, they are no longer worried about their buchrimlach running to the Rebbe in 770... So no more threat, no more fight. Simple.
whatever. M'redt Tzu di Vant.
ReplyDeleteSchneur
ReplyDeleteI saw years ago a interview of the Rav in the Israeli Marriv from the 70's and he spoke with great admiration of the Mivtzaim, especially Mivtza Tefilin, of the guts of a young kid to stop a Jew on the street.
Reb Libel Shapiro was very close with the Rav and he has alot of info to share.