(Bruriah's father, HaRav Yitzchok Hutner, z"l)
Bruria Hutner David, (1936 - ) daughter of Rabbi Isaac Hutner, is the current dean of Beth Jacob Jerusalem (commonly known as BJJ), a prestigious religious girls seminary located in Jerusalem, Israel. Known as Rebbitzen David, she was on one of the planes, along with her husband and parents, which were hijacked by the Black September terrorists in 1970.
Dr. Bruria Hutner David received her doctorate in philosophy from Columbia University in 1971. Her dissertation dealt with The dual role of Rabbi Zvi Hirsch Chajes: Traditionalist and Maskil. Her dissertation demonstrates a thorough mastery of the source material, and deals with R. Chajes relationships both in the world of Haskallah as well as in the traditional world of Orthodox Judaism.
(from wikipedia.org)
She's molding the young, impressionable women of tomorrow, a Columbia grad of the 60's?!
Gevald!
You get my drift here?
can you please elaborate? i am missing your intent...
ReplyDeleteThe women have to have a good job to support their husbands in Kollel. There are only so many Bais Ya'akov teaching jobs out there.
ReplyDeleteanonymous
ReplyDeleteto elaborate:
1) a Rosh Yeshiva of Rav Hutner's caliber allows his daughter to attend COLUMBIA, a hotbed of radicalism, in the 60's,
2) She is then the dean of the primary seminary for girls
Rebetzin David is one of the most respected and knowledgable woman of the orthodox world. She is a powerhouse, a talmid chacham and she runs the premiere women's learning institue available for Jewish girls today. I don't know what Rab Hutner's opinions were on secular education and the evil influences of college life, but I doubt he had to worry abou HIS daughter going off the derech because of the liberal hippies around her. Give me a break- do you not believe that great people, who are strong in there convictions, can attend college for the purpose of getting a solid education without also picking up the trash around it? All the more, the skills she learned in doing a PhD in a school as radical and as challenging as Columbia served her well, because BJJ is now the only orthodox women's school where the education is take seriously, where the future women of Klal Yisrael are tought that they have the potential to achieve more than a great kugel recipe. (Michlalah is also very rigurous and academic, but it isn't nearly as strict in it's absolute adherance to strict orthodox tradition.) Lubavitch would have benefited greatly from a similar figure--our education system sorely lacks the academia and rigurous study that the misnagdim were able to extract from secular learning without compromising on Judaism. And to answer friendly anon's post: lubavitch's attitude that being a teacher is the worst cop out is a huge mistake. Look at how our chinuch system has suffered. The talented, smart people go into outreach and the leftovers stay behind to educate the next generation (not everyone, i know- just general attitude). This cycle does not last long... it's already falling apart! The BJJ girls who return to the states to become (gasp!) bais yaakov teachers are very fine educators and theyre very well versed in there subjects. So HT what's the problem with that?
ReplyDeleteHT,
ReplyDeleteIt looks like you're to abscure - people keep missing your point...
oops, that should read OBSCURE
ReplyDeleteHT, if you are attempting to show rav hutner hipocracy about college because he condemned the rebbe but attended himself and maybe allowed his daughter to attend...then you made a point....but it appears that you are discrediting his daughter because she went to college..and then infered that she shouldn't be running an authentically jewish intitution. you are inadvertintly discrediting the rebbe how much more so.....to elaborate using your template of presentation:
ReplyDelete1) the frediker rebbe allowed his son in law as did his parents, to attend college in berlin?, a hotbed of radical ideas and assimilation for yidden who were really frum
2) The rebbe molded impressionable youngsters of tommorrow and balle tshuva, a college graduate from the a radical german university of the '30s?
gevald!
do you get my drift?
ht, rather, do you get your drift?
ReplyDeletemelava malka
ReplyDeletenot obscure, I'm just way too deep for you guys.....
:-D
N, my dear friend:
ReplyDeleteTHAT'S EXACTLY MY POINT!!
Generalizations cannot be made here or anywhere!
I understand that Rebbetzin David is all that everybody says she is and I truly respect her strength and position. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy!
People say that it can't be that the Rebbe is so-and-so because he attended college, is that sensible?
so are we saying that we need to send our educators to Ivy league schools (if they'll get accepted) so that they can learn to teach?
ReplyDeleteHT, the post is not deep...if the post is set up to talk about you and your manner of thinking..you succeeded. If the intent was to focus on Rav hutner..it failed. Why because your method of presentation becomes the focus and gets posters off target....its also possible that r hutner didn't want her to go and yet she did..and he was pleased years later with the end product...so maybe he wasn't such a big hipocrate?
ReplyDeletea chaim berliner and a bjj girl are on a date, when they pass a homeless man on the street.She says "reb.david told me when i say she lo asanee goy i should not have him in mind, but rather i should think of the president of a bank with a brooks brothers suit , a expensive tie, and a lexus" a few minutes later they pass a homeless woman and the boy says"rabbi shechter told me when i say she lo asanee isha i should not have her in mind, but rather i should have rebitzen david in mind"
ReplyDeleteN
ReplyDeleteyou're full of maybes.
My point was to focus on the hypocrisy of the general Yeshivah world.
Rav Hutner is for another time.
Please don't attack my writing style, I'm a very sensitive guy and take personal offense to personal insults.
Amshi
ReplyDeleteGEVALDIG!
Amshinover,
ReplyDeletenice :-)
Amshi, crude, but funny joke.
ReplyDeleteTo good to be yours obviously
who named their child Bruriah 70 years ago?!
ReplyDeleteAnon1,
ReplyDeleteMy point was not to degrade the teaching profession. All I was saying, after speaking to a Bais Yakov principal, is that there are dozens of girls finishing seminary every year and applying for the SAME jobs, and if you don't have connections...
"Hirshel Tzig said...
ReplyDeleteN
you're full of maybes."
if i don't know that specific loshan hora is true, then i must conclude thats its most likely false. I'm funny that way..capish?
HT said:
"My point was to focus on the hypocrisy of the general Yeshivah world."
its not logical to take an anecdotal possible hipocracy and understand that as a general rule... call me funny on that one too...
HT said:
"Rav Hutner is for another time."
you posted his picture and this story...are you o.k. HT?
HT said:
"Please don't attack my writing style,"
who attacked where? you are so dramatic!
HT said:
"I'm a very sensitive guy and take personal offense to personal insults."
a chossid can be offended? If you are offended from i wrote (where there is no insult, heaven forfend), can you imagine how everyone feels that you post about.....
what happened to the old N?
ReplyDeleteI want the old N!
What have you done with him?
hirshel
ReplyDeleteno comments from you on http://amshinover.blogspot.com/2005/11/satmar-hakufos.html
Amshi
ReplyDeletejust send me an e-mail if you wanna complain about me not posting.
ht,
ReplyDeletei guess blogging brings out the best in people....
HT
ReplyDeleteI'll tell ya a little secret that my yeshivishe friends won't like.
Rabbi Hutner was somehwhat of an oddity even amongst his Litvishe peers for many reasons.
1) he was a "Peylishe"
2) he was a "Kook-nik"
3) er hut zich gehalten far a "Rebbe"
4) his daughter went to college
5)he made a new torah with his shmuesen full of Maharal etc.
so I'm not sure he's the guy to pick on
i seem to think that i saw somewhere that his father was a lubav, and that he didn't quite shake all of his affinity for lubav...i'll check my source material...
ReplyDeleteHutner, Lubavitch? no. You mean Ruderman from Baltimore
ReplyDeleteHT,
ReplyDeleteI seem to recall a story about someone leaving Tomchei Temimmim because the Kasha wasn't that great. Have you heard a similar story?
ht, wrong yitchok...you are right...family name was futerfas
ReplyDeleteN
ReplyDeleteFuterfas?
You're confusing him with Kamenecki whose mother or grandmother was a Futerfas (or Puterfas like he calls them) and his zeide forbade him or his father from speaking to his uncles becuase they were Chassidim!!!
We're talking 100 years ago, what was the problem then?!
But then again weren't they cousins? or maybe the Kotlers and Kameneckis were related? I'm confused....
BP
ReplyDeletewhat I can't understand is the fact that all sensational statements made by RAYHK were already made, and yet nobody felt the need to excommunicate him, save for the "Kanoyim". What happened that they all changed their opinion of him decades later?
BP
ReplyDeleteRav HaRoshi = 1921
his passing = 1935
Hutner in Israel = 1929
you using fuzzy math?
I believe what happened was as follows.
ReplyDeleteWhen Rav Hutner's sefer, Toras Hanozir, was first published - in the 1930's - it included a haskomo from Rav Kook, among others.
When it was reprinted many years later (1960's), Rav Kook was no longer with us beguf and the so called Litvishe Yeshiva world had moved to the right, with the increasing Hungarian influence in orthodoxy. So those who reprinted it wanted to remove Rav Kook's haskomo, but leave the others. Rav Hutner's reaction was that if they take out the haskomo of Rav Kook they should take out all the haskomos (either print all of them or take out all of them). Vikach haveh. It was reprinted without any haskomos.
Thanks anon and BP
ReplyDeleteI remember having a yungerman in yeshivah who was a "Chaim Berliner". He would always try to rattle me about Lubavitch. He would go on how RIH would read any and every publication out there.
According to him Rav Hutner was on a mission to immitate the Rebbe in every way yet try to cover up any connection to him.
There was a yungerman who would frequent the Rebbe's farbrengens, who was told by RIH to stop, which he agreed. After a while he was summoned to his office and asked why he continues to go. He denied it. RIH proceeded to pull out a magazine printed by the VATICAN that had an article on the Rebbe and in that article there was a picture of a farbrengen with that yungerman in it!
RIH basically fashioned Chaim Berlin after Chabad with minute differences. The whole inyan of Neginah, Maamorim (although based in Maharal) were all copy-cat acts of Chabad. They even wear Bekishes and Gartlech, the "real ones" do.
Brider. Columbus hot andekt Amerika !!!
ReplyDeleteReb Aron's Daughter the Rebetzin Schwartzman (she and her husband also a rosh yeshiva were divorced) also received a doctorate from Columbia in Pol. Science.
Dos is efsher nach hecher fun rav Hutner !!!
In the USA Jean Joffen was a professor of German and Yiddish. Her husband was the rosh of Bais Yosef in BP.
In Israel Rebbetzin Farbstein of Hevron has a doctorate in Jew. history and wrote a wonderful book about the Religious condition during the Holocaust.
Rabbi Symcha Elberg's rebbetzin was a professor at Hunter (not Hutner) College.
Here at YU we have a fantastic professor Elisheva Carlecach who teaches modern Jewish hsitory whose husband is a rosh and whose father was mashgiach ruchni of HUtner College (Yeshiva Rav Chaim Berlin).
Kvar hitiru Parushim.
Just another note although Hutner was called Itzhak Warshever his family originally was from Lithuania and at some point moved to Warsaw as did many Lithuanian Jews (parts of the Gurari, Zalmanov, Gurevitz, and Shmotkin families amongst them)
Yasher kochachem, Kurenitzer
ReplyDeleteמ'קען דאך נישט שרייבען אלץ אף א מאל
The late
ReplyDeletehave not read this article . rosh yeshiva Rav Moshe Zvi Nerita talmid muvhok ofthe chief rabbi Rav Kuk wrote many seforim about his rebbe. In several of them he alludes to the Rav's relationship to R. Hutner. This allusions are scant and bekittzur, but clearly Neriya interviewed Hutner for the books and Neriya a felt that Hutner did not completely understand the Rav. He brings some interesting anecdotal evidence,
In the SEFER HAZIKARON for the rosh yeshiva Rebbetzin Dr. David offers an excellent biographical essay about her father. It too does not ignore Rav Kuk.
"Just another note although Hutner was called Itzhak Warshever his family originally was from Lithuania and at some point moved to Warsaw as did many Lithuanian Jews (parts of the Gurari, Zalmanov, Gurevitz, and Shmotkin families amongst them)"
ReplyDeleteI heard that there was/were (a) Litvishe neighborhood(s) in Varshe. It was not all Peylish Hassidim there.
There was a famous Rav, Rav Zundel Hutner z"l, in Eisheshok. Yaffa Eliach writes about him in her fine book on that town. Rav Hutner was related to him.
Anyway, the fact is that Rav Hutner grew up in a mixed environment - he was (partially, paternally) of Litvish stock, yet was in an area with mostly (but not totally) Peylisher yidden. So mimeileh he was exposed to different things even in his youth. Re his focus on Maharal - I believe some other Peylisher are/were into that too. When he got older he was exposed to Slabodka where there were 'maamarim' given in form of shmuezen, and then to Rav Kook, who was a mixture of various influences. So he was a complex figure.
To say that "Rav Hutner was on a mission to immitate the Rebbe in every way yet try to cover up any connection to him." and "RIH basically fashioned Chaim Berlin after Chabad with minute differences. The whole inyan of Neginah, Maamorim (although based in Maharal) were all copy-cat acts of Chabad. They even wear Bekishes and Gartlech, the "real ones" do." is overdoing it and sounds like paranoia on basis of a Lubavitcher who thinks 'men ganvet alles fun unz'. There are some similarities, but, on the other hand, RIH was into the GR"A and in YRCB they do certain things biderech haGR"A/ That doesn't sound like copying the Rebbe, does it? ;-)
Re Maamorim and neginah allegedly being copied from Lubavitch - 1) What are maamarim ? Just shticklech Tayreh/machshoveh on an installment plan, in easily digestible portions. Lubavitch has a patent on that ?? And 2) Neginah - No one sings other then Lubavitch ? Neginah is a Lubavitcher invention ? I would venture that was even neginah in places like Slabodka on occasion !
ReplyDeleteWell, what did you expect, he should Chazer Chassidus Chabad?
ReplyDeleteoh please!
ReplyDeleteask any Yeshivishe guy and he'll tell you that YRCB is different! The Rosh Yeshivah there is like a Rebbe.
"ask any Yeshivishe guy and he'll tell you that YRCB is different! The Rosh Yeshivah there is like a Rebbe."
ReplyDeleteAvader it's different than other Litvishe Yeshivas. But that doesn't mean that it's basically a copy of Lubavitch, just disguised, as was alleged above. Maybe he copied stuff from Rav Kook. Some of what is described above sounds like his derech.
I think that the present RY is less like a Rebbe than Rav Hutner.
Tzig,
ReplyDeleteFor your own good, don't start up with R'Hutner.Why....well he was one of the few who really knew Chabad,learned with the Rebbe.....etc...Not like the Lutvackes who were wary of Chabad,mpi hashmua.And..........he disliked Chabad intensly...............He was no 'fremder' to Chasidus, as a youngster he was associated with Ger, the Rebbe even sent for him at the tender age of 15.
Ess dachtzach mir as es iz besser far dir oon far chabad bichlal tzoo schvaygen vehn es kumt tsoo em,der emmes hot ehr doch gevoost foon inner vendig
Anonymous
ReplyDeleteרעד זיך איין, די פאנטאזיעס זענען גוט פאר דיר
מיטאמאל זענען אלע ראשי ישיבות געווארען מומחים אף חב"ד? פון וואנעט זאלען זיי וויסען?
Tzig, vos redst du ? Anonymous (not me) said he was one OF THE FEW who knew Lubavitch well-in other words the others didn't have that kind of intimate knowledge of it that he had.
ReplyDeleteHe takeh learned with the Rebbe and that's what he couldn't handle, that the Rebbe is grois, un er...
ReplyDeleteCompare the pictures of the two at the same stage in life, the Rebbe with a Dashik and full beard, and RIH with a FULL head of hair, almost like a hippie, and a clean, smooooth face.
Chabad, have gotten into their heads, that any succesful Jewish movement is copying them typical delusional self aggrandizement .The real truth is that Chabad is doing a lot of the copying.The whole sending out of a shaliach to open up yeshivas in various towns is a copycat version of Prewar/pre communism Novardok.They set up a vast network of yeshivas all across Poland even in Eretz Yisroel which numbered thousands of talmidim.
ReplyDeleteMany other cases of copying, but a glaring example, which in my opinion has very little actual added value is the 'Rambam yomi' instituted by the Rebbe using R'Meir Shapiro's brilliant innovation of worldwide study.(ein kahn mokom leha'arich..but the Ramba'm learning has little value as a takono for the clal, including women(!?)the Ramba'm is not a sefer you can 'bebbeh')
Is there anything wrong with 'copying'?When it's lehagdil tora, no....but why are Chadskers always accusing others of their own 'sins'?
Funny, a couple of Chabadhouses actually had to get their shaliach to learn a blatt gemorra to say a 'daf hayomi' shiur due to the unbelievable popularity since the massive siyum.
(btw, what is so terrible with Chabad actually being part of 'daf hayomi??SIMPLE answer.....to 'anarken' that anybody else could have come up with a brilliant idea besides the 'Rebbeim' is the greatest 'kefirah' therefore daf hayomi must be bad, since the Rebbe did not think of it
"Compare the pictures of the two at the same stage in life, the Rebbe with a Dashik and full beard, and RIH with a FULL head of hair, almost like a hippie, and a clean, smooooth face. "
ReplyDeleteYou mean a full head of hair almost like a nozir ? After all, er iz geven di michaber fun di sefer Tayras Hanoizr, nein ?
"clean, smooooth face" - you jealous ? ;-) And if he had a "clean, smooooth face" at one time, when he was young - that means he is posul liaylem ? Li nireh that such a thing is a mum oveir (if that) - it goes away when one grows a beard - not a mum kovua.
Who would you rather be teaching Tayreh ? A talmid chochom without a bread or an am haaretz with one ?
Afilu a tzig hot a bord (don't take that personally now ;-) !
Anon and Benjy
ReplyDeleteIf only you'd learn to use some punctuation.
If you would research Slabodka's derech you would see the large influence it had on R' Hutner zt"l's derech.
ReplyDeletePlease also remember the cherem harishonim, shelo l'hotzi laaz al hamaisim -- especially when it's false.
Returning to the point of this post, I think there is a simple reason for why Rebitzin Davis earned a PhD. The litvish were not hung up about secular knowledge. Their objection to university education was bittul torah, or should I say, tayrah. But that is not an inyan for women. Hence the longish list of daughters of Litvish rabbonim whose daughters got secular education, and not necessarily just justified as parnassah. the mentality has now shifted to parnassah-only justification. Academic PhD's are lousy strategies for parnassah. the path to success is long and the pay is modest in comparison to other degrees requiring less effort.
ReplyDeletethanks, Shimmy
ReplyDeleteMy family members always say that I am killing my time here
ReplyDeleteat web, except I know I am getting knowledge everyday by reading such
nice content.