The completion of the Steinsaltz Shas
Matzav is wearings its Yeshivishe coat today, three days after advertising "Jews and Baseball" as its video of the day. I assume that was also to show you what not to see at the movie theater... After all, Maran said that in 1989 that all his (Steinsaltz's) works are kefirah... I'm sure Maran took the time to read them all then... The fact that this was right, smack in the middle of his Milchemes Hashem against Lubavitch in general also is a mere coincidence. Rabbi Scherman should also send him like a box of chocolates or an assortment of herbal teas, since that opened the door for them. They translated the Shas L'sheim Mitzvah, so as not to allow millions of Jews to be influenced by Steinsaltz. No other considerations whatsoever. It's interesting to note that despite the fact that he was only attacked because of his connection to Lubavitch - take my word for it, people - that Steinsaltz is sort of in no-man's land. Lubavitchers find him too way too "simplistic" when it comes to his interpretations of many aspects of Chassidus, including the Rebbe/Chossid relationship. Steinsaltz tells it like he sees it, in all areas of life, and that ticks many people off. So in short, Maran attacked a man for really no reason, well, other than being a Lubavitcher, of course, which is all the reason in the world.
ah freilikhen khoydesh!
Late addition: The Haskomeh from the Posek HaDor, Maran Harav Moshe Feinstein, zt"l
Nice attack.
ReplyDeleteNow you"ll be offended when posters attack your rebbe.
Of course, you are always right.Even when you are not
I won't be offended, I'll just delete them.
ReplyDeletebwahahahahahahah
From a comment on Matzav
ReplyDelete"I admit I have never read any of Steinsaltz’s “seforim,” nor will I EVER. The word of Maran Rav Schach that these writings are full of kefiros is enough for me. If the word of this one gadol is not enough for you, you should note that he was joined by many other gedolim: R’ Chaim Kanievsky, R’ Yosef Sholom Eliashiv, R’ Nissim Karelitz, R’ Aharon Leib Shteinman, R’ Michel Yehuda Lefkowitz, R’ Chaim Kreiswirth, R’ Eliezer Waldenberg, R’ Chaim Pinchas Scheinberg, R’ Shmuel Wosner, and R’ Meir Brandsdorfer all agreed with Rav Schach in condemning Steinsaltz’s works as kefiros."
Cannot vouch for this fellows facts
What happened to R. Steinsaltz's book on the Rebbe??
ReplyDeletedunno what happened
ReplyDeleteI'm not on his payroll. I promise.
For the record,Steinzaltz could have been smarter about the way he wrote certain things.He should have known that he would raise the ire of the frimmeh
ReplyDeleteAfter the fact he should have done what Rabbi Sacks from Englanddid when the frimmeh did not like certain passages in his books.He left them out
But he's not that type of politician, which Saks is.
ReplyDeleteSteinzaltz deserves the support of every Lubavitcher.
ReplyDeleteAfter all he is of the few Lubavitchers able to do such a project.
Even though he never learned in Lubavitch (he was in the Mir) and he is Lubavitch lite
"But he's not that type of politician, which Saks is."
ReplyDeleteThe Rebbe should have told him to be smart
"I won't be offended, I'll just delete them."
ReplyDeleteThe Lubob are starting to feel too good about themselves.Watch-out they have a very nasty face when not covered up by their fake "ahavas yisroel"
Of note that this nasty attack by Tzig is on the heels of their big Kinnus that the Tzig was glued to.
ReplyDeleteI guess he was so taken by the "superb" drashos about "ahavas yisroel" that he decided to show such an example.
Of note that this cretin did not even grow up Lubavitch.
Must've been the "love" that attracted him
the kinus has no heels.
ReplyDeleteof note is Tzvi's calling another Yid "cretin."
Hirshel,
ReplyDeleteWhat good will come out of such a posting?
Just another round of color war
Just another round of color war
ReplyDeletewhich is why I do it very sparingly
"the kinus has no heels."
ReplyDeleteWas that supposed to be a smart comeback?
as smart as the initial statement
ReplyDeleteI was gonna say it has no heels, it's flat, but that wouldn't sound good, now would it?
I think that he was put into creirem for a mixture of the 2 crimes of being a chabadsker and being a nonconformist
ReplyDeletePlease note:
ReplyDeleteNext time Tzig has a hissy fit about attacks against his in your face
chasides send him a link to his unprovoked provocation.
I was in the Museum of Natural History the other day, and I saw this huge piece of kefira known as a dinosaur. V'ein potze peh umetzaftzeif!!!
ReplyDeleteThe major problem with Steinzalts is that he lacks the yiras hakavod for rishonim and gedolei hacharonim ( and even for the Avos) that one imbibes in a beis medrash.He came to learning as a self made scholar with no rebbe or masores.In his mind Rashi says one thing and I see it differently rather than "I have to break my head to understand Rashi and if I don't get it its my problem not Rashi's.
ReplyDeleteRav shach was right! For the uninitiated Steinzalts is dangerous they need a Mesorah
[Besides his commentary is goiod until he hits something difficult then he fudges.]
Artscroll is a far better quality work and even better in the Hebrew version
Artscroll is waaay better at least for someone with any backround
ReplyDeleteYou hardly see Steinzaltz even in Chabad.
Expensive in English too.
Sammy
ReplyDeletedid you ever see the list of Gedolim that signed that the Belzer Rebbe of yerushaliem is a kofer?
Anon
ReplyDelete"The major problem with Steinzalts is that he lacks the yiras hakavod for rishonim and gedolei hacharonim"
you see this disrespect in his shas?
I"ve noticed that Lubavitchers really hate Artscroll.
ReplyDeleteThey are always busy with it.
Probably jealous.They have all these 50% off sales on their publications and sometimes they practically give them away for free.Yet there are few takers
I guess it especially pisses them off that a store like Eichlers, run by a Lubavitcher sells almost only Artscroll.
Tough like,stores carry stuffthat sells...
I think Lubavitchers are not good people.They are very negative and think that it's their way or the highway
ReplyDeleteI think Gary is a negative person, in general. He always sees the bad in people.
ReplyDeletePity you did not tell me this when you or your fellow Lubavitchers were trying to get me to give them $$$
ReplyDeleteI imagine they didn't get very far with you...
ReplyDeleteyou're too - shall we say - "smart," to give them money...
The Haskomeh is a phony letter written by Tendler, right guys?
ReplyDeleteRafael
ReplyDelete"They have all these 50% off sales on their publications"
it is strange that my father just asked me lately what is happening with artscroll they are on sale every week in all the newspapers. I think the offical kehot is on sale twice a year.
"Yet there are few takers"
I always heard from Snags that Lubobs learn only Likutie sichos,then why is their no takers?Or you are from a different hate school.
Abba
ReplyDeleteI heard that Marans letter against Stiensaltz is a phony letter written by Reb Mordechai Gross. My 2nd cousin was their when he fabricated the letter
Tzi Tzig.
ReplyDeleteThe letter from Reb Moshe blew it.
Maybe post Reb Moshes haskama on R Yisrael Odessers Petek....
Lets say it the way it is.
1)The attack on Steinzaltz was overblown. The Tanoim respect issue is a concept mentioned in chassidus that was taken out of context. Wandering Jew has wandered thru Steinzaltz too. Hes a shvache Apikores. pretty big Maamin actually.
He was also pretty shvache threat as most people dond find his stuff too stimulating.
2) Lubavitch has only themselves to blame for Artscrolls Phenomenal success. The Rayat'z began the English translation idea but his Borsht Russians couldnt get their act together. The Yodea Davar even know to tell how Lubab futched their Chance when Chadakov sent the fledgling Artscroll packing.
3)Although their obvious ommission of the Rebbes thoughts hurts
Artscroll has done Klal Yisrael a great service by making mainstream torah thought accessible. Artscroll has the right to run their bussiness by serving their readerships ideologies
You miss the point about Reb Moshe's haskomo. Reb Moshe was merely a posek, and al pi halocho Reb Adin is not a kofer.
ReplyDeleteBut there is so much more to yidishkeit than halocho. There is The Mesorah Publications, and loyt di mesorah, it appears he is a kofer. Presumably Reb Moshe is a kofer too, but it's easier to go after the little fish.
wandering
ReplyDeleteso we decided that all haskomos from reb Moshe are worthless?!
I wrote the following on another blog, against a post that quoted various scholarly criticisms against Steinsaltz, some quite nasty.
ReplyDelete"The Steinsaltz Talmud is a much more mysterious achievement than the Schottenstein Talmud, which in and of itself is sort of a unbelievable phenomenon. How did a baal teshuva who spent most of his younger life immersed in secular studies even think of undertaking such a project while still in his mid twenties? There is much we don’t know about this great man, Adin Steinsaltz.
The mystery only increases if one reads the fascinating essay on the creation of the Schottenstein translation. http://www.printingthetalmud.org/essays/15.pdf
I want to add a few polemical points. 1)Both translations were conceived by chassidish people, Steinsaltz a Lubavitcher, and R. Hershel Goldwurm z”l, a Belzer chusid born in Vienna in 1936. When Goldwurm passed away much of the heavy lifting was done by R. Yisroel Simcha Schorr who also has close chassidish connections. Nosson Sherman is associated with Stolin. 2) The common thread of the circle of people who worked on the Schottenstein project is Bais Medrah Gevohah in Monsey circa 1950 -1970, and then the larger circle of Lakewood, the Mir etc. 3) These ’guys’ illustrate a style of charedi Orthodoxy that formed the larger cadre that created the center of charedi life in America…not totally Litvish like Philly, RJJ, Skokie or Lakewood and not totally chassidish like Satmar, Bobov etc., but conversant and comfortable with both groups, while being somewhat Americanized and educated. 4) This group already knew the mesechte with rishonim and the major achronim before they undertook the translation. I can’t imagine Steinsaltz knew Shas and its commentaries before he ever started. 5) Hershel Goldwurm deserves special mention. He was brilliant, very quick mind, sharp, heimish, a Belzer even during the interregnum, a chassidesher lamdan of the highest caliber.
Anon
ReplyDelete"He came to learning as a self made scholar with no rebbe or masores"
did he learn in a yeshiva? by a magid shiur? I think he did learn by some Rebbe. Since when you need a mesorah on toras hashem? Chazal claim it is hefker lakol,
the only thing that needs a mesora is Ducks, Grasshoppers, Turkey, the Chasam Sofer adds to the List Etrogim. But torah is hefker, especially if it is not lehalocha, which must Lithuanin talmidie chachomim don"t posses.
"I always heard from Snags that Lubobs learn only Likutie sichos,then why is their no takers?Or you are from a different hate school."
ReplyDeleteYou guys print tons of Lekutei Sichos and send young boys to leave them out very discreetly at every shul.Nobody reads them and I 've heard that Lubavitch was begged to stop giving them out because nobody uses it and the price of genizah is very expensive.
I guess it's better off to put them into genizah......
R'Hersh Goldwurm was a Tora Vodaas and Beis Medrash Elyon boy.
ReplyDeleteI don't know when he became a little more chasidish, but portraying him as a "belzer" chosid is somewhat misleading.
You also make no mention of R'Chaim Malinowitz co-editor with Rav Shor, no chosid and alling R'Nosson Sherman a "Stoliner"?Nu he was pricipal ofEnglish studies there and his kids are Stoliner, but again he is a Tora Voddas boy
"The Steinsaltz Talmud is a much more mysterious achievement than the Schottenstein Talmud, which in and of itself is sort of a unbelievable phenomenon. How did a baal teshuva who spent most of his younger life immersed in secular studies even think of undertaking such a project while still in his mid twenties? There is much we don’t know about this great man, Adin Steinsaltz. "
ReplyDeleteSteinZaltz became frum at 14 so he had enough time to learn through Sha"s, he is a very bright guy and he was in a normal yeshiva not Chabad.If you want to know, than the author of the Gutnick Chumash,Chaim Miller,Lubavitchs answer to the Artscroll Stone Edition is a fellow who became frum in his mid 20's and about ten years later was already publishing the chumash.
It's unfortunate that Lubavitchers lack any notable talmidei chachomimthat they need to use newcomers.Make no mistake ,Chaim Miller is very bright and knows how to write English very well.Lubavitch got him in the middle of medical school
"so we decided that all haskomos from reb Moshe are worthless?!'
ReplyDeleteYes. They prove Reb Moshe was a very caring person. Reb Moshe was a true jew. He went out of his way to make every person feel important.
But besides for that the Haskamos prove very little.
it proves as much as having gotten a Dollar from the Rebbe...
But its good to see Evanstonjew back. And he makes a great point thats usually ignored. Steinzaltz was a one man band.
Its LikeWhatever
let me guess: you "wandered" in the Lower East Side too?
ReplyDeleteLol. actually i just wandered thru the Artscroll biogrophy.
ReplyDeleteReb Moshe never vouched for the authenticity of the petek. Read the "Haskomeh" to that.
ReplyDeleteמשה פיינשטיין
ReplyDeleteר"מ תפארת ירושלים
בנוא יארק
בע"ה
לכבוד אחינו בני ישראל, בברכת שלום וברכה וכס"ס.
באתי בזה להמליץ על הגאון ר` ישראל דוב אדעסער שליט"א, שבא לכאן מארצנו הקדושה, ופגשתי עמו לפני חג הפסח, וראיתי פתק סודי שיש לו דבר נפלא מאד.
הוא איש חשוב מאוד ויש לו ידיעות גדולות בחכמת הקבלה, וכדי לקבלו בכבוד הראויה, ולתומכו כפי שאפשר, בפרט ברצונו להדפיס מספרי האדמו"ר רבינו נחמן מרסלב זצ"ל, וכל אלו שיעזרו, יתברכו בכל הברכות.
ועל זה באתי על החתום לכבוד התורה. [תאריך]
does that vouch for the petek?
Some rabbonim hardly ever gave haskomos.The Brisker Rov for example (Lubavitchers:Brisker Rov was T'Yitzchok Ze'v Soloveichik, not R'Yoshe Ber from Boston, I"m adding this cuz you guys are quite clueless about non Lubavitch rabbonim)gave maybe 5 in his lifetime.That's why his haskomo to RavShach is so unique
ReplyDeleteRegarding the comment earlier
ReplyDelete"R’ Chaim Kanievsky, R’ Yosef Sholom Eliashiv, R’ Nissim Karelitz, R’ Aharon Leib Shteinman, R’ Michel Yehuda Lefkowitz, R’ Chaim Kreiswirth, R’ Eliezer Waldenberg, R’ Chaim Pinchas Scheinberg, R’ Shmuel Wosner, and R’ Meir Brandsdorfer all agreed with Rav Schach in condemning Steinsaltz’s works as kefiros"
it's all documented here:
http://www.yoel-ab.com/katava.asp?id=115
Anon
ReplyDeleteyou are a mechutzaf and according the Rambam you have a din Apikores, in yourshoes I would take the next plane to Har Hamnuchas with a minyan to be mekabel nezifa.
which anon has to mekabel nezifa? there are many! even you're anonymous!
ReplyDeleteYoni
ReplyDeleteso its a Machlokes haposkim Reb Moshes letter vs. a broadsheet. I think reb Shloma Zalmen said that the halocha is "always" as Reb Moshe, so we can go eat dinner steak and tropicana orange juice.
Steinzaltz could have avoided this cherem if he agreed to back off.
ReplyDeleteHe should have
Danny
ReplyDeleteThe Brisker Rov, (not the Gavad Boston the Rebbe Muvhak of Reb Mechel Fienstien the Sil of Reb Velvel of Yerushaliem I am adding it on since a lot of benai berakers have a tendency to deny it) gave a haskoma for a chasidic hagoda, does he agree with every think thats written their, In matter of fact Reb Mier the son of Reb Velvel said in a interview to 2 outlets 2 years ago that his father gave a nice haskoma for R'Shach because he knew that he needs it for a good shtele and his father was a Gutter.
back off?
ReplyDeletethey came to him and asked him to retract?
who came to him?
I think you ought to give your readers a more objective picture of the rabbi.
ReplyDeleteHe has participated in the so called Sanhedrin in Jerusalem , which even the Mizrachi rabbinate has nothing to do with.
He is a founder of Pardes a coed yeshiva in Jerusalem.
He was a visiting professor at the Yale Divinity School a school whose mission is to train Protestant ministers,
His books on Biblical personalities are not exactly Artscroll books either.
Finally he has turned many people off by his constantly pushing himself as "the greatest talmudic scholar alive".Even greater than rabbi Art Scroll.
the letter of the baal hapetek
ReplyDeleteR' Moshe's letter is from 1973, and I'm pretty sure that a lot of Steinsaltz's controversial stuff (mostly found in "The Essential Talmud" and "Biblical Images") didn't come out until later.
ReplyDeletethe Hebrew side says 5743, 1983
ReplyDeletewhy does the Baal hapetek have to apologize?
Woops, didn't see that...
ReplyDeleteEvanston Jew
ReplyDeleteYour theory that it is a wall to wall Chasidic crew working on Shottenstien is nice on paper, but it is not factual, by the haoras on Agadic chazals you see the big difference between Misnagdic Shottenstien and chassidic Mesivta gemorahs, the furthest they will go with a chasidic vort is a Reb Tzodak, which Rav Shor and Mister Sherman are very fond of.
Yoni
ReplyDeleteit was all printed earlier,
Mayer Pepper
ReplyDelete"He has participated in the so called Sanhedrin in Jerusalem , which even the Mizrachi rabbinate has nothing to do with"
can you give us please the rest of the story, that he left the organization when he realized it veering of halacha.
Mayer Pepper
ReplyDelete"He was a visiting professor at the Yale Divinity School a school whose mission is to train Protestant ministers,"
did he say some word their that could be translated that he agrees with them? or he was preaching the dvar hashem for priests, did not the ramban and a lot of rishonim have dialogue with priests.
"which Rav Shor and Mister Sherman are very fond of."
ReplyDeleteAnon:5:23
I see you don't like Rabbi Nosson Sherman.
You have to be a very jealous Lubavitcher.
Figures, you guys are so immature
Mayer Pepper
ReplyDelete"Finally he has turned many people off by his constantly pushing himself as "the greatest talmudic scholar alive".Even greater than rabbi Art Scroll."
did he say it? or he was not moche on the medias portrayal of him? Did rav Shach moche when he was titled Rabon Shel "Kol" Bnie Hagole????
Mayer Pepper
ReplyDelete"His books on Biblical personalities are not exactly Artscroll books either."
so are the hashkofes of RSR Hirsch
Lots of bored Lubavitcher shluchim on here today.
ReplyDeleteI can feel their resentment and jealousy.
Guys, go buy your cholov yisroel and shechitas anash and go home.
I think Rabbi Steinzaltz would not object to being the next Lubavitcher rebbe.
ReplyDeleteHe is knowledgeable , knows languages and the sciences and there is nobody else.
I say leave your job as Rosh Hasenhedrin and move to Crown Heights
R Steinsaltz has said that he has "more chance of being King of Poland than being the next Lubavitcher Rebbe"
ReplyDeleteFacts are facts
ReplyDeleteSteinzaltz gemorahs were a great idea but Artscroll did a much better job.
Kinas sofrim tarbeh chochma.
Every shul with a halfway decent otsar seforim has an Arscroll in English or by chasidim mainly, in Hebrew, very few have Steinzaltz.
Just the facts people
Who were the five that the Brisker Rov gave haskomos two (besides for Rav Shach and R. Paramtchik)?
ReplyDeleteDo you have the loshon? The haskomoh he gave to Avi Ezri was very telling. You see the chavivus he had for Reb Lazer who was practicaly a ben bayis by him. The BR had a special fondness for him because ehr hut fatshtanin an inyun like no one else. It is well known, that towards the end of Reb Velvel's life, he spend a lot of time, behind closed doors, discussing policy with Rav Shach.
BTW, Reb Michel Fienstien was not a talmid of Rabbi Sol. by any strech of the imagination. They both led a kibutz in Boston during the war. He was a talmid of Reb Moshe, his shver and obviously the Mirrer Mashgiach.
I"m not sure how many haskomos the Brisker Rov gave, but there were very very few.
ReplyDeleteEvery one he gave was to really special people.
Btw, this Anonymous poster 5:06pm
Same Lubavitcher guy from a Satmar backround always making up absolute nonsense
Danny
ReplyDeleteis it a lie that Reb Mechel Fienstien was a SIL of reb Velvele Brisker? or that he learned by his cousin of Boston? or he gave the haskoma on the Hagoda?
where is the nonsense exactly?
I wrote because no one else seems to step up to the plate, not because I am an expert with special knowledge. In response to Yumy, I incorrectly said B.M.G. of Monsey when it should be B.M.E. of Monsey. I don’t know whether R Goldwurm went through Torah Vodaath, and if indeed he did thank you for telling me. My impression is that he was a Belzer and with roots through his family. Your core point here is correct, Torah Vodaath was the main feeder school to B.M.E. My real point about R. Sherman was that he belonged to the same chabura and its culture. If Art Scroll ever publishes a list of all those that made the shas translation possible, my comments might not stand up… You have to understand this internet has talked about Rabbi JB Soleveitchik around 4 million times, and if it weren’t for blogs like this, all the world would know is Rabbi M. Tendler’s quip in Tradition that chassidim will disappear because all they are about is welfare and rent control. I wanted to give a concrete example otherwise. My claim is that what we have here would have been very close to what would have been created in chassidisher centers in Europe, solid daf after daf with the major mefurshim, not 22 blat a year with 900 nafka mine’s.
ReplyDeleteAnon,
ReplyDelete"he spend a lot of time, behind closed doors, discussing policy with Rav Shach."
it is revisionism at its best, do I have to believe that Menachem Porush was Brisker Rovs closest confidant or Shlom Lorecz that he was Brisker Rovs personal confidant, I choose to believe the family that no Shach no Porush no Lorencz was a confidant.
I just want to Point out Rav Shach was not Happy about Artscroll either he just did not voice his opinion but he was going too until an American Godol called him and Asked to Him to back down as it was a need for All the Shvach Kupps in America.
ReplyDeleteYirmy
ReplyDeletedoes Hirshels blog belong only to Bored Lakewoode Kolel Yungeliet?
Fievel.
ReplyDeleteWho dares not to like the Lovable fuzzy Mister Shermam? we have to put him in cherem as we did successfully with Stiensaltz, are still all the Gedolim available to sign?
Anon,
ReplyDeletedo you know the reason that the godul hador Rav Shach did not like it? I am really anxious to hear? their is a other idiot that does not like it, Rav Garelik the son of the Rosh yeshiva of a yeshiva that he denies that exist.
Evanston,
ReplyDelete"I don’t know whether R Goldwurm went through Torah Vodaath,"
R'Bogomilsky, who ran in the elections for the post left open in the Crown Heights Beis Din mentioned that he and R'Hersh Goldwurn were the valedictorians in Torah Vodaas High School.
Torah Vodaas and it's extension Bais Medrash Elyon was at it's heyday about 55 years ago.
Bais Medrash Elyon had many chasidishe boys, though at the time wearing full chasidishe garb was no so common
Regarding R' Shach and the artscroll gemarah: (http://matzav.com/the-artscroll-revolution-5tjt-interviews-rabbi-nosson-scherman)
ReplyDeleteR' Nosson Sherman - "Rav Shach did have difficulties with it. He said, “It would make learning Gemara too easy.” Privately he said that he was troubled by it. Several gedolim communicated with him, and he said, “If they are taking responsibility for it then I won’t say anything publicly against it.”"
yeah, another haskama r. velvel wrote was for a lubavitcher, zalmanov, which is almost word for word of shach's haskama. let's see you guys retroactively declare him the gadol hador.
ReplyDeleteYoni
ReplyDelete"If they are taking responsibility for it"
for what? that it will not make shas too easy? or we will not get in their kefira? Yelamdaini Rebinie.
What is the issur of having shas easy? was Rashi Hakodesh not a parshan to make shas easier?
Yoni
ReplyDeletecan we not conclude that Rav Shach was not qualified to be manhig hador? that he chas vesholem was about to put a halt to the biggest hafotzas and harbotzas hatorah in the last generations
its a regular worthless tendler haskama, its from how many months before r moshe was niftar, cmon. every bar bei rav dichad yoma knows to check the dates on r moshes haskomas, wich were given out rather freely, even when he was bikoach...
ReplyDelete"What is the issur of having shas easy? was Rashi Hakodesh not a parshan to make shas easier?"
ReplyDeleteCheck this out:
http://books.google.com/books?id=PLBoDfvBQ24C&printsec=frontcover&dq=HaRav+Schach:+conversations+:+stories+to+inspire+the+yeshiva+world&hl=en&ei=uY_YTN7cNsKBlAf3tIX9CA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
page 95 "Torah through Toil"
Here's a shorter link:
ReplyDeletehttp://books.google.com/books?id=PLBoDfvBQ24C&pg=PA19&dq=HaRav+Schach:+conversations#v=onepage&q&f=false
Isn't Mr. Sherman also a baal tshuva who went to TV?
ReplyDeleteFirst the Ben Ish Chai in His Hakdamah to one of his Seforim says if you look at history the Jews always Poskined like the less strongly opinionated poskim like Beish Shamai versus Beis Hilell,He has a list see there, Hence Lfi Anius Dati HAKATAN Rav Moshe won out Rav SHach or the Americans won out the Isreali Gedolim in the fight about artscroll amongst other things also in reference too
ReplyDelete"wearing full chasidishe garb was no so common"
CHASSIDISH DRESS was BANNED!!! Hence the Malachaim where thrown out of Torah Voddas (I would love to get the Whole story there But No one Talks since The Mashgiach(RAV WOLFSON) to my understanding was one of the parties involved,but on the wrong side)and the one Shtrimel in lakewood we all know what happened there but as the Saying goes AMERICA IS NISHT ANDRESH.
i remember the jewish observer article citing r.a,s,saying law moshe mi-sinia were actually made by the rabbies for social economic reasons...in his letter to the eidah-hardit he said he made mistakes and will give a refund to anyone...
ReplyDelete-Snag: re:steinsaltz's Rebbe bio - http://j.mp/db3s7x
ReplyDelete"Yirmy said...
ReplyDeleteLots of bored Lubavitcher shluchim on here today.
I can feel their resentment and jealousy.
Guys, go buy your cholov yisroel and shechitas anash and go home."
I happen to be acquainted with many Lubavitcher shluchim with and without blemishes but "bored Lubavitcher Shluchim"?No such creature exists and one does not need to much seichel,as Yirmy's for example, to understand why.
"I can feel their resentment and jealousy.".Of what? Of small minded and intellectual pygmies such as Yirmy and the "wisdom" that they attribute to themselves?No insult intended to you and your bekovidig blog,Hirshel,but there are not many shluchim who are even aware of this blogs existence and even if yes, I am sure that they have much more pressing issues,then taking the inane and nonsensical statements of the Yirmys of this world to heart.
If Yirmy really feels their "resentment and jealousy" I strongly suggest that he sees a good shrink at his earliest opportune.
"Guys, go buy your cholov yisroel and shechitas anash and go home".In my perusal of this past weekend's Hamodia,the heading of one of the full page ads in the international section, caught my eye."Business Halacha in our daily lives" presented by two chosheve Litveshe,yeshivishe Rabbonim in the Flatbush area.Far be it from me to ridicule this area of halocho in which we can all use some input.My interest being aroused,I read the small print.A number of important topics were on the agenda but one really got me by the gut.The profound question of whether "using a friends shtender in shul without asking him" is permitted.Another was "borrowing an umbrella from the coat room for a minute outside in the rain".Gevald!!!Der hoiz brent un men zorgt zech ibber di vantzen.And Yirmy finds the need for the use of Cholov Yisroel trite and amusing.How sad.
Mottel
ReplyDeleteYour link does not work.
Anon3 Rabbi Bergman is not Litvish at all he goes as far as too put on a Hungarian accent with his Chassdish Havarah he is Heimish!
ReplyDeleteBut I completely agree with everything else you said maybe Yirmy might have to leave the tri state and realize the only place he can go is to the Shluchim and shockingly enough he wont be so adamant in his Anti-Chabad stance
ReplyDelete1. no ffb would have a hard time understanding what there is to oppose about artscroll. perhaps the good outweighed the bad (maybe), but we all (at least us ffbs) can see the tremendous churban that was caused by the dumbing down of Torah.
ReplyDelete2.anon3, choshen mishpat law is important to jews. the laws of using your friends umbrella and shtender are as important as any other law (try to find an ffb madrich to help you understand this, or at least call the guy that as mekarev you)
"wearing full chasidishe garb was no so common"
ReplyDeleteCHASSIDISH DRESS was BANNED!!! Hence the Malachaim where thrown out of Torah Voddas (I would love to get the Whole story there But No one Talks since The Mashgiach(RAV WOLFSON) to my understanding was one of the parties involved,but on the wrong side)and the one Shtrimel in lakewood we all know what happened there but as the Saying goes AMERICA IS NISHT ANDRESH."
Anon 7:58pm
You've got your dates totally mixed up.The story with the "Malochim"was in the late 30's if I"m not mistaken.I think R'Avrohom Levine, known as the "mALACH" was nifter in the mid 30's.I also don't think they were bootedfrom Torah Vodaas for wearing chasidishe levush.Remember that R'Shraga Feivel Mendelowitz was partial to chasidism, still he was the one to send them away.
Rabbi Wolfson you are talking 40's 50's, when you already had some chasidishe levush in America.Btw,Rabbi Wolfson was dressed like a regular Litvishe boy and he shaved, like most boys in TV.Bais Medresh Elyon was for older boys, mostly and had a strong element of Chasidic boys who were Holocast survivors.Still besides beards, chasidishe levush was not very common.Btw,R'Gedalya Shor, shaved for a couple of years after his chasena.
Different times, my friend.
Oh, in Lubavitch on Dean Street and in Montreal, some boys shaved!
Sam Melamed, still does not have a beard.
As I said very different times.But I"ve noticed the pendulum swinging back.Once upon a time Lubavitchers did not touch their beards.I "m talking in the 60's and on.Today the beards in C.Heights are becoming shorter and non existent by the more modern.Even on COL you can see Chabad family chasenas with the choson without a beard
Dovy in Jersey
ReplyDelete"but we all (at least us ffbs) can see the tremendous churban that was caused by the dumbing down of Torah."
I am not an artscroll fan nor foe, but dumbing down of Torah is being done by dumbing down the Rosh yeshiva position in the largest yeshiva thru nepotism, Artscroll will only add new new torah masses that will create eventually new torah giants.
Anon
ReplyDeleteis Reb Mayer Weberman of Willi/Malochim not the same age as Rav Wolfson? Reb Mayer zol zien gezunt is from the core malochim group of TV
R'Weberman is about 90,R'Wolfson is about 80
ReplyDelete"anon3, choshen mishpat law is important to jews. laws of using your friends umbrella theand shtender are as important as any other law" and so is being mehuder in kashrus including cholev Yisroel or whose shechita one uses ..
ReplyDelete"Try to find an ffb madrich to help you understand this, or at least call the guy that as mekarev you"
Halivai I would be a BT due to the dictum "bimokom she ballai tshuvah omdim ....." but alas I'm FFB.
"laws of using your friends umbrella and shtender are as important as any other law".Thats debatable.
""laws of using your friends umbrella and shtender are as important as any other law".Thats debatable."
ReplyDeleteWhat is the debate? Maybe that ben odom lechaveiro is EVEN more severe?
That since Cholov Yisroel is a machloikes Horishoinim and Achroinim AND tHAT r'mOSHE WAS MEIKEL??
Lubavitchers have their own Torah, it's a waste of time debating this "torah chadosho"
ReplyDeleteI"m curious to know
ReplyDeleteIf I forwarded your name and your rebbitzens to Artscroll,Agudah etc, if you"d be so brave to curse them out?
Don't think so
Or maybe you really are a total kool-aided Stalinist style robot??
I don't mean this in a bad way.
ReplyDeleteBut your kool-aided nonsense is clouding your senses
I don't have anything against ur blog, as long as u r honest.
Stop cursing and basheigetzing people from ur anonymous perch.
Blog with ur own name OR treat people with respect
I don't think u r a bad guy per se.I think that ur need to kiss up to LubaVitch brings out a horrible side that u have that most people don't know about
ReplyDeleteChuny
ReplyDelete"since Cholov Yisroel is a machloikes Horishoinim and Achroinim"
are you sure it is a Machlokes rishonim? I think the heter is discussed the first time in the Pre Chodosh,if you never heard from him, then I will tell you, that he was a Achron
Sammy
ReplyDelete"Lubavitchers have their own Torah"
what does that mean?
Evanston - Greetings and welcome.
ReplyDeleteThe link you supplied says that Rav Yankev Kaminetsky, a Litvak, told Artscroll to do the Shas.
And R. Yisroel Salanter, noch a Litvak, was involved with a Gemara translation over a hundred years ago.
Motel - A dank, even if I don't buy the editorial.
Sammy
ReplyDelete"Lubavitchers have their own Torah"
what does that mean?
It means (In the immortal words of one of our greats) that Lubavitch is the CLOSEST religion to Judaism....
Because the rest arent even close...
Chabad still discusses the connecting to God thingie and the most oft repeated commandment of loving and fearing God. But because they have a different interpretation of 'Uboi Sidbaken...Ela Hadbek BTalmidei Chachamim' they are only 'Close'they have a different set of teachings; a Different 'Torah'.
However our jewish born brothers who are mainly busy with the Shaileh of borrowing ur friends shtender shelo midato while 13 million jews are marrying shikses and 130,000 yungeleit are without parnassah with 13,000 Kids in Heimishsville contemplating where to get hold of a ipod and pot...
They aint even close my friend.
Its LikeWhatever
"?are you sure it is a Machlokes rishonim? I think the heter is discussed the first time in the Pre Chodosh,if you never heard from him, then I will tell you, that he was a Achron"
ReplyDeleteI am sure
Wandering,
ReplyDeleteIf Lubavuitch is so close, why don't you join them??
Lubavitch have their own Torah, own god and own religion
ReplyDeleteWande
ReplyDelete"different interpretation of 'Uboi Sidbaken...Ela Hadbek BTalmidei Chachamim'"
did you see the biur of the Toldos Yakov Yosef on that issue,in the last Hiechel Habesht? if you ever saw that periodical
Moshe
ReplyDeleteobviously he is not a mevakesh
Anon
ReplyDelete"Lubavitch have their own Torah, own god and own religion"
then you are potur from hating them since their are no arvus
Whether Cholov Yisroel applies in America today is a machloikes Rishoinim and achroinim.R'Moshe Feinstein held that even according to the shitos that are machmir, since there are laws against mixing non non kosher milk into cows milk it is mutter according to all shitos.
ReplyDeleteCholov Yisroel is an issur derabonnon, where generally one is more meikel.
INTERESTING TO NOTE THAT chodosh which according to most shittos is me'dooraysa Chabad are totally not interested and even mock people who want to be machmkir.
As someone
Lubavitch have their own torah, and mitzvos such as birthday parties etc..
INTERESTING TO NOTE THAT chodosh which according to most shittos is me'dooraysa Chabad are totally not interested and even mock people who want to be machmkir.
ReplyDeleteit's interesting to note that you're probably some Yankee doodle with no mesorah who makes stupid generalizations without knowing what he's talking about.
Let's not go to your Magyar "mesorah", shall we.
ReplyDeleteAm hooretz.
Keep to your "mitzvos" of birthdays
Your own Prophets
Your own self corronated "Nesiei Hador" and self anointed Moshiach.
And many more "mitvos" I did not mention...
let's yeah go to my Magyar mesorah. I'll take it anyday over your shtuki asufi mesorah.
ReplyDelete"I'll take it anyday over your shtuki asufi mesorah."
ReplyDeleteI did not want to go there.
Moom shebecho-nik
sorry, pal. Not this time.
ReplyDeleteYisroel
ReplyDeletein the Ashkanazic world 100's of years before Chassidus their was never a minhag of being machmir in Chodosh,The Bach which was considered the posek hador wrote a long torah that explained on what the heter was built on. The Gra which was not considered a posek(till the Mishneh Berora incorporated him in the world of pesak on a very big scale)wrote very sharp that it is ossur with no leeways, his words were not heeded even in Lita (see Mishkeos Yakov)In the world of Chabad it seems that it was some minhag to be machmir more then all other chassidus as you see from the Teshuvas Avnie Nezer that by the Holy Seer of lublin they were using Beer from Chodosh. But Cholev Akum was never a mesorah to be maikel in Klal Yisroel, and certain poskim from the Hungarian school labeled Reb Moshe as a Poretz Geder for that. You have a point that Chodosh is a question of a deoraise, but their is a concept by the poskim of Puk Chazi man Amo Devar,Bnie Neviem Hem etc...
to the anon who said that artscroll must be good because nepotism is bad don't u know that 2 wrongs don't make a right?
ReplyDeleteas a side note, check out the chapter in mekor boruch where rav epstein zt"l discusses all of the attempts in his day (early 19000's) to translate shas and states his strong opposition to any such attempt (he was a liberal by any standards btw),
dovy
Yisroel,
ReplyDelete"Keep to your "mitzvos" of birthdays"
adding on a day of Hisorerois on your birtday,is not a kula I think,Especial Chasidim who dont have the 30 days of elul as the Misnagdim , so they do it on their birtdays with haclotes toivois amongst their friends.
Dovy in Jersy
ReplyDeletewhere does Rav Epstien speak about it? it is I think 3 volumes.
Dovy
ReplyDeleteyou probably heard of the haskoma of the Chasam Sofer for dr pinner shas?
Forget about translating the Talmud
ReplyDeleteCananyone do a real translation of Tanya that makes any sense?
Thank you
A short story to illustrate some points I made above.
ReplyDeleteOn one of my flights back from far of Australia to the USA,a yeshivish type of individual sat down next to me.My intuition told me that he would ask me that perennial question that seems to plague most such types only when on a plane to some international destination.Sure enough and true to form,the question was asked."Do you know when neitz is"? After respectfully answering "no", the young man then unabashedly,without batting an eyelash proceeded to watch 16 hours worth of silver screen entertainment on the gizmo found on most international flights until our arrival at LAX.Vihamaiven yovin.I rest my case.Perhaps he left his shtender at home.
Rav Adin has some books on the Tanya too
ReplyDeleteAnon3,
ReplyDeleteMikro moley dibeir hakosuv "Torah lo bashmayim hi"
Anon3
ReplyDeleteYou are long on beard and short on sechel.
Anything wrong with asking whenneitz is?
You were probably drinking vodka and kool-aid for the next 16 hours.
Yuck.
Zoken ashmai
Anon3
ReplyDeleteYou sound like a real ohev yisroel
Anon,
ReplyDelete"he spend a lot of time, behind closed doors, discussing policy with Rav Shach."
it is revisionism at its best, do I have to believe that Menachem Porush was Brisker Rovs closest confidant or Shlom Lorecz that he was Brisker Rovs personal confidant, I choose to believe the family that no Shach no Porush no Lorencz was a confidant."
Uh, not only the family doesn't deny that Rav Shach was a close confidant, they speak about it publically. You can choose to believe what ever you want.
For the litvaks concerned about dumbing down torah - IMHO artscroll is far dumber than steinsaltz. steinsaltz just translates and brings interesting points to the table - artscroll kvetches ois pshat.
ReplyDeleteRE: artscroll shas. Most people on the payroll are not hasidic; especially with their approach to Gemara. R. Schor from Monsey is just one of many including R. Waxman (Effie's brother, who is much bigger than him in learning) and many others. Also, Reb Chaim Malinowitz is no chassid by any stretch of the imagination.
ReplyDeleteTzig is right, that Artscroll gained the most out of Shteiny, although it is not easy to admit that Tzig is right about anything -except whether there is a chiyuv to make a blessing on Kool Aid.
why would you NOT make a blessing on kool-aid?
ReplyDeleteYou are not drinking it to quench your thirst
ReplyDeleteof course you are
ReplyDeletekool-aid is delicious and thirst-quenching
"For the litvaks concerned about dumbing down torah - IMHO artscroll is far dumber than steinsaltz. steinsaltz just translates and brings interesting points to the table - artscroll kvetches ois pshat."
ReplyDeleteYou obviously don't
know what you are talking about.
Gemarah is not for you.Keep to saying Raba"m yomy
I would be surprised if ANYONE on the Artscroll Schottenstein payroll is from a Chasidic learning backround.
ReplyDeleteR'Schor is NOT Chasidic in his learning for example.
Artscroll needed quality people who A)Needed to be able to learn,disqualfying most alumni of chasidic yeshivas and B)Able to explaim themselves concisely without "bebbing" again excluding chasidim and Lubavitchers and C)Command of English, excluding the same riff raff
I guess that leaves only you, Shelly boy, eh?
ReplyDeleteare you Scherman or Zlotowitz?
Do note that, even before Soncino, in the 19th century, there was another major translation of Gemoro into English, with its own Chabad connection: namely, the fargrayzte translation done by Radkinson, aka Frumkin, ba'al hamechaber "Shivchei HoRav" & more -- an eynikel of Reb Aharon Strasheliye. He had to flee Russia (long story...) & immigrated to the USA, where, under the aegis of HUC in Cincinnati, he (mis)"translated" the Bavli. This was a surprise to everyone, that a greenhorn like him can master English so quickly, let alone take on & execute such a gargantuan task -- until it was discovered that he had a team of American students do the actual work for him. Sounds familiar....
ReplyDelete-- ZIY
I don't think it leaves me, but rest assured that you will not be getting a call anytime soon.
ReplyDeleteI think the three reasons I mentioned suffice to exclude the call
Hey ZIY!!!
ReplyDeleteNow at least we have a (ex)Lubavitcher with some brains!
Debating these clones is tiresome and so not challenging.
Shelly is right. Look at the chasidishe yeshivos and notice the high number of Litivishe trained facultary members (many of them just chassidic in dress only). Look at Alexander, Bobov, Pupa in Ossining, etc.
ReplyDeleteSheldon
ReplyDeleteif you go thru the list you will find a guy that I know personal that is Chasidic from Chasidic yeshivahs,
Your view is total crap since Mesivta is producing a beautiful shas with Biurie tosfas by 75 percent chasidic yungeliet,
So your anti chasidic point is 1 piece of hogwash
anon3
ReplyDeleteAre you also stuck in the apikrosheses murk that learning lishmuh (not halacha l'maysah) is less value, r"l? Don't take the worst of Chabad!
Anon,
ReplyDelete"Uh, not only the family doesn't deny that Rav Shach was a close confidant, they speak about it publically"
who speaks about it publicly,
Reb Duvid or Reb Avrohom Yeshua?
I know for a fact that both are laughing it off
heldon
ReplyDeleteif you go thru the list you will find a guy that I know personal that is Chasidic from Chasidic yeshivahs,
Your view is total crap since Mesivta is producing a beautiful shas with Biurie tosfas by 75 percent chasidic yungeliet,
So your anti chasidic point is 1 piece of hogwash"
Uh, Mesivtah is in Hebrew. Anyways, Mesivtah is meant to dumb down the rayd; not for precision and klurkeit.
"ur view is total crap since Mesivta is producing a beautiful shas with Biurie tosfas by 75 percent chasidic yungeliet,"
ReplyDeleteYeah,yeah
Hey, who is the Nosi Hador?
I knew it! Shows your grip on reality
Not that mimerchok yovi lachmoy, but here is a recent lecture by J. Telushkin (via chabad.org) where he mentions a letter from the Rebbe who writes to Shazar that his only concern about Shteinzalts is that he might be too much of an onov to actualize his full potential.
ReplyDelete(See: http://www.chabad.org/multimedia/media_cdo/aid/1335518/jewish/The-Rebbes-Example.htm Timecode: 19:00)
Does anyone know if this is in Irgos?
-- ZIY
Shelly
ReplyDeletethe nosi hador is Barack Obama and 75% are chasidic
Farshtantoo
Tzig should give "ZIY" an opportunity to spread some of his knowledge. Maybe ZIY can show the Rebbe's hyper-diyukim in Moshe's choice of wording of his father's sichos.
ReplyDeleteMany people have had a problem with Lubavitchs' publishing houses, publishing ONLY Lubavitch literature, while at the same time the same Lubavitchers criticize Artscroll and others for not including Lubavitch torahs.
ReplyDeleteThe truth my friends, is that Lubavitch would love to publish non Lubavitch Torah books and translations, the "minor" problem is that they don't have very many people who can do it.It's a tough life being a Lubavitcher and not very conducive to study.To many farbrengens, to much vodka, to many chabad holidays.To many texts to SAY:Rambam yeimy,Chitas,tehillim, Sichos Keidesh etc...
Eli Touger is just one guy and the new star Chaim Miller is way to busy.
In the foreseeable future you are all "stuck" with Artscroll
(You can also do what many Lubavitchers do:Not learn.Like thisyou won't need Artscroll)
Anon,
ReplyDelete"Uh, not only the family doesn't deny that Rav Shach was a close confidant, they speak about it publically"
who speaks about it publicly,
Reb Duvid or Reb Avrohom Yeshua?
I know for a fact that both are laughing it off"
No you don't.
RAY publically. So does Reb Meir and Rivkah
"Are you also stuck in the apikrosheses murk that learning lishmuh (not halacha l'maysah) is less value, r"l? Don't take the worst of Chabad!"????.Did I say that? Pleeease explain.
ReplyDeleteWhile we are discussing Lubavitch vis-a-vis the rest of the Jewish world, can I get a question in?
ReplyDeleteWhat's this business about the Rebbe being Nosi Hador?
The Rebbe passed away in 1994, today in late 2010 we are not he same generation by any stretch
Besides for this whole Nosi thingee being an unknown term in the last thousand plus years, since the days of Reish Galusa
Anon3
ReplyDeleteI love you.You are such a stereotypical Lubob that sometimes I think you are just a Snag in disguise looking to make Lubavitch look immature
Moshe, take my word for it, you are only apposed to the rebbe being the nusi hador because you hate chabad. If Satmar would call Rabayneey Yoel the nusi, you would have no objections. The one person to publically voice the same sentiments as you, didn't say, "who ever heard of nusi", but "who made him the nusi"
ReplyDeletemany years ago, when i learned that the aguda magazine (the jewish observer)was about to publish a "hatchet job" essay on the steinsaltz talmud by a.feldman i called that good and wonderful man moshe sherer. i asked him, "since you know that this is a mean spirited effort, why are you allowing this in your magazine?" he said,"because elya shvey threatened my job if i refused."
ReplyDelete"Moshe, take my word for it, you are only apposed to the rebbe being the nusi hador because you hate chabad. If Satmar would call Rabayneey Yoel the nusi, you would have no objections. The one person to publically voice the same sentiments as you, didn't say, "who ever heard of nusi", but "who made him the nusi"
ReplyDeleteWow!!Sounds verrry convincing!
Ferd, my main problem with Nosi Hador is the little problem that one needs a living Nosi.
I"m happy that you have drunk enough kool-aid to convince yourself.
If all else failsgo ask an "igros"
Moshe,
ReplyDelete"Besides for this whole Nosi thingee being an unknown term in the last thousand plus years, since the days of Reish Galusa"
is their a Issur to create a new term, Are you on an approval board for Titles?
Chabad have a "Nosi Hador" that gets Hakofos and aliyos.They are convinced that this is normal.
ReplyDeleteFunny, if it wasn't so sad.
Somebody did mention that they are on kool-aid,no?
Moshe
ReplyDelete"The Rebbe passed away in 1994, today in late 2010 we are not he same generation by any stretch"
their is a sefer it is called the Zohar, most of Klal Yistroel believe in every word of the Zohar as Torah min Hashomiem,
The Zohar writes that the Tzadik is found on our earth to be mashpia after his death more then he was alive.
Some of my detractors are on a roll today.The cliches abound."Long of beard and short of seichel".My,how original.
ReplyDelete"You are such a stereotypical Lubob that sometimes I think you are just a Snag in disguise looking to make Lubavitch look immature".
Yeh.I'm a regular Clark Kent.
"is their a Issur to create a new term, Are you on an approval board for Titles?"
ReplyDeleteWell, don't you think that it's not very humble?
And btw, I"m not talking "issur" I"m talking stam meshiggeh.
Whoever heard of a Nosi that is not alive??(save urself the quote from Shmishon,k?)
"is their a Issur to create a new term, Are you on an approval board for Titles?"
ReplyDeleteWell, don't you think that it's not very humble?
And btw, I"m not talking "issur" I"m talking stam meshiggeh.
Whoever heard of a Nosi that is not alive??(save urself the quote from Shmishon,k?)
Anon3
ReplyDeleteSo are you "long of beard and short of sechel"?
I think you convinced me..
Moshe
ReplyDelete"Funny, if it wasn't so sad."
I read lately in the name of Rav Grieneman that the holy Chazon Ish had every Chol Hamoed sukkos Gilu Eilyee in the Sukka , not Elijah the prophet but Reb Eilyee of Vilna , alot of halochas were changed after these meetings
isn"t it sad that the whole chazon ish kolel has that belief
anything but to discuss the topic at hand and explain the travesty that was done to Steinsaltz. Go ahead, talk about Nossi haDor, not chas vesholem about Artscroll.
ReplyDelete"The Zohar writes that the Tzadik is found on our earth to be mashpia after his death more then he was alive."
ReplyDeleteSo than Moshe Rabbeinu is the Nosi, or is it Dovid Hamelech???
Such naaronim the Chabadsker attract
Moshe
ReplyDelete"Well, don't you think that it's not very humble?"
who has to be humble?
"anything but to discuss the topic at hand and explain the travesty that was done to Steinsaltz."
ReplyDeleteTravesty?
Steinsaktz shot himself in the rear end.
Than he decided he was Rosh Hasanhedrin,convincing anybody that still had doubts...
You would defend any Lubavitcher whatever they did, even if they axed their wife.
Lubavitchers glaichen titeln
ReplyDeleteNosi Hador,Rosh Hasanhedrin,Self appointed chief rabbis etc..
Lovely, humble people.
Really
Sheldon
ReplyDeleteI realize your tactic by throwing a bone Miller and Touger, and knowing exactly their schedules.Do you have the schedule of Kaplun and Shochet and all other?
"Go ahead, talk about Nossi haDor, not chas vesholem about Artscroll."
ReplyDeleteElegant way to get out of discussing this Lubavitch psychosis that affects all of them Meshichist and non Meshichist alike.
But we know they cannot handle "issues"
The Sanhedrin was 20 years after the Shas ban. Oh wait! Maran had a "veitteh kook," right?
ReplyDeleteSchochat wasted his talent on books that are of little interest and affect.
ReplyDeleteTzavoas Harivosh.Nu.Wonderful.Is that the only sefer that was missing??
Moshe,
ReplyDelete"Than he decided he was Rosh Hasanhedrin,convincing anybody that still had doubts..."
didn"t he back out when he realized that it his not 100% in line with halacha, as Rashi said Hoida Veloi Boish
On the other hand The geonie hador Rav Eliashev and Rav Kanievsky still did not close for good the Sherarith Hechsher even after it was caught in multiple scandals, they forced Mir Yerushaliem to eat it eventough most bnie torah considered it chazer, obviously they had to vouch for the Kevoid hatorah of Masie Yodev of the Nosi Hador of Degel Hatorah
"I realize your tactic by throwing a bone Miller and Touger, and knowing exactly their schedules"
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately there are very few others.
Wait....Aren't these two top notch Lubavitchers Baalei Teshuva??
Yup!
Nothing wrong,actually very commendable,but just proves that Lubavitch have hardly anyone else.
Sad.So many yeshivas, so few knowledgeable people??
Oh, forgot Tougers rebbitzen, also does a nice job.
Lubavitch is so devoid of any baalei daas that guys who joined late are the top knackers.
"Oh wait! Maran had a "veitteh kook," right?"
ReplyDeleteYup.
Should we discuss vous R'Velvel hot gezugt in the early 50's??
Moshe
ReplyDelete"Schochat wasted his talent"
said who?
"Tzavoas Harivosh.Nu.Wonderful.Is that the only sefer that was missing??"
not after the book Rav Shach on Hagoda
"On the other hand The geonie hador Rav Eliashev and Rav Kanievsky still did not close for good the Sherarith Hechsher even after it was caught in multiple scandals, they forced Mir Yerushaliem to eat it eventough most bnie torah considered it chazer, obviously they had to vouch for the Kevoid hatorah of Masie Yodev of the Nosi Hador of Degel Hatorah"
ReplyDeleteAbsolute,utter rubbish as the Brits say.
If you want we can discuss matzav hakashrus in Kahn Tzivo
yawwwwwnnnnnn
ReplyDeleteI hate Johnny Come Latelies who think they just discovered America with their 10th grade reyd
ok, Moshe, time for supper. don't forget to scrub those hands.
Moshe
ReplyDeleteYou mean the lie that he said after the first mamar that the rebbe wants to be moshiach?
its intersting till the creation of Degel nobody ever knew about this vort
"You would defend any Lubavitcher whatever they did, even if they axed their wife."
ReplyDeleteAs long as he had a beard and drank Cholov Yisroel.
Lol
"its intersting till the creation of Degel nobody ever knew about this vort"
ReplyDeleteEven your hero Sholom Volpe, baal hachaloimes yedaber sholom, writes this story
Moshe
ReplyDelete"Lubavitch is so devoid of any baalei daas that guys who joined late are the top knackers."
you are right since Mangel joined Lubavich in the 40's and Mindel joined in the 30's and did not learn by the Alter rebbe in Liadi
Hirshel
ReplyDeletewhat happened today in the lakewood asylum? the loonies are running amok. It seems like the conservative Governer Christy, closed down the facility for budgetary reasons .
Moshe
ReplyDelete"if you want we can discuss matzav hakashrus in Kahn Tzivo"
I thought CH people are all Frie by now,they have no kashrus at all, I heard they only drink Chulov Yisroel with vodka with big macs on Stiensaltz gemoras.Their is no ting what to discuss.
Uh oh....
ReplyDeleteLubavitchers don't want to discuss Nosi Hador,Igros,Atsmus...
They do want to discuss "chidushim" like eating an issur derabonon is WORSE than an issur deoraysa!!
Landau from Bnei Brak hot ess "kloor bavizen" in a shabos hagodol drusheh.
Nobody should be mezalzel in the Chbdsker, they have manyunheard of chidishim.
Moshe
ReplyDelete"Even your hero Sholom Volpe, baal hachaloimes yedaber sholom, writes this story"
Gut Gezugt Wow
Anon,
ReplyDelete"Lubavitchers don't want to discuss Nosi Hador,Igros,Atsmus..."
would you like to discuss it? or you are stating a fact?
Anon
ReplyDelete"Landau from Bnei Brak"
who is that? some driver for egged? are you related to the bus driver? how should we know him,
Schneur,
ReplyDeleteCome back soon.
Please.
Siz zeyer biter do afn blog.
Bou mayim ad nofesh.
Ad mosai?
Is today some sort of yeshiva ketana holiday? The rotzers are out in force with some new "luminaries" coming up in the ranks.
ReplyDeleteThe tragedy of it all is az nit do mit vemen tzu reiden.Talking to the professional haters is a brocha livatoleh.Why bother.
Snag...Yes R. Scherman does say that Reb Yaakov encouraged the project and said he would write a haskama at the appropriate time. Yes, Rabbi Scherman says he is a talmid of both RYK and RGS. Very nice. He doesn’t say as far as I have read what were the contributions made by each to his torah education. So to prove your suggestion we should ask were RYK’s talmidim involved and if so who may there be? Second are there any features in Reb Yaakov's derech halimud that are reflected in this translation and commentary? I’m flying without radar here, but my intuition is no to both questions. The answers are out there, let someone who knows speak up.
ReplyDelete"Talking to the professional haters is a brocha livatoleh.Why bother."
ReplyDeleteThose were pretty much the Rebbe's answers to Rav Tzvi Kahana on the matter.
So, one of our luminaries above points us to a recreated excoriation page written by Maran and signed by latter day gedolim when they were still katanim (R. Elyashiv, R. Kanievsky, among others). Do the living signing rabbonim still see Steinsaltz as a ba'al kefirah? Is there a re-approbation of the old letter? If not, what changed?
היוצא לנו מכל זה
ReplyDeletecharacter assasination is 100% ok as long as it's some Lubab you kill, and as long as the certain organizations' coffers get stuffed as a result thereof
וד"ל
חב"די
ReplyDeletewhy do you think he was attacked just because of Lubavitch, didn't they have just cause?
Also, did Rav Shach know about the Artscoll Dhas that was waiting in the wings??
comment number 200 goes to the Tzig.
ReplyDeleteIt's ironic that the one they chose to assassinate was a man who could care less what they think of him. Come to think of it, most of Maran's target could care less, no, ALL OF THEM!!!