Rabbi Hillman was an eynikel of Radatz Chein, Zt"l, and carried his name. RaDaTZ was one the greats. RaDaTZ came to Eretz Yisroel in 1924/25 and passed away soon after. Reb Dovid Hirsh's name is mentioned with reverence until today. Der Eynikel took on the Chabad Rebbeyim by claiming that the Genizeh was forged. Needless to say the Rebbe was not pleased by that kind of talk coming davka from RaDaTZ's descendant and the one who carried his name. He was a Ponovizher bachur and one of Maran's big guns, maybe because they had a common, um, cause. There's no doubt that he was a tremendous gaon, and his admirers will tell you that he knew "all kisvei Chabad ba'al peh," but please don't tell me that he knew better than everybody else. That generations of mesorah mean nothing just because he had a good head. The naysayers love guys like him. Apparently he also had a minhag of making a huge pot of cholent and serving hungry Yeshivah bachurim all Shabbos afternoon. That too somehow proves that Chabad had it all wrong... Hillman passed away a few days ago. We had been talking about the Genizeh and his name obviously came up. In his book, "Igros Baal HaTanya U'Bnei Doro" he tries to prove that the Genizeh is false. He's mostly known for his work on the Frenkel Rambam, which makes you wonder why a TC like him would need to disprove a detail in Chabad history, no matter what the price. In any case, see if you can figure out why we brought davkeh this page from haTomim. It's aseres yemei tshuveh, why am I doing this?
I'm sure that אין עולם האמת זעהט מען אלץ אנדערש, and the zeide must've given him a cheylek...
נאך אללע מחילה בעאען
ReplyDeletethis is all you can come up with? to go straight in and attack a dead man?
you call that "attack?"
ReplyDeleteplease.
I was very nice.
for aseres yemei teshuva...?
ReplyDeleteauschwitz was what got you excited.
WOW.
ReplyDeletesome people really need to chill.
I think you were way to generous, giving him such praises.
ReplyDeleteIf it was up to me i would not even mention his passing.
The amount of tzar he caused the rebbe, and the hate he had to lubavitch was parallel to the marans.
Now Tig, would you mention the marans passing?
I remember seeing some Diary of Reb Avrohom Elimelech of Karlins last visit to Palestine,When he returned to Europe a few days before the outbreak of the war he cried because of the letter of the Baal Shem Tov that he sees terrible things... so the million dollar question that was supposed to be asked from the Chabad Traitor Hillman is, was the Chersoner Geniza Forger a Baal Ruach Hakodesh? he knew exactly what will happen in Auschwitz 40 years in advance?
ReplyDeleteWhat do I care if he knew a little Likutie torah or not? what was his views on Toras Hachasadus, Limud Hachasidus? Emuna in Achdus Hashem?
ReplyDeletedid his hate to the Rebbe fudge him up completely?
What he held about the genizah is agreed upon by all the mumchim including R'Chaim Lieberman.
ReplyDeleteI don't see why you would want to bring up this topic.Chabad has nothing to gain from this and aseres yemei teshuvah is not the time either.
Oh, about the cheylek you think he"ll "chap" from his zeydeh the Radatz:There's a reason it's called "oilelom ho'emes" and he"ll get a big yasher koach for striving for truth in this world.If I"m not mistaken he came out with his sefer in tov shin yud gimmel,no?Long before any major machloikes between Bnei Brak and Chabad.
Umesaymim betov
Please pardon my ignorance, but what genizeh are you referring to?
ReplyDeleteTo Anonymous of 12:56 am.
ReplyDeletePlease don't call Eretz Yisroel by the name of palestine. This is not personal but something that shouldn't be done. Before '48 this wasn't Eretz Yisroel? Every Jew no matter his political affiliations should refer to our land as Eretz yisroel or Eretz
HaKodesh.
Shmuel Deutch told me that the Rebbe told him personally that in the end he came to the conclusion that the genizah is false.
ReplyDeleteNow you can choose not to believe Shmuel Deutch but at least thats what he claims.
The letter from Oshpitzin is very interesting, however a talmid chochom has a right to express his opinion on anything he believes especially if it is not nogea lehalacha. This should not be implied as disrespect to his rebbeim who may believe otherwise. If this were not the case, Litvishe gedolim could never have become chassidim since they would have had to disagree with the Rebbe. I don't think that such an anti intellectual approach is beneficial to Chassidus. Ayin Ponim Latorah M Halberstam
ReplyDeleteYechiel
ReplyDeleteI dare to disbelieve the rumor Of Chaim Libermans statement in Moshe Lipshutz sefer hazikoran. Yitzchok Refoel a modern Researcher is very pro geniza in his book.
Hilman has 1 problem with his big grandfather the Redat"z, His emuna in Achdus hashem as the crystal clear emuna of the Rebiem or some convoluted Benai Berak faith . The truth of Geniza is a little blip on the screen. Our era had a lot of gedolim falling into traps of forgery, Yeushalmi Kodshim, Dovev Sifsie Yeshienim,Besomim Rosh etc...
AH
ReplyDelete"Shmuel Deutch told me that the Rebbe told him personally"
who is Shmuel Deutch?
is it Shimi the holy Rebbe of Liozne? the Memalai Mokam of the Alter Rebbe that runs the torah zoo?
I think he never had a "personal" Yichidus with the 7th Chabad Rebbe,it has to be a letter or Tzetel, can he please publish it
Anonymous Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteWhat do I care if he knew a little Likutie torah or not? what was his views on Toras Hachasadus, Limud Hachasidus? Emuna in Achdus Hashem?
d
Wednesday, September 15, 2010 12:59:00 AM
Can you please tell me the current lubavitch Emuna in Achdus Hashem wheb it relate to the rebbe?
Achdus Hashem Said
ReplyDeletethat the rebbe is a kind of Tzadik immersed his life and his total being to the Rotzan Hashem with no personal Negiohth whatsoever. His Chelek Elokai Mimaal is total revealed. And the Chasid is obligated to have Devaikus in the tzadik.
BTW, to write a question mark after the words Achdus hashem is borderline kefira, it"s the inyan of Piv Hichshiloy
I think their is a letter of the Rebbe in the Igroth Kodesh to Hillman for a Berocha for his finding a shiduch. The Rebbe gives him some Mussar on his modern hashkofas.
ReplyDeleteFrom a psychological viewpoint why did a eynikel of Radatz Chen (I believe 1 daughter married a brother of Reb Levik their daughter was Zelda Schneersohn-Mishikovsky) turn away from Chabad ?
ReplyDeleteAs far as the Karliner story I do not recall any Nevius from the Besht being involved in this.
one did not need to be the Besht to see that European Jews were in big trouble after 1918, that was apparent even to "zaddikim" like Jabotinsky. Althought the story of the karliner is more dramatic as the rebbe sailed back to Poland from Israel in late 1939, similiar predictions were made in the name of many gedolim in Europe, yet yet yet they did little in terms of urging Jews to get out tp Eretz Israel or otherwise.
When guys like R' Elimelech Zwibel and R' Mendel Vechter leave their to become Chabad that is didan natzach and the Rebbe has the right to 'poach them' for the greater good.
ReplyDeleteWhen someone leaves Chabad out of free choice and serious searching in avodas Hashem his is mocked and derided....despite all the good work and yes.....yedies in Toras Hachasides....
Sounds like sour grapes more than a logical argument......
What I don't get is people who never met the Rebbe defending his kavod from those who knew and rejected him......I guess the younger hot heads know better....
ReplyDeleteMaybe you can see from his example that not all was right in Chabad....
In fact there are more kiruv and chabad houses than when the Rebbe was alive....
Other than Tishrei trips to see the Rebbe and dollars Chabad is stronger than when the Rebbe was alve....what does that tell you ?
Maybe the Rebbe didn't have his hands so firmly on the reins since the early Mems.....
Anon.
ReplyDeleteDid you see that Diary of the Karliner chasid ? go look for it and freshen up your collection.
Anon 7:47
ReplyDeleteDid Hilman ever meet the Rebbe? do you know the age of all the defenders?
In seforim.blogspot Dr. Marc Shapiro mentions at length reb Dovid Tzvi with regard to his criticism of Eisenstein.
ReplyDeleteThere are 3 things that are sure in this world, death, taxes and that the Hersoner geniza is a forgery. Any amateur, myself included, who's ever seen the lofty language of the Alter Rebbe in the Igeres Hakodesh can tell the the bobbishe letters in the geniza could not have come from the same man. Hirshel, why beat a dead horse?
ReplyDeleteAs for Achdus hashem, I think that today Litvaks know it more than Lubabs. You guys know about ain aid milvadai? As K said "when you come to the next world and stand before the Rebbe.." Go learn some mussar Seforim.
who are you sayin never met the Rebbe?
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure he was raised Chabad at all, he was born after his elter zeide was niftar and learned in Ponovizh...
who are you sayin never met the Rebbe?
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure he was raised Chabad at all, he was born after his elter zeide was niftar and learned in Ponovizh...
An ailimisher
ReplyDeleteYou have all 3 facts wrong
Death never happened in chabad
Taxes, Our current finance minister Gietner in Washington DC did not pay his taxes
and the Geniza is emes
An Ailimisher
ReplyDelete"Go learn some mussar Seforim."
give us a list please
An ailimisher,
ReplyDeletedid you ever see the Rebbes letters on that matter, that only the tochen is true, why are you talking like a Bube,
One question only, who could a forger create a Ruach Hakodesh of the Besht regarding Auschwitz? If he would say Poland or Russia Ok, so he tried that some disaster will eventually happen, Since Klal Yisroel had every few year some calamity happen to them,but pinpointing a city so good, it has to make you think..
What is this Gnezyza? Who cares?
ReplyDeleteThere is a major couple of chapters about the Chersoner Genizah in the current edition of Yeshurun.
ReplyDeleteQuite clear to any objective reader that it was a forgery.You can also read R'Hillmans and the Rebbes correspondence there.There is also testimony from R'Chaim Lieberman, the Raayatzs right hand man,secretary etc who was in Odessa and worked for Gurarie the Lubavitcher gvir who purchased the letters to give to the Rasha"b.He is quoted as knowing the forgerer,a "drunk" who needed money and found an easy way to do it.
Can anyone post a copy of some of the Jeshuren highlights?
ReplyDeleteI always been facinated by how the Lubavitcher fell into this ziyuf