From Here
Yosef 718 writes:
I know the Tosher Rebbe from my childhood, he is the real thing, a pure and holy soul who never saw anything bad in any Jew he met. A person who fasted 100's if not 1000's of days and broke all his bones in avodas hashem. I don't know his condition now, but many years ago he looked like a survivor of a camp, nothing more than skin and bones. One can not describe his pure middos tovos. Even the non-Jews who worked near him considered him holy and trembled in his presence. I saw it! He will give away his last shirt to the most undeserving person who is begging him for support. His assistants had to intervene sometimes, so he used all kinds of tricks to hide money from them. A person told me once how he asked the Rebbe for Tzedaka money, and the Rebbe removed his shoes and told him look here I hid money here take it. So the Tzadik was walking around with dollar bills under his feet in order to avoid his Gaba'im who were complaining the Yeshiva is bankrupt and those shnorers are undeserving. But he squirreled the gelt away for his purposes. He is also misunderstood because Tosh has become a haven for many Neturai Karta and all kinds of outcasts. But that became so because the Tosher Rebbe tolerates "everybody" and loves everybody. So over the years the place is full of the 'dregs' of Jewish society because by the Rebbe nobody is bad, he can only see good.
But the Tosher Rebbe is not and never was a zealot at all.
Yosef 718
What made you post these pics?
ReplyDeletea Tosher with a gun to my head...
ReplyDeletewhat do you mean "what?" It's part of what I do here!
I know, But why THESE pics?
ReplyDeleteBecause I think they're nice and unique. Most people probably have never seen pics of the TR as young man.
ReplyDeleteI'm a Reform Jew so I'm not too familiar with him, but something about the pictures struck a chord with me, so I googled him. He seems like a very special man, even by rebbe standards!
ReplyDelete>>I'm a Reform Jew so I'm not too familiar with him, but something about the pictures struck a chord with me, so I googled him. He seems like a very special man, even by rebbe standards!
ReplyDeleteNever met him either, but I've heard from people who knew him well in his prime that he was the real thing, totally given over to helping others, never for himself. Unfortunately in his sunset years, he is weak and surrounded by self serving jerks who are destroying his beautiful kehilla.
I usually refrain from commenting on blogs. However, upon reading "seen it all...'s" post, I felt sick to my stomach (and it wasn't the Chinese I had for dinner).
ReplyDeleteNot to be mi'katreg on bnei yisroel...but when someone who otherwise has no or little affiliation to torah true Judiasm makes a nice comment about a holy Jew how dare you start bad mouthing his people? What are you trying to accomplish?
Yes I know that not every Jewish organization is run well. In fact, many aren't run "kosher v'yosher." But DON'T start rubbing this in the face of someone trying to make a positive observation about a holy Jew. Save your badmouthing for times when it is necessary and it makes a positive difference instead of making a chillul hashem.
I know the Tosher Rebbe from my childhood he is the real thing a pure and holy soul who never saw anything bad in any Jew he met.
ReplyDeleteA person who fasted 100's if not 1000's of days and broke all his bones in avodas hashem. I don't know his condition now, but many years ago he looked like a survivor of a camp, nothing more then skin and bones.
One can not describe his pure middos tovos. Even the non-jews who worked in near him considered him holy and trembled in his presence. I saw it!
He will give away his last shirt to the most undeserving person who is begging him for support. His assistants had to intervene sometimes, so he used all kinds of tricks to hide money from them.
A person told me once he asked the Rebbe for Tzedaka money, and the Rebbe removed his shoes and told him look here I hid money here take it. So the Tzadik was walking around with dollar bills under his feet in order to avoid his Gaba'im who were complaining the Yeshiva is bankrupt and those shnorers are undeserving. But he squirled the gelt away for his purposes.
He is also misunderstood because Tosh has become a haven for many Neturai Karta and all kinds of outcasts. But that became so because the Tosher Rebbe tolerates "everybody" and loves everybody. So over the years the place is full of the 'dregs' of Jewish society because by Rebbe nobody is bad he can only see good.
But Tosher Rebbe is not and never was a zealot at all.
Yosef 718
I heard from my father that after the war my great grandfather came back home and realized that his parents, wife and 14 of his 16 children were murdered he was greatly depressed etc. He then met with the young Tosher Rebbe and had a long conversation and came back a new man and was able to continue on...
ReplyDeleteHiya Yosef,
ReplyDeleteSo when you say he loves everybody including all kinds of outcasts, would that include secular Jews, or are we beyond the pale? Just curious.
yosef said it well the tosher rebbe is a light tower for any jew of any make and model...
ReplyDeleteand to anon 2:30 a the answer is YES
every time i'd drive up there to see the rebbe, i'd meet a colorful audiance of jews men and woman of such different backgrounds, who all were seen by the rebbe, and got his blessing.
The Tosher Rebbe is himself not an Orthodox Jew, given his erratic davening times. Some would say Shahrit at 3PM is heterodox. I assume this is why he loves all Jews, not just shomrei torah umitzvoth. He himself is not shomer torah umitzvoth.
ReplyDelete"JOSH" U R OUT OF YOUR MIND???!!!
ReplyDeleteu know how many big tzadikim & rebbes davend late.
someone who doesn't ever daven בזמן can't possibly be a Tzaddik.
ReplyDeletethe famous tzadik Reb Mordechele Nadvorner among many others davend late.
ReplyDeleteTzadikim explained, the king made a scheduled time when people can come see him and ask their requests.
A minister arrived after the set time. when the king asked him why he came late, after the time was up
He answered the time is only set for people who come for their 'own' personal requests, they have to adhere to set times
But some one who is only coming for the good of the king, his kingdom and the country... not for himself, is always welcome
can i come in?
the king said of course, if u r here for MY benefit and the benefit of the kingdom, u r always welcome.
Tzadikim who pray for klal yisroel and give themselves away selflessly for Hashem and klal yisroel are not limited to zmanim.
Some explained that by davening late, the Tzadikim picked up all the tefillos that didnt have an aliyo to be accepted in shomayim. like 'שבט דן' in the 'midbar מדבר were going the last in line to be מאסף לכל המחנות.
The Rimnitzer Rebbe who was known as a great tzadik in our times, also davened late, and so does the Amshinover Rebbe shlita.
There are things that Tzadikim do with their greatness, that are in n way meant for us to imitate,
But i am wondering how dare people who are so materialistic sinking in עולם הזה תאוות mood over their heads, and haven't got the slightest idea in the greatness of such 'Yidden' who give themselves for klal yisroel and Hashem, and never mean for their own good, only for Kevod Shomayim and Ahavas Yisroel.
How dare u speak out in such manner against them.
The following may help u understand better the late davening of certain great Rebbes:
ReplyDelete(article By: Rabbi Ari Enkin)
In spite of the well-known regulations concerning the latest time for davening Shacharit each morning, there has historically been a laxity and sense of disregard for such deadlines by Chassidim, especially the Rebbes. Is there any basis for this practice? And if so, from where?
In the event that one has missed the proper time for davening, which is within four hours into the morning, one is still permitted to daven Shacharit as long as it is before halachic noon, though one will receive no credit for prayer at the proper time. Once midday[1] has arrived, however, it is simply forbidden to recite the Shacharit prayers, and one who does so is guilty of reciting God's name in vain.[2] Nevertheless, one will readily find Shacharit minyanim in Chassidic shtiebels worldwide well into the afternoon, with some Rebbes known for davening Shacharit moments before sunset!
While there seems to be no halachic justification for such conduct, there are some creative Chassidic explanations for it which may allow for some tolerance for the practice. The Rebbe of Tshechenov was once asked how he was able to allow chassidim to disregard the allotted times for prayer. He replied that: "It must be that such conduct is not truly a sin. If it was, we would have been witnessing a wide-scale incidence of "aveira goreret aveira" having a terrible effect on the Chassidim, removing them further and further from the ways of Torah. However, we in fact see the reverse – in most areas of observance it is the Chassidim who are more meticulous than the others."[3] Similarly, one authority boasts "…and if it is a sin, it is the only sin that they [the Chassidim] commit.[4]
So too, it is said in the name of the Rebbe of Ruzin that the deadlines allotted to the various prayers refer to those who come to pray on behalf of their own needs. As the Rebbe teaches, "When one appears before a king to entreat him on behalf of oneself one must be sure to appear only at the times he has designated for receiving visitors. However, when one approaches the king on behalf of the entire kingdom – he can do so at any time".[5] It is also suggested that those Rebbes who daven after the deadlines are individuals whose entire existence is devoted to the community. One who is so devoted to the community is actually exempt from praying, anyways.[6] There are many other such Rebbeshe explanations for davening late.
In a fiery rebuttal to the Mitnagdim, the Rebbe of Liska notes that those who daven late are generally those who wake up early and spend every single moment, from the time they open their eyes until they have davened, in the service of God. Whether it is immersing every morning in a mikva, spending time in hitbodedut or reciting Tehillim – their entire routine is one of "kabbalat ol malchut shamayim" just as is the essence of prayer. So too, these are legitimate preparations, referred to as hechsher mitzva, all of which are in order to be able to daven properly with all the proper kavanot. As preparations for a mitzva are considered to be the mitzva itself it can be suggested that such people aren't truly "missing" the prayer deadlines at all![7]
Indeed, mental and spiritual preparations for prayer are an important concept in both halacha and chassidut.[8] One should ponder the greatness of God and the insignificance of man prior to approaching God in prayer.[9] So important are such preparations for prayer that according to some authorities they take precedence over any concerns relating to deadlines.[10] In fact, the prayers of one who davens without such preparations are deemed to be completely worthless.[11]
Nevertheless, there have been Rebbes in the past who have condemned the practice of missing prayer deadlines asserting that the holy Rebbes who conducted themselves in this way had ample justifications and personal reasons for having done so and should not be imitated by the Chassidim.[12] The Rebbe of Dinov, Rabbi Tzvi Elimelech Shapira even writes: "There is a sickness… that people disregard the set times for Shema and prayers… do they also eat matza after Pesach or sit in a Sukka after Sukkot?"[13] And Rabbi Yitzchak of Skver: "…there are no excuses for missing the deadlines for prayer."[14]
******************************************************
[1] See Mishna Berura 89:7
[2] Rema O.C. 89:1, Mishna Berura 58:26
[3] Eretz Tzvi (Frommer) 36. See there for additional justifications
[4] Minhag Yisrael Torah 89:3
[5] Eser Orot, cited in Minhag Yisrael Torah 89:3
[6] O.C. 70:4, O.C. 93:4
[7] Or Hayashar V'hatov p. 141, cited in Minhag Yisrael Torah 89:3
[8] Brachot 30b, O.C. 98:1,2
[9] Shaarei Halacha U'minhag (Chabad) 1:41
[10] Shaarei Halacha U'minhag (Chabad) 1:43, Eretz Tzvi (Frommer) 36
[11] Rambam Tefilla 4:15,16
[12] The Rebbes of Ziditchov, Dinov, and others, cited in Minhag Yisrael Torah 89:3
[13] Derech Pikudecha Mitzva L.T. 16
[14] Mishmeret Shalom 9:1
"Hyman said...
ReplyDeletesomeone who doesn't ever daven בזמן can't possibly be a Tzaddik."
I thought this idiot only had issues with Lubavitch.It seems this pea brained,narrow minded bigot has issues with any Jew that doesn't measure up to his perverted outlook on Yiddeshkeit.Why you bother printing this pathetic indviduals insane drivel is beyond my comprehension.
There were Tenoim that didnt daven only twice a year, there are Rishonim as the Sefer Habatim that claim you can daven late, but there is no Posak, Rishon or Achron that would see a way in Olum Habu for u as a defamer
ReplyDeleteMlachei Elokim
I once heard from reb Velvel Greenglaz zol zein gezunt,
ReplyDeletethe Tosher Rebbe used to daven in the early years in Lubavicher shul in Montreal (before he made the village)since there were late minyonim,after davening there was a Likutie Torah shiur and the Rebbe participated ,once he went in to ecstasy and started jumping (in the tosher style)"ES BRENT ES BRENT the words are so holy"
Tosher Rebbe is A Tzaddik and would be a serious candidate for Moshiach
ReplyDeletedefinitely secular jews
ReplyDeleteSatmar
ReplyDeleteI agree he is Tzadik
You still need to be Hoiga Betora Kedovin Oviv
I'd describe myself a chasidus friendly litvak. I would go to the Tosher for a bracha in a second, as I was to the Ribnitzer who was also known to keep his own z'manim. That being said, the kashe is still better than the terutz. "this is their only aveira" etc. That is a silly answer. There is a Shulchan Aruch. So let them start their kabbalas ol malchus shamayim 4 hours earlier and daven shmoneh esreh b'zman.
ReplyDeleteWhy don't Lubavitch go with peyos?
ReplyDeleteI can understand davening late until חצות היום but what about Shahrit at 3PM. Its not his "only" sin since several sins are involved like saying
ReplyDeleteברכה לבטלה, מוצאי שם שמים לבטלה, מחטיא את הרבים, בגד אשה וכו'
there are Rishonim that believe its mutar
ReplyDeleteTo all those who are worried about the TR'S late Shachris: I only wish I can bend my head all the way back into my @#& , so I can see the world from your prespective.
ReplyDeleteSatmarTC said...
ReplyDeleteTosher Rebbe is A Tzaddik and would be a serious candidate for Moshiach
Well, it helps that he's alive...
'SatmarTC said...
ReplyDeleteTosher Rebbe is A Tzaddik and would be a serious candidate for Moshiach
Well, it helps that he's alive..."
And when the Lubavitcher Rebbe was alive would that have helped? I didn't think so.
Anonymous of 5:50,
ReplyDeletePlease bring sources.
Anonymous of 8:16,
I can't speak for everyone else who may have expressed themselves disrespectfully, but if you can't see that there is a need for hesbir, then you are not being honest. If a chasid would make l'haniach t'fillin an hour after tzeis, you agree that it is a bracha l'vatala, no? So why is davening after chatzos any different?
I saw on a Chabadster website somewhere that a chasid (a rav of some darga) asked that a shita of the Rebbe was not like the Rambam. He asked how that could be, because we see that the Rebbe himself said may times that the Rambam was the final word on those inyanim (bias Moshiach etc). So he resolved the issue by saying that for a Chasid, there really can never be a question because what the Rebbe said is the final word etc etc.
So do you not see why such talk could cause other Jews to get nervous?
Does the Tasher rebbe meet in any manner the quakifications for Messiah set forth by the Rambam ?
ReplyDeleteIs he a miltiary leader is a he a communal leader. has he shown any interest in fighting assimilation in the US, or for the security of Israel.
I am certian he is a fine person as our forefathers would say a "gutte YId".
but Mashiach.
Now the Lubavitcher rbbe was a communal leader who spent every minute of his time on the task at hand the future of Klal israel.
Who are the mysterious rishonim who allow shachris lechatchila 3 hours after chatzos?
ReplyDeleteBTW the Tosher is a Leivy so most ppl would say he cant't be moshiach. But H' will have the final word anyway. Sooner then you think.
A couple of examples of history revisionism in the Chreidi community.
ReplyDelete"From My Uncle the Netziv, a book sent out as a fund raising tool by the Lakewood cheder which was later recalled because it said that the Netziv allowed secular subject to be taught in Volozin to The Making of a Gadol, where the mafia of morons made R' Yaakov Kaminetzki's son rewrite a biography because they didn't like some things that he put in there about his own father (I have a copy of it, the most controversial thing is that it says he read news papers). YWN (check out the link, it's funny stuff) regularly omits stories about fraud and abuse in the charedi community yet is more than happy to report on them when they happen in the M/O community. There were two stories this past week which highlight this nonsense still currently taking place. The first one I saw on DovBear, there was a story in Mishpacha magazine this past week about the White House kitchen being kashered for the chanukah party, and there was a picture in taken of the mashgichim in the kitchen with Mrs. Bush. Mishpacha chose to change the caption of the picture and photo shop out Mrs. Bush. The funny thing is that these morons didn't realize is that you can still see her reflection in the silver foil that is covering the counter. The next story is a sad story about a guy in Baltimore who allegedly committed suicide on a bridge. The initial reports were that is was a car accident and that is what was reported by VIN and YWN. After the police report surfaced showing that it was a case of suicide Vos Iz Naies choose to update his story showing the true cause and apologizing for his initial misinformation, yet the Eckstein at Yeshiva world left the original FALSE story up. I understand being sensitive and not wanting to post a story like that out of feeling for the family, but don't leave the original false story up, if your report doesn't match the facts TAKE DOWN THE STORY. But what can we expect from a community that can do no wrong and any problem is "swept under the rug". As we all know there are no problems of mental illness or abuse in the charedi community, they are all due to a lack of learning and were invented by the Modern Orthodox to make the charedim look bad."
http://honestlyfrum.blogspot.com/2009/01/censorship-in-charedi-community-is.html
.Arthur
ReplyDeleteWhat has your post got to do with the subject at hand?
Yom tov shlishi
Arthur
ReplyDeleteit's tough to be taken seriously if you just copy and paste these long articles from elsewhere that have nothing to do with the subject being discussed....
Michoel
ReplyDeleteReb chaim Valoizhiner writes that his Rebbe the Gra was able to be cholek on the Shulchan Oruch and he teached him to follow in his footsteps, the Chazon Ish writes that the Gra and Ezra hasofer are in the same league, did theese stuff ever ever make you nervous? or its the first time you ever heard this?
Even though my above post does not directly address the subject at hand, I posted it in reference to various posters on this blog who rewrite history to further their own agenda, which seems to be quite common in chreidi and yeshiveshe circles.I'm sorry that it doesn't meet with your approval but you have the option not to read it if it offends you.
ReplyDeleteI don't think it's any worse then many inane and irrelevant statements made here.I really don't see what it has to do with being taken seriously or not.
schneur said...
ReplyDeleteDoes the Tasher rebbe meet in any manner the quakifications for Messiah set forth by the Rambam ?
No. Nor has anyone else in the last hundred years.
Psol
ReplyDeleteI guess Moshiach has been called off due to the lack of a suitable candidate?
It's certainly clear that Moshiach didn't come, if that's what you mean.
ReplyDeletethat's NOT what I mean, I was referring to your comment that for the "last 100 years" there was no candidate. So will there ever be one, if the last 100 years didn't manage to produce one?!
ReplyDeleteOf course, we expect him every day....
ReplyDeleteI see....
ReplyDeleteAnonymous of Jan 6 9:03,
ReplyDeleteEven Reb Moshe was cholek on the SA in some places. But he wrote lengthy t'shuvos to explain why, with solid mekoros in Shas. That is completely unlike the svoros chalushos sited above. "If they are doing an aveira, this is there only aveira." Is that called lumdos?