Yad VaShem photo
So now we have another liberated young girl telling us how awful life was in the frum community. And she's an "advocate" now too. And again it's the Forward that's so eager to publish her story. Correct me if you will, but in your opinion; is the Lakewood style of marriage considered "arranged?" Is going out 10-12 times for 4-6 hours at a time "forced?" If her marriage was abusive then she needs to get out, but why drag us all into this mess and make it the fault of her family and community that she fell in like that? How many countless times do we hear the exact same - and even much worse - stories with childhood sweethearts or couples that knew each other forever and married for "love?" And here she admits that there was never any physical abuse, only the threat thereof. How often do we see women of non-arranged marriages deteriorate into battered women? What happens to those who leave the fold that they cannot think rationally anymore and just make up stories like little children would? Again, I cannot speak about her situation with her husband as far as what happened behind closed doors, but I can and will speak about her ideas about marriage in our communities, and the idea that somehow we need to be "unchained!" How the Forward still maintains that it is non-biased and has "journalistic integrity" is beyond me. No matter how much they consult with Avi Shafran to get the "other side" of the story the damage is done. He just sounds like a defense lawyer who gets paid to defend the crook.
I wonder y every one ."loves". the frimmeh
ReplyDeletelol
cuz they r Odón maseh zimri imvakshim sucher kepinches
yosef
יישר כח פאר'ן סניגוריא על ישראל.
ReplyDeleteדאס וואס די פרייע און די לינקע שרייבין און טראכטען אזוי ארט מיר נישט אזוי פיל, אבער דער פראבלעם איז אז עס קריכט אויך אריין ביי די גאר פרומע, וואס ביסלאכוויז הייבען אן צו גלויבען אלץ וואס זיי הערען און ליינען, און הייבען אן מיינען אז אנדערע זענען אפשר בעסער פון אונז, פיינער, איידעלער פון אונז. מיר פרומע דארפען געדיינקען און האלטען פאר'ן אויגען אז פרומע אידין זענען די גאר גאר בעסטע מענטשען אף דער וועלט. רחמנים ביישנים גומלי חסדים. וואס באמת דאג'ן און טאן איינער פאר די אנדערע. און טוען מעשים, נישט בלויז פאלשע ווערטער און שמייכלען.
ליטווישער יונגערמאן (המאמין באלקי ישראל)
“Fraidy Reiss was married at the age of 19 to a man she despised. Outwardly, she had a choice. The ultra-Orthodox matchmaker she went to gave her two men to choose from. She went on a couple of dates. She desired neither. But as a girl perilously close to 20 in the Hasidic community of Brooklyn , she finally agreed to marry one.”
ReplyDeleteI can’t say this paragraph is entirely untrue. But it sure gives the wrong impression. For starters, FR was introduced to her husband by her boss, not a matchmaker. And I know that she had dates, exact number unknown. FR was not from Brooklyn ’s ‘Hasidic Community’, she was not Hasidic an barely even Yeshivish. She was looking for a working boy, going to movies etc. With one exception, all her brothers and brothers in law did not have beards by their weddings. Nor did she go to a Hasidic school. YOB is not Chassidish. More importantly, a neighbor once mentioned to a friend that she thought FR could do better that her husband Chucky Reiss. To which the friend replied “ true, but she is so crazy over him”.
The idea that at 19 she was an old maid forced to grab what she could is laughable
“A week into the marriage, Reiss’s husband woke up late and, in a blind rage, punched a hole in the bedroom wall. It was the beginning of nearly 15 years of living with a man whose constant physical threats against her — though he never actually beat her — came to dominate Reiss’s daily life”.
I can’t say this is untrue. Only she and her ex husband know the truth. But I do know that this was never a reason which she gave years ago for ending her marriage. And while it is possible to coincide with verbal abuse, her ex was crazy over her.
“It was in 2011, after her ultimately successful struggle to leave her marriage, get a college degree and work as a journalist and, later, as a private investigator, that Reiss resolved to help women going through what she had experienced”
I don’t know what she means by “struggle to ….get a collage degree”. Her husband financed her entire collage career. She has no student debt! (She has siblings with collage degrees also). She actually used to work for the Asbury Park Press covering Lakewood . She was allegedly removed because of her consistently anti Orthodox tirades.
“This psychological pressure can be overwhelming. At one point, when Reiss herself was alone and still financially dependent on her husband, she asked her mother if she and her children could move in with her. Her mother turned and silently walked out of the room.”
I do not believe for a second that she told her mother that she husband was abusing her and her mother refused to let her move in. Same for most of her siblings.
“There she stopped wearing a head covering, and her family shunned her. “I have one sister who kept in touch long enough to tell me that the others were considering sitting shiva for me as if I had actually died,” Reiss said. Out of all the people she knew in the first 30 years of her life, Reiss is in contact with one: that same sister, whom she calls once a year, on the anniversary of her nephew’s death. “Sometimes she picks up, sometimes she doesn’t,” Reiss said.”
Of all the lies in this article, this is the worst. A vicious slander. Her family (with one exception) would love to keep in touch. She has refused any and all contact with them, including her mother, who has cried many nights over it. As she told many people, “ I feel like I lost one of my children”. FR has cut herself of from any contact with any of her old friends and family. And there is no such a thing as sitting shiva when someone becomes irreligious. She actually recounted the story years ago. But then it was one sibling. Now it became the entire family! Added for dramatic effect!
ReplyDeletePoint is that Fraidy Reiss is entitled to her ideas about the Orthodox community. But she is not entitled to rewrite history. And the willingness of the Forward to swallow all her lies with out (it seems) to make even the simplest effort to find out the truth speaks volumes about the world view of the Forward.
Don't know the story but "hasidic" in the general press is easily interchangeable with "chareidi"
ReplyDeleteSo the claim of her being "hasidic" is not really off
Btw, in the greater scheme of things is there such a big difference between "chasidic" or "yeshivish"?
Not really
Hirshel,
ReplyDeleteI think it's in order to offer consolation to one of the noted commenters here, R'Isaac Balbin, on the passing of his father R'Shaul(Soniek)Balbin z"l
See his blog for the shloshim derusheh he said the other day
Thanks, Shulem. I had no idea.
ReplyDeleteReb Isaac, מן השמים תנוחמו
"Btw, in the greater scheme of things is there such a big difference between "chasidic" or "yeshivish"?
ReplyDeleteNot really"
Are you nuts? She meet her husband dozens of times prior to getting engaged. Is that forced!
I could personally say that 99% of this article is not true (I won't say 100% just cause some of the names & dates are correct but not one of the stories). Anyone who knows Chucky knows that he wouldn't hurt a fly. These are not the reasons she stated when she moved out. Her story changes every day. And anyone around at the time knows she ran after him to marry him. "forced" are you kidding me? this girl has real pathological liar tendencies.
ReplyDelete"Are you nuts? She meet her husband dozens of times prior to getting engaged. Is that forced!"
ReplyDeleteI don't know the details, I was addressing if there are major differences between "yeshivish" or "chasidish" in the greater scheme of things, as in when she is called "hasidic".All I meant was that for a non religous Jew or a non Jew all "chareidim" are called "chasidic"
For all I know this could be another story like Satmar chasidesteh berkowitz, who just wanted to write a catchy bestseller.
ReplyDeleteBUT, there sure are major problems by the frimmeh
"Btw, in the greater scheme of things is there such a big difference between "chasidic" or "yeshivish"?
ReplyDeleteNot really"
Chasidim- girls get engaged as young as 16
Yeshivish- getting engaged under 19 is highly unusual
Chasidim-frown on women driving
Yeshivish- do not
Chaisdim-have more stringent tznius demands
Yeshivish- have more lax tznius demands
Chasidim- frown on higher education for all genders
Yeshivish-only frown on it for the male gender
Chasidim-stay at home moms, no career, are the norm
Yeshivish- OT, PT,ST,PA,Graphic designer, home-based or actual business is teh norm for women. Not everyone can marry the daughter of a Gvir but EVERYONE needs their ten-fifteen years in Kollel. So its מוכרח for the women to be gainfully and even lucratively (self-) employed
Chasidim- courtship is 1-2 beshows. Very little choice of spouse for either gender. What's love got to do with it? Nothing until, hopefully, after the Chuppah
Yeshivish-sliding more and more in the chasidic direction but still far much longer courtships with actual get-out-of-the-house-and-enjoy-yourselves, get familiar with one another dates. Engagements are easier to break as Tenoim are seldom written until the couple is at Ateres Blank. pre-marital affection is not unheard of. also on the Left wing of the Yeshivisha spectrum (YU) pre-nups are written making actual failed marriages easier to end as well.
Among certain chasidim (Ger and some radical Breslovers et al) females are essentially looked upon as evil incarnate.
In short although a secular person would look at both groups as repressive and misogynistic the Yeshivisha are far less so than the Chasidisha.
Bray,
ReplyDeleteto some of your points:
No chasidic girls get married at 16,
*many chasidic girls from boro park, get college education via the frum programs.
But, generally my point was that to the non chareidi jews, chasidic and yeshivish are the same.
The differences you"ve pointed out are not a big deal from the point of view of an outsider
Shulem. I speak from first hand knowledge. I have a Chasidic nephew whose bride was legal jail-bait 16 when they got engaged.
ReplyDeleteOutsiders are not concerned with the Narcicism of small differences. I am. I was not able to play Fraidy Reiss video on my computer but by what I've gathered from comments here and elsehwere she was Yshivish lite growing up in Flatbush not Chasidish heavy growing up in Monroe.
Which is why, even without first hand knowledge of the case as some commenters here seem to have, her accusations ring false. She sounds like a bitter women prone to huge exaggeration if not outright slander.
Bray of Fundie
ReplyDelete"Chasidim- girls get engaged as young as 16
Yeshivish- getting engaged under 19 is highly unusual"
no chasidic girl gets engaged by 16...
Cbray,
ReplyDelete"chasidim- frown on higher education for all genders
Yeshivish-only frown on it for the male gender"
Incorrect. This is one of Rabbi Mattis S.'s pet subjects. He shries against girls going to college usually once a year and tries to make a big tummel about it and then quietys down when he sees his position is untenable. Maybe you meant, "Yeshivish frown upon it but tolerate it as a neccesary evil."
"Chasidim-stay at home moms, no career, are the norm
Yeshivish- OT, PT,ST,PA,Graphic designer, home-based or actual business is teh norm for women. Not everyone can marry the daughter of a Gvir but EVERYONE needs their ten-fifteen years in Kollel. So its מוכרח for the women to be gainfully and even lucratively (self-) employed'
The average today has gone way down and it's probably 3-5 years. Only the biggest metzuyanim (or most yeshivish) stay in kollel full-time for 10 years - maybe 5-7% tops. And Chucky R. wasn't in kollel for even a day (as far as i recall) he's a great guy but not really "a learning boy" or "yeshivish".
Rabbosai, you don't get it. The stuff she is saying is true, even if it isn't true about her (and how am *I* supposed to know that it isn't true? Maybe what you guys are saying isn't true?).
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone really doubt, for example, that in the frum community it can't happen that a wife feels threatened by her husband, gets a restraining order against him, and then rabbonim intimidate her into getting it lifted? Such things can and do happen. We have medieval attitudes - and we are proud of them - but that comes with us living life how we want, and also the criticism of it.
the point is not whether or not it can happen that a frum lady takes out a RO against her husband. It's whether or not - like she says - frum girls are forced into marriage, as she supposedly was. And this is where she's lying.
ReplyDeleteNo she isn't, because many are. The whole b'show zach is in its best case scenario half coerced. That she isn't from such a community may mean she has lied about herself, but the sort of thing she j'accuses? It's all real, don't kill the messenger.
ReplyDeleteif the messenger is a liar than you should "kill the messenger". since she lied about her marriage, you can assume she is lying about everything else.
ReplyDeleteBut she isn't, Dovy. We all know she isn't, and you also know it.
ReplyDelete