by Hirshel Tzig
I was told that in order to maintain a sense of "credibility" that I need to comment on the CH Beis Din Psak that was issued by Mechon LeHoro'oh yesterday. You know, it's times like these that I really start to think that maybe I'm talking to a bunch of idiots, if you'll excuse my French. I have stated this many times and I have stayed true to my policy of really not discussing stam current event politics. Not from any kreiz. Which is what so many of you can't stand about me and this blog. If I'd be busy knocking other kreizen all day and highlighting all the infighting that goes on there, and I wouldn't write about Lubavitcher happenings, then you'd have a real case about me. But I don't, and you can't stand that. Then there's the general of me not caring. I could care less about which slate runs the CH community council or the Vaad Hakashrus. I may have maybe once cared about who is THE Rov in Crown Heights, but even that interest has long since passed. I do think that the fact that they went to D"T and may even listen to the psak is commendable in this day and age, as sad as that may sound, but other than that what is there to write?!
So please. If you feel like you need to deflect critique from your group, go right ahead and send in the nasty comments. If they're quasi-intelligent and to the point I may even let them through. But don't expect me to write about the silly non-exciting politics.
Peace.
So you do not want to talk about the current state of politics in Chabad and you do not want to talk about the current state of ruchniyus in Chabad internally or externally viewed. Nor the gashmiyus in Chabad either.
ReplyDeleteSo what aspect of Chabad is your focus ? None of Schneur's projects?
Schneur's projects sound like fun, but I would say that many of them are they are preceived by a man associated with Chabad but removed from it, as was the case with him. Meaning a strong Chabad background as far as ancestors but not himself. (I mean no disrespect to Reb Schneur.) I would take that up. I guess in your eyes - and maybe even his! - that would de-legitimize Chabad for the last 90 years, right? While we're at it why not discuss the Mitteler Rebbe and Reb Aron Shtrashelyer too? Was that legitimate or did they just smile then too?
ReplyDeleteHirshel,
ReplyDeleteI know that the anti Chabad guys will find bad in everything that breathes chabad since they have irrational hate that is hard to heal, but the Din Torah is a kidush hashem not only for CH but for hashem vetorosai
Chevra,
ReplyDeleteLubavitch discussions are verboten on the blog because when you dig a wee bit deeper you hit problems.
Lubavitch is one big oylem hadimyon and this whole Beis Din in CH din toreh is a joke, any of thousands of good serious yingerleit in Eretz Yisroel and Lakewood surpass this pirem bes din.Only in Chabad could it have any prominence.R'Itzel Raitport, loz dech oop from your "shtelleh" this is no place for a real talmed chochem
Yidle,
ReplyDeletewas the din torah a litmus test on the geonois of the Bies din? or solving a problem? Rav Ozdoba can produce anyday 4 volumes avi ezri if its needed to get a shtele ans prestige,Do you know any of these people?
It seems that Tzig has realized what yours truly did a few years ago.
ReplyDeleteI realized that Crown Heights is not the center of the world.What it is is unfortunately an inner city neighborhood with a mostly ghetto population.It's high crime and very unpleasant.Even if you live in one of the nicer blocks you still need to get to and from work, davening, schools ,shopping etc..
The frum people are a mixture of people who are trapped in their poverty and cannot leave their subsidised apartments, Government help etc, baaley teshuva with "issues", stam single bummy boys and girls who know that anything can go in CH ,AND an element of well to do, baalabatishe people who need the nebs as a buffer against the ghetto chevreh.
I moved out and haven't looked back, besides sibling simchas.
That's why Monseys Lubavitch community has grown so much.
I don't care whatsoever about the infighting or the besdin in CH,ICH HOB THEY ALLEH IN BOD.
"Rav Ozdoba can produce anyday 4 volumes avi ezri if its needed to get a shtele ans prestige,Do you know any of these people?"
ReplyDeleteAnonymous,
You asked ozdoba if he can produce anyday 4 volumes of avi ezri??
By you guys avi ezri is nothing so what are you trying to prove?
I can anyday produce zichroines fun labavitch rebb'n
שקוע בגשמיות ובחומר, במקום לימוד של הק''ו.
ReplyDeleteאת הדרך אשר יכלו בה, לא חפצנו, ועל צער תלמוד חכם ליצנו.
אין לנו להשען אלא על אבינו, רק הוא
lets takke hear about the strashiler!!
ReplyDeleteTOO FAR BACK!
ReplyDeleteLets hear who is defining chassidus Chabad for the next generation....
The new sound bite people who deleted the chassdic terminology from the 28 Nissan sicha...
The cartoons over at chabad.org
Heichal Menachem
Jakey and Simon
leaving out the Moshiach issue...
All these Lubavitchers who at least think one of the above will not be in the same chassidus after a generation of divergence...
Talking about choices of Rabbanim....
ReplyDeleteWhy was R Mendel Vechter stuck in Kiryat Malachi, rather than somewhere like Yerushalayim or Bnei Berak ??
Was it more important that Satmar would not have him than making him a mashpia in some Chabad community ?
Why didn't he just move to Crown Heights ?
The sad thing is that most of CH has long since moved on as well.
ReplyDeletethe machloikus as to who will run the shul etc. has lead to many new kehilos opening in CH.
770 is a tourist attraction that shluchim and out of town guests visit. most erliche BB have started their own minyonim and sub kehilos.
so now 'if' sholom brakes out ... they can run an empty kehilah!
I thought tzvei dinim was a Litvishe trick. How can you separate the reality of today's CH from the overall integrity of Chabad, the Rebbe, etc.
ReplyDeleteRead the CH blogs, "All that we should be doing is giving the Rebbe nachas"
Maybe the nicest thing one can say is " Chabad was once great, the Rebbe had the best of intentions, but CH was left unprepared, and we cleary see the consequences".
Or, it is time for Chabad'tzkers to secede from CH. If only the big givers had a sense of what was going on in CH, they would be repulsed.
if Wechter or G Zinner would have been quality to be Rabonim in their own right they would have been grabbed up in their local Kehilas, their odd behavior made them into rejects to be picked up by those who are non selective
ReplyDeleteAnon,
ReplyDelete"their odd behavior made them into rejects to be picked up by those who are non selective"
is this a fact? or assunption?
Anon
ReplyDelete"You asked ozdoba if he can produce anyday 4 volumes of avi ezri?? "
I don"t have to ask, he is a nice talmud Chochom big Masmidd and he wrote and printed alot of Torah.
"By you guys avi ezri is nothing so what are you trying to prove? "
who in the lithuanian universe will tell you different? that Maran was something unique? the yeshiva world is using the torah of the other Rosh, Reb Shmuel
With all due respect , so we are not going to discuss current affairs in CH or Lubavitch, we are not going to discuss Chabad history , so what is there left Iskafya, , Hishkashrus maybe the Rashab's hemshechim ,I guess the closest to Chabad is a discusion of Belz(agtr all the Rayaatz called Rav Ahron sear besari in at least one letter...) Its like the rav of a traditional shul who tried speaking on Shabbes, Tahara, kashrus etc but the president was unhappy , and siad don't speak about these things, so the rav frustrated remarked so what should I use as my theme , the president replied talk about Judaism ..
ReplyDeleteSchneour,
ReplyDeleteYou hit it on the button!
Liked your joke about the Traditional shul.
Basically the only thing left to discuss on this blog is the foibles of the Snags.
Been there, done that.
I don't claim I have my hand on the pulse of the present day Lubavitch in CH.
ReplyDeleteIn most if not all other Orthodox communities from left wing MO to Yeshivishe communities, chosing a rav(of a shul or kehillo) is a big deal. the same was true in East Europe .
The choice of a rav was an important one. That personality was the major influence on how a kehillo would develop. When Prague chose Shir Rappaport as its rav that was the end of Prague as a Tora center.When the Ind. Kehillo in FFM chose rabbi YY Horowitz it sent a message to the adherents of Torah Im Derech Eretz.
I find the laid backness here on that subject amazing . You mean to tell me that the subject of who will be a rav in CH is of no importance. Perhaps that says more about Lubavitch of 2010 than anything else !
I think electing a charasmatic person could really affect Lubavitch.
maybe readers should turn to chabadrevisited's blog... its pretty boring if u're into politics, but at least he addresses chabad history in a fairly serious way.
ReplyDeleteReb Hirshel Tzig
ReplyDeleteReb
Hirshel
do yo know the name of the Rosh Hashochtim in london or another names of shochtim in london who were Lubavitcher,
Kind regards
A. Londoner
a Londoner
ReplyDeleteI will ask the person who told me in the past. Is that OK with you?
Schneour,
ReplyDeleteThere is no possibility of electing a truly charismatic and normal rov in CH.The simple reason is the point you were trying to make "It could really effect Lubavitch" and that is the problem! If his stature is too great, there is the chashash of a new guy "usurping" the Rebbe.Both Meshichists and Anti's are against any new leader or competition, the few mevakshim who are really looking for leadership are very frustrated.I know that Rabbi Heller used to go the R'Hirsheleh Spinker in Williamsburg.
Anyone who knws a bit of Chabad and CH history knows that after R'Zalman Shimon Dworkin was niftar, Chabad took some very interesting turns.He was the last person of authority left from the old guard
Reb Hirshel
ReplyDeleteIt is ok with me and thanks
A. Londoner
Yonasan,
ReplyDeleteyou have no idea what you are talking about,
Reb Zalmen Shimon was liked by everyone but almost didn"t wield his power, the Rabonim today are using their power often, and its natural that it causes volcanoes to erupt.
Do you really believe that when a Rov is chosen in CH they are looking for the person that has the lowest charisma in town? what a idiotic statement
Shneur,
ReplyDeleteThe Rebbe clearly stated that the Beis Din is not to be called "Lubavitch" because it is NOT! It is for all toishvei hashchuna Lubavitch or otherwise, democraticlly elected(albeit at a time when there were more "veltishe" nevertheless there still are). That's why they lost many fans when they tried to mish zich in "world Lubavitch" issues etc. So, although, granted, choosing a rov is a big deal, still it's a CH issue, NOT lubavitch as a whole...
YT Sheini
Londoner,
ReplyDeleteRaskin, Katzenelenboigen et al....
What's your point?
YTS
To YTS
ReplyDeleteMy point is i want to know which lubavitcher shochtim Dayan abramski apointed
Kind regards
A.londoner
by the way Reb S.B Raskin & Reb M Katzenelenboigen came to london after dayan abramski left london