Necktie keMinhag Chernobel... Only recently did Chernobel become synonymous with extremism in levush etc.
על זה היה דוה לבנו
די אלע אידן זענען שוין היינט נישטא, זיכער היטלער-קרבנות ווי נאך מיליאנען, קאם וואס מען ווייסט בכלל פון אזא איד היינט, חוץ פון א פאר חוקרים און אוספי עתיקות וכדומה. די חורבן ווערט גרעסער פון טאג צו טאג. די אידן האבען מיטגעליטן די צער פון זייערע אידן, און זייער אפט געלעבט פונקט אזוי בדוחק ווי די המון. די היינטיקע גוטע אידן מאכען נאך די אלטע היים ביז צו א מאס, ביז צו די קעשענע. יעמאלט פארגעסן זיי פון די אלטע היים און מאכן נייע מנהגים. אמאל האט מען געקוקט צום רבי'ן פאר הדרכה, פאר יראת שמים, היינט ציילט מען פארענטשעס און פלייש, און ווי הויך די שטריימל און וואס פאר א קאליר די טיש קאפטן. קיין וואונדער אז די מנהיג פון די אונגארישע חסידים האט שוין מיט מער פון 40 יאר צוריק געזאגט אז נשתכחה תורת הבעש"ט: ער האט פשוט געמיינט ביי זיינע מענטשן! און ער האט געהאט רעכט דאס צו זאגען בנוגע זיינע אידן. איז לאמיר כאטש ליינען און זעהן ווי די אידן האבען זיך געפירט, אזוי אז מיר זאלען וויסן אז ס'איז אמאל געווען גוטע אידן אויף ג-ט ברוך הוא'ס גרינע ערד. בברכה - הירשל ציג
43 comments:
Touching. We should send you to the coffee rooms and you can complain about Malkiel's new drapes...
he must've wiped his hands in the old ones too much...
how come the skwerer of new square changed his levush? his claim to fame was his fanatic clutch to minhogim
Answer re Skver is that he is a Belzer einikel and his father took on many Belzer minhagim from his maternal grandfather.
Secondly, Skver claims to clutch on to their minhagim, not to those of the Chernobyl anscestors exclusively.
No stira there....
who is in the last photo and when?
aren't these photos from Novoseller's book ?
please, Hershel do not talk about Ukrainian Rebbes- YOU DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THEM.
"Only recently did Chernobel become synonymous with extremism in levush etc."
WHAT????????? ALL CHERNOBILER REBBES WERE AS KHONYAKED AS IT COMES(Look CAREFULLY at Twersky/Novoseller book)
He is not wearing a tie, but a paroiches which was weared Tzanzer and Dzhikover kinder too.
My great-grand father was a Lubavitcher chosid in Belarus- he had long peios, dressed a long kapote and his wife went with a shwartse tichel- amy be this is extrime?
Since when a chasidiche levush is extreme???
anonymous
It sure doesn't look like a parochesel, since it's moved far to the side, and the parochosel didn't do that. We've discussed that Levush here before.
stick to Belarus, my friend. Read where the Ukranian Twerski Rebbetzins all wore sheitlach in 1910 already, when in Galicia it was treif chazzer.
I'm sure your elter zeide was a voyler yid. what was his name by the way?
I've studied the book quite often; they sure don't look like Galicianer and Hungarian Rebbes to me.
I'm sure your elter zeide was a voyler yid. what was his name by the way?
Menchem Mendel Pevsner.
Read where the Ukranian Twerski Rebbetzins all wore sheitlach in 1910 already, when in Galicia it was treif chazzer.
I know all about it- bad news is ...well they are all shochey ufor already. I just do not want to talk too much. My father is from Ukraine/Bessarabia - i know what was going on there too. The ladies started become modern (not only in levush) in 1900 all over (even with husbands tsadikim).. then here we got their "great and heiliger" einiklach running all the Hasiduses today.That is not the only reason for the crap that we are eating today, but it is a part for rsure.Zol shoin zain der geila:) Hamevin yuvin v dok lheovin :(
Fred
the pics are all of the same Rebbe. I'm not sure exactly when the last photo was taken.
Anonymous (Pevzner)
so you basically agree with me...
do you have a picture of your elter zeide that you can share with the Oylem here?
Fred
the pics are all of the same Rebbe. I'm not sure exactly when the last photo was taken.
it was taken by a goy on a second day Rosh Hashune going to Tashlich.
do you have a picture of your elter zeide that you can share with the Oylem here?
will try
SECOND DAY ROSH HASHONOH AND MAYBE 2-3 SHTRAYMLECH/SPODIKS?
I THOUGHT ALL CHASSIDIM WORE FUR HATS ON SHABBOS AND Y"T SINCE THE DAWN OF CHASSIDUS???
OK - So we all agree that the narishe ______ of today are into Rabbeinu Taam's, 16" shtraimlech and vaase geblimte bekeshes sitting in front of a silver vase with 4' peiros piled up, and a 65 foot full color banner wit Gold Crowns and Purple curtains etc. in the background.. (never next to an open sefer CH"V. - Only Litvaks do that). But WHY WHY WHY do the Chabad vaiblech and maidlach all want to look like they come from Hollywood? VD"L. Pilei ployim! Nishtakach Torah Shebeksav V'Baal Peh?
Anon,
you know why ?because their is such a thing as a Yetzer Hora even for the CH Meidlach, in case you didnt know
translation google translate:
All jews are already today there is, certainly Hitler - victims as more millions, comb that people know in general of such a Jew today, except from a for researchers and Auspey esikus etc.. The devastation is greater from day to day. The jews have mitgelitn the grief of their jews, and their often lived so narrowly as the lot. The this good jews do after the old home to a measure, to order the pocket. Yemalt forget them of the old home and make new customs. Once one looked to the teacher 's for training, for fear of heaven, this day shared one farentshes and meat, and how loud the shtreyml and that for a color the table captain. No signs that the leader of the Hungarian Hasidim have with more than 40 years ago said that nshskhkhh Theory hbesh"t: he just thought among his people, and he had the right to zagen about his jews. Is let even lines and View how the jews have themselves led, so that we may know that there was once was good jews in C - I. Baruch, he's green earth. Regards - deer goat
OY- leave it too a machine to butcher Yiddish.
Tzig too much bashing of todays Jews.
The only way to make things better is to convince contemporaries that they can be worthwhile not that htey are worthless.
I don't bash, I bring things to light. I'm just saying that we're missing the essence, despite all the trappings.
לגבי הלבוש ברוסיא ואוקריינא ברור שפעם כולם, אבל כל מזרח אירופה, בגד קצר היה משכילי וגרמני "לבוש כמו דייטשיל, כמו שהיום חסידים אומרים לבוש כמו ליטאי) לבשו פאות ארוכות, בגד ארוך עד הרצפה, גרביים לבנות, שטריימיל בשבת או קסקט ביום חול הכל התחיל בגזירת הלבוש של שנת תר"י לערך. הצמח צדק היה סבור שאין שום ענין למסור נפש על הלבוש ולכן אחרי זמן מה שינו את הלבוש ברוסיה (וכאמור יש כאן פשוט שיבוש כאילו הלבוש קשור איכשהו לחסידות, לפני הגזירה לבשו כל יהודי ליטא גרביים לבנות ושטריימיל (רק פריט אחד היה נחשב לחסידי מאז, הוא אטלס או קפטן של משי) . גם אדמורי אוקריינא כמו הרוז'ניר ואדמורי טשערנוביל לא סברו שיש למסור את הנפש על כך ולכן שינו האדמורים והחסידים שם קצת את הלבוש עם הדורות (ופשטו את הלבנים והחלו ללבוש מכנסים ארוכות) . ולכן אדמורי טשערנוביל ׁ(ר' אהרן טשערנוביל למשל לבש כולו לבנים, האדמור הראשון באוקריינא (אחר כך עבר לגליציה השמרנית שבסופו של דבר הצית את המחלוקת עם הצנזר בימי בניו) ששינה בעצמו היה הרוזנר שהחליף לשחור והלביש מכנסיים ארוכות), ליטא, כמו סלונים קארלין, רוסיא, כמו חב"ד (הראשון היה המהר"ש שהסיר בגדי לבנים ואף כנראה לא לבש מכנסים קצרות וגרביים ארוכות, ואחר כך בנו הרש"ב כבר כמעט ולא גרס לבוש אדמורי ונותר רק השטריימיל הרוסי וגם זאת רק כאשר שהה בליובאוויטש)
אך לא כן בפולין שהאדמור בעל החידושי הרי"ם, בניגוד להקוצקר (שבוודאי לא סבל שום עיסוק בדבר חיצוני כמו לבוש) סבר שיש למסור נפש על הלבוש ולכן ההקפדה היתה שם עד לדם התמצית (הכל השתנה בין שתי המלחמות
בגליציה אבל נשאר כל הלבוש בתקופו משום שגליציה לא היתה תחת שלטון הצאר וממילא לא היתה תחת הגזירה, ואדמורי גליציה היו הארכי שמרנים
"I don't bash, I bring things to light. I'm just saying that we're missing the essence, despite all the trappings."
Ha,Ha, you dumb Goat!!!
Look who is talking, the biggest chitzon of them all!
The Skwerer Chasidim claim in their biographical books that they were always fanatical obsessed on Levush and the old Reb Dovid Skwerer told his son Reb Yakov Yossef to stop befriending and learning with a bochur a Ilu just for the sin of changing a hat style, and with his fine smell he sensed that he is a potential communist and later he ended up as a commie in his life so forth ... all because the hat transformation.
As an aside,I wonder how they can author a fat biography on a persons youth with nobody alive from his town or even the vicinity.
What is your obsession with Skver,Tzig?
You are always negative and write lies.
Jealous that they have a vibrant Rebbe, vibrant kehilla?
Skver is not for everybody.Somebody who wants to live a true toradigeh life, gehitten fin gas and prepared to accept certain takkunes, Skver is the place.Wonderful people,warm,baaley chesed oogehitteneh kinder etc.
I can understand how someone trying to learn Chsides, while having the distractions of even their own bnai bayis with regards to levush etc will be driven to such jealousy
I WILL HAVE TO TAKE IT ON YOU NOW
Jealous that they have a vibrant Rebbe, vibrant kehilla?
VIBRANT IN WHAT?IN COPING HIS FATHER AND BEING SMART ALEC? WHAT ARE HIS CREDENTIALS? HOW MUCH DID HE LEARNED BEFORE HE BECAME A REBBE? WAS HE CHOSEN TO BE A REBBE BECAUSE OF HIS OUTSTANDING TSIDKUS OR BECAUSE HE IS THE REBBES SON?
IS THIS HASIDUS? THEN I AM A LUTHERAN
TOIREDIKE LIFE??? WITH ALL THE MAFIA RILLUNG THERE?
CUT THE CRAP!
As an aside,I wonder how they can author a fat biography on a persons youth with nobody alive from his town or even the vicinity.
THIS BOOK WAS WRITTEN BY LEIBEL SURKIS, WHO WENT AROUND FOR LAST 40 YEARS COLLECTING ABOUT SKVERER REBBE ZA''L- HE DID MEET A LOT OF PEOPLE THROUGH THAT TIME
Re difference between Tweskis and Galicianer Chassidim especially re Levush, you only need to look at:
Conflict of Twerskis who were Belzer eidemes...I mean the real Belz not the fancy fakers of Belz Yerushalayim today...
The Milwakee Rebbe being thrown out of Bobov for being too modern, the Crocow for the same reason, which was a yeshua for him, otherwise he might have ended up in churban Poland....
Vehachai yitein el liboi
"who will be the zeidy of my children..."
Anon 9-2 455
In the ukraine and northeastern poland only the rebbes wore shtreimlich- as opposed to the rest of poland (spodiks) and hungary and galicia. Was the land of shreimlich.
re: neckties...Is that why the Boyaner rebbe, as well as the Zhvil-Mezhibzh rebbe of Boston wears a regular tie, even with a rekel?
today's rebbes were ties to copy their grandfathers- AND THAT'S IT.
Amulidike tsadikim were meyached yechudim with a tie also (m'pi Bohusher Rebbe zecher tsadik lbrucha)
Anon 12:54:00 PM
re: neckties...Is that why the Boyaner rebbe, as well as the Zhvil-Mezhibzh rebbe of Boston wears a regular tie, even with a rekel?"
I heard from a boyaner chossid that the rihzner einiklach -Boyan, Sadigur, Kapishnitz, Behush, Tzefenesh, Chorkov - started wearing ties during WW1 when they wound up war refugees in vienna and berlin. Between the wars, eastern galitzia was a wasteland and the Rihzner Rebbes stayed in vienna until WW2. Some left to EY and were saved, others found a place in various polish cities.
"Anonymous GALICIANER said...
SECOND DAY ROSH HASHONOH AND MAYBE 2-3 SHTRAYMLECH/SPODIKS?
I THOUGHT ALL CHASSIDIM WORE FUR HATS ON SHABBOS AND Y"T SINCE THE DAWN OF CHASSIDUS???"
Vos redst du? All Yidden from time of Mayseh Rabbeinu!
Response to SEEN IT ALL
started wearing ties during WW1 when they wound up war refugees in vienna and berlin
TOTAL GARBAGE!!! TYPICAL WAY OF HAINTEGE CHASIDIM TO MAKE EVERYTHING PLAIN AND SIMPLE.(so their Rebbes, who are nothings, do not look that bad)
I am bringing here what the Bohusher Rebbe said about ties, and you are bringing what some boyaner chusid said?
chochma meain?????????
1.The reason the Skverer in New Skwer are so makpid on minhogim is because the Rebbe Yakov Yosef was a son in law of the Osteller rav Reb Pinya who was a son in law of the Belzer ruv Reb Yissocher ber, the minhogim thing came from alicia not Russia. I knew reb Dovid Twersky the Skverer of BP and I heard much from him about his father minhogim were important there too but not like in New Square.Anyone who knew any of the dozens and dozens of Twersky rebebs who livd in the uS since 1918 knows how ridiculous this is , because few of these men did not have families that adopted Nusach America.
Chassidus dead = as he always did the grand rabbi of Satmar took a hesped that the Magen Avos Rabbi S.Solomon Zalman Schneersohn wrote about his father the Maharil of Kopust and placed it out of context. The Magen Avos was saying divre melitza on his father's gadlus, nothing more and the Satmarer Rebbe took it out of context . Since his teachings of fervent hatred for other Jews (Zionists, other chassidim, secular Jews) hardly had precedent in Chassidus , he had to create an ew misgeres - framework, chasdius was dead.The Satmarer rebbe was excelelnt on picking and chosing Maamere Chazal that fit his shitah and then in taking things out of context like the Gimmel Shevouth a halacha from an Agaadata .
Schneur
the BP Skwerer used to call alot of the new Skwerer Minhogim, "Minhogei Trana" on his aunt that was a belzer einikel that she introduced to Skwer
Seen it all
Was the Baousher rebbe in Vienna? I think not, and he wore a Tie too,
maybe I am mistaking
Schneur,
What bugs me always, why was he obsessed that chassidus is forgotten, why was not toras Hagro forgotten? were not enough Zionists from the Gra school? they quoted the Kol Hator of the Gra?
Dovid
"somebody who wants to live a true toradigeh life"
its strange that the Taubers who were the big torah builders of monsey had to leave that great torah town
toras hagra is alive and well because the chasidim learn it
Schneur,
For the record,
I read in a book that one of the Malochim wrote, that he gave for the Satmar Rov the Mogan Ovas source, he on his own had no idea of things like these
"The Milwakee Rebbe being thrown out of Bobov for being too modern, the Crocow for the same reason, which was a yeshua for him, otherwise he might have ended up in churban Poland...."
Partly inaccurate. The Milwaukee Rebbe left Bobov under accusation (that were neither true nor was there ever any evidence to suggest validity). He then spent about 6 months in Gorlice, and then he moved to Cracow. He did not find any means to subsist, and went into "galus", something out of the books of tzaddikim of many generations earlier. He did not find any other location to settle, and he opted to go to America. he left his rebbetzin and two children in Cracow, and came to New York. He was unable to tolerate what he observed in New York, and he sought other places in the United States that were more acceptable. The region of Milwaukee and Chicago had been settled primarily by Ukrainian Jews, and he found this appealing. He was accepted in a rabbonus in Milwaukee, and he established his own bais hamedrash. He was not evicted from Cracow, though he was from Bobov.
It is worth noting that The Bobover Rebbe R' Shlomo ZT"L maintained communication with the Milwaukee Rebbe throughout these years, and their close relationship remained all through their years in America. Neither felt any traces of animosity or alienation despite the history. may their model of burying machlokes and keeping all family connections tight serve as a guide for all.
Reb Shlomo ZT"L was especially fond of many Milwaukee aineklech.
do you have more pictures of the rebbe of zhorik?
no more. sorry. are you an eynikel of Zhoriker chassidim?
Post a Comment