Concerning this picture, {where the present Rebbe's father is waiting to go to the chupah, (note the kittel under his coat)} here is what I received via email:
"This Rav (or Rebbe) is R' Moshe Shmiel Halevi Rottenberg z"l. He is the son of R' Chaim Shlomo Halevi Rottenberg Z"l (known as the "Shmua Tova") the 2nd Kosoner Rebbe, son of R' Yehosef Zt"l (aka "B'nei Shileishim") the 1st Koson'er Rebbe. R' Moshe Shmuel lived in Debrecen, Hungary up to 1940, when he saw what's looming ahead. He then wrote to his cousin R' Pinches Sholom Halevi who already was in the States for almost 20 years, who then arranged the papers for him, and he then arrived to the United States. He later moved to Eretz Yisroel, where he settled in Bnei Brak and opened a shtiebel there. he was nifter in Bnei Brak in 1974. He left 4 sons. the oldest was R' Osher who was the Koson'er Rebbe of 9th ave (9th Ave cor 50 St. in BP) He was nifter about 1 year ago at age 95. 2nd son was R' Chaim Shlomo the Kozever Rebbe who lived his last few years in the Forshay area of Monsey (was succeeded by his son in law Reb Chaim Leibish Rottenberg). 3rd son was R' Mordechai the Salker Rov of Williamsburg. He was killed in a car accident in 1990 at the age of 65. his son is R' Yakov the Salka Rov of Monsey (60 Francis Pl.) The youngest son is R' Mechel, shlita of BP. He is not a Rov nor a Rebbe, and his children are Bobover Chasidim. Reb Moshe Shmiel was a nephew and brother in law or the Kosoner Rebbe, the "ohr moleh" z"l hy"d. R' Yisroel Tzvi (the "Ohr Moleh")was the younger brother of his father R' Chaim Shlomo, and he also married (twice) the daughter of this brother. So this made the ohr moleh an uncle and brother in law to this R' Moshe Shmiel.
I Hope that gives you the info you needed. if not please contact me again."
Behind the Kossoner Rebbe one can see R' Avrohom Yehoshua Heschel of Kopycznitz, who was an uncle of the chosson, according to the mazkir.
Behind the Kossoner Rebbe one can see R' Avrohom Yehoshua Heschel of Kopycznitz, who was an uncle of the chosson, according to the mazkir.
The Mazkir wrote:
"Lastly, I am also attaching:
"a picture of the late Rebbe’s tisch at the chasunoh of his son R’ Nuchem (the present Rebbe’s father) – there are many Rebbes there who are all cousins – in answer to one comment, it was not the norm back then for cousins who were not father/son/brother to wear shtreimelach at a relative’s simchah like it has become today;"
"Note the picture of the Kallah, the present Rebbe’s late mother, coming to visit and sit with the Rebbes at their table, something that was certainly accepted back then but has been erased today with revisionism)"
At the wedding: Second from right is Reb Menachem Nachum Yosef Twersky of Loyev-Miripol who lived in Chelsea, Massachusetts. Second left is Reb Mendelle Chodorov. He was a BIL of the Vishever Rov, Reb Mendelle Hager, who was a SIL by his father, Reb Mottele Chodorov of Tolne-Vizhnitz. Reb Mottele was a SIL of the Imrei Boruch of Vizhnitz, father of the "Ahavas Yisroel." 3rd left is (IIRC) The Skverrer Rebbe of the Bronx, and later in Tel-Aviv, Reb Itzikel Twersky, a cousin of Reb Yaakov Yosef. Flanking the Chosson are his father, with shtreimel, and Reb Moshe'le Schneerson-Twersky (Kaydanov-Tomashpol) of Crown Heights. Behind The Zhviller Rebbe is his son, Rabbi Boruch Korff, IIRC.
Too many Rebbes and Gutte Yidden to count. Most of them are listed in the above captions already. Imagine a table like that by the one of the big chasunas today. I mean the decorations...
- a picture of the late Rebbe’s Ohel in Boston. (Not sure if this on the Yohrtzeit, or if it's a nesiah to Kivrei Tzadikim on stam a day. Not a bad crowd, either way)
Picture #4 is inccorectly identified - Far Right is not the Skvira Machnovker Rebbe. The second from right is Menachem Nachum Yosef Twersky of Loyev-Miripol who lived in Chelsea,
ReplyDeletePicture #3- The Kallah is seated due to the sheva brachos being said - See the becher at the table - this was the custom in those days.
ReplyDeleteThis was the kalls who it was questionable if she was religious at the time of the wedding? In a kiruv chasunah all is mutar!
ReplyDeleteI don't want to derail from attention of this fascinating post for its many facets , but it would be fare to invite the readers to please point out who was to credit (or to blame) for these changes to the right that is pointed out many times, that in todays chasidic circles it is unacceptable, I would assume that such changes didnt happen by itself so hwo was instumentel in revloutionising such behavior
ReplyDeleteAchshere,
ReplyDeleteNothing changed by chasidim-chasenes were always with mechitse.Kale comes in only for sheva bruches.
Litvakes became more religiose-in der heim eating was mixed (NOT DANCING-ladies did not dance in Lite)
I don't know exactly how but Reb Moshe Shmiel of Koson was a Zvehiller Einikel or Eidem, he therefore had the names Mordechai (Salker whom I remember as if I just saw him as a child I loved him) and Yechiel Mechel.
ReplyDeleteThe one on the left of the Miropeler Rebbe is Reb Yosef Kelemer who was a SIL of Reb Yisroel Gutman Rav of Kremnitz who lived in BP they were Besht decedents.
on the picture #5 1-1/2 from right is the above mentioned Reb Yisroel Gutman.
ReplyDeleteReb Moshe Shmiel the Kosone Rebbe was the son in law of Rabbi Yackov Rottenberg the Rav of Kozove (small town in Galicia near Lemberg) Reb Yakov's Rebetzin was the daughter of Reb Mordechai of Zvhil, so he was a first cousin to Reb Yakov Yisroel of Zvhil.
ReplyDeleteWith all due respect, seriously, kvodom bimkomom munachim, and zicher there is "teshuva" even for tzadikim, I understand and respect the mehalech of parnasa meyigeeya kapuv, college, working etc. Beautiful. But a rabbi in a conservative temple is a kaalus on any scale... especially in those days when it was total apikursus.... (as opposed to ammeraatzuss)... Maybe the Mazkir would be able to elaborate a bit more. He said that the Rebbe didn't compromise of frumkeit at all. And remarkablly )if I understood correctly) he made them orthodox!? How did that jive with his temple? Did he not use the microphone? Separate seating? Kosher? etc. etc. I ask this with derech eretz ki torah hi velilmod ani tzarich! How did he manage? What did he do? Details!
ReplyDeleteY"T Sheini
Was there an active relationship whith the zviller rebbe of LA?
ReplyDeleteFarkert, there where many "orthodox" rabonim in the early years who made a living as conservative clergy...
ReplyDeleteSo there is a greyse rebbe in Boston mit a sach yichus un Teyere ,(mita sheinem begged und a lange bord) vifel saldaten hot er ? achutz dem gabbe ?
ReplyDeleteSchneur
ReplyDeleteDidn't this rebbe publish for a while some local boston journal?
Still publishes the weekly Jewish Advocate, which has weekly ads for all sorts of non Orthodox temples, but is an informative weekly for Boston's Jewish population.From time to time the Rabbanit Roth-Korff also writes there.
ReplyDeleteHe has also published a siddur and a book of Torah thoughts with a photo of his zaida on the dust jacket.
Boston was home to a good number of Rebbes prior to World War 2 the only one who left a legacy was the late Bostoner rebbe Reb levi Yitzchak ZT"L who accomplished much there. (shul, mikve, Kiruv, kashruth, cheder, adult ed).
Lubavitch has also been very active there in the last 30 years (although they were active even earlier) with tremendous success.
In recent months the Talner Beth Medrash closed there , ending that dynasty's long standing connection with Boston.
We need an update explaining and confirming that/if talna closed and why....
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone know how r levi yitzchok horowitz got along with all these rebbes and especially with JB?
Who was the zviller rebbe of los angeles?
ReplyDeletehttp://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze2nb56/talner/
ReplyDeleteSchneur
ReplyDeleteSorry to hear that Tolner Shull closed, I used to visit it at Shalash Seudas by the Rebbe Reb Isadore, it was then a very vibrant shul, and the Rebbe's Shmussen were beautiful with a lot of nice biurim on Meor Einiem
Anybody out there know who was the זיווג ראשון of Rebbitzen Roth - Korff ?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous.
ReplyDeleteIf I wrote that there was a new Lubavitcher rebbe you would need and should get confirmation. For the closure of the Talner BM you can take my word for it.
The current rabbi (rebbe?) rabbi M. Twersky(grandson of the rav) of YU has been communting to Brookline from time to time and lives in North Rivedale, NY. The BM will be relocated there. There have been at least 3 articles about this fact in the JEWISH ADVOCATE.This is a tiny minyon , so its loss will not really be noticeable except to its mispalelim. Rebebtzin Atarah Twersky will also be relocating to North Riverdale.
The RAv (what's this JB baloney how about just a little kavod Haorah ? ) respected Rav Levi Yitzchok and they cooperated together on various projects.
The Talner was the Rav's mechutan so there isa relationship. The other I do not know about or would rather not touch.
The Lubavitcher rebbe did tell many Boston BT's - when in Boston see the Bostoner rebbe -, and the Rayaatz supposedly told Anash in Boston in 1929 to see the Talner for advise or so some claim.
Just thought I would mention that the new Bostoner Rebbe R. Naftoli of Brookline seems to be a capable man and lives there year round.
ReplyDeleteBoston has over 135,000 Jews with tens of thousands of Jewish students there on a transient basis. Thus there is room there for Lubavitch, and Chabad Houses in many smaller communities as well as in Brighton, Mainonidies, Bostoner rebbe the Kollel, and other rebebs like R. Korff
While all these groups are doing much (and let me include the 3-4 large MO shuls there) most of Boston Jewry has no shaychus to traditional Judiasm and is intermarrying from day to day .
The greater Boston area which probably has 150,000 jews only has about a dozen Orthodox shuls excluding the Chabad houses. I think the whole area has 3 kosher meat markets.
Regarding The Bostoner Rebbe Reb Levi Yitzchok with the Rav the rebbe had tremendous respect for the rav the rebbe told told me the following story that after Rav Shlomo Heiman was niftar there was talk that the Rav will become rosh hayeshiva in torah vdaas but it did not work out because torah vdass need that the rav take upon a certain condition which the rav could not fufill afterwords the rav remarked to the rebbe torah vdass is a yeshiva without a rosh hayeshiva in YU there is a rosh hayeshiva without a yeshiva
ReplyDeleteSchneur
ReplyDelete"and the Rayaatz supposedly told Anash in Boston in 1929 to see the Talner for advise or so some claim."
I am not refuting anything you wrote, but I heard from other chernobel einiklech unnice stuff on the Bostoner Tolner(father of Prof. Isadore), that he was a nobody,
Eventough he has nice printed hesped by the Bostner Reb Yoshe Ber.
What year did he die?
Schneur
ReplyDelete"Rebebtzin Atarah Twersky will also be relocating to North Riverdale."
thats the end of the Ravs reign in Boston,its a shame, the rav and the intellectual Boston were intertwined
who will run Maimonides school?
The first Bostoner Rebbe (R' Levi Yitzchok's father) stayed in Boston only a short time and didn't get along with the Rebbes who were there when he was a new rebbe - he went to New York and his son R' Moshe became Bostoner after him and the second son R' Levi Yitzchok didn't really return to Boston until they were all nifter.
ReplyDeleteThe Zvlr Rebbe before he was rebbe and went to conservitive synagogues arranged for changes before he went there, like he never used the microphone which he made them turn off for Shabbos. After he left the one in Providence Rabbi Jake Rubenstein (who was Presedent of the RCA) became rabbi there).
As for the Zvlr Rbtzn (Shomrei Emunim's dotter) she was in her 20s when they married but this was her first zivug - the SE Rebbe marries his daughters off later.
Reb Chaim shloime the son of Reb Moshe Shmiel was succeeded by his son Reb Tovia Rottenberg Kozeva Rebbe of Flatbush NY.
ReplyDeleteZvil LA is a maternel grandson from r shlomke
ReplyDelete