Thursday, August 13, 2009
Satmar Overload!!!
All the Jewish papers are full of the coverage, each trying to outdo the other when it comes to lekking Satmar. The Hebrew and the English ones; there's no refuge. And the silly way of referring to him: "The Divrei Yoel," is even more annoying. Nobody ever did or will call him that. What does someone like me do this Shabbos? HELP!!!
The Aronim named him Divrei Yoel for their agenda that Satmar is a Chassidic shalsheles, not a ideology. I would appreciate if some charadi media outlet would make a tally of the millions of dollars that the Titelbaums have spent for Lawyers in the last 30 years, that would be good for shabos after the chulent
ReplyDelete1 of the great white lies is that the Satmar Rovs funeral had 100,000 mourners, I was there, it was probably close to 15,000 people the shul was full and the front parking lot and thats it. There wasnt that amount charadie jews in the USA,If his funeral had 100,000 then Reb Aron has by lag beomar hadloke in front of the shul a million people.
ReplyDeleteThe newspaper coverage is all bought and paid for. I work in the Jewish media. I know.
ReplyDeleteRead Bais Moshiach. I guarantee they won't mention the yortzeit.
ReplyDelete"What does someone like me do this Shabbos? HELP!!!"
ReplyDeleteSince actualy opening a sefer for a change never really occurred to you. (and after all why would it?!) Maybe yu can play UNO or hide and seek with the kids. See if you can beat them. If your real good you can get a Shabbos party.
(sorry no alcohol around minors)
Read the Mishpacha on Rav Zelig zl ;)
ReplyDeletethey dont believe in celebrating death,life never ends
ReplyDeleteThe emri ames also has a new name.
ReplyDeleteFunny that you as a Lubab can't understand why there is such a Satmar overload this week.Actually we are coming up on 30 years since the yohrtzait so this is a once in a very long while occurence.
ReplyDeleteBut,see,we in the non Lubavitch crowd suffer every single day by the Lubab drumbeat of "auspicious days" yeder montig in donershtig.
This week I was so incensed that Zeev Brenners Talkline invaded Nachum Segals evening program, which is regularly heard from 7-9 pm.Lubab took over at about 8:15 pm with Butman telling some mayselach about the Rebbes father in honour of the yahrtzeit.
Obviously as soon as I understood the agenda I switched stations.
Motsoi shabbes on the only Jewish radio program in the Tri State we have to suffer thru a half hour Tanya/sicha kedeysha, than Butman,with more stories that he never seams to run out of for a vbery long half hour, which is repeated at 2am again.
So you can't stand one week with Satmar coverage and we non Lubavitchers have to put up with an incessant barrage,just two small examples that I gave.
Question:Aren't you ashamed to write such a post when lkol hadeos Lubavitch is the worst offender?
You have such tunnel vision that it's scary
Are you pained when your lot are not monopolizing the headlines?
ReplyDeleteMaybe another round of elections/dinei torah/court cases/fights/terrorism/flags/foundation stones will knock those pesky Hungarians off the front pages.
It's been a month or so since the last occurrence.
Toras Menachem Menachem Tziyon Volume 2 p.343 (5714)
ReplyDeleteThe Rebbe comes to menachem avel the Divrei Yoel on the passing of his daughter. The DY discusses whether Halloween is of similar status (was 19 Mar Cheshvan) as Nittel..the Rebbe concurs and they discuss why these days fall on the secular days. They also were discussing if the DY should say kaddish for her 11 months vs. just her husband saying until SHloshim and other topics...a Litvish Rosh Yeshiva enters and asks what inyan they are and the DY waves him away saying he and the Rebbe are discussing Kabalah not shayich to him...
Nu...d"l
Where can I read this online? The scans are not legible.
ReplyDeleteWHAT THE HELL IS YOUR PROBLEM???
ReplyDeleteits just to counter calling him "vyoel moishe"
ReplyDeleteNu in shamayim are the Rebbe and the Divrei Yoel discussing Kabbalah or are they in separate heichalot due to machlokes?
ReplyDeleteRead Bais Moshiach. I guarantee they won't mention the yortzeit.
ReplyDeleteThe Rebbe's or the Divrei Yoel's?
Volvie,
ReplyDeleteI see that you are allergic of Tanya and the Baal Mekubal and baal Nesiras Nefesh Reb Levi Yitzchok Schnersohn, so I think you should buy yourself a blue gemorah and you will be immune from the chabad disease of the airwaves,
BTW, satmar was not propaganda free all the 30 years, they have 3 weekly papers with loaded Reb Yoelish propaganda, between the news of the court fights.So lets not start a childish fight who his more into publicity, satmar is not Media free as Amshinov of Yerushaliem
Hirshel
ReplyDeleteThe Mavaser a good charadie paper is Satmar Rein they forgot the important calendar date.
I don't read non off them but I would like to know how many times they repeat that my grand father my father my kids are Jews because of him. Can one of your readers volunteer to give us a update.
The Diver Yoel HIMSELF wrote in the Hakdamah of his Seifer Divrei Yoel,
ReplyDeleteקראתי שם הספר "דברי יואל" לשמי ולזכרי
something like that.
SO he himself wanted to be named like that.
he didnt write the same words in his seifer ויואל משה
next case,
when Lubavitch pushes in their nose in every form of media on a daily basis. then you have no problem but once a year especially at a symbolic day of a 30th yurtzeit 2 (ONLY 2) papers have a nice artivle you go bolisitc
CUT THE CRAP my friend
גיט שבת
Lubavitchers want all the limelight for themselves.Won't share it.
ReplyDeleteis Der Yid + Der Blatt+ Die Tzeitung+ Hamodia+ Bakhila+ Der Blick etc.. calculate by you to 2.
ReplyDeleteyou should get your shoes off and count.
The English Mishpach devoted a lot of space to Reb Aharon Shlit"a. Could you please tell us if the other Chareidi publications similarly ignored Reb Zalmen Leib? Does this mean he needs some new P.R. guys?
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, the title Divrei Yoel is what the Aronim use while the Zaliies say Vayoel Moshe and its l'shitasam. Aronim like the Torah and leadership, Zallies like frumkeit and kannaus.
ReplyDeleteAlso, fact is it wasn't paid for at all and Mishpacha offered the other side, RZLT, equal time. They refused.
Did you notice how R Aron openly refers to his younger brother and his chassidus, with such grace?
The interview with the Rebbe himself is worth a million dollars, that he gave to a Zionsit papers.
ReplyDeleteThis Frankfurter has an ability to get in to the inner circle. What talent!
ReplyDeleteThe Hamodia piece was empty. Mishpacha was wodnerful, if a tad too lenghty. My own fil was a close talmid of Satmar and always says that no one had the Rebbe 'arois.' A greatly misunderstood figure, reduced to a firebrand by overzealous followers.
ReplyDeleteFred,
ReplyDeleteI think Frankfurter is biased towards Reb Aron,
Anon,
Nobody likes this or that, just they run on that ticket, Zalman Lieb and the pitbull Moshe Friedman created a issue to brainwash a certain gullible segment of satmar, with rabonim, that were playing along when the kehila went a different direction, Its like the Rav Mitaam, Instead of Rabeni Taam Zman and Underwear, they are simple Rav Mitaam
Crete,
ReplyDeleteis shomaim also full of Sheker and division?
Anon
ReplyDeleteFrankfurters shver is the Rosh Hkahal of Zakman Leib
Willie,
ReplyDeleteI think Moshe Friedman first cousin too.
but is the old man frankfuter the suit guy a zali or aroni?
The following should be taken as is; Ich teitch nit:
ReplyDeleteI recently was in conversation with a choshuve chaver-Hanhala of MTJ Staten Island (R' Moshe Feinstein's yeshiva). Between topics, he related R' Moshe's reaction when the former had said that R' Yoelish (this was in the summer, probably by MTJ's summer yeshiva in Kerhonksen) had davened relatively late shacharis (maybe pm?).
The first time he'd related it, R' Moshe "wasn't m'kabel it".
Another (later) occasion, R' Moshe said "He's an anus".
(Again - what "anus" means here, can be left to interpretation: Anus b/c of his chassidim waking late, Anus b/c of RY's brius, his Tzarchei Tzibuur -?-)
Anon asked
ReplyDeleteis shomaim also full of Sheker and division?
Not if you go to a high enough floor. Gavriel and Michoel make Lokshen, boiling the water over a fire without a pot.
Crete
ReplyDeleteIs the Lokshen from "Bakikter Eier"
I dont understand if it was PM its a beroche levatola,
ReplyDeleteBottom line; after having perused the many articles, I liked Mishpocho best, but I have a question.
ReplyDeleteIs the garbage-burning and terrorism Reb Yoelish's doctrine or not?
No he was like MLK pro civil disobedience, a few beatings from to time but not much more.
ReplyDeleteThe mishpacha article was too much about frankfurter and his in with R' Aron. For such a long piece, I thought he would come up with some interesting insights into R' Yoilish ZT"L. For example, he's got a pic with the klausenberger and R' Yoilish. Without writing all the shmutz that went on, he could have written what their philosophical disagreement was, and even how R' Aron made sholom with klausenberg recently. This article was too much of a puff piece for R' Aron and barely touched the surface about R' Yoilish. A wasted opportunity.
ReplyDeleteSeen it all,
ReplyDeleteIsrael Besser is a lot better writter
Friendly
ReplyDeleteThere is no comparison. Besser does one thing and Frnakfurter does another. Besser is a warm, compelling look and Frnakfurter is an in-depth, intellectual treatment.
Some answers please. Is the doctrine of beating etc the vision of Reb Yoel or not?
Hirshelle,do i detect a small hint of envy in your latest piece?
ReplyDeletenah it can't be, it's just my imagination.
chaim
Hirshel is indeed jealous becuase everyone frum rechens with Satmar as a barometer and nobody really looks what his chassidus is doing.
ReplyDeleteIn today's frum velt CHABAD is ancient history.They've been off the barometer since the 1970's
ReplyDeleteWillie Anon
ReplyDeleteChabad got the same amount of PR in charadie Media outside of the offical hatemongers rags, as the Der Yid (that still stick to the concept that all gedolie Yisroel were at the opposite end that whoever goes to the voting booth is a Oved Avoda Zorah)or the Yated that even Shtienman has to be whipped every 2nd day.
Anon,
ReplyDeleteBy hungarians that Yiddiskiet circled around their heimishe cheese cake and overnight kugel,Chabad functioned for a very short period, before the war you were all too busy farming the Geshtopte Gentz, drinking the great wines of Verbau that the whole world envied and who can forget the good Lekvars, life was great who had time for Chabad. A broch on Chabad
Chabad as viewed by recent developments is becoming a mix of Modern Orthodox and crazy radical Rebbe worshippers.
ReplyDeleteNobody sees them as carrying any intellectual weight whatsoever.
The crazy Meshichists are so outside normalcy that it is useless to even think of any dialogue.
The Modern Orthodox are so heavily invested in their own white elephant shuls and kissing up to their in many cases mechalelei shabbos baalei batim.
Bekitser Chabad has a movement of chochmo bino vodaaas is history
I am the poster of Sunday 12:08AM -
ReplyDeleteTo clarify and add:
I related the above mayse of R' Moshe to a Satmar chosid this morning, and he understood "anus" to mean RY's stringencies on his "guf noki" before davening.
[He would make a cheshbon, ad yomo ha'acharon, what he eats before davening and would go to the beis hakisei until he felt noki.]
In addition, Anon 12:48AM was confused re PM beign brocha l'vetala - Firstly, the Rema and others hold it a chiyuv to be mispalel mitoch koved rosh, which is usually learning Chassidus or Nistar. We're talking in context of gedolei yisroel and great Chassidim of many factions, who would daven such after several hours of preparation and meditation, and we are not on their level to judge. It may not necessarily be for every Yankel Berel, but This is m'yused b'hararei kodesh, v'ain lig'or boh.
*
Another story this chosid told me, in line with this idea, that RY took his nephew, a ben zekunim (the Ropshitzer) under his wing, and by the latter's son's bris - RY was obviously invited. They had wrote the make shacharis 2pm (when RY would assumedly daven), and bris & seudas mitzva would follow suit.
RY, upon seeing the invitation, was very upset, and told them to make it 8am shacharis, and he will be there as sandek. So it was, and he was sandek (before his own shacharis). He later davened in the afternoon – which was when the official seudas mitzvah followed.
On the topic of bris, I also heard the following: The Lubavitcher Rebbe zt"l was walking out of shul (this is in the 70s, or early 80s) and saw a tzetl for a bris hanging. The time was a late one, and the Rebbe turned to his mazkir – "Nu, s'shteit "Vayashkeim Avrohom baboker" – Mitzvos have to be done at the first gelegenheit. The Mazkir explained, that he knows this particular situation, and the mohel couldn't come any earlier, so they were mforced to have it this time. The Rebbe insisted, it should be taken down (at least the time), so as not to be machshil the rabim to think it can be done late.
The idea in general – is not to take things out of context, and also not to be frum oif yenem's cheshbon, kmuvan u'poshut. V'dal.
The subject of brissin was alleady a major issue in Poland when reb Liebel Aiger made late brissin there were some gedolim that wrote aganist him but most rebbes as the Chidushei Horim stood to his side, I think Lubavicher Rebbe also wrote a lomdishe letter regarding the late brissin can 1 of our readers post it please.
ReplyDeleteAnon,
ReplyDelete"chabad by recent developments",
can u specify?
Its intersting that most gedolie yisroel are davening in the chabad shuls as the 2 holy Tietelbaum brother, they would not want to be found alive or dead in a belzer shul for instance.
I see the chabad mashpiem are gaining crowds by the hundreds, go back to court and fight for the beis hachaim and reb zriel. and stop analyzing chabad.
On a critical note, 26 Av symbolizes the end of the summer/bein hazmanim- this year, more B"Haz's than Labor day.
ReplyDeleteThe Briskers really liked him etc.. The Rov told him that they see eye to eye on 97%.
In those days, there were a lot of Litivshe in Williamsberg (not sure if they were the ones being hailed by Yom Tov Ehrelch in that song about CH)and they got along with him.
What R' Yoilesh symbolized- determination and unwaivering towards his princpals- a kavra dimistafina meyney; the loss is pronouned due to the current state of leadership- or lack of it. In many ways, we are like sheep without a shephard, etc...
Remember, that this issue is not the technicalites of the shvues, the issue is to remember that we are in gulos -wherever we are, even if there is coca-cola and a Chabad house.
He was very reluctant to make public demonstrations, even that one in MSG was only after a lot of convincing.
This post is relevant to the previous post about those, many who shtam from a similar geographic region to R' Yoel, seem to be motivated by ostentatious tendancies.
Recently, some of the balebatishe oberlandisher Talmeday Chsam Sofer Yidden started learning in the yeshivos. Now, the same midos that cause them to drive a fancy Lexus is their impetus to go learn by 'R' Avrum Yesheya Heschel' and to be the knock in learning so the yentas could say, 'Do you know who my son learns with' etc.
IOW, it is important to know your place, in golus and in other areas. V'dal.
R' Yoel's yeshivas, especially the big one that he was in charge of when he was Ruv and R"Y (and Rebbe?) was not patterened after Telshe and Slabodko and the Mir. He would faher them on Gefes and they awarded effort, not kishron. V'dal.
There is a reason why certain mehalchim worked for certain groups and there is a reason why, maybe Tzig's tefilos will change this, that the RSFM's and Rav Dessler's model didn't work.
A strong argument can be made that just like the different mehalchim, epecially MiSnagdism/Mussor, only really works for yecheday segualah (like Rav Shternbuch shlitah),surely a shiluv/synthesis is not gonna work for the hamoyn....
This, btw, was a guest post, as per Tzig's request.
"Its intersting that most gedolie yisroel are davening in the chabad shuls as the 2 holy Tietelbaum brother, they would not want to be found alive or dead in a belzer shul for instance.""
ReplyDeleteWhy does that contradict that Chabad is seen as intellectual lightweights??Aderaba, it proves it.Chabad is seen as less "dangerous"
Because of the crazy "meshichisten" or the "blue shirt, brown shoe" "rabbis"
"I see the chabad mashpiem are gaining crowds by the hundreds, go back to court and fight for the beis hachaim and reb zriel. and stop analyzing chabad."
What you see is a major push by Chabad to put their "best men" in front.I also like to hear Lubavitch speakers like Deitsch and Yosef Yitzchok Jacobson.So what? Toras Chabad is deep,some yukel who does not know ivrey talking about Tanya is nothing.
Don't tell me whether or not to analyze Chabad,k? Gevoroner Lubavitchers are a sad bunch of losers
Don't tell me whether or not to analyze Chabad,k? Gevoroner Lubavitchers are a sad bunch of losers
ReplyDeleteright, and geborene Pupener & Belzer are a bunch of REAL winners...
You don't like Pupa or Belz.
ReplyDeleteWhy?
I love them. I'm trying to make a point. HELLO?!
ReplyDeleteOk.
ReplyDeleteBack to Chabad and their gevoroners.
Most of them are losers, don't you think?
I think you're an idiot.
ReplyDeleteThank you for your assessment of me.
ReplyDeleteNow back to Lubavitcher gevoroners.
What do you think of them?
I think any objective assessment of any group, including the group of "winners" you belong to, can have similar - if not worse - conclusions....
ReplyDeleteRealy.
ReplyDeleteSo let me ask you.Does any other group have a whole bunch of losers still calling their rebbe shlit'a 15 years after he isn't?
Does any other group believe, and now I'm talking about the so called "normal" ones, that their leader who is in oylom huemes, is Moshiach?That you can bletter his books and get answers?
C'mon.Many of the ones pushing the ideas that have made Chabad "Persona non grata" are the "gevorener losers" I'm talking about
who says they're Gevorener?
ReplyDeletewhy does that make them losers?
The way to know if they are gevorener is to check on the big guns of the movement and their backround.I'd rather not post names and then call them losers.You understand that,right?
ReplyDeleteSince what they do is crazy (you yourself talked about "objective assesment,no? Any normal person who hears someone refer to the late Rebbe as "shlit'a" would be defined by an objective assesment as being "meshigeh",right?)
the only "right" here is that I got a headache following your circular logic, right?
ReplyDeleteLet me use you as an example.
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think that you are the "great defender" of Lubavitch?
Simple.As a gevorener you feel the need to "prove" your Lubavitch credentials.Why do you need to "prove yourself"?Cuz you lack self worth.That is defined as being a loser.
That will also explain what attracted you do Chabad.It's a place that one can gain self confidence and self worth by proving how getray they are to the leader.
You once claimed that you became Lubavitch because of their "niggunim" and their "rebbeim".Look, anyone who becomes a follower of a movement just because he likes their music is missing something.As to their rebbeim:You did not know any of their rebbeim.The conclusion should be is that you became Lubavitch because of feeling a lack of self worth and feeling that in Lubavitch you could be a "tee'er" a shliach etc.You could also fill in the need of having a loving father by substituting the Rebbe.
BRAVO!!!
ReplyDeleteFreud would be proud of you, my boy!
Moron doesn't begin to describe it.
and all that Psych 101 gibberish with a Yeshivah education!
1) I saw the Rebbe and spent hours with him tens and tens of times
ReplyDelete2) I never saw Abaye and Rovoh, Reb Akiva Eiger, Reb Chaim Brisker, or Moshe Rabbeinu, for that matter. So I guess I should not be drawn to them, their teachings, or using that pristine logic, G-d either, since I never will see him.
"1) I saw the Rebbe and spent hours with him tens and tens of times"
ReplyDeleteYou saw the Rebbe at a time when people who loved and respected him, could not bear to see him in his state.
"2) I never saw Abaye and Rovoh, Reb Akiva Eiger, Reb Chaim Brisker, or Moshe Rabbeinu, for that matter. So I guess I should not be drawn to them, their teachings, or using that pristine logic, G-d either, since I never will see him."
You did not study the Rebbes works and become attracted.It was the other way round.You bacame attracted because of your neediness.Then you find "reasons"
) I saw the Rebbe and spent hours with him tens and tens of times
ReplyDeletehow much time did you spend talking one on one?
You saw the Rebbe at a time when people who loved and respected him, could not bear to see him in his state.
ReplyDeleteyou're a bad liar, my friend. You don't me at all - or at least very well -
I don't know why I bother with people like you.
While we are have some kind of "discussion" here maybe once and for all you can clear up why you would feel comfortable to be part of a group that has a large element including rabbis that claims the Rebbe is alive?
ReplyDeleteHow do you explain this almost unheard of phenomenon?
How about answering the question.
ReplyDeleteEvery reasonable person asks it
am I the only one wondering what this has to do with the topic here?
ReplyDeleteBtw
ReplyDeleteI did not ask the question from 3:59.
Of course I know you did not spend any time with the rebbe
and you know this how?
ReplyDelete"While we are have some kind of "discussion""
ReplyDeleteThe above is the relevance.
Usually you chicken out from answering tough questions.Either you diregard or use insulting one liners.
do I need to bring witnesses? people who were there with me? People who walked hours with me?
ReplyDelete"and you know this how?"
ReplyDeleteBecause the rebbe stopped yechides way before you became involved with Chabad.
Anyway, do me a favour and stop trying to give an impression that "you knew the Rebbe" that's being deceitful
Let's go back to the question of why you feel comfortable to be part of a group where a significant part claims the rebbe is alive?
ReplyDeleteSee a guy like Yehupitz, is attracted to the teachings of Chabad, but is honest enough to call crazy when he sees it
ok, fine. so every Geborener Lubavitcher who was born from 1965 and on is also a loser, right?
ReplyDeleteand every other Chossid, since he has a very strong connection with his great leader, like the Bobover and Satmarer Tzaddikim, is a winner.....
נישטא ווער ס'זאל לאכן
talking about deceitful; you seem to be changing your tone now, first I never saw the Rebbe, then I only saw him after the strokes, then maybe I knew him but I never had yechidus. Next you'll tell me I'm a loser since I didn't grow up in the 1940s...
why you feel comfortable to be part of a group where a significant part claims the rebbe is alive?
ReplyDeleteyou must be mistaking me with somebody else. I'm part of no such group.
btw
ReplyDeleteI'm also part of the group that spawned Allen Ginsberg, Leon Trotsky, Rahm Emanuel, Bernie Madoff, and much, much more. Which is worse?
I'm not changing any tone.
ReplyDeleteGoing to farbrengens a few times is not considerd "knowing" anything.Few people could actually hear the Farbrengen, fewer still could actually concentrate.You were a kid, you surely did not understand any of it.Even that was short lived.
Lets not get bogged down in that.There is little difference between us about how well you "knew" the Rebbe.
Let's understand how you are comfortable being a member of the same movement that has many that claim the rebbe is alive.
Please stop playing games.
ReplyDeletePart of a group=membership in Lubavitch
like I said, I'm part of no such group.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6GcRXRQINs&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ethecooljew%2Enet%2Fsearch%2Flabel%2Fsatmar&feature=player_embedded#t=350
ReplyDeleteWatch from 5:40 and on-what he says.
how many is a few? how old must I have been? what do you suggest I do now? would one yechidus have been enough?
ReplyDeleteDO YOU REALIZE HOW STUPID YOU SOUND?!
You see the Meshichists rule 770, have the largest Chabad yeshiva etc.Still official Chabad has not broken off.Why?
ReplyDeleteWell, someone like myself knows and you surely do.
The reality is that "official" Chabad and "unofficial" Chabad basically agree.The question is whether one need to be upfront about ones beliefs at the cost of alienating financial support etc.
Small example:Though official Chabad don't scream yechi, they still on the most part will not write "zatsal" when mentioning his name.
All agree that the Rebbe is somehow Nosi Hador, even though we are more than half way through the next dor.
In the words of Cunin aligned with official Chabad "We''ll show them all that the Rebbe runs the world"
"DO YOU REALIZE HOW STUPID YOU SOUND?!"
ReplyDeleteTruthfully,I don't.
Stop screaming, it gives you away as being insecure
broken off and gone where???
ReplyDeleteit's amazing how stupid people think they've discovered America...
more Psychobabble....
ReplyDelete"broken off and gone where???"
ReplyDeleteChabad are very good at protesting when they need to.
How do you break off?
Just like all the other chasidesin who broke off and split over much more minor issues.
Just like Chabad split into many pieces when the Tzemach Tzedek was nifter.
Just like the Bnei Yoel split with Satmar.
Simple.
Unless you guys actually agree
I see you "have no comment".Interesting.
ReplyDeleteOf interest is that you attack ever other kehilla on your blog but will never ever take on your own.Why?As you yourself say "you don't want to give "them" (Lubavitchs enemies)ammunition.But I thought that "you are not part of that group"??
Apparently you feel much more affinity with crazy meshichists than with other frum yidden.That is scary.You see in truth the Meshichists are much worse than "crazy" they are closer to ovdei avodah zora.I recently watched a camp song on their Chabad.info site.Unfortunately Hashem and the rebbe are interchangeable.They beseech the rebbe, the rebbe "knows everything".Scary.Still official Lubavitch will not break away.
Food for thought
Even Chabad Torah is no longer by Chabad. Nobody goes to Chabadnikim to learn their chasidus. Except for Reb Yoel, all of the younger generation is learning from from non chabadniks like Wolfson's talmid, and Zilber. Our Dor is seeing the bigest maivinim in toras chabad coming from outside Chabad. On one hand it's the big yofitzu, and on the otherhand it's another siman we are in ikvisa dimishicha הלוא ביום ההוא נאם־ה והאבדתי חכמים מאדום ותבונה מהר עשו
ReplyDeletedon't take the last sentence in my comment from 1 minute ago the wring way.
ReplyDeleteLast two comments were not from me.
ReplyDelete"Wolfson's talmid, and Zilber"
ReplyDeleteZilber is Wofson son-in-law and reeftzech Stutchin,no?
Who is Wolfsons talmid,though?
Zilber is Wofson son-in-law and reeftzech Stutchin,no?
ReplyDeleteyes
"Who is Wolfsons talmid,though?"
I miss typed, I meant wolfson and his talmidim, I don't know any names, wolfson has tanya and mamarim shiurim, and his talmid give shiurim by his orders. There are others, just these names come to mind.
I allowed you the fantasy to think that I had nothing to answer. It's my good deed for the day.
ReplyDeleteI'll address the Mottel Zilber comment here, which provided lots of comic relief to myself and others:
are you living in a dream land? MZ is transmitting Chabad, he's the source today? are you out of your mind? If anybody in the world is perpetuating fantasy and chappen Malochim, it's HIM! His kelblech have no idea what he's talking about for the most part, and I would dare say that he ------ oh, never mind. Why ruin a good dream for a naive little man like yourself. Keep the faith my ignorant friend.
so Lubavitch should leave like other Chassidisen? what does that mean in a case where they're not taking a new Rebbe? all the examples you cite are non-comparable for that reason.
ReplyDeletewhich Talmidim give shiurim? what are the shiurim in?
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you say something about MZ? Is because you have nothing to say? Is it because you are afraid of him? Why are you going so crazy? Did I touch a raw nerve? Tanya is more popular then ever, the AR mamarim are more popular then ever, and who's teaching it? Which chabadniks besides Reb Yoel? Does no one else have any havana? Chabad is all to happy to prove we are almost there becuase Tanya has become so popular outside, but chas visholom to say anyone understands it. One thing that disappeared after the Rebbe was niftar was Chabad - in an organized manner - actively to spreading Chabad to Chagasniks, and believe it or not they are still getting it more than ever.
ReplyDeleteI'm not the one dreaming.
not dreaming, just oblivious to the facts.
ReplyDelete"which Talmidim give shiurim? what are the shiurim in?"
ReplyDeleteDon't know their names, Torah Or, I think there are a few others, maybe derech mitzvsecha. His Tanya shiurim are extremely popular.
don't know their names? I see. btw, what do you think is RMW's influence when it comes to the shiurim?
ReplyDelete"don't know their names? I see."
ReplyDeleteso I must be making it up. go to his shul and check the noticeboard, there should be a list of shiurim and names there.
"btw, what do you think is RMW's influence when it comes to the shiurim?"
I don't know what you want with the word influence, they sold thousands of sets of cds of his shiurim on tanya.
why are you bickering over pointless specifics, and trying to discredit what you cant stand with the attacks. the fact remains true lubavitch is on the verge of not being the mandiamar on toras chabad, the chagasniks have won.
"Keep the faith my ignorant friend."
ReplyDeleteI'm glad I allowed you the good deed of the day.
Only problem is I was not the one who posted about Zilber and Wolfsons talmidim giving shiurim in Chabad Torah.I was anon 5:23 asking for clarification.And anon 5:22 telling you that those were not from me
Sorry to burst you bubble.
If you had the ability to analyze you'd realize that the anon 5:00 is not my style.
From now on I''ll choose the name Mugen Ovus
" which provided lots of comic relief to myself and others:"
ReplyDeleteSo you have a whole board of directors helping you out there, eh?
How ironic, when Chabad was stuffing their tayreh down everone's throat nobody want it. Now everyone is literally thirsty for it, Chabad is nowhere to give it.
ReplyDelete-Yank
Is Mugen Ovus even allowed in CH these days? There is an element of pshat that is not found in the rest of the 7 doros, although the Rebbe did try to imitate it with his learning of Rashi.
ReplyDeleteis mugen uvos and mugen ovus the same person?
ReplyDeleteIF I may,I'd like to make a small historical comment.
ReplyDeleteThe Zemach Zedek had 7 sons iirc.The oldest was the R'Yehuda Leib later of Kopust the youngest was R'Shmuel of Lubavitch.The MaharY"L died shortly after his father the Z.Zedek so was rebbe for only a short time.His son R'Schneur Zalman, who wrote Mugen Uvos took over from him.
It's interesting to note that The Mugen Uvos was a couple of years older than his uncle R'Shmuel of Lubavitch!
After the Mugen Uvos was nifter without a yoiresh his brothers R'Shmaryohu Noiach of Bobroisk and R'Sholom Ber of Retsisa took over.
Anyway,I always have the "what if" bug about the Chaba'd dynasty.
What if Kopust had survived and been the larger Chabad faction?
In my opinion we would be enriched intellectually.Kopust was the more learned-less-fanatic Chabad.In fact many of the big Chabad rabbonim were from the Kopust line.
Unfortunately, the more fanatical and less intellectual win.That's why we have crazy hafgunes in Yerusholayim with fires and garbabage, thats why Lubavitch won Kopust and that's why in my opinion the Meshichists will win.Ultimately the "normal" Lubavitch that Tzig prides himself as bein a part of, will not breakaway but either accept Meshichist ideology or be thrown out of Lubavitch.Science fiction?No! It's happening as we speak in Crown Heights!
"What if Kopust had survived and been the larger Chabad faction?"
ReplyDeleteKapust in it's prime was bigger than the official lineage line.
According to many gedolim and broishom Reb Yosher Ber Soloveichik, the Rebbe was not as big a masmid as Chabad would have you believe.
ReplyDeleteLooking through sichos, one finds very little 'iyun' and at best a brief gloss of rishoinim.
Who has ever heard stories of the Rebbe coming over at 2 in the morning to discuss a difficult Reb Akiva Eiger like was the case with the Satmar Rebbe and Klausenburger Rebbe.
Chabad post war has done an unbelievable job in keeping toras hachasidus alive, but by no means are the top learners of chassidus exclusively chabad.
Reb Tzig, when was the last time you spent time learning Reb Motel Zilber's torahs ?
The practical difference is that R' Zilber shapes his yingerleit.
Most young chabadskers today spend hours every week learning chassidus for a period of years, then end up modern orthodox.
Either Chabad does not teach well, or the chassidus does nothing for them bpoel, other than keeping them shomer torah umitzvos and keep learning more chassidus....
It's been a long time since so much stupidity, ignorance and just plain lies went on here unchecked. I guess it was Sunday, and people were out doing better things
ReplyDelete1) If Kopust would've survived Chabad would've died. Period, end of story. Can't argue with the facts, can you. Lubavitch survived because of its Rabbeyim.
2) The Kopuster was SHLOMO Zalman, not Schneur Zalman. I guess since you're the big expert here on Kopust and what should've been you didn't know that. I guess you never got as far as the Shaar Blatt of Mogen Avos...
3) I know some of the Zilberisten, I don't see them being any different than any other group, except they think that they discovered G-d and Chassidus....
4) Who should the Rebbe have "come over to," ya Ahabal?
Just take a look at Reb Mottel Zilber seforim, he talks Kabala in them which non his guys have the slightest idea what he is talking about, I spoke to 4 of his big Mekablim,,
ReplyDeleteHis Tanya shiurin have no relationship to the AR, he could say the same shiur on the Kuntriesim of the Breslever Shick, since his talks are sticked on with carpenters glue on Tanya,otherwise it will not hold,Other stuff of his I dont know what he talks about, on Likutei Maran ask some other guys as Mermelstien or Anshin, that there understanding we wil leave for a different day,the bottom line the world learns chabad from the Rebbes talmidim starting by reb Yoel,to reb Liebel Altien reb Mielech Zwiebel Reb Itche Oifen, reb Zalmen Goffin Reb Mendel Vechter etc... also their work on chassidus is the hottest chassidic work by anyone that has little eidelkiet in chassidus,non of them walk on the gutter with a twisted back as RMZ but chassidus they understand Vehalikim Yireh Lelevoiv.
If we are already by the subject of RMZ, that personaly is a probably a oved hashem, but how can he have dimyoines that the old Stuchiner was the tzadik hador mamash the Baal Shem,
Tzig is right, since no one could be masig his greatness, there was no point his discussing torah with anyone.
ReplyDeleteHis pshat was the only way.....did he ever have a discussion of whether his pshat was right ?
Was there ever room to question his lomdus ?
Unfortunately, he taught his chassidim to by cynical and question everyone else and blindly follow him.......
In simple he could give it but couldn't take it. He hated it when others put him to the level of scrutiny which prevents the youth of chabad today seeing any merit in anyone but their Rebbe....
Don't tell me that is with everyone because every chassidus believes accross the board that the Rebbe still today scans all their thoughts and actions....other kreizen have their doubting thomas but if you question the Rebbe you see that he had a big ego and was capable of making a mistake.....
If Kapust was around Chabad would be around but not the coca-cola varierty of today.
Is it really Reb Zilber that does not understand chassidus and has followers going off the derech more than any other group...
Mogen Oves
ReplyDeletecan u the big intelectual explain for the audience a subject in chassides that you understood better in Mogen Oves then in the rebbe Reshabs mamorim? or u just repeating like a parrot.
נאך א משוגענער
ReplyDeleteI don't expect you to know this; after all you're a 22 year old leydiggeyer who spends his time blogging, but the Rebbe encouraged - and DEMANDED questions on his Sichos. If the obvious question was not asked he would SCREAM about it, why wasn't it asked?!!!
Very cute of you to compare Zilber's klan to Lubavitch, that makes as much sense as comparing the Sahara to Antartica. But I guess that would make sense in your book...
Let me ask you,
ReplyDeleteGranted Chabad has big kep....but didn't the Rebbe Rashab say you need nigle too.
Where are the chabad gedolim in nigle ?
Ger also say they have the best lomdei chassidus because they have the biggest experts in Sfas Emes. It depends on what you consider the measuring stick....
ReplyDeleteNo other group spends all day learning chassidus to the exclusion of lishmor vlaasos...
Other than to the Rebbe, what bitul did any of the chabasker lomdim listed above, one baal gayve after another...they loved the koved.
In English....intellectual snobs....
Mogen Oves,
ReplyDeleteWhom would you consider the fanatics of Lubavich vs the Kapuster inteligensia? I understand the outside world always likes the smooth Rov as for instance Rav Tzirelsohn vs a oived as reb Nissen or reb Itche der masmid Reb Chaim Shoul, that the aish kodesh of the AR didnt diminish one iota in their heart and soul,obviously the anti chabadniks like better the chabad boys who left to litvisher yeshivahs and kept their chabad Heritage thru a sidur Arizal as the great other side of the Havlin family,but the Ar liked better a bochur of Tomchie Temimim that was davening and learning hours of chassidus.and then kept the fire of yiddishkiet in the belly of the beast in Russia.Whoever want to see the truth as rav Telushkin and rav Zevin saw it in action in Russia had no problem to be chassidim of the lubacicher rebiem, just a imbicel like you shelo shono miyomov has a hollow ego with Kapust.
Anon,
ReplyDeleteThe Satmars in 1 of their pamphlets write this week that reb Yakov Kameniczky answered the Satmar rovs shailo how come nobody rebutted his sefer, he answered him the Rebbe calls all this people that differ with him Apikorsim so how can you start to argue bichlal.
so tell me who is open for business the Rebbe or the SR?
Anon,
ReplyDeleteYou realy believe that chabadsker that can walk for Yom Tov Talucha in rain or snow and being laughed and spit by Misnagdim mibayis umibechutz,or stand on a street corner begging a jew to put on tefilin, a snob. I look at their avodas hakodesh as the highest form of Venafshi Keofer Lakol Tiya in our world of deep cynycisim. No bobover or belzer ever had a Nisoyen in his life, their biggest nisoyen in life was, to decide by vote for which Tzadik Hador they belong, meaning which Mikva Yid should clean the towel in mikva.. 45th or 48th.
Can someone show me in sifrei chassidus the secret to supporting more than 10 children, while davening baarichus and doing chessed, while working on a salary.
ReplyDeleteO.k. every kreis has a wunderkind that makes it in business.
Without cheating the government and everyone else, how are we supposed to keep up with tuition ?
Can anyone prove their rebbe was the greatest by providing an answer to the question....
Anon
ReplyDelete"Is it really Reb Zilber that does not understand chassidus and has followers going off the derech more than any other group"
does reb Motel have any mosad of some sort, or does he preach to some 40 50 guys that are ready to go in himmel with him,You are a simple ferd.
Anon
ReplyDeletewhat type of medication did you overdose..
TZIG,
ReplyDeleteDid you think that mocking R'Zilber* "past" for someone like yourself who considers himself a "chosid" dehaynu someone that is careful to go "lifnim meshuras hadin"?
A simple Jew who never ever had the merit of learning Tanya knows that mocking a talmid chochom and an ehrlicheh yid is a no no.
Am I to understand that defending Lubavitch allows for this type of behavior?
Seems to be thematic to the blog
*Additionally, R'Zilber appears to be a yid who learns and teaches Tanya and other chasidishe seforim and has done you no avla.How are you comfortable saying mocking things about him hiding behind the faceade of an anonymous blog? Kovod Lubavitch ein kahn.Veaderaba.Veda"l
r m wolfson has many drashot that in the time of the ARIZAL would be hidishim.
ReplyDeleter m zilber has a gabie that sits in the HABAD library all day. In the afternoon come chassidish bachurim to read the magizines.(in jerusalem). K CHABAD, OLAM HASIDUT etc...this gabay hid them away under his coat. A bachur found them and started to take them. this gabay looked ready to punch him. this i saw .they told me who he was .it doesn't make his rebbi look good.
ReplyDeleteNobody mocked RMZ overhere,
ReplyDeleteI like the way the Rebbes kovud and khal adas chasidie chabad is a mitzva to blast ,but RMZ is untouchable.
In the list of HABAD teachers you left out the holy brothers RSDB VOLPE & rmm volpe. hachamim,tsidikim ,& GESHMACH. Once i went to hear r volpe but R YY Ofen spoke instead... Oye...
ReplyDeleteR zilber spoke in english once in jerusalem in an apt. It was very hot. He came an hour late and proceded to give a long intro that he really can't speak english. But he spoke well.
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you listen to RMW Tanya shiurim (They are available on kolhashiurim.com) first before laughing them off?
ReplyDeleteRav Zilber, cant speak english because he is a alter chosid Fun Dem Alten Chider,just by accident he learned in Torah vodaas where the language was English.
ReplyDelete"nobody mocked R'Zilber"
ReplyDeleteAnon 9:11,
What crack are you on?
Yuck.
I want to protest bizayon talmid chochom.
Enough.
the epitome of katnus hadaas is when someone screams my super-intellectual way is the only correct way. Chabad always laughed a the paylishe, but who's laughing now?
ReplyDeleteYeshoua,
ReplyDeleteits ad kdie hakoah, so you did your share
can anyone get back to the basic question of what bothered tzigele about satmar being written about in all papers?????
ReplyDeleteto Anon
ReplyDeleteFriday, August 14, 2009 2:46:00 PM
D'var H' asher haya el Yoel, l'shmi ul'zichri. 2 meanings to the name Divrei Yoel
Everything he said is d'var H' asher haya el Yoel, *including* Vayoel Moshe.
What bothered tzigele, the was not enough coverage on Gimmel, plain and simple. And to the moron counting the satmar papers to the list of papers that had "coverage", get a life, if I counted every chabad organ that covered the rebbe on gimmel...
ReplyDeletejust a question, when should the cover the SR on someone else yartzeit?
Besides the Rebbe of course, can you name 3 people that did more for yiddishkeit in post-war america than the SR?
did anyone see the write-up about the FRs visit to EY in the new english bisha tovah? Did anyone notice what I noticed?
DO these chabad organs claim to Imophangik (independent))on their masthead ?
ReplyDeletedid anyone see the write-up about the FRs visit to EY in the new english bisha tovah? Did anyone notice what I noticed?
ReplyDeleteMonday, August 17, 2009 3:21:00 PM
he visited kook 3 times but rycz only once
O vey,
ReplyDeleteRibono shel olum,
I didn't see it, but its my assumption that he visit him not to talk Emuna Vedious but to the talk the business of Russian Jewry that was on top of his agenda,and he believed that he had influence in certain circles,
Calm down
Less than 10 years after the founding of Israel, the ovens of Auschwitz were still hot The greyser rav called his troops out to demonstartae against the State Of Israel. A place where hundreds of thousands of Jews found a place of refugee. But he had to publically demonstartae agianst Israel.Es hot em fadrosen..
ReplyDeleteLess than 5 years from its creation the Greyser kol yachol tried to hound Reb Itche Mayer Lewin out of Williamsburg so much for any real respect for other rebbes.
Less than 10 years after the end of the Churban der Zaddik hador told the true zaddik hador of Belz "als dos (meaning Israel) muz chorev veren!" Meyredike verter from a so called Chasidishe rebbe !!! The Belzer rav answered Chas veshalom!!!
I guess because they have lots of money and lots of children and even more chutzpah they get lots of kavod. As far as I am concerned its still in the words of the Lubavitcher Rebbe lo mehem (the zaddikim of the CRC) velo mayhomanum - their loyal followers !!
By the way Hamodiah gave kavod to the so called mayor of the Ir hanidaches a man who wrote a letter to our president calling for him to respond in a robust manner against any settlements in the west Bank. Of course he did this bershus his rebbe the new Zadika Dezadikaya - RAT . I ask a question are these people not mosrim worse than Mr. Drek They are trying to put a whole yishuv of 6 million Jews in danger !!! And Hamodia gives them kavod. Did that paper even note the Lubavitcher rebbe's yarzeit ?
Shneur,
ReplyDeleteUnfortunatly you pain is not felt by the new genaration the apathy towards Keneses Yisroel is beyond belief,It started with the dreadfull shita that everybody tought will dwindle rapidly since its hepech hatorah and hepech hoanishus. But the selfishness of the nu genaration of ani veafsi has brought them closer to the nihilisim philosophy. It so obvious today that all their deeds is power and money driven, look at the last episode in Toledo Spain on The grave desecration,Or Yemen its now transparent to eveyone that its all a smokescreen for their power today and all the years, and they had the gall to argue that rebiem like the LR or the old SKWERER are michitz lemachne since he didnt participate in their kanois festival masquraded under all kinds of issues,to get the masses to come.
just for the record the town of KJ became today a offical hungarian town with 3 jewish cemeteries
ReplyDeleteOrthoox
Status Quo
Neolog
but the difference is, that now its all hiemish,
az me lebt derlebt men
Schneur,you are so right,but it should realy not come as a suprise,
ReplyDeletebecause this man epitomized 'sinas chinom'machlokes'and fellow jew hatred'from the time he was a young man.and to realy grasp what reb yoilish was all about,listen to this story that they themselves are not ashamed to bring in one of their own 'maiseh bichlech'
It was during his interment in Bergen Belzen,as you know kastners train was supposed to go sraight to switzerland,but for some reason
the negotiations with the nazi's broke down and they diverted the train to bergen belzen,and the whole transport was put on ice,and they were held there for a couple of months,as you can imagine during those few months,the fear and anxiety,as they were not sure if they will end up in auschwiz or freedom,and every day there was all kinds of rumors,one day it was auschwitz and the next day it was to freedom.on one particular day there was a very strong rumor that the negotiations with the nazis was completely broken off,and they are being sent to auschwitz,the rebbe at that time told his followers to fast that day,and also told one of the rabbonim who was there with him [he resided after the war in williamsburg]that there is a segullah to be saved in a EIS TZARAH,one should take upon himself with a NEDER a good deed to do for the rest of his life,and the ROV asked the rebbe,and what was your KABALLAH?
what did you take upon yourself,and here is the unbelievable nausiating answer,
'i was MEKABEL on myself that if g-d will help me and save my life,i will for the rest of my life and with all my strength and without compromise FIGHT THE AGUDAS YISROEL.
Gevald yiden'do you grasp this EKELHAFTIGE story?it is 1944 the ovens in auschwitz are working 24 hours a day 18,000 of our brothers and sisters are gassed and burned day in and day out,and hitler did not care if they were orthodox or reform or zionist or mizrachi or agudah,they all went to the ovens,
and at a time like this,what does the satmarer rebbe take upon himself to merit being saved from auschwitz,TO FIGHT THE AGUDAH FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE'
this story illustrates 100% who and what the man was all about.
CHAIM
Browser
ReplyDeleteI know satmar well and all its baba meisios, but where did you read this story?
Was it in one of their weekly rags?
schneur the rebbe never said lo mayhem vlo mayhamonom
ReplyDeletezev chaim
ReplyDeletehe did say by the vechter parsha
anon, is there any mareh makom to that? i would really like to know
ReplyDeleteAre the sifrie Hisvadous of that era on line?
ReplyDeleteAnon
ReplyDeleteRegarding the daas yochid of the baal Vyoel Moshe,
Just saw this shabos the stiepler writes that Hagoan Hachosid baal Chazon Ish held we have to participate in the Isreali electoral system, so its not some Lorencz (as u people like to label as a liar)story, its a fact by a brother in law that lived in the same house.
Regarding the daas yochid of the Baal Vyoel Moshe
ReplyDeleteIn a sefer Chanoch Lenaar by Yavrov the Mashbak, that reb Chaim Kanievsky told him, the Chazon Ish let him learn with his sister the sugya of Tagrei Lud a mega sugya in shas.Plus alot of stuff regarding learning with girls,
another chapter in Veyoel Moshe that klal yisroel were not ready to buy from him.Obviously harfenes has other sources that contradict the nephew as it goes with all Satmar stuff, they know better Belz then Belz, Chasam sofer better then the Pressburger rov and Erlauer rov, Sanz better then Klausenburger Rov etc..
After the Entebbe rescue mission where hundreds of Jewish lives were rescued in a miraculous manner , the CRC and its spokesman Rabbi R of Voidislov blasted the rescue and Israel. the Lubavitcher rebbe became livid in a farbrengung and called out lo mehem velo mehamonam more than once its all on tape ! A boycott of all CRC products was placed in effect and carmel wine was used rather than the Haymische brands.
ReplyDeleteI know that the hymishe Yidden in BP do't want to believe it , but the rebbe was not scared of Reb Yoel, his troops , his unterfartzer and the rest of the thugs.
I am sorry to say it but the Rebbe did not gat antzigt by the heiliker shita or the VaYoel Moshe book or its author or his followers.
The Rebbe did care about a makom miklat called Israel and the lives of hundreds of Jews held captive by idi Amin .
I thought the boycott was in response to the vechter parsha
ReplyDeleteanyways thanx for responding and where can i get the tape you are talking about
I feel that things I've read hear are at least avak lashon hara. Perhaps this blog is not letoeles. Maybe a static page would fulfill the goal of defending Chabad. Or at least a blog with no comments, with the writer being extremely careful to only defend.
ReplyDeleteToo bad the article is unreadable...
ReplyDelete