Why are they so proud on a losing proposition, the whole world did not accept non of his Nosoi Torah hangovers. They write that the infamous torah was for Klal Yisroel, and they don't realize that Klal Yisroel did not listen, period. The whole of Klal Yisroel is going to the Kosel, including 70% of families that belong to their well financed satellite in Jerusalem, the Eida Hacharides, The whole Klal Yisroel embraced the Arvus for Klal Yisroel and all Gedolie Yisroel are on the Baal Teshuva wagon. Outreach to the non frum is today part of Shlumie Emunie Yisrael, So why are they not getting of that tree, and discuss the pilpulim of RJT of Shvouth on the famous Sigeter shmussen, Schar Mitzva Behai Alma Leke.... etc...
this Torah was Gorem that the true colors of Lubavitch Ahavas Yisroel should come to the forefront, the famous Sichah לא מהם ולא מהמונם BTW it's well established in Halacha that there is no Arvus on a Mechalel Shabos
Anon "this Torah was Gorem that the true colors of Lubavitch Ahavas Yisroel should come to the forefront, " Ahavas Yisroel does not mean that you will just let a universal hatemonger go on with his evil. I assume that whoever ought less of the Rebbes Ahavas Yisroel, was already made up his mind before.
Anon "BTW it's well established in Halacha that there is no Arvus on a Mechalel Shabos" can you please bring all the poskim Obviously the AR in Tanya chapter Lamed Bies does not exclude a Mechalel Shabos, and in certain Kehilas, he is considered as a posek as the GRA,
Anon "BTW it's well established in Halacha that there is no Arvus on a Mechalel Shabos" then why are all gedolie yisroel involved in kiruv? the biggest Kinusim of Gedolim you only see by these events? is it only as the Lubabs say that all misnagdic kiruv is for getting jobs for Yungeliet that cant go out to work(the BY wives will divorce them)? or for the chiuv of arvus of Klal Yisroel? Or maybe they are only Mekarev Shomrie Shabos to use the Chazon Ish generator?
Tzig, You criticize Satmar but neglect to mention that every Chabad boy and girl is fed notorious stories about 200 year old fights as an essential part-of-their-chinuch. In essence keeping up the age old Chasidim-Misnagdim wars.
Don't you think that you are being disingenuous??
There is a feeling that Chabadniks especially newbies feel they can do and say whatever they want while attacking others for the same misguided partisanviews.
Tzvi "AND EVERYONE THINKS HIS SHITAH IS A TORAH VIEW" what is his shita? and who is agreeing? Is Everyone all the Dayonim of the Zalonim and the Aronim?
Anon.4:05 These words are in this "pamphlet."Please read it and you will find these exact words.Now after you've read it will someone tell me what these words mean? After all they were said by the "holy" Sakmerer Rebbe!
These words"farbrent"etc. are in the box to the left of the lines highlighted in yellow.I'm waiting for an explanation.After all they were said by someone who writes pages on every kutzo shel yud in Veyoel Moshe. Surely he was quite exact in his loshn.
I saw some other interesting thing in the pamphlet, they write that the SR was in Marienbad by the 32 years When the Ahavas Yisroel of Visnitz was also there, So they write that out of manners he went to the Tisch I wuld like to verify,Maybe he went to the Tisch because he wanted to see Hatzadik Bevodosoi? or he was so holy and great in his youth, that no Tzadik could add to his Madriegos?
Hirshel your anology is wrong! this fight between charadim & zionim is only 70 yeras old the one who started it from the begining was no other than the meharsha'b z"l and the mhar"yy continued it the lsat rebbe opted out when it became out of style but was continued by SR z"l and it is valid today as than as long as this medina is a jewish/zionist medina, but chasidum & misnagdim heloooo! I havent seen one for many years.
Rupert: I’m not sure I qualify as a ‘soft spoken associate..’ but I’ll give it a shot, he said those words in a ‘talk’ but he writes in his books and says in his drashes ”that it will be butel without any dowd before the meshiach will come and that there will not be a coming of moshiach until then”. Said that, I’ll add that he also “writes” that he is praying.. that this shall happen by an act of g-d and not thru any nation c”v “who will not have any mercy on the citizens of the medina”!. Said that, I’ll add he based his infinite opinion on many… mamura chazal!!! (which this is not the place to point to them, get his sefer and you will see it in abandonment) And not on his beliefs or wisdom! (only) z”l
Not one word you wrote is correct ! The 'fight against Zionism is 70 years old' ??? Zionism started 70 years ago ?! The Rashab started it ? What nonsense !!
Read ! Learn !
It began before the turn of the century !! Actually, the S'R was at the tail end of it ! One of the last of the real anti Zionist fighters.
The major issue was, in the late 1800's up until 1948, the anti Zionist Rabbonim saw thousands of Jews becoming irreligious and they witnessed the Zionist fervor sweeping through many communities and they associated both trends and concluded that Zionism is the root of all evils. ( For serious students of the socio-economic- religious trends in society at large, that in itself is very questionable ).
After 1948, and after the Holocaust, many Rabbonim changed their opinion, realizing that Israel, is not the end of Judaism on this plant, as was feared, but actually helped Judaism flourish in a spectacular manner.
These Rabbonim saw and see the facts on the ground, in Israel, unlike the previous generations who could only speculate as to what was going to happen.
However the last of the old guard, namely the S'R kept the flames burning and decided to continue the struggle, in perpetuity. Maybe because it was the Hungarian tradition from previous generations and not wanting to deviate from what was taught until then.
Nowadays, all that is left is the 'kein oso Hillelniks and the 'zeicher lmikdosh, k'koif bifnei hoadam vda'l.
There is no real connection between what you see nowadays and to what once was.
Anon "it the lsat rebbe opted out when it became out of style " was the Rebbes war against land return in style? or all the charidie and secular media portraed the Rebbe as a zealot? I dont see no prestige gained from it. In our day and age you look like a humanitarian when you on the left side of Israeli politics.
Anon "the lsat rebbe opted out when it became out of style but was continued by SR z"l " why did the SR not fight all his life the fight of Reb Hilel Kolomayer against the Neologs? was that not the Mesorah of hungarian Jewry? If you stop fighting them then you modern and noisen yad Laposhim, chonef lershoim etc...I assume that RJT the profesional anti Reshoim fighter opted out of these Mesorah laden war and there were no Nosoi Torah on that war, because he considered the war against Neolog dead, eventough it was a holy war of the Hungarian Rabonim.So the same happened with some other Rebbe in Brooklyn, He decided that their are no Zionist ideology left, it is only Yiddiskiet vs.secular and he sacrificed his and his chasidims life to fight that war.
I believe I remember reading the SR said the same kind of language to the Belzer Rov,R.Aharon,and the latter said something like-- chas v'shalom--I don't remember the exact words of the Belzer Rov.What else can these words of the SR mean: פארבּרענט ווערן כּלה ואבּד The new propaganda is that he was no different than any other Rebbe save for the fact that he had a little idiosyncracy when it came to Zionism.In fact he was uncompromising to a fault and nothing in the world would get him to budge from his positions.His attitude toward the Jewish State was mean and vindictive. Sorry,but those are the facts.The words in the "newsletter" are those of the SR-not mine.By the way-there are a lot of natruna activists out there. Will they put this quote in the Washington Post with their other propaganda so that Denniss Ross and Eric Cantor can get an idea of how great a "holy man" the SR was?I'm sure they'd love to know that Israel has to be burnt completely and destroyed before the arrival of the Messiah!!![CH"V}
Mr “Read! Learn!”, (the know it all) professor of: socio-economic- religious trends i.e. am haaretz. To Anon: (Monday, June 13, 2011 8:51:00 PM)
The organized ‘fight against Zionism’ not Zionism itself started by the creation of the agudah against the mizrachi (hence against the Zionism), the most vocal against the creation of the ‘aguda’ itself (for fear that it will become Zionist itself was the mersha”b z”l – 70-80 years ago (see his many letters on this written by himself, mr. professor) there is also a sefer printed around that time called ‘tikun olam’ available in all charadi bookstores with over 150 rabbunim/tzadikim who warn that aguda will wind up becoming Zionist itself as indeed it became so!, virtually ‘ALL RABUNIM’ agreed that a medina before the coming of moshiach is a cardinal sin, the infighting of the rabunim was only if the creation of ‘aguda’ to be at the forefront of this fight is good or bad.
The daas torah is not a political polemic that changes with the ‘facts on the ground’ even in the time of the nevioum there where times that there was only ‘300’ people left that didn’t commit to the avoda zora.. That was then ‘the facts on the ground’ which of course didn’t prevail! You are right that the SR z”l carrying the torch of all rabbunim kedoshim (who died by the holocaust- because of the Zionist cause) bore this fight to our time in “perpetuity” ! “milchama l’ashm b’amulike mdor dor!” ‘A relic of bygone years ?’ not yet mr. socio-economic- religious professor. (am haaretz-b’laz)
Rupert I read in the Media that Berlusconni of Italy a more realistic right leaning PM is all the way on the side of Bibi. So the question is if gentiles like Bohener, the speaker of the US congress and Italy are on the side of Bibi, is he still a Misgareh Beumoth? when does it stop? are only Muslims Umoth?
The torah calls for an ‘ir hanidachs’ to be burned down with all her contents, so does it call for when you will conquest the land of canaan to burn down “ALL houses of worship” and so was the midus of sadum! Israel in contrast not only is medina shel kofrim which is worst than avodah zurah! But they have a ‘misrad h’datit’ wich virtually was created to ‘protect ‘ALL’ avoda zora houses’.. I’ll not continue to elaborate here on this… but I hope you get the drift mr rupert..
To all Supporters of the Satmer shiteh: 1)Be honest enough to tell all your yeshivishe and misnagdishe friends that you believe the medineh must be burnt and completely destroyed[my translation of the SR's words in Yiddish]before Moshiach comes. This is in accordance with the contents of your official "newsletter" for your schoolchildren. 2)The next time you do lobbying or place an ad in the Washington Post under the pretense of being Torah true Jews, please inform the Senators and Congressmen that your Grand Rabbi requires that all churches in Israel must be completely and utterly destroyed as they constitute idolatry. I am sure Hillary Clinton,Robert Gates, and Joe Biden will be deeply impressed by your sense of brotherhood and mutual respect toward other religions.Your Grand Rabbi clearly states this in Veyoel moshe so why are you shy about telling the world about it? Adrabeh,you have the truth about Zionism,then please let us have the truth about other "religions" as well.
Anon "The Mr Berlusconni of Italy has more current issues to deal with right now, so i would advise him.." you think that all the Muslim Rulers are lesser Adulterers and rapist then Berlusconni? I thing they are worse, he pays for it at least, they do it at gun point.
Anon "But they have a ‘misrad h’datit’ wich virtually was created to ‘protect ‘ALL’ avoda zora houses’.." what about the Hisgarus Beumois that will cause if the Zionist will 1 day burn down all churches and Mosques? Ein Issur Chal Al Issur, Yoy never learned that sugya in Queens or KJ? Unless you really believe deep down that it is only a pseudo isser, Chas Milehazkir...
Anon "virtually ‘ALL RABUNIM’ agreed that a medina before the coming of moshiach is a cardinal sin, " is there a letter of the Shem Mishmiel, Klie Chemda, Reb Menachem Zembo, Reb Chaim Oizer and Rav Duschinsky in that Gevaldiger Book Tikun Olem? I think it only has the Munkacher and the Chaper Ruv Btw, did you ever hear of the above listed Gedolim? or they are not Hiemish?
Anon "I'll add YOUR AN IDIOT! on wich all of israel shall say AMEN!" is that the only answer that the Natronoa PR office can provide for Rupert? If I would be on the Natronoa board I would fire all the IDIOTS in that office.
Anon "You are right that the SR z”l carrying the torch of all rabbunim kedoshim " I will ask you the same question as before, Are the Shem Mishmiel, Klie Chemda, Reb Menachem Zembo, Reb Chaim Oizer and Rav Duschinsky Reb AM Alter Pressburger Ruv Reb Aron Belzer, the Gedolim of yesteryear that SR is carrying their torch?
'ho rotza l'shker yarcik ediso' you fabricate lies and repeat them untill you think its true! no rav byisruel ever agreed to a zionistshe medina!(in the present form) and if they did! he is ucit liden as haden! you must be a belzer maskel.. or stam an agudist trying to justify their delema
There is 100 and maybe 1000 of isurei d'ohreisi and chilul hasems that this medina is over every second of its exsistence and if by mentioning the names of the above gedolim is enough for you to be brained wash to think that they would agree to this than wash your brain again because you dont believe not in gedoli yisrael and not in keim hmitzvous. fuu zei tuma!
is there any sigyus hashas or any t'suvous written on "ANY" subject from the heliger belzer ruv z"l? if yes where can i get them ? 'torah he v'lilmud ani zurich! if NO what makes him an expert on a subject like this where true gedoli yisrael wrote 100 of tshivous on every subject pertainig this medina! torah lo bashumayim he.
Anon "where true gedoli yisrael wrote 100 of tshivous on every subject pertainig this medina! torah lo bashumayim he." Nobody on earth besides the SR wrote a Teshuva l'Issur on that matter. It is for exactly the opposite of what you guys are thinking, not because it is a tough Aguna problem or tough problem in hichos Kilayim. It is a simple Agadta chazal and not brought down in no Rav Ilfas, Rambam, Tur, or shulchan orech. So it is a big balloon pulled on Klal Yisroel and whoever does not agree is considered a apikores, by certain Jews who follow the Shita. Even the Chebiner Ruv or the Brisker Ruv that was more on the extreme side, did not see a way in torah that it is a halachic problem. FYI, The Munkatcher also has has small teshuva in Minchas Eluzer
at the end of the day the satmar rebbes sefer had never been refuted , even after reb yoel cohens attempt.it is his shitah that is clearly the halacha. now the others who felt the need to be meikel had the right to do so, however even if you justify davening late on shabbos , davening on time is still the normative halacha
Anon "There is 100 and maybe 1000 of isurei d'ohreisi and chilul hasems that this medina is over every second of its existence" Maybe you have a point, but what do you think is the view of all the Gedolim regarding the chilul hashem of the Zali and Aroni brothers in Willi simchas torah or the KJ septic tanks war or what are they thinking about the Halicha Learkoueas of both sides equally. You think that they are davening it should all burn down like the SR davened for the Medina. What exactly is the Chillul Hashem that is going on every second in Israel? when the IDF defends themselves it is a Chilul hashem or Kidush hashem? Was Auschwitz a chilul Hashem or Kidush Hashem?
Anon:11:47 Please don't "chanfe" me with your compliments.All the same,they are "appreciated" very much.Still,the editor of the Washington Post wants to know who these ultra-orthodox Jews are and I'm not sure if the Post needs to know that the guidebook for your shiteh castigates the Zionists for not destroying all churches which exist in the "Holy Land."Don't you think this is a fair question since you now portray yourself as highly sophisticated "lobbyists" operating in the world of Washington politics and international diplomacy?Certainly enlightened individuals from Natruna would have no difficulty explaining the "Rebbe's" shiteh to the Washington "elites."By the way, please tell me which of the members of your Rabbinical board gave you permission to have a website. A simple answer will suffice.
How about a little honesty from Satmar about mistreating palis? They pretend like they are good liberal moonbats with all their ads but dont say they oppose throwing out the palestinians because of a technicality (3 shevuos). Hey, evil zionists, you threw out the palestinians too early!Don't you know the gemara says to wait for moshiach to throw them out!
What is the differnce between the Zionist State of Israel and the Zionist village of Kiryas Joel? Isn't Kiryas Joel misgara beumos? a simple answer will suffice. I'm not expecting one.
If you want to see what kind of hisgaruth beumos Kiryas Joel practices,please see the video clip from the 60 Minutes TV show. It's a bit dated but nevertheless quite relevant. Failed Messiah has it.[This is not an endorsement of other issues Failed Messiah deals with.]
There is something we can all do bepoel mamesh. The next time you hear a "Natrine" ad on Rush Limbaugh or Mark Levin,please call or Email WABC and inform them that these people are the Jewish version of Moonies and Scientologists and that 99% of Jews in the USA are strongly opposed to them.They are a cult that believes the SR is the only legitimate rabbinical authority in the universe and that anyone even remotely supporting the State of Israel is a true heretic.I think WABC will think twice about accepting further advertising from them.
Gimpel You have a strong point,and maybe you are not a Satmarer(which personally I don't buy) but why take your war to Israel, first clean your wildfires locally, Watch for all chilul hashem that are done on a daily basis in 11211 and in orange county,And then protest against KJ overbuilding that infuriates all its gentile neighbors, and stop stealing and stop sucking all the water from your gentile Neighbors. Make a meeting with your surrounding (not from Gaza but from Monroe,Woodbury and Harriman) neighbors and ask them if they agree on the amount of buildings that you have as of now in KJ, whatever they disagree on, Just demolish and Raze them, it is bigscale Hisgarus Beumoth.I believe that all this is closer to the Natrunoa office.I believe that you have to stop first, all that is around you. And if the Zalonim, Aronim and Bnie Yoel don't agree to leave from KJ. We should make a Yom Tefila on the day that KJ was created as the day we drank Lechaim by the Rebbe Zichrono Livrocho baal haVeyoel Moshe in Belle Harbor. On that yom hamar vehanimhoir Tachnun should be said even on a bris and a minyan should fast and say Vayechal in Nesivos Olem on Hewes St.
I've never heard an official response as to why Kiryas Yoel ignores the teshuvah of Rabbi Shlomo Kluger,Broder Magid and one of the gedolei hador that it is forbidden to establish an all Jewish city in the Golah. [in response to the Heiliker Rizhiner who had such an idea].When it suits them, they ignore a psak halocho,and when it suits them, they talk about hisgarus beumos ad chormoh!It is known that the SR was shown this teshuvah.
"It is known that the SR was shown this teshuvah."
Is it that you implying he was a 'yodoi as reboinoi and mischavan limroid boy!'(c"v0, or is it that your rebbe wasnt aware 'bein yeminoi lysmolo' thats why he signed on to the bechiros hatmayes! and unknowingly became a partner in the medina shel gahinom!?
gimpel,zurich,rupert,zvi,perplexed,anon, and all of you 'keroim and maskilim talmidi shel bilhom harusha! (of agrifas town)
Thanks for your support of ‘Natruna’ your free PR is appreciated keep on the good work, wich youre fathers and rebbes tried to silence is finnaly being proclaimed and supported by you all! http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/events/20071203/index.cfm
I'm sure you'll thank me even more when I'll show Sens. Lieberman and Blumenthal your bletl about "burning down the State of Israel" and the passages in VY'M about destroying all the churches in the "Holy Land."Happy to accomodate you!I'll be mazkir you bei birkas haminim.
Anon "Is it that you implying he was a 'yodoi as reboinoi and mischavan limroid boy!" Dont get so excited, it is possible he saw the teshuva and pilpul to refute, He saw the teshuvahs Avnie Nezer and refuted it too.
81 comments:
Why are they so proud on a losing proposition, the whole world did not accept non of his Nosoi Torah hangovers. They write that the infamous torah was for Klal Yisroel, and they don't realize that Klal Yisroel did not listen, period.
The whole of Klal Yisroel is going to the Kosel, including 70% of families that belong to their well financed satellite in Jerusalem, the Eida Hacharides,
The whole Klal Yisroel embraced the Arvus for Klal Yisroel and all Gedolie Yisroel are on the Baal Teshuva wagon. Outreach to the non frum is today part of Shlumie Emunie Yisrael,
So why are they not getting of that tree, and discuss the pilpulim of RJT of Shvouth on the famous Sigeter shmussen, Schar Mitzva Behai Alma Leke.... etc...
Adarabeh, Zogt Ihr vegen "Schar Mitzva Behai Alma Leke".
sdoch ober emmes!
Anonymous said... sdoch ober emmes!
THAT'S SAYS IT ALL! Thank You
Anon
What is Emes? that Schar Mitzva Behai Alma Leke".?
".....וואס מ'טיילט פאר כתות ו' און ז' אין א געוויסע חיידר"
tzig, chader is spelled without 2 yidelach.. unless you want to imply that h'ashem (2 yid's) is in that cheder, witch I'm sure he is
Anon
"What is Emes?"
never mind you wouldn't know it if it stares you in the eyes
in other moisdos they teach that there is a nasi hador, and those who disagreed with him had posul teffilin....
Moshie
"and those who disagreed with him had posul teffilin...."
Those who simple disagree ?or are out to put in to Cherem a nice Shevet M'Yisroel?
this Torah was Gorem that the true colors of Lubavitch Ahavas Yisroel should come to the forefront, the famous Sichah לא מהם ולא מהמונם
BTW it's well established in Halacha that there is no Arvus on a Mechalel Shabos
Those who simply disagreed, and the Parsha of the Hachoma with Rabbi Shinberger proves it,
BTW the Tefilin were Kosher....
Anon
"this Torah was Gorem that the true colors of Lubavitch Ahavas Yisroel should come to the forefront, "
Ahavas Yisroel does not mean that you will just let a universal hatemonger go on with his evil.
I assume that whoever ought less of the Rebbes Ahavas Yisroel, was already made up his mind before.
Anon
"Those who simply disagreed, and the Parsha of the Hachoma with Rabbi Shinberger proves it"
please provide us with the story,
Anon
"BTW it's well established in Halacha that there is no Arvus on a Mechalel Shabos"
can you please bring all the poskim
Obviously the AR in Tanya chapter Lamed Bies does not exclude a Mechalel Shabos, and in certain Kehilas, he is considered as a posek as the GRA,
Anon
"BTW it's well established in Halacha that there is no Arvus on a Mechalel Shabos"
then why are all gedolie yisroel involved in kiruv? the biggest Kinusim of Gedolim you only see by these events?
is it only as the Lubabs say that all misnagdic kiruv is for getting jobs for Yungeliet that cant go out to work(the BY wives will divorce them)? or for the chiuv of arvus of Klal Yisroel?
Or maybe they are only Mekarev Shomrie Shabos to use the Chazon Ish generator?
Tzig,
You criticize Satmar but neglect to mention that every Chabad boy and girl is fed notorious stories about 200 year old fights as an essential part-of-their-chinuch. In essence keeping up the age old Chasidim-Misnagdim wars.
Don't you think that you are being disingenuous??
There is a feeling that Chabadniks especially newbies feel they can do and say whatever they want while attacking others for the same misguided partisanviews.
Mr. "Teanek"
I'm coming after being criticized for "feeding children 200- year old fights"
understand?
Tzig,
I"m not sure I understand what you are trying to say.Can you elaborate?
Thx
first you need to learn how to spell "Teanek"
LIKE IT OR NOT THE SATMAR REBBE HAS THE RESPECT OF ALMOST ALL FRUM JEWS IN THE CHAREIDI WORLD AND EVERYONE THINKS HIS SHITAH IS A TORAH VIEW
Sorry I'm a Teanek shenishba in Teaneck.
Go ahead an explain what you meant.
פשוט מאד
Lubavitch was laughed at and scorned for teaching their kids old history of fights, etc. Here I show that it's done elsewhere too.
Ok.
So is it right or wrong?
Tzvi
"AND EVERYONE THINKS HIS SHITAH IS A TORAH VIEW"
what is his shita? and who is agreeing?
Is Everyone all the Dayonim of the Zalonim and the Aronim?
right? wrong? it is what it is...
The Satmar Rav's shitah is provin in his sefer, so his talmidim should learn it. it is not politics at all.
Anon
thanks for your clarification
"right? wrong? it is what it is..."
Come on, you do have an opinion, don't you?
I would think that bringing up long forgotten fights for young minds would be quite easy to define:Right or wrong??
Boy would some of the parents wish that the Lubabs would come to Willi and Monroe and put on Tefillin on some of their kids. In farkehrt oich nebach.
Can one of the soft spoken natruna associates kindly explain this comment from the SR:
די מדינה וועט דארפן פארבּרענט ווערן
I AM NOT SURE HE EVER SAID THAT. ALL HE SAID WAS THAT THE MEDINAH WILL BE BOOTEL AND SO SAID THE CHAZON ISH AS WELL
Anon
"AND SO SAID THE CHAZON ISH AS WELL"
The Chazon Ish gave a time limit of 50 years, Did the SR also give a time limit?
Anon.4:05 These words are in this "pamphlet."Please read it and you will find these exact words.Now after you've read it will someone tell me what these words mean? After all they were said by the "holy" Sakmerer Rebbe!
These words"farbrent"etc. are in the box to the left of the lines highlighted in yellow.I'm waiting for an explanation.After all they were said by someone who writes pages on every kutzo shel yud in Veyoel Moshe. Surely he was quite exact in his loshn.
I saw some other interesting thing in the pamphlet,
they write that the SR was in Marienbad by the 32 years When the Ahavas Yisroel of Visnitz was also there,
So they write that out of manners he went to the Tisch
I wuld like to verify,Maybe he went to the Tisch because he wanted to see Hatzadik Bevodosoi?
or he was so holy and great in his youth, that no Tzadik could add to his Madriegos?
anon 5:57
23, not 32. It was in 5670. He was born in 5647.
anon 1:06
that's how it's spelled in today's Israel, to differentiate between that and a simple room.
hirshil: "feeding children 200- year old fights"
Hirshel your anology is wrong! this fight between charadim & zionim is only 70 yeras old the one who started it from the begining was no other than the meharsha'b z"l and the mhar"yy continued it the lsat rebbe opted out when it became out of style but was continued by SR z"l and it is valid today as than as long as this medina is a jewish/zionist medina, but chasidum & misnagdim heloooo! I havent seen one for many years.
"that's how it's spelled in today's Israel"
Thanks hirshel, but for your yidsh readers in these united states chder without extra yidelich will do
Rupert:
I’m not sure I qualify as a ‘soft spoken associate..’ but I’ll give it a shot, he said those words in a ‘talk’ but he writes in his books and says in his drashes ”that it will be butel without any dowd before the meshiach will come and that there will not be a coming of moshiach until then”. Said that, I’ll add that he also “writes” that he is praying.. that this shall happen by an act of g-d and not thru any nation c”v “who will not have any mercy on the citizens of the medina”!. Said that, I’ll add he based his infinite opinion on many… mamura chazal!!! (which this is not the place to point to them, get his sefer and you will see it in abandonment) And not on his beliefs or wisdom! (only) z”l
Mr. Tipshim
Bizt goornisht aza tipish. Epes zugsti.
To anon 7:29 PM,
Not one word you wrote is correct !
The 'fight against Zionism is 70 years old' ???
Zionism started 70 years ago ?!
The Rashab started it ?
What nonsense !!
Read ! Learn !
It began before the turn of the century !! Actually, the S'R was at the tail end of it ! One of the last of the real anti Zionist fighters.
The major issue was, in the late 1800's up until 1948, the anti Zionist Rabbonim saw thousands of Jews becoming irreligious and they witnessed the Zionist fervor sweeping through many communities and they associated both trends and concluded that Zionism is the root of all evils. ( For serious students of the socio-economic- religious trends in society at large, that in itself is very questionable ).
After 1948, and after the Holocaust, many Rabbonim changed their opinion, realizing that Israel, is not the end of Judaism on this plant, as was feared, but actually helped Judaism flourish in a spectacular manner.
These Rabbonim saw and see the facts on the ground, in Israel, unlike the previous generations who could only speculate as to what was going to happen.
However the last of the old guard, namely the S'R kept the flames burning and decided to continue the struggle, in perpetuity. Maybe because it was the Hungarian tradition from previous generations and not wanting to deviate from what was taught until then.
Nowadays, all that is left is the 'kein oso Hillelniks and the 'zeicher lmikdosh, k'koif bifnei hoadam vda'l.
There is no real connection between what you see nowadays and to what once was.
A relic of bygone years.
An
he said those words in a ‘talk’ "
if the talk was only from too much heat, then maybe all his printed stuff is a overflow of heat?
"
Anon
"it the lsat rebbe opted out when it became out of style "
was the Rebbes war against land return in style? or all the charidie and secular media portraed the Rebbe as a zealot? I dont see no prestige gained from it.
In our day and age you look like a humanitarian when you on the left side of Israeli politics.
Anon
"the lsat rebbe opted out when it became out of style but was continued by SR z"l "
why did the SR not fight all his life the fight of Reb Hilel Kolomayer against the Neologs? was that not the Mesorah of hungarian Jewry? If you stop fighting them then you modern and noisen yad Laposhim, chonef lershoim etc...I assume that RJT the profesional anti Reshoim fighter opted out of these Mesorah laden war and there were no Nosoi Torah on that war, because he considered the war against Neolog dead, eventough it was a holy war of the Hungarian Rabonim.So the same happened with some other Rebbe in Brooklyn, He decided that their are no Zionist ideology left, it is only Yiddiskiet vs.secular and he sacrificed his and his chasidims life to fight that war.
to: "Monday, June 13, 2011 9:48:00 PM"
Nice polemic that and a quarter will get u a cup of coffee
I believe I remember reading the SR said the same kind of language to the Belzer Rov,R.Aharon,and the latter said something like-- chas v'shalom--I don't remember the exact words of the Belzer Rov.What else can these words of the SR mean:
פארבּרענט ווערן כּלה ואבּד
The new propaganda is that he was no different than any other Rebbe save for the fact that he had a little idiosyncracy when it came to Zionism.In fact he was uncompromising to a fault and nothing in the world would get him to budge from his positions.His attitude toward the Jewish State was mean and vindictive. Sorry,but those are the facts.The words in the "newsletter" are those of the SR-not mine.By the way-there are a lot of natruna activists out there. Will they put this quote in the Washington Post with their other propaganda so that Denniss Ross and Eric Cantor can get an idea of how great a "holy man" the SR was?I'm sure they'd love to know that Israel has to be burnt completely and destroyed before the arrival of the Messiah!!![CH"V}
Rupert said... Can one of the "soft spoken" natruna associates kindly explain this comment from the SR:
Mr Rupert practice what you preach!
Mr “Read! Learn!”, (the know it all) professor of: socio-economic- religious trends i.e. am haaretz. To Anon: (Monday, June 13, 2011 8:51:00 PM)
The organized ‘fight against Zionism’ not Zionism itself started by the creation of the agudah against the mizrachi (hence against the Zionism), the most vocal against the creation of the ‘aguda’ itself (for fear that it will become Zionist itself was the mersha”b z”l – 70-80 years ago (see his many letters on this written by himself, mr. professor) there is also a sefer printed around that time called ‘tikun olam’ available in all charadi bookstores with over 150 rabbunim/tzadikim who warn that aguda will wind up becoming Zionist itself as indeed it became so!, virtually ‘ALL RABUNIM’ agreed that a medina before the coming of moshiach is a cardinal sin, the infighting of the rabunim was only if the creation of ‘aguda’ to be at the forefront of this fight is good or bad.
The daas torah is not a political polemic that changes with the ‘facts on the ground’ even in the time of the nevioum there where times that there was only ‘300’ people left that didn’t commit to the avoda zora.. That was then ‘the facts on the ground’ which of course didn’t prevail! You are right that the SR z”l carrying the torch of all rabbunim kedoshim (who died by the holocaust- because of the Zionist cause) bore this fight to our time in “perpetuity” ! “milchama l’ashm b’amulike mdor dor!” ‘A relic of bygone years ?’ not yet mr. socio-economic- religious professor. (am haaretz-b’laz)
Rupert
I read in the Media that Berlusconni of Italy a more realistic right leaning PM is all the way on the side of Bibi. So the question is if gentiles like Bohener, the speaker of the US congress and Italy are on the side of Bibi, is he still a Misgareh Beumoth? when does it stop? are only Muslims Umoth?
"Berlusconni of Italy"
The Mr Berlusconni of Italy has more current issues to deal with right now, so i would advise him.. to take care of business (monkey business that is)
The torah calls for an ‘ir hanidachs’ to be burned down with all her contents, so does it call for when you will conquest the land of canaan to burn down “ALL houses of worship” and so was the midus of sadum! Israel in contrast not only is medina shel kofrim which is worst than avodah zurah! But they have a ‘misrad h’datit’ wich virtually was created to ‘protect ‘ALL’ avoda zora houses’.. I’ll not continue to elaborate here on this… but I hope you get the drift mr rupert..
To all Supporters of the Satmer shiteh:
1)Be honest enough to tell all your yeshivishe and misnagdishe friends that you believe the medineh must be burnt and completely destroyed[my translation of the SR's words in Yiddish]before Moshiach comes. This is in accordance with the contents of your official "newsletter" for your schoolchildren.
2)The next time you do lobbying or place an ad in the Washington Post under the pretense of being Torah true Jews, please inform the Senators and Congressmen that your Grand Rabbi requires that all churches in Israel must be completely and utterly destroyed as they constitute idolatry. I am sure Hillary Clinton,Robert Gates, and Joe Biden will be deeply impressed by your sense of brotherhood and mutual respect toward other religions.Your Grand Rabbi clearly states this in Veyoel moshe so why are you shy about telling the world about it?
Adrabeh,you have the truth about Zionism,then please let us have the truth about other "religions" as well.
"rupert said... To all Supporters of the Satmer shiteh:
1)Be honest enough"
the torah also says: 'al taan kesil b'avlosi'
I'll add YOUR AN IDIOT! on wich all of israel shall say AMEN!
Anon
"The Mr Berlusconni of Italy has more current issues to deal with right now, so i would advise him.."
you think that all the Muslim Rulers are lesser Adulterers and rapist then Berlusconni?
I thing they are worse, he pays for it at least, they do it at gun point.
Anon
"But they have a ‘misrad h’datit’ wich virtually was created to ‘protect ‘ALL’ avoda zora houses’.."
what about the Hisgarus Beumois that will cause if the Zionist will 1 day burn down all churches and Mosques?
Ein Issur Chal Al Issur, Yoy never learned that sugya in Queens or KJ?
Unless you really believe deep down that it is only a pseudo isser, Chas Milehazkir...
Anon
"virtually ‘ALL RABUNIM’ agreed that a medina before the coming of moshiach is a cardinal sin, "
is there a letter of the Shem Mishmiel, Klie Chemda, Reb Menachem Zembo, Reb Chaim Oizer and Rav Duschinsky in that Gevaldiger Book Tikun Olem?
I think it only has the Munkacher and the Chaper Ruv
Btw, did you ever hear of the above listed Gedolim? or they are not Hiemish?
Anon
"I'll add YOUR AN IDIOT! on wich all of israel shall say AMEN!"
is that the only answer that the Natronoa PR office can provide for Rupert?
If I would be on the Natronoa board I would fire all the IDIOTS in that office.
Anon
"You are right that the SR z”l carrying the torch of all rabbunim kedoshim "
I will ask you the same question as before,
Are the Shem Mishmiel, Klie Chemda, Reb Menachem Zembo, Reb Chaim Oizer and Rav Duschinsky Reb AM Alter Pressburger Ruv Reb Aron Belzer, the Gedolim of yesteryear that SR is carrying their torch?
"I will ask you the same question as before,"
'ho rotza l'shker yarcik ediso' you fabricate lies and repeat them untill you think its true! no rav byisruel ever agreed to a zionistshe medina!(in the present form) and if they did! he is ucit liden as haden! you must be a belzer maskel.. or stam an agudist trying to justify their delema
There is 100 and maybe 1000 of isurei d'ohreisi and chilul hasems that this medina is over every second of its exsistence and if by mentioning the names of the above gedolim is enough for you to be brained wash to think that they would agree to this than wash your brain again because you dont believe not in gedoli yisrael and not in keim hmitzvous. fuu zei tuma!
"Reb Aron Belzer"
is there any sigyus hashas or any t'suvous written on "ANY" subject from the heliger belzer ruv z"l? if yes where can i get them ?
'torah he v'lilmud ani zurich! if NO what makes him an expert on a subject like this where true gedoli yisrael wrote 100 of tshivous on every subject pertainig this medina! torah lo bashumayim he.
Anon
"where true gedoli yisrael wrote 100 of tshivous on every subject pertainig this medina! torah lo bashumayim he."
Nobody on earth besides the SR wrote a Teshuva l'Issur on that matter. It is for exactly the opposite of what you guys are thinking, not because it is a tough Aguna problem or tough problem in hichos Kilayim. It is a simple Agadta chazal and not brought down in no Rav Ilfas, Rambam, Tur, or shulchan orech. So it is a big balloon pulled on Klal Yisroel and whoever does not agree is considered a apikores, by certain Jews who follow the Shita.
Even the Chebiner Ruv or the Brisker Ruv that was more on the extreme side, did not see a way in torah that it is a halachic problem.
FYI, The Munkatcher also has has small teshuva in Minchas Eluzer
at the end of the day the satmar rebbes sefer had never been refuted , even after reb yoel cohens attempt.it is his shitah that is clearly the halacha. now the others who felt the need to be meikel had the right to do so, however even if you justify davening late on shabbos , davening on time is still the normative halacha
Anon
"There is 100 and maybe 1000 of isurei d'ohreisi and chilul hasems that this medina is over every second of its existence"
Maybe you have a point,
but what do you think is the view of all the Gedolim regarding the chilul hashem of the Zali and Aroni brothers in Willi simchas torah or the KJ septic tanks war or what are they thinking about the Halicha Learkoueas of both sides equally. You think that they are davening it should all burn down like the SR davened for the Medina.
What exactly is the Chillul Hashem that is going on every second in Israel? when the IDF defends themselves it is a Chilul hashem or Kidush hashem? Was Auschwitz a chilul Hashem or Kidush Hashem?
Anon
"if yes where can i get them ?"
it is in the same warehouse that we stored away all the teshuvahs of the Kedushas Yomtov.
Anon:11:47
Please don't "chanfe" me with your compliments.All the same,they are "appreciated" very much.Still,the editor of the Washington Post wants to know who these ultra-orthodox Jews are and I'm not sure if the Post needs to know that the guidebook for your shiteh castigates the Zionists for not destroying all churches which exist in the "Holy Land."Don't you think this is a fair question since you now portray yourself as highly sophisticated "lobbyists" operating in the world of Washington politics and international diplomacy?Certainly enlightened individuals from Natruna would have no difficulty explaining the "Rebbe's" shiteh to the Washington "elites."By the way, please tell me which of the members of your Rabbinical board gave you permission to have a website. A simple answer will suffice.
"Maybe you have a point"
i wold suggest you stay on the topic, dont compare apples to oranges...
"Certainly enlightened individuals from Natruna would have no difficulty explaining the "Rebbe's" shiteh to the Washington"
i think Obama is getting better than you think so dont be concerned, relax and watch
How about a little honesty from Satmar about mistreating palis? They pretend like they are good liberal moonbats with all their ads but dont say they oppose throwing out the palestinians because of a technicality (3 shevuos).
Hey, evil zionists, you threw out the palestinians too early!Don't you know the gemara says to wait for moshiach to throw them out!
pathetic fakers and liars
What is the differnce between the Zionist State of Israel and the Zionist village of Kiryas Joel? Isn't Kiryas Joel misgara beumos? a simple answer will suffice. I'm not expecting one.
If you want to see what kind of hisgaruth beumos Kiryas Joel practices,please see the video clip from the 60 Minutes TV show. It's a bit dated but nevertheless quite relevant. Failed Messiah has it.[This is not an endorsement of other issues Failed Messiah deals with.]
There is something we can all do bepoel mamesh. The next time you hear a "Natrine" ad on Rush Limbaugh or Mark Levin,please call or Email WABC and inform them that these people are the Jewish version of Moonies and Scientologists and that 99% of Jews in the USA are strongly opposed to them.They are a cult that believes the SR is the only legitimate rabbinical authority in the universe and that anyone even remotely supporting the State of Israel is a true heretic.I think WABC will think twice about accepting further advertising from them.
Why are Satmar baaleibatim on the SR shita. Iv VaYoel Moshe is correct, his credibility is not lost because of septic tank wars. Talk 'tzoo der zach'.
Gimpel
You have a strong point,and maybe you are not a Satmarer(which personally I don't buy) but why take your war to Israel, first clean your wildfires locally,
Watch for all chilul hashem that are done on a daily basis in 11211 and in orange county,And then protest against KJ overbuilding that infuriates all its gentile neighbors, and stop stealing and stop sucking all the water from your gentile Neighbors. Make a meeting with your surrounding (not from Gaza but from Monroe,Woodbury and Harriman) neighbors and ask them if they agree on the amount of buildings that you have as of now in KJ, whatever they disagree on, Just demolish and Raze them, it is bigscale Hisgarus Beumoth.I believe that all this is closer to the Natrunoa office.I believe that you have to stop first, all that is around you. And if the Zalonim, Aronim and Bnie Yoel don't agree to leave from KJ. We should make a Yom Tefila on the day that KJ was created as the day we drank Lechaim by the Rebbe Zichrono Livrocho baal haVeyoel Moshe in Belle Harbor.
On that yom hamar vehanimhoir Tachnun should be said even on a bris and a minyan should fast and say Vayechal in Nesivos Olem on Hewes St.
I've never heard an official response as to why Kiryas Yoel ignores the teshuvah of Rabbi Shlomo Kluger,Broder Magid and one of the gedolei hador that it is forbidden to establish an all Jewish city in the Golah. [in response to the Heiliker Rizhiner who had such an idea].When it suits them, they ignore a psak halocho,and when it suits them, they talk about hisgarus beumos ad chormoh!It is known that the SR was shown this teshuvah.
"It is known that the SR was shown this teshuvah."
Is it that you implying he was a 'yodoi as reboinoi and mischavan limroid boy!'(c"v0, or is it that your rebbe wasnt aware 'bein yeminoi lysmolo' thats why he signed on to the bechiros hatmayes!
and unknowingly became a partner in the medina shel gahinom!?
gimpel,zurich,rupert,zvi,perplexed,anon, and all of you 'keroim and maskilim talmidi shel bilhom harusha! (of agrifas town)
Thanks for your support of ‘Natruna’ your free PR is appreciated keep on the good work, wich youre fathers and rebbes tried to silence is finnaly being proclaimed and supported by you all!
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/events/20071203/index.cfm
I'm sure you'll thank me even more when I'll show Sens. Lieberman and Blumenthal your bletl about "burning down the State of Israel" and the passages in VY'M about destroying all the churches in the "Holy Land."Happy to accomodate you!I'll be mazkir you bei birkas haminim.
Anon
"Is it that you implying he was a 'yodoi as reboinoi and mischavan limroid boy!"
Dont get so excited,
it is possible he saw the teshuva and pilpul to refute, He saw the teshuvahs Avnie Nezer and refuted it too.
Anon
"and unknowingly became a partner in the medina shel gahinom!?"
My Rebbe does not know but you know,WOW WOW
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