It's tough running a blog, believe me. You need to come up with ideas that excite both you and the readers. And you need to attract readers that will comment intelligently. You can vouch for me that the latter part doesn't come easy. In my case, where we've been doing this for almost 5 years - it'll be 5 years in May, look it up - it's especially difficult since it ultimately comes at the expense of family time, work time and most of all, learning Torah time. That's right, I learn Torah too, and not just Likutei Sichos. AAMOF, I wish I could learn more LS. So in a week before Purim, during tax season, you'll have to excuse me if I lose cheyshek. And after weeks and months and years of bickering with many of you here you'll have to excuse me if I lose the will to keep on updating the blog. But call it addiction, or call it the fact that I feel like I give people something to look forward to a few times a week, but I go on, and even now I feel like I can't just give it up. Not just yet, anyway. It may not be very far off in the future, but the time has not come yet. Not because I haven't "fulfilled the objective of the blog," just because it doesn't feel right yet.
On that note - the note of accepting derochim that may be different than standard Bukovina and Marmuresh - let's review what we have posted above. We have the zeide of the holy Reb Pinchos'l Koritzer going to meshumodim - I assume they were shonoh U'peirush'nikkes, not third generation unaffiliated Jews - and begged them to say Shema, and promising them his share in Olam HaBoh just so they should say it. He was a pretty pushy "Kiruv professional" it seems, telling them "why do you care to say it, you've done כל עבירות שבעולם already, say Shema, even if you don't mean it. That eventually helped many of them to return to the path of Torah. Now obviously not all tzaddikim had that shittah, but please don't knock it when you see it, especially when we're dealing with mostly unaffiliated Jews that don't even have religious great grandparents anymore. Be tolerant if you want tolerance in return, and that goes for all of us. Enjoy some photos of the Rebbe, zy"a, on various Purims, courtesy of The Avner Institute.
Purim, 5713
Purim, 5717
A moment on Purim, 5724.
Geoynes.
ReplyDeleteSo Kiruv was not invented by Chasidim, since his grandfather was 2 generations before the Besht
ReplyDeleteBtw, can anyone clarify if he was a Rov etc.. is their available a good biography of the Koritzer? I remember seeing years ago from Prof Heschel but I lost it
I looked in Midrash Pinchas Ois 17 and I didn"t find it
ReplyDelete"You need to come up with ideas that excite both you and the readers. And you need to attract readers that will comment intelligently. You can vouch for me that the latter part doesn't come easy. "
ReplyDelete------------------
From the current post.
There is something pathological about a blogger attacking his readership and commenters.
I can vouch for the fact that many of the posters don't give you an easy time allowing you to promote your *hate* (see your pathetic attempt for example to claim that "thousands of bitter,miserable and downtrodden people" live in Lakewood a place you've never been to {while in "kahn tzivo" at least two people chose to throw themselves under a subway train in recent years, plus many "other" ways veda"l})or your farcical claim that "you see everything" but choose to *only* dwell on other groups "chesroines", while the reality is that the one upmanship of Lubavitch in the "chesroines" department is mind boggling.So yes you were forced by intelligent posters to acknowledge what R'Menahe Klein printed about Meshichisten, and the horrible debacle in Melbourne and other places with Chabad losing their connection to authentic Yiddishkait.
Yet, you blame your commenters.In true Pravda/Lubavitch fashion!
Do you want to blog and have everyone agree with you?
ReplyDeleteVolvie
ReplyDeleteMy complain on Tzvi is that he is not objective enough, since he didn't blog about the sefardic yeshivahs burning of the Yated Namen instead of Haaman . it illustrates how far Maran Avi Ezri religious of hate has made his followers in to a fringe part of Yiddishkiet.Thay are the New Tzorerie Hayheudim because Reb Ovadia Yossef that has a little more knowledge in Shas Uposkim then all Roshei Yeshivahs, is not asking by Nati Grossman and his partners in crime ,what size pants he has to wear for shabbos.
הרבי היה הרב הראשון, שידע לנצל את המדיה המשודרת על מנת לקדם את רעיונותיו, וזיהה את הכוח העצום הטמון בתקשורת ולרתום אותה לקידום העניינים הנראים חשובים בעיניו. הוא לא נרתע ממתן "היתר" לכלי המזוהה עם שימושים, שאינם עולים בקנה אחד עם דרכה של תורה. כמו כן לא חשש מחידוש הלכתי שאין לו תקדים אצל רבותיו.
ReplyDeleteAnon 4:37
ReplyDeleteI love your spelling and grammar!
Additionally,I love how what you say has nothing to do with my post.
L'chaim!
Anon
ReplyDeleteThe Rebbe tried very much that his Chidushim in halacha should be based on earlier sources as Shulchan Orech of the Alte Rebbe or Shulchan Orech stam, he respected every simple Hungarian Teshuva Sefer, vs. all Yotzei Lita of latter years that have no allegiance for the Shulchan Oruch, as Reb Moshe , Reb Aron and the Brisker Family. Which is no problem with me, since they have different Kabolas in Horoha. But thats for sure that the Rebbe with his humility never took upon himself the title Posek, and if he did pasken
it was always based on the Shulchan Oruch.
Dear Anon
ReplyDeleteYou can not claim that the Rebbe pioneered using Media for fighting assimilation and bringing the true Dvar Hashem to the masses, it started already by Reb Shimon Sofer and Reb Yehoshoa of Belz, 2 Manhigie Yisroel that are considered arch conservative, by printing a newspaper Machzikie Hadas with writers that can publicize in a professional manner the dvar hashem, and delivering news of a revolution in Mexico and the Parliament in England for the galicianer yiden.And so did the Gerer Rebbe in Poland.Lately I saw that the Natroni Group of Satmar wrote in their pamphlets that the Satmar Rov was working in the early 50's for funds to publicize on the radio his anti Zionistic views with no success. And all his protests were televised by the media and must of the speakers as the Rabbi Rottenberg and Rabbi Weberman gave their speeches in English for the Media. Please get your facts together before you let your pen loose.
Anon 7:31
ReplyDeleteWhat basis did the psak about crossing the dateline during sefira and keeping shevuos a day late or early depending on where they came from? Everyone else thinks it's pretty shaky
Anon,
ReplyDeleteThe dateline issue is a issue that was never brought up by poskim even much later then shulchan orech. again what are you talking about
"everyone" thinks it's shaky? I presume you haven't read the Rov's Torah on that inyan. As I recall, it is similar.
ReplyDeleteom kav hatairich i wrote in a previous blog and kelo hoyo an nw the rehashing it agin.
ReplyDeleteon the rebbe's shite on kav hataarich viz a vis shvues and sfiras hooimer nitey gavriel quotes other's also but devotes a whole chapter on the rebbe's shita which he clearly holds as ikker. r avrohom blumenkrantz o"h in his peisach digests would quote the rebbe's shita all the years on sfire and shvues as the only logical. only in his last years he was pressured to include other shites also.
Where is the ravs opimion written?
ReplyDelete""everyone" thinks it's shaky? I presume you haven't read the Rov's Torah on that inyan. As I recall, it is similar."
ReplyDeleteIsaac,
Your endorsement is somewhat lukewarm ."Interestingly" enough you are not sure and you haven't provided chapter and verse.
There is nobody besides Lubavitch that keep Shavuos based on their own count, therefore your claim that Rabbi Soloveichik "agreed" is somewhat farfetched.{I would also think that a ruling only followed by ones own chasidim dispels the notion of "Nosi Hador"}
You can always disabuse us of that notion by actually providing a source.
in the picture you see the rebbe trying to get the alte chasidim in to the spirit
ReplyDeleterabbi shochet from LA has written at length on the issue, HT perhaps you can post his article?
ReplyDeleteSimcha
ReplyDeleteHow many charadie Jews live in Australia outside of chabad?
"How many charadie Jews live in Australia outside of chabad?"
ReplyDeleteIsaac Balbin will hopefully give us a better answer.
From the little I know:There is a Hungarian/Chasidic community called Adass Yisroel with about 200 families.Besides for that there is a Lakewood Kolel community, a Gerer shtibel a Belzer one too if I"m not mistaken and a number of other black hat non Chabad shuls.
From what I understand, if you consider Chabad chareidi, there approximately and equal amount of Lubavitch and other black hatters and then the larger Mizrach/Modern Orthodox kehillas.So Melbourne has quite a large shomrei shabbos community out of a total of 50 000 Jews.
Additionally many frum Jews travel to Australia during sefira for whatever reason.
The Lubavitcher is from what I know a daas yochid in this issue
In terms of outreach, a serious question is not if the non religious Jews use could benefit from it (and even that is not so clear, as in 2010 a good numbe rof the Non Orthodox Jews in the US are no longer Jews by Halachic standrads, or are married to non Jewish partners and my own experience with Chabad houses indicates that at least 20% of parties involved in Chabad classes etc are in those categories and as Rabbi Shlomo Riskin stated publically "I have never stopped an intermarriage" al achas kama vekama when such a marriage is already extant for years.)) ) rather the issue is the affect these activities have on the outreach people themselves and their families.
ReplyDeleteThe Rebbe for all his genius, understood that the task at hand was to bring back millions of alienated Jews to Judaism (and at that time 1951- to about 1990 it meant to Tore and Mitzvoth), but he clearly did not grasp that it was a 2 way street , the more you brought such Jews to CH to the yeshivas and into the homes and living rooms of Anash they also influenced Anash in terms of culture lifestyles , values, ideas etc.(Here I must note that Chabad brought American culture via Pegishos with college students and the like)into their homes with great glee while people like the Skverer Rebbe and the Satmarer rav built physical and spiritual barriers against just such influences) And this happened in Chabad slowly but surely , with Chabad losing its special European flavor, Yiddish, clothing ,etc. to and adopting a great deal of the low culture of the US and Israel. As long as the alienated Jews were just a small group in CH and Chabad that influence was still perculating, but once a critical mass of BT's was acheived , I think it really hit Chabad.My little present day contact with Lubavitch communities seem to indicate that many young Lubavitch people themselves could use kiruv . So something went wrong . I will just conclude that perhaps the derech of the Galician Hungaian community of changing America via the birthing room in hospitals and by building communites was the right way to go. I know they too have issues , but they have succeded beyond the wildest dreams of anyone.As for kiruv perhaps the model of Belz is the way to go with commitment to outreach , but commitment to retention of community values, culture and standards as well. Lubavitch would have been more successful getting people into Judaism but reserving the staus of Chabad chasid for those commited to Orthodoxy beyond the hat or the cult of personality.
Shneur,
ReplyDeleteChanging America via birthing rooms has noting to do with the concept of Ki Lo Yidach Mimani Kol Nidach, the new Neshoma does not replace the Neshoma that gets assimilated,plus the Rebbe was campaigning against family planing and for large families,
after seeing the Utube video of New Square of 40 Rebellious guys that were born and raised in the holy walls of New Square, I am noting of the pedophiles that are still cloaked with the gartel, I wouldn't be so sure that Reb YY Twerskies method has worked,I know Skwer very well their are alot of problems that are thrown under the boss, to make the place look squeaky clean. The Skwerer Rebbe has no techniques how to handle that situation he ran away to his 4 Million dollar Nyack house like a weasel for all the nights that the story was brewing.
Schneur,
ReplyDeleteObviously the Rebbe was ready to lose the great eastern European fargrebte geshmak for his views, he had his principle and was not ready to compromise.So he wouldn't see it as losing out to these Rebbes, He didn't need more yiddish or certain black coats from G&G , a green Jacket for a working guy would do it for him, these are luxuries that he would maybe like, but not for the price of deserting Keneseth Yisroel after the Holocaust, obviously its a war and you lose people.
I am not getting this, when the Rebbe has something original to say as the Chazon Ish or Reb moshe , with the big bulk of their unique pesokim that most of the world doesn't pasken like them, then its again a problem that he is a daas yochid. If it would have been the opposite then he would be shallow and run of the mill, seems like chabad has the same fate as the Jew with the antisemite you never win
ReplyDeleteAnon 206:pm
ReplyDeleteNobody claimed Nosi Hador status for R'Moshe or the Chazon Ish, however even without that status their pesokim are widely followed.The Rebbe, who got the title from his chasidim had no followers for his psokim besides his own chasidim
Tzig you write: obviously not all tzaddikim had that shittah, but please don't knock it when you see it, especially when we're dealing with mostly unaffiliated Jews that don't even have religious great grandparents anymore. Be tolerant if you want tolerance in return, and that goes for all of us."
ReplyDeleteThis particular source is no source to support chabad's way in our times.
As the link below shows that at least from Chasidus (and there is no greater authority on what the Besht POV was, than this source of his most senior talmid. The Magid of Polonoe!) POV doing this is not recommended for the average person.
Yes if you are a pure Tzadik then you can engage in that behavior, but stam people should not do kiruv. At least that is the POV of the Besht.
The Lub Rebbe can take a different view and ask his Shelichim to do anything, but it is reasonable to argue that his was not the original intent of the Besht
http://bit.ly/cJyQfk
Yosef 718
nobody claimed nosi hador for them, but the title Posek Hador is forced on klal yisroel, look parashas eiruv in the USA
ReplyDeleteYosef
ReplyDeleteIf every Lubavicher Shaliach would buy himself a flowered Bekiche and proclaim himself as Admoir, as quick as the 3 lelover rebbe, or the multi Spinker Rebbes, then he would be the legitimate Tzadik of the chassideshe seforim?
You would not even dare to question their motives of putting the eye of the fish in the bekiche pocket Friday night. For arguments sake we will consider all the shluchim as tzadikim and rebbes.
Annonymous "eastern European fargrebte geshmak," interesting ,so the Hippie culture of drugs and free sex of the US and the secular Israeli culture and the general American culture as depicted by Phillip Roth (not to speak of the mehudardike culture of Tzarfas)are not fargrebt and are better substitutes for a "fargrebte east European Culture" So where is your mind when you think of 6 milion kedoshim , just the need to replace them like a good and efficient engineer...By the way its not East European culture the Rebbe sacrificed that is kept alive and well Thank you very much, in many places in the US and Israel without the benefit of Lubavitch, its something much more important he sacrificed...
ReplyDeleteYoseh
ReplyDelete"The Lub Rebbe can take a different view and ask his Shelichim to do anything
I think the word Lub Rebbe, is Mechane Shem and you obviously need an apology from the Rebbe which is your problem and not mines,
The Rebbe has enough the words of Tanya perek 32 Lemoshchoin Beavoses Ahavah,plus the pesak in hilchois talmud torah on Zorek Even ... the interpretations of the other Seforim you and your Rebbes don"t understand anyways
I have no Idea what your avalanche words mean, you are losing your mind
ReplyDeleteIt seems that the young boys from various Lubavitcher yeshivas have been released early for Purim and are now "helping" in the war on Snags.
ReplyDeleteBoys, could you at least write one English sentence that makes sense?
If you think that the Lelover Rebbes can go out and do kiruv fine but neither they nor us can assume that for them. So maybe that is the reason they don't think its advisable to do a heart to heart talk with a half dressed lady explaining the great mitzva of nerois shabbos.
ReplyDeleteI am nothing under the foot of the great and holy tzadik the LUBAVITCH'ER Rebbe n"e, and my Hungarian mom [ooops mother] thought me some derech eretz too. He can defend himself and he did! He does not require some of the litznus scribbled here for his defense.
That does not and should not prevent me or anybody else to explain and defend the prevalent thought of most gedolei yisroel over all generations in considering kiruv work as most dangerous for regular people.
For most Charedim the effect of the entire work of kiruv on Chabad in general is self evident. One could argue that it was worth it and I am sure this was/is the view of the Lub[oops avitcher] Rebbe.
All I'm saying that there are valid Chasidic sources that can not be shoved away with litzanus that clearly show that kiruv is not for the average guy.
The Tanya clearly writes that the sefer is only for those who knew him and heard him.
Yosef 718
Yosef 718
ReplyDelete"
"The Tanya clearly writes that the sefer is only for those who knew him and heard him."
You should have the decency to be a Oimer Duver Beshem Omroi, the Satmar rov in the Vayoel Moshe used this cynical argument already, you probably saw it there,
its like saying the Sefer Hachinuch is not for Klal Yisroel since he wrote it for his son,
its a sefer that was quoted by the Yismach Moshe and Yetev Lev probably 50 to 60 times with recommendations to learn it, and they were not chabadnikim from White russia,
the Tanya itself is quoted as pesak by poskim as Reb Meir arik and the Marshag etc..Reb Meir arik is even quoting perek 32(lev in chabad lingo) in his tal torah (a strictly Nigleh Sefer),
Dave
ReplyDeleteIts part of Mechiyas Amolek Asher Bekirbecho
Tzig, you sound overworked. Why don't you hire some young thing back from sem who needs a job for a month till she gets engaged?
ReplyDeleteTurbotax is an easy program, and all you'll have to do is review the diagnostics when she is done with the return.
In the time that this frees up, I recommend you watch Office Space. A classic.
Keep posting stuff like this i really like it
ReplyDeletehttp://matzav.com/video-photos-purim-5770-in-beth-medrash-govoha-2
ReplyDeleteLakewood turns chasidish. Do you think they danced like this in Kletzk
Don't give up! Chazak VeAmatz! Lephum tza'arah agra!
ReplyDeleteDon't let your perfectionism get the better of you. Your natural abilities and the thoughts you express are highly readable. A blog is not meant to be a research library or road show. It is basically a public DIARY that you are willing to share with others and so far it seems that many people enjoy reading what's bothering you and what's on your mind because you are able to identify the important issues, describe and explain them and place them before the world for more discussion if that's what they want to do.
No doubt, even if you'd write five paragraphs of what went through your mind every other day, people would read, and enjoy, your blog even more. In any case you have maybe become a little too pedantic and even specialized over the years. You express what's on the mind of the frum "everyman" and you do it well!
Don't run from your own spreading fame. I could even see you becoming a guest speaker one of these days. You are organized and a pleasure to read, and most important you have a following.
A freilichen Shushan Purim!
Wonder when you"ll post next,after all Lubavitcher are very machmir with the inyen of shikkres.
ReplyDeleteFor what it's worth,I enjoy Chaim Berlin Tragedies posts, they are unique and surreal.Unfortunately,I totally disagree with him about your posts mind expressing the frum "everyman".Lots of jealousy,lots of the viewpoint of a wannabee Lubavitcher who is out of the Hungarian "everyman" and not able to become the Lubavitch "everyman".An attempt at proving credentials to the new alliance.
Shamluk
ReplyDeleteif you want to knock Lubavich at least know whats happening their, most of Lubavichers are Purim on the go, to provide real simcha and Ziku Mitzvas hayom, and not much drinking is done, you look like the KKK of Montana that never saw a jew in their life, then a guy shows up in the Holocaust Museum with a gun.