They placed a matzeivoh on the frishe kever of Reb Volf. In Chabad we're makpid to do so at the end of the shivah, no matter what time of year, and no matter if more people would attend at a later, more auspicious time. If you'll look closely you'll notice something at the very top of the stone; a line written in handwritten script, and different from the rest of the wording. What happened was as follows: When Reb Volf's Rebbetzin was niftar some 29 years ago he sent in a nusach for her matzeivoh, referencing himself as only "Reb Menachem Zev HaLevi." The Rebbe added the words you see written here, and added "if he will agree." Reb Volf, of course, of course agreed, and that's how her matzeivoh was engraved. Now, when Reb Volf was niftar, I believe they had a dilemma as to what to write for him, since he so refused to be addressed by such titles, yet the Rebbe wanted him to be addressed as such. So they came up with this very clever idea, with which they'd be mekayem divrei haMes and divrei HaRav shechayim VeKayomim Lo'Ad. I believe we'll see alot more of this in the future in Chabad. A gut feeling, that's all.
The nusach with the Rebbe's additions on the bottom.
Can someone please explain to me a few thing?
ReplyDeleteWhy is the Rayatz, zy"a while Ramash is plain nassi doireinu, is that obfuscation for dead or alive?
If its an acknowledgment of his being in gan eden assuming so, when does one dor end and another begin? There already has been a full dor born after his passing...
In Shemen Sasson (the book and its author aside) there's an interesting letter from Reb Volf about the need to eschew honorifics - in TT in Otwock, Reb Chatshe was Reb Chatsche etc.
ReplyDeletegrainom, you know the answer to your question.
ReplyDeleteGrainom: This is called cognitive dissonance Lubavitch style i.e.words have no relationship to reality.Why-generations aren't being born and unfortunately disappearing as well? This kind of talk makes Lubavitch appear to be a cult of some sort.Sad but true.
ReplyDeleteWhat do you meanthat "divrei the rebbekayomim le'olom"?
ReplyDeleteWhat does that mean?
The idea of being mekayi both wishes, that of the Rebbe's and that of Reb Volf's -- is shocking. It is now etched in stone on the person's matzeivah that his wishes are incompatible with those of his Rebbe! Chas v'sholom to say this on Reb Volf!
ReplyDeleteThe nusach Hamtzeivah is strange, grammatically.
ReplyDeleteKlainer (Chochem)
ReplyDeleteYakov Ovini Loi Meis was not invented in Chabad, in matter of fact I saw lately in the biography of the Yismach Moshe that the Satmar Rov the offical proclaimed "Chachimoe Deyedoye" the anti chasidic sipurim guy, believed that his grandpa the Yismach moshe came home for Shabos after his death.I believe that people that are into Emuna, believe stuff that people that are only believers in name, cant grasp it.Chabad philosophy is that the belief should be explained and brought closest to reality possible. As the famous story of the Alte Rebbe by the Histalkus that he only saw the godly existence of the beams in his room, it is a free country, you can be kofer in some or all the 13 principles too.
Refoel: If you need to ask the question it means you're still normal.
ReplyDeletePlease consult with your friendly neighborhood mashpiah as to how you can exit this dangerous state of mind.Other learned participants on this blog have referred to this therapeutic experience as "drinking the kool-aid."
Good luck and I'll send a copy of your records to your primary care physician. A gutn Shabbes.
Grainom,
ReplyDeletethe Rebbe once cried in the midst of a heated farbrengen that he does not like these Nishmosai Eden on Dem Rebben Dem Shver, why are we sending the Rebbe to our spheres. Today you have 10 of thousands of yidden that have the same problem they would also like to have the Rebbe in Olem Zeh Hatachton. Obviously you are B"H a Gezunter Yid and you are immune from this disease, zolst zien gezunt un shtark
The point is that the rebbe is assumed to be wherever the rayatz is...
ReplyDeleteThey're either both zy"a or...
OK, lets clear this up once and for all for those who can't grasp or don't want to:
ReplyDeleteChabad was left completely and totally bereft on Gimmel Tammuz. No one disagrees, right? It was an irreplaceable loss for them, and many could say with a strong argument, a major loss for Klal Yisroel.
It can be further argued, by many across many aisles, that this generation is just not the same. The post WW2 Rebbes/Gedolim/Chachamim are not made of the same stuff. Leaders of the last generation were largely measured on Torah output and avodah. Today's leaders lead because of seniority or birthright.
So to these Chabadskers, it is inconceivable that the velt should be left in such a state. And they therefore are unwilling to pass a final judgement that this generation is bereft and leaderless. And who says that is? Do you know for certain?
Remember, the Jews gave up just a bit too early by Mattan Torah and turned elsewhere for alternatives. Can you be so judgemental about Jews who are hesitant to do the same?
L'havdil, a very famous singer is having his birthday right about now. There are many who are convinced he is still alive. You might have heard of him: Elvis. This example is not unqiue.
Please, cut the moderate ones some slack here and move on! It says Nossi Doreinu, for heaven's sake! No 'boreinu' or 'elokeinu' etc etc R"L. Remember, for 75% of Lubavitch over a certain age, he was and still is - unless you know of another Nossi with such breite pleitzes that they can replace him with!
The Yenuka from stolin left a very unique tzavaah as to how his chasidim should choose amongst his sons for a mamshich. Ayin shom vetimtza nachas. There is in LA an ainikle mbeis harav who has all the qualities a leader needs. All that is needed to his coronation and success is a bisel bitel mit hachnoa...
ReplyDeleteIts inconceivable that the baal shem, der maggid and the baal hatanya left mamshichim and the rebbe didn't!
who's this eynikel? Reb Yossef Yitzchok Schneersohn?
ReplyDeleteYou mean the insurance salesman?? really???
ReplyDeleteIs aninymous talking about the Rosh?
ReplyDeleteIn the matter of the Stoliner tzavaah [i do not have it in front of me, I'm working from memory];
ReplyDeleteThe tzavaah while very eloquent [I am not a Stoliner Hasid but it left an impression on me],did not give the Hassidim any clear guidance whom to pick from among the many sons.
Thus a Chassidus that for close to 150 years had only one leader per generation found themselves with as many as 5 Stoliner Rebbes-the important ones living in Stolin and another one in Karlin.
In addition the differences among the sons were so sharp that the material possessions of the Yenukah were the subject of a secular court case in an anti-semitic Polish court.
So with all due respect I seem to be missing your point about the Stoliner Tzavaah.
As far as a einikl of the Baal Hatanyah, it seems to me that to give mesirus ratzon to such a person, one would need to know his bachground as a Rav, mashpiah, or shliach of the Rebbe.
Yes,
ReplyDeleteR' YY is an erliche yid. Isn't involved in politics etc...
Yes,
ReplyDeleteR' YY is an erliche yid. Isn't involved in politics etc..
He is also the last person to consider themselves worthy of being a Rebbe, which makes him all the more ראוי.
aby faction of chabad, be it as small as it may be, will have the most stability and ulti,atelly the most success, mibayis umichutz. vhamaivin yavin.
ReplyDeleteJust for some deeper understanding of what's involved at the outset of creating a new leader. The first ingredient is a mature understanding that without a leader, success is much more difficult and intangible.
ReplyDeleteWhen the Rashab was niftar their where opponents to the appointment of the Rayatz, for various reasons. The Rashabs almona famously declared that in times like these, we need a general for a rebbe, not a maskil...
For those old enough to remember, I'm not but have the documents, for many years after the Rebbes ascendancy the mosdos were not under his control. If you sent a Pan, the receipt was from RND and the Pan went to the rebbe... It did not detract from his leadershi or rebbistiva. He acted as a unifying force for those that wanted a unified Chabad, he was mechazek and mekasher the oilam and over time things fell into place. Nobody would suggest, tomorow appoint a new rebbe and hand over all the keys, not that it would hurt, its just not necessary for success. Any transtition needs and takes time.
Isn't sixteen years more than enough time?
ReplyDeleteCan anyone answer what "divrei haRebbe kayimim leolom" means??
ReplyDeleteIts worth noting that in the time of the Rashab moshiach fervor swept Chabad because he was the dor hashvii from the besht... The Rebbe was only the 6th rebbe of Lubavitch, the bal hatanya was after all in liadi, so even with dor hashvii theology there is room for a new rebbe... Who will be the 7th of lubavitch shebilubavitch.
ReplyDeleteAnon 770
ReplyDeleteEverything that you don't like that happened In stolin is going on regardless in Chabad, you might as well fadin having a rebbe out of it.
seems like you lubavs are still in demial and cant deal maturely with moving on and getting a new rebbe. its much easier to be hefker without a rebbe than to be machniya to a new one...
ReplyDeleteI would like to hear more about this Yosef Yitzchak Schneerson mentioned.
ReplyDeleteGrainom said... For those old enough to remember, I'm not but have the documents, for many years after the Rebbes ascendancy the mosdos were not under his control. If you sent a Pan, the receipt was from RND and the Pan went to the rebbe...
ReplyDeleteSorry you're mixing up things. RND retained control of keren maamod and if someone sent money to there, the pan went to the Rebbe and the funds went to to her account. That fund gave monthly stipends to the Rebbe, Rashag, RND, CL, & the upkeep of the library, the house upstairs. She did not control merkos, machne, kehos at all even before yud shvat. Chassidim have a minhag of giving maamod, but most of the outside fundraising was given to moisdos under the Rebbe & chadakov controlled the accounts. It became an issue in the seforim case, when BG tried to prove that maamod controlled the library, therefore RND's will should determine the disposition of the library.
Grainom
ReplyDeletewasn"t there a explicit will of the Reshab that My son should say chasidus which in the chabad world meant being Rebbe. Who needed the Almona/Mother to interfer. I dont know what you are talking about.
Okay lets get on the red eye to LA and check the man out !
ReplyDeleteI do not understand that the Rebbe knew RYY and his brother and their father. He never undertook to groom any of them for anything. So whats the "garatzke" here ?
isn't the red-eye techinically FROM LA to NY only?
ReplyDeleteJust asking.
your eyes can get red from crying about the thought of being mekabel marrus from a living breathing bosor vedom...
ReplyDeletegetting some YoYo with a Schneerson name is very good for Visnitz/Krechnif/ Satmar. Chabad should rather close shop then getting a Calf for rebbe.
ReplyDeleteanything is better than no rebbe / whats going on now
ReplyDeleteGrainom.
ReplyDeleteChabad is not a kehila, it is a torah, if you are not chasidic, then you not Chabad, you could be affiliated with Chabad as Cheshin from the Begatz that is from the AR family, or like Cunins people from the telethon
its not a kehile because its ripped apart by machlokes. period.
ReplyDeleteis Visnitz , Satmar,Bobov,Spinka and Boyan BP, etc.. not a kehila?
ReplyDelete"getting some YoYo with a Schneerson name is very good for Visnitz/Krechnif/ Satmar. Chabad should rather close shop then getting a Calf for rebbe."
ReplyDeleteSilly comment of the year