I have this friend who's shaken to the core every time we speak about the Chazon Ish. He thinks that the CI's koved is diminished by the fact that Lubavitch doesn't respect him like this man thinks they should. Of course he points to the drawing made by the CI that supposedly told an Israeli doctor how to conduct brain surgery as proof that he was the greatest of the great. Somehow, when I saw the Rebbe's writing I was reminded of that story and of that friend of mine. The story goes that a woman from Montreal - Mrs. Tzeitlin - asked the Rebbe what to do about her child who was not speaking like other kids his age. The Rebbe's response was for her to give her child Amino-Acid and that would help him develop his power of speech. The woman was a Russian Yidene, and what did she know about Amino-Acid? The Rebbe noticed that she was unsure of what to do next, and would probably forget by the time she got home. (She had come to NY to the Women's convention) So the Rebbe took a pencil and paper and wrote it down for her. She kept this treasure forever and shared it with the rest of us recently. To me this may not be a brain diagram, but it sure is worth more...
Special thanks to the Avner Institute
The drawing. Courtesy of HebrewBooks.
Any rebbe or rav who deals with sick people tries to tap his olam for remedies and data. he talks to doctors and former patients , and if your are the Lubavitcher rebbe who understod the scientific method and was interested in science,you may even read some journals on medical subjects.
ReplyDeleteThe Belzer rebbe does this today and I am sure others do too.
I was pretty close to the late Skverer rebbe of BP Rabbi David Twersky ZT"L. The rebbe of Skver=BP had a college education , but was no doctor, but conversations with doctors over years and speaking to patients gave him soem medical knowledge.He used this knowledge to refer the sick to doctors who he knew.
Many Russians are very into folk medicine and herbal healing. knowing about amino Acids shows that you read or listen to the vitamin oriented medical programs that are all over tlak radio and dominated WEVD in its last years. Shows sponsored by natural healers like Jerry Hickey , Winer Pharmacy and others give you this sort of data.but it hardly requires a MD degre or even a RN degree.
The Chazon Ish was the gadol hador in learning and from reading Grade was a zaddik as well, but showing ab rain surgeon how to operate is total nonsense. I am certain the rabbi Karelitz woudl never endanger a person's life by this sort of deed. I my opinion one of the basis of Judaism is common sense !
Rabbi Chaim Twersky Thchernobler Rav in BP the former chaplain of M. hospital in BP once told me when I was introduced to him as DR. Ploni (he thought I was a MD doctor) that he hopes the doctors don't have beards but know medicine and the rabbis know Judaism and have beards and thats the way it should be , a doctor should be a healer and a rav should be a Moreh of course knowing a bit about the other side does not hurt either and in recent years YU (RIETS)has produced several dozen doctors who also have semicha.But in our days its hard to be a specialist doctor and a rav muvhak who is a posek, (like the Rambam)perhaps there are such people in Israel like Dr. Steinberg, but I have not heard of them. In Germany of yore Dr. Biberfeld was dayan of Adas Israel in Berlina nd a medical doctor. Men like like Drs. Wallach , Falk Schlesinger Seligson etc were fine doctors but not speacialists nor were they rabbonim -poskim.
Schneur you are a treasure. I hope Hashem grants you many many more years to enlighten us with your comments, wisdom, maasim, Gourary defenses, yiddishe background, shtoltz, chutzpah, personality, old-world Dor Shishi frumkeit and general good humor.
ReplyDeleteKesiva V'Chasima Tova
Notwithstanding claims that the CI gained his medical knowledge from the Torah, I've seend a quote from a talmid that asked him ehre he got his medical knowledge. The CI answered the he read medical journals/textbooks in the BHaK (ala GR"A).
ReplyDeleteAnon,
ReplyDeletedid you see that CI answer on a piece of paper?
Who said the CI got it all from just learning Torah ? Could Reb Akiva Eiger also do brain surgery ? and the Ch CHaim ? why is it that only the CI got it with only torah ? but not the baal shem tov or the Vilna Gaon, and why couldn't he find a cure for cancer ?He new hilchos treyfes very well and spoke to Doctors and the same way he had to look in geography books to know where the international date line is , and couldn't figure it out from the Torah he read medical books for details on the human brain.
ReplyDeleteand trust me the Lubavicher Rebbe didnt find out about Amino acids from learning tanya
Benay Beraqer
ReplyDeleteShneur knows exactly from where the Rebbe got the amino acid info from, Art Raymond of the Yiddishe Radio, (I dont know how old you are) by Schneur zol zien gezunt, every thing is simple anthropology, as far as his flieshige Oigen could see, and we have to buy his wisdom, since his parents are from alte chassidim with "No Sirtuke? as you call it in the new Yiddish they were "De Zach"
Since this blog has turned into a lovefest for R' Schneur, shlita, I second the comments of yehupitz.
ReplyDeleteI admit that I am a simpleton midwesterner that only understands about 50% of what is written on this particular blog. Nevertheless, it is great fun, and HT comes up with the most incredible pictures.
In addition to R' Shmaryahu, zt"l, I am also fascinated with the Court of Boyan, and of course, R' Schneur has provided some valued insight there as well.
Reply to Tzig
ReplyDeleteI am a Lubavitcher and a great admirer of the Chazon Ish Z"L. I see no contradiction. He was a great Tzadik as well as a Gaon.
Reply to Shneur:
How can you doubt the brain surgery story when the diagram is right there. His knowledge of medicine was supplemented by his Divine assistance in such matters.
Re the CI:
ReplyDeleteWhat's the provenance of this diagram?
What on earth does the diagram indicate?
Could you tell us who Art Raymond was? WHAT DOES HE HAVE TO do with nutrition and surgery?
ReplyDeleteMa Rabbi
ReplyDeleteHow do you know that the doctor did not laugh from this diagram? Was someone in the operating room?
what exactly makes you a Lubavicher? what is your view on Penimius Hatorah that were taught by Chabad Rabiem?is it the truth? is their 2 truths? did the Alte Rebbe write in Tanya that Moshiach will come when Penimus Hatorah will be revealed and leaned by all? what do you think was the CI views on Chasidus bichlal and Chabad bifrat? Did u see his words on Mussar? Did u see the quote of the nephew Reb Chaim regarding his Uncles hisnagdus in the book Hagoan of Eliach? What do you think of someone being anti kabolah or arizal?
Art Raymond was the Dee Jay of the Yiddishe Radio in the heydays of Yiddish Radio, and Shneur assumes or he heard it from the nephew that the rebbe used to listen to him. They had some infomercials for the Amino Acid, and the rebbe stole the idea.
ReplyDeleteI don't get what he Chazon has to do with the story with the Rebbe?
ReplyDeleteAnd nobody thinks that a ki hu zeh is taken from the Chazon Ish if someone from Langeries Dr has a problem .
To Avrumi: what is Langeries
ReplyDeleteDr ?.
To anon.:What is this nephew, Reb Ch.K? You're saying things that nobody knows about.
Benay Braqer said...
ReplyDeleteWho said the CI got it all from just learning Torah ?
IIRC, R S Wosner 2x's in his Shut Shevet HaLevi.
Bring out the cool aid !
ReplyDeleteNo offense, Tzig but how do you know that the stories you hear about the Rebbe were true...
ReplyDeleteMazkirus was one of the best run intelligence agencies around, they kept the Rebbe informed about many things to give the impression he knew everything....
Sure he was a tzadik and unbelievable mind, but he had plenty of support.....
The story of Tzeitlin (Amino-Acid) in Hirshel's post -
ReplyDeleteis from a beautiful teshura from a recent chasuna of the baal hamaaseh's grandson. The teshura also has a great bio/mayses on the FR's mazkir, HaChossid R. "Chatche" Feigin HYD, and other priceless gems..
Downloadable (and printable) as PDF:
http://www.teshura.com/teshurapdf/Ceitlin-%20Nemes%20-%20Av%2030%205770.pdf
Art Raymond was the biggest am haaretz ever to be heard on radio. I cant imagine the Rebbe listening to his shows. Utter drivel.
ReplyDeleteArt Raymond was a gentleman who always gave kovod to every artist that he features on his show. He brought happiness and joy to thousands of Jews including many widows and shut-ins who listened to him regularly. He doesn,t deserve your criticism.
ReplyDeleteActually, Art Raymond brought MBD and other frum stars to the airwaves, especially because Werdyger Travel, as in MBD's father who also owned Aderet Records, was his major sponsor. For that he deserves credit, but he was just a DJ and announcer, no more.
ReplyDeletemy problem with amino acid is: amino acid is a general term it doesn't refer to anything specific. all proteins are composed of different amino acids, & there are many amino acids. to list a few:
ReplyDeleteLysine Aspartic Acid
Methionine Cysteine*
Phenylalanine Glutamic Acid
Threonine Glutamine*
Tryptophan Glycine*
Valine Proline*
Selenocysteine*
Serine*
Tyrosine*
Arginine*
Histidine*
Ornithine*
Taurine*
Who ever mentioned Art Raymond,? in the old days 1990's etc WEVD was the host sattion of dozens of daily programs about natural health, chiropractic, vitamins, herbs etc Chinese medicine, Indian medicine wholistic medicine (Dr. Eric Braverman) many of them very serious. WOR and WABC also hosted such progrmas with men like DR. Hoffman, Dr, Vagnini, Dr. Pressman , the world famous cardiologist Dr. Atkins A"H and others . If you listened to these progrmas you could learn much about vitamins , minerals, herbs , wholistic health and preventive medicine.etc etc. But obvioulsy some of my friends here were either toddlers then or busy doing other matters.I am certain many rebbes know about vitamins herbs and minerals, certainly in Poland many rebbes like the Sokolower, Piasetzner, Radziner gave out prescriptions that drug stores owned by Poles honored , given the state of pharmecuticals in those days I suspect these were for herbs, plants, vitamins, minerals garlic etc all of which does have a posative effect if you know what you are doing. Certainly the Lubavitcher rebeb knew about these things . You can bet on that !
ReplyDeleteAnonymous -
ReplyDeleteI am all ears please give me the massorah of Lubavitch as transmitted by the baal teshuva communtiy's ancestors. Okay lets start the zaddikim born in Long Island tell me how Chabad did or did not shokel in davening as thiz BT"s father saw it in some commune in CA ?
Did they wear gartlech in Reed College ? was the Chabad minhog different in Oberlin College ? Or can someone tell me the Chabad massorah on the seder plate based on how the Cantor (or maybe the ritual director Rev Hyman Fishermongerowitz - maybe he really knew ?)of Temple Bethel of Yehupitz Oklahama did it ?
(In seriousness I have nothing against any baal teshuva or against their parents on the contrary I admire both groups,, but Lubavitch started long before 1950)
Thanks to all for all the kind words I wish everyone a kesiva vechasima Tova, lets be zayche to "do it" again next year. A bazundre brocha for our bal achsanya I hope he has the keyches and "savlanus to keep this thing going !
ReplyDeleteSchneur,
ReplyDeletebut u will admit that the Tzietlins are not a hilly billy family with a pickup truck and a Harley Davidson in their driveway.
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned yet from LS volume 2 P 364-365
ReplyDeleteאין די יאדן תרנ״ד־ה") האבן ד י
מעדיצין־פראפעסארן אויסגעפונען א
נייעם אדער אין מוח, וואט דעד
אדער העל פט צו זכרון און צו פאר ־
טיפונג. איינער פון די בני בית*)
האט דאט דערציילט מיט גרויט
התפעל ות צו הוד כ״ק אאמו״ר
הרה״ק (מהורש״ב) ביים עפן. הוד
כ״ק אאמו״ר הרה״ק האט אויםגע־
הערט און גארניט געזאגט. נאכן
בענטשן האט ער געזאגט, מען זאל
א וויילע צואווארטן. ער איז דאן
אריינגעגאנגען צו זיך אין חד ר און
האט פון דאדט אר ו י ס געב דאכט א
קליין ב י כ ל חסידות, א כ ת ב ־ י ד פון
הוד כ״ק אדמו״ר האמצעי, און האט
געוויזן אז עט ווערט דארט אין זעקם־
זיבן שורות געבראכט וועגן ד עם
אדער. הוד כ״ק אדמו״ר האמצעי איז
דארט מבאר, אז עס איז פאראן אן
אדער אין מוח וואס ער איז מלא
אידים, און איז זיך מתנ ע נ ע — בא־
וועגט זיך — הין און צוריק און
דאם העלפט צו זכרון און צו העמקה.
אז ד ע ד אדער באוועגט זיד צו ד ע ם
מוח החכמה און בינה״) ה ע ל פט דאט
צו זכרון און אז ער באוועגט זיר
1ו ד ע ם זייט פון מוח הדעת העל פט
ראס צו העמקה. ד ע ר פאר זעען מיר,
אז ווען א מענטש וויל זיך אויף
עפעס דערמאנען הו י בט ע ר אויף
דעם קאפ אץ ווען ע ר וויל זיך אין
עפעס פארטי פ ן ב ו י גט ע ר איין ד ע ם
קאפ.
האט מען געפ רעגט ביי הוד כ״ק
אאמו״ר ה ר ה ״ ק : אויב אזוי, איז דאך
הוד כ״ק אדמו״ר האמצעי געווען א
ג ר ו י סער פ ראפעסאר . האט אויף ד ע ם
הוד כ״ק אאמו״ר הרה״ק געענט־
פ ע ר ט : ער — הוד כ״ק אדמו״ר
האמצעי — האט דאם געוואוסט, ווייל
למעלה אין אדם העליון איז דאס
פאראן, ממי לא איז דאס ביים אדם
ל מ ט ה זיכער אויך דא. —
My comments were not directed to the Zeitlin family or any one close to them .
ReplyDeleteMy comment was directed to the Annonymous who starts with Bnai Beraquer and proceeds to talk about soemthing he calls Die zach,