Far be it from me here to take away a person's right to self-esteem, Hashem knows I suffer from a lack thereof, and I wouldn't wish that on any other Yid. I think being comfortable with what you do, and feeling like you're an important part of any operation is key to success. But what I've seen recently in some circles has begun to irk me, and increasingly so. I've started to see a group of mostly ordinary people, with no major inherent Mayles, who seem to think that G-d must not have created the Gan Eden that could be big enough for them. They take themselves very seriously. I speak of a certain group of Baalei Batim, Yeshivishe BaaleiBatim, to be exact, and not the ones who struggle to make a living either. They see to have the best of both worlds, they live a good life, the two cars and a manicured lawn life, and have time for G-d too. They make time for learning, yet have time for eating out and other Moysros. They lack very little; The kids have Shabbos suits, shoes, and a Borsalino on every Bar Mitzvahed head, and they daven Mincha before the Shekiah too, c"v not angering G-d by praying after the Zeman. They also don't bother with unimportant things like Chassidim do, always sticking to the basics, and never deviating from the Mesorah.
Why would I belittle those who follow the Mesorah and daven in a timely fashion? I'm not, much as you'd like me to. I also Fargin those who have the means to buy the Beste Un Di Shenste when it comes to honoring Shabbos and Yom Tov. What irks me is the love affair, the self-gratification that screams from these people, as if Beshvili Nivra Ha'Olam means that G-d created all this just so I should be rewarded for my good deeds. I always knew that we were never done working hard, and that we should never believe in ourselves, they seem to think differently.
More Later, IY"H.
c'mon hershel say what you mean already- im bursting with curiosity!
ReplyDeleteI agree with you that this zemanim thing is way out of hand. In an age of 24/7 McDonalds, God does not need to close shop at exactly 5:45.
ReplyDeleteMan
ReplyDeleteYou think you suffer from low self esteem??If you did how would you allow yourself to publish this crap?
You sound 'aderaba' like a farshtunkeneh 'yesh'.
Btw
You 'have a way with words':You write much with zero 'toichen' something you must've picked up from the Rebbe, whose many hours of farbrenging were the Mother-of-long-windedness.You could literally express his ideas in a tenth of the time he used.But I guess you have long shabbos afternoons,and chasidim do very little with their time anyway(besides fighting, so the longer the farby, the shorter the fight.A silver lining to everything)
and before McDonalds god did need to close at 5:45 sharp??
ReplyDeletei dont think he is mocking zemanim, i think he is going at the 'zemanim frumeis'
>Far be it from me here to take away a person's right to self-esteem, Hashem knows I suffer from a lack thereof
ReplyDeleteAnd in typical Chabad fashion. You're inferiority complex screams froth in every thing you've posted.
Look where all those years of gaava has gotten chabad. After seven doires of thinking they are the heart of klal yisroel, they are no longer capable of integrating with the rest of klal yisroel, after all they are better. There is only one way, the chabad way.
Sticking with the mesorah? Do you mean singing yechi before and after davening or going to the mikveh at 10:00AM after breakfast and then davening?
ReplyDeleteDoes the Borsalino have to be pinched into an oblivion? What mesorah are you referring to? I'm not sure but I think the Alter Rebbe's S"A has instructions re: zemanim.
Yeah, apparently when G-d wrote the Torah he didn't know what he was talking about. He wasn't as smart as Josh. This all proves my point that Chassidim worship Hashem as they would like to be worshiped if they were hashem, not as Hashem actualy wants to be worshiped
ReplyDeleteSince when is being careful about davening at the prescribed time a negative??
ReplyDeleteI try and be open minded when it comes to Chabad but always seem to meet or read the wrong ones.
Can the normal, non divisive, non chip-on-the-shoulder Lubavitcher get up for once?
What R' Hirshel is trying to say is that these folks are self righteous un di gaava shtinkt. He is not negating Ch"v being mehader bemitzvos but the focus of their keeping mitzvos is themselvs and not Kudsha brich hu. Al derech the vort that there are those that from rov limud hatorah forget about the nosen hatorah, in tanya it says that once an hour during learning one should be mechaven that the torah is leshem the Aibershter. Hirshele Hirshele farshteist doch alein az on chassidus iz nito kein bitul.
ReplyDeleteTzig: The answer is simple, but it may not hit people between the eyes:
ReplyDeleteThere is a huge difference between children of Holocaust survivors, even the grandchildren of Holocaust survivors, from which the bulk of Chasidim come (but not gevorrene Lubavitcher BTs who are not like this) and many among the Yeshivishe velt whose families were not touched directly by the Holocaust, such as those who belonged to the Young Israel movement, old Torah Voda'as alumni, and people who have roots in the less-persecuted American goldinne medina.
The more Americanized people become, the more they become like the people you describe, smug middle class yuppies many with college degrees and professions or 9 to 5 jobs with job security.
But this is not the picture in the Chasidishe velt where people live with a persecution complex, tend to be xenophobic and are often outright paranoid, are hooked up with mystical rebbes who churn up their souls, who do not have a secular education and despise the professions and professionals and their demeanor (as you see here) and are always hungry for the next level of making a financial deal with the mantra of "oy parnusa, oy parnusa" (i.e. lomir machen gelt!) on their brains.
These are indeed two very, very different worlds.
Hey Lubab,
ReplyDeleteHow many Farbrengens did you attend (or learn (read))? When you say those comments you make us all look bad. Like the Maalach said: Loo ... oscha horagti ve'osah hecheyaisee....
Respectful Misnaged
I think the normal, non-divisive, non-chip-on-the-shoulder Lubavitchers are too busy being Jews and Chassidim and have little time for mamosh narishkeit.
ReplyDeleteSo much of your post reaks of bad taste and bitterness. Here is just an example, but hardly the most disturbing:
ReplyDelete"They also don't bother with unimportant things like Chassidim do, always sticking to the basics, and never deviating from the Mesorah."
So everyone else is just doing basics? No they are just going by the mesorah, which predates the vast majority of additions you enjoy in Chabad.
Stop being so farbissen.
>Why would I belittle those who follow the Mesorah and daven in a timely fashion?
ReplyDeleteThanks for the favor putz, it's called HALACHA, there isn't another choice.
Admit it, you just don't like the yekkes in your new neighborhood
ReplyDeleteThe idea of זמן is not a הלכה as much as a shifting set of metaphors. In the times of the Talmud the בני מלאכים got up at a certain time, making that the end of the morning. ובקומך can also mean the entire time you are awake (כסף משנה) or just when you wake up (like ב"מ).
ReplyDeleteIn terms of other "Halakhic times" there is a great dispute about שקיעה as to how it works; this is well known. The origin of this dispute is the shifting Talmudic metaphors, for instance a persian mile, three little stars etc. This is why someone like מהר"י חבר can equivocate about people who do melacha after the שקיעה.
The watches of the night in the Talmud are the watches of the Roman legions. This metaphor is obviously one that does not resonate with us (גר"א on אגדות shows just how little by allegorizing the ashmarot).
חצות לילה אקום is what David, of blessed memory used to do to thank יי. This was because he was awoken by the desert winds-- not by an alarm clock. Also remember that חצות makes comebacks periodically-- in the time of ראבה"ר for instance (על משכבי בלילות בקשתי) and in the time of the introduction of coffee and the rise of Lurianic תקון (Horowitz). Now there is the kolel hatzot so maybe this important liturgical time will return.
What is my point? Always historicize. You need to realize that Talmudic ass braying is not Christian liturgical hours (Jacques Le Goff) and not 5:43:27 clocks for netz.
I think you can make a real Talmudic case that the metaphors have shifted and now God is up whenever you can trade stocks, buy a latte at starbucks or log onto a blog. אמיתי עת רצון is the concern of the Talmud-- Just as they care about the moment of a cocks crown turning from red to white. This is a totally different worldview that is irretrievable and just as medievals adapted it to Church hours, Sufi ritual contemplation etc we need to reread it as well.
משעה שהכהנימ נכנסים לאכול בתרמתן will hopefully come soon, but until then we need to know how to be מתפלל כדת כראוי וכנכון
Yekkes? says who? This is not about Yekkes.
ReplyDeleteTzig: See, I told you that you do better with controversy and stirring the pot!
ReplyDeleteI know, but nisht alemool ken men
ReplyDeleteTzig . What you write is 100% correct. The eylam "blozt stark fun zich aleyn". After all they ahve it all Lomdus, frumkeyt, naches, beautiful wife, tons of money, men darf nit arbiten, sheine clothing , huge homes, kavod mlochim und ver vays vas noch et.
ReplyDeleteBut let me just add if Chabad were normal , with a rebbe and a normal agenda, they could be an alternative to the new middle class Charedi Judaism.
Seemed to me that Hirshel was describing Ungarishe Litvaks.
ReplyDeleteDon't confuse Ungarishe Litvaks with the real thing.
snag
ReplyDeleteno, no. these are American types, but not the simple types, those that are Mistapek BeMuet, but rather the ones who seem to have it all, or think they do.
Sounds like a bad case of jealousy.
ReplyDeleteAnd...
Bad case of 'writers block'
C'mon
either write decent stuff or shut up.
Decent, btw, does not mean dredging up crap and hate about other yidden.
Zev
ReplyDeleteI fargin them the cars and homes, just don't bring G-d into your fantasy world.
Hirshel
ReplyDeleteI don't want to be nasty,but as a Lubavitcher you probably shouldn't be criticizing people for being in fantasy world.Neither should you touch the very hot subject of bringing Hashem into this world because you guys have tried to actually deify a certain deceased individual(You probably saw on bechadrey chareidim that a Lubavitcher shul has put a pic of the Rebbe upfront in the mizrach.What's next?)
Tzig . After reading yur blog here I can say as the Rashab told the Rebbe's grandfather rabbi Baruch Schneur ZTL "Du bist meiner" We are on the same page even with all our chiluke deoth and different attitudes.
ReplyDeleteReb Schneur
ReplyDeleteyou warmed my heart.
y late father A"H in the end of his life davebed in a Modern but orthodox shul. he would always tell the Americans that the Chazanim here never cry ! And he would explain whats there to cry for here in the US, the Baal tefilla has a nice single family home , he has a pretty wife, a good job, money in the bank, fashionable clothing , and in the charedi community you can also get kavod etc .
ReplyDeleteWhat need is their to cry ?