Credit: "Ende Tsadik"
The current Belzer Rebbe, may he live and be well, reportedly commissioned a Karliner Chossid who's proficient in ניסוח to write this tefilloh for him. He then proceeded to send word to all Belzer shuls - of which there are many - to say this in davenen today, Chof Sivan, to commemorate the kedoshim of the Holocaust from 5700-5705. The author's name, Yehoshua Heshel, is supposedly embedded in the tefilloh at the end.
Hear Yermiyeh Daman at the amud in Kiryat Belz today
It has been repeated many times in the name of the Belzer Rav, Rebbe Aharon zt"l that he was of the opinion not to elaborate on the the horrors of the "Shoah" especially in an "official" setting. He was against mentioning the suffering of a victim on the matzeivoh of a survivor and rarely if ever alluded to his own terrible losses during this horrific period.
ReplyDeleteIt begs the question why the present Rav is introducing this alteration to something so obviously shunned by his predecessor, unless - if I may suggest - the above approach was meant for the generation of survivors who needed to suppress the horrible experiences in order to continue building their future and avoid the arising "kashos" as a result.
He has a immature obsession to create himself a image of a Original.
ReplyDeleteHe is suffering from that syndrome from the first day he became Rebbe
ויחון עלינו
ReplyDeleteWas a great source of inspiration...
While I greatly applaud the Belzer Rov for inserting this Kel Moleh Rachamim,the question of where G-d was for five and a half years during the endless "night" of the Holocaust needs to be asked even if it will never be answered.How could the G-d we pray to three times a day have completely abandoned us?Weren't there still thousands of Rebbeim,Roshei Yeshives,and stam erliche yidn still alive in pre-war Europe?In the mountains of seforim and frum periodicals that are published every week,has anyone ever found a satisfactory answer to this question?While we are taught to believe in hashgacha protis how do you reconcile that with the undeniable"facts on the ground?"
ReplyDeletePloni
ReplyDeleteyou saw that letter that That I linked to from the Lubavitcher Rebbe? Can you read it or have it translated?
Ploni
ReplyDeleteIn the letter that Hirshel put on from the Lubavicher rebbe to a survivors, he writes there is no answer and we still believe.
By the way, you never heard of the answer of reb Elchonan Wasserman, Rabbi Miller and the other answer of the Satmar Ruv?
Obviously the Lubavicher and the old Belzer thought their is no answer and we still believe.
Does Belz also say any of the Holocaust Kinnos on Tisha Bav ?
ReplyDeleteIIRC one of them was authored by the Bobover Rebbe Harav Shloime ZT"L. Or the possuk Shma Yisrael after each Tefillo which the Kaliver Rebbe Shlita asks to recite ?
As the Radzyner Rebbe hayad said when asked why his leadership style was different than his father's. He replied untrue I am different than my father and he was different than his father.
ReplyDeleteThe Maharid was leader and askan ziburi among other things. He was not bahalten at all. Rav Aron was not into that sort of leadership.He was a behaltener. Velo Od there were those who wanted some one else to take the nesius after the Maharid's petirah and just make rav Aron the rav not the admor.They felt he was not like his father.
Each geneation especially in this Dor after a Churban much worse than Tach Vetatneeds a new leadership
Did you ever wonder the psychological reasons why rav Aron never spoke of his losses and the attitude you describe, maybe even he , had some serious taaaynos that he prefered not to verbalize ...Or perhaps he felt his followers would not withstand the issues after verbalziing what went on i 1939-1945.
I guess what we can now expect is for the Machnovker group to issue soemthng about Chof Sivan ...
How did the adash say to the reem...the BR is a politikie whose job is a rebbi ....tolna leaks a politikie whose job is a rebbi ....tolna leaks
ReplyDeleteIn my former life as a Belzer I heard from Chasidim in the name from the first Belzer ruv that all Shabos Zemiroth, were written with Ruach Hakodesh. I am curious to know if some ruach hakodesh was injected in to this Piut? Or in todays Belz we need only the dikduk to be perfect, almost like the works of Hidenhiem, and it was probably approved by some psychologist on board.
ReplyDeleteOy Vey, what more Belz is there still left in Belz?
Schneur
ReplyDelete"Velo Od there were those who wanted some one else to take the nesius after the Maharid's petirah and just make rav Aron the rav not the admor.They felt he was not like his father."
you don't understand chasidim and you don't know the history of Belz.
The Belzer Chasidim did not like the style of the Maharid, it took awhile until they agreed to his style of leadership. He was not as Rebish ( if you know what that means)as his father and grandfather. By Chasidim talking Nigleh was a liability not a asset.It was good maybe for exterior PR, bu not for the chasidic soul.
It was never a issue in Belz on the Rebisteve of Reb aron. He was the real Rebbe that chasidim were yearning for. He was considered holier then holy in his fathers lifetime.By the Levaye of Reb Yisocher Dov, the 2nd wife wanted that the Bilugrayer should be the Av Bies Din of Belz. Maybe she heard something from her husband. It is a piece of history that we will never know since it was choked by the "Shtieb Menchen". But even that was stopped on the basis of what Reb Aron said.
Rigidness and non compromise was more part of RYD hanhoge then his father and his son. He was fighting on every new idea that was introduced in Galicia and Hungary, from the Chadurim to the Agudah.
Ploni: I don’t think that the point of this posting is “where was G-d during the Holocaust?” Rather, how do we go about remembering it in the aftermath?
ReplyDeleteHowever just a quick anecdote, the Komarno Rebbe , Rav Boruch hy”d who was himself killed by the Nazis, was asked the “Where is G-d” question in the ghetto . His response (in short) was, we say during the Neilah prayer on Yom Kippur “Ato Hivdalto Enosh Merosh Vatakireihu Laammod Lefonecho” . His translation was, You Hashem has severed the person from his head (questions too great to bear), yet you give him the insight to remain standing firm before you. Very powerful!
Schneur: The personality of Rav Aharon zt”l was probably the most positive answer and guide to the generation of survivors, an example of true acceptance and a revelation of divine power that transcended the ugly face of evil.
At the same time, there were other leaders i.e. the Satmar Rov and Rav Kahaneman among many others who showed the way with unparalleled energy and a positive outlook to rebuilding and setting goals that seemed impossible yet were quite successful.
Schneur
ReplyDelete"As the Radzyner Rebbe hayad said when asked why his leadership style was different than his father's. He replied untrue I am different than my father and he was different than his father."
This statement is good for the revolutionaries of Radzin and Izbca, but it is against the essence of the strict inflexible style of Belz.
When the Radziner was in Belz for his Techleth promotion tour, he rebuked the Reb Yeoshyoa, that you act like a Erliche Yidene with a Korben Micha Sidur, he had no patience for this Tate Zichrono Livroche business.
BTW This Belzer tefilloh is written quite well given the scope of the tragedy, however not very poetic compared to the selichos of the Ashkenazic Rishonim. Why the need to mention Auschwitz, Chełmno, Mathausen , Babi Yar, Bełżec, Sobibor, and Treblinka by name rather than placing a greater emphasis on the lost kehillos, yeshivos, chasidishe hoifen , and an entire Jewish culture of Eastern Europe and, yes we’ll forgive you if you list Belz among them. On the other hand it would open a can of worms as to who was more frum or less, who was included and who wasn’t, who caused the tragic events and who could of saved more lives. The extermination camps surely didn’t discriminate.
ReplyDeleteReb aron Hagodel of Karlin Zemoiros Ko Echsof did not pass the scrutiny of the Rebbe of Belz.There is some fixinf that he did, can someone shed a light on the perfect Nusach.
ReplyDeleteThe irony is, that the Shirt with the Bendlech he did not budge.
i always knew that today's belzer is reform. There is a bautiful alte tfila from R YM FROM NEMIROV FOR 20 SIVAN, WHY TO MAKE A NEW ONE????
ReplyDeleteAnother show off...May be he will come out with a new shmone esrei one day..hey, you never know
Russian Chusid: He made the new one to remember the Holocaust which had not occurred yet when the"beautiful,alte,tefilleh" was composed.Hence the need for something new...
ReplyDeleteThe Belzer Rebiem and Chasidim were davening always in Sidur Ohr haYosher, then along came the great Rebbe of Belz and invented a sidur with the Shivisi on every page. Mystical exhibitionism was chazer trief In Belz. I feel he got that gene from his Hungarian mother. It is no insult to Hungarians, but it is usually their style to flaunt in the face.
ReplyDeleteThe irony is, that the Shirt with the Bendlech he did not budge.
Anonymous.
ReplyDeleteSo I don't know what rebbish is, but everything you write proves my point that the Maharid was different than rav Aron and Rav Aron was different than his nephew. You clearly state that fact.And chances are that in the future other rebebs will be different too.
By the way the Radzyner vort I quoted was used by many other rebbes of different chedorim to make the same point. It has little to do with "Revolutionry Chassidus"
By the time of the last Radzyner rebbe what was revolutionary about Radzyn ?
Satmarer rebbe set goals etc after the war - You are kidding , when the War ended there were over a million displaced Jews in Europe with no place to go except back "home" or Israel. Lefi his Holy shitto Israel was out so they should all go home to Rumania , Germany and Poland.
ReplyDeleteAmerica was accepting very few Jews those days certainly not in the hundreds of thousands.
So where was the care and concern you talk about ?
The ovens in Auschwitz were still hot when RJT organized demionstartions in NYC against Israel , acts that caused Rav Laizer Silver President of Agudas horabbonim to demand putting RJT in chereum. Rav Henkin the recognized posek of American Jewry called him a rodef. The Luabvitcher rebbe refused to meet with a CRC delagation to explain RJT's position.
The Satmarer was only interested in his own tribe and himself.
"The ovens in Auschwitz were still hot when RJT organized demionstartions in NYC against Israel"-shneuer
ReplyDeletewhile the aushwitz ovens were still hot, israel was shmadding up the pitifully few child survivors and beating the #$%^ out of those who fought back. they were also ravaging the jews from the arabs lands, displacing them from there homes, placing them in camps behind barbed wire, stealing their kids and their religion. how long should he have waited to oppose them. until the ovens cooled down? until ben gurion's holy alteluena csnnons cooled off?
btw, while the ovens were still hot the LR was busy fihting for his shver's library, and not doing anything for the jews still in europe either.
B'mechilas kvodo, the piyyut is not very poetic.
ReplyDeleteI am such a fan of Reb Yirmiye's music that if you popped into my place when I leave the audio player on and you didn't see or know me you'd think I was a Belzer.
ReplyDeleteBut I can't follow ONE word of his davening :). Is this the style in Belz?
There is a funny clip of Reb Yirmiye singing Lecha Dodi to Teimani bochurim in their havara and I understand it better than this (I also understand every word sung on any Belz album; after all Creedmoor pronunciation is somewhere between Poilin, Airmont and Sea Gate/Sighet).
Schneur you write wild things in a grobbe fashoin.
ReplyDeleteThe Web is a Pirsum Noyro. You play with fire.
I advise you to go to Monroe and ask Mechila at the Tziyun.
I wouldn't want to find myself having to face this giant after 120 and try justfying my reckless Bizyoinos of him.
R Avrom Kalmanovitz ZL (an expert in Askonus )said Since the Chofetz Chayim ZL he had met a Jew vos zorgtzach far Klal Yisroel vi der Satmarer Rov ZL.
R Osher kalmanowitz his einkl told this to R Zalmen Lieb at
Nichum Availim of the BerachMoshe A"H. R Osher is
Thank G-d alive and well and can be found
at present on the grounds of the Mirrer
Yeshiva. You might ask him about R Avrom's
Kvius with the SR ZL in Ramban Al HaTore every Shabbos morning.
Anon 9:30 ,you have wonderful satiric skills. have you applied to the Onion?
ReplyDeleteBefore you tell people to ask mechileh in Monroe why don't you guys go to the graves of Rav E.Silver,Rav Henkin,The Lubavitcher Rebbe,The Kloizenberger Rebbe,the Vishnitzer Rebbe,and Rav Moshe Feinstein for being metzaer them including ,in some cases,open terror.How about it-have you guys ever admitted to doing anything wrong?So the Rabbis Kalmanowitz liked the SR. What does that prove?The fact is 98% of Litvishe Rabbonim had profound differences of opinion with the SR and that includes Reb Aharon Kotler.Don't threaten anybody for writing historical facts. If we don't write the truth then why do we need this blog?To be another on-line version of "Der Yid?"Did you ever apologize to the Belzer Rebbe after he left the Edah?We're still waiting.Everyone is fair game for your viscious insults but G-d forbid anyone should write the truth about Satmar and their "shitte."
ReplyDeleteAnon
ReplyDelete"R Avrom Kalmanovitz ZL (an expert in Askonus )said Since the Chofetz Chayim ZL he had met a Jew vos zorgtzach far Klal Yisroel vi der Satmarer Rov ZL. "
I will not be as Groib as shneur, but can you explain what did Reb Yoelish do about all the Jews of the Red Shul across the street from 500 bedford and Jews of the white shull on Bedford and Hewes?
Did he worry for theem or their kids should stay Shomrie Torah Umitzvoth.He had no responsibility for a Jew that will not end up in his institutions. He did all he can to destroy the holy Mossad Chinuch atzmoi, a Charadie run educational Network that has a big part in saving torah Jewry in the Medina. The Kalmanowitz(I think they are all brisker today) can come till tomorrow with Chanifa to Satmar, with quotes out of their elbow.But the facts are different, he had a anti Klal Yisroel vision. His Klal Yoisroel was Rodney st and the Ungarishe Hiezer.
Anon
ReplyDelete"You might ask him about R Avrom's
Kvius with the SR ZL in Ramban Al HaTore every Shabbos morning."
it is a lie, it is a lie, may he come in front of a sefer torah and swear I will not believe him. Satmar Ruv did not learn with a Litvak Ramban al Hatorah Shabos morning before davening.Don't forget 1 thing, with all his anti chasidic diatribe, a litvak did not exist as a entity for Hashkofa and derech halimud in his world . If you say different then u have no idea who Reb Yoelish was.
Uri
ReplyDeleteobviously you are outdated with all the new fabrications coming out from their media.
They never fought with nobody it is all the Zionist that claim so, in truth is a comunith of fuzzy teddy bears
Uri
ReplyDeleteI don't know who "you guys" are. But let me say if you want to express your frustration that the "98%
Litvishe"(you're sure its 98.. Does figure fluctuate with the meds?)
had immense respect for him as a godol
despite differing on Klal matters-i feel your
pain. The list of these Rabbonim and verifiable
quotes I can provide is extensive.
You probably would recognize some names
due to your Chofetz Chaim type backround.
and limited insider knowledge of the Oilom Hayeshivos
(Don't know R Henoch's take on the SR..)
I didn't threaten anyone. I addressed Schneur as a fellow
Maymin in Hashoras Hanefesh. I can see how this might confuse you.
onymous said...
ReplyDeleteAnon
"You might ask him about R Avrom's
Kvius with the SR ZL in Ramban Al HaTore every Shabbos morning."
it is a lie, it is a lie, may he come in front of a sefer torah and swear I will not believe him. Satmar Ruv did not learn with a Litvak Ramban al Hatorah Shabos morning before davening.Don't forget 1 thing, with all his anti chasidic diatribe, a litvak did not exist as a entity for Hashkofa and derech halimud in his world . If you say different then u have no idea who Reb Yoelish was."
Summers here. Stop by R Yitchok Lebovich he will verify it. Heard it myself.
You tipped yourself off as another rabid marmerosher Soyne of the SR when you start with the "R Yoilish" lingo.
Its really hilarious. You guys are so easy. Caricatures.
Anon
ReplyDeleteI dont know who you are,
but 1 think I realized that you posses a reserve of quotes of all litvishe gedolim, what they they said on Satmar Ruv. For every SR discussion you produce a livishe quote.
Its about time you should print a Michlol Mamoroim Upisgomim on that subject, in alphabetical order that when ever some anti satmar dialogue occurs, a Satmar quote should be available.
It well be a best seller as the other Sakmar Ruv fiction book of the infamous Con-man Yossel Shienberger Zt"l Oilamos Shechorvi.
Anon
ReplyDeleteI stopped talking to the Woodridger after his ben Mesek Biesoi Rav Kepech decided that the Woodridger is deep deep a maskil and "as another rabid marmerosher Soyne of the SR "
t well be a best seller as the other Sakmar Ruv fiction book of the infamous Con-man Yossel Shienberger Zt"l Oilamos Shechorvi."
ReplyDeleteThe operative word I used was VERFIABLE quotes.
Fargange Veltn would not be the source of choice for myself as well.
First of all you can obtain recordings of Hespedim by
R Y Keminetzky R Schneur Kotler(at the hakomas hamatzeivo)
Rav Shach(ay rabeysay!ozal gavre dmistafinne miney)
Rav Gifter Rav y Segal manchestet for starers.
Your sarcasm doesn't impress me. Answer my question: when are you going to apologize to all the above mentioned gedolei Yisroel for 5 decades of "grobe" attacks in the Yid and other forums? I remember the shmutzike reid from your "tzaddikim" after Entebbe against the Lubavitcher Rebbe. You and "your guys"are such maaminim in hashoras hanefesh-why was there never an apology?I guess you're bigger maaminim in the cult of a certain Rebbe than you are in giving proper kovod to gedolei Yisroel. I won't mention him by name due to the extreme psychological sensitivity of his followers.By the way I caught your insertion of the words"despite differing with him on klal matters."Oh,I guess R. Kalmonowitz the Elder didn't agree with him about the medineh and the three oats. Surprise,surprise!
ReplyDeleteIn the interest of honesty. R Y Kaminetzkys
ReplyDeleteHesped didn't take place without incident. R Alter Moishe almost got himself killed by the Satmarer tzibur when he heckled R Y.
I still believe G-d loves R AM's tmimus.
anon
ReplyDelete"Rav Shach(ay rabeysay!ozal gavre dmistafinne miney)
I saw years ago in the sefer HaZikoron on Reb Duvid of the bachelor that was a Mekurov by Chazon Ish and Brisker Ruv, that he begged Maran to give the hesped. Reb duvid send him 2 chalahs to thank him for the hesped.
Since you are at this hesped, I would like to ask you, if Rav Shach gave some credence to the Satmar ruvs ideas and opinions as he cried with the litvisher nusach of hespedim. Then how did he do the grave sin of creating a new party in the Keneses Haminim, and has send Bnie torah to the Keneseth. He took the passive yeshiva world to be active in the biggest sin since Matan torah. He was fighting for government funds of the Memsheles Hakofrim(am I saying it correct?)it is the 2nd to the biggest sin, he magnified that sin elef Peomim Kochoo.
He would never do it to even a minor Peask of the Chazon Ish?
By Gerers and Visnitzer they are nebech stuck with the Aguda, Masie Avosieni Beyodaini, but to create a new monster of Avoda Zorah Rachmona Litzlan?
His whole hesped is a just words to get a good punch line. Don't get excited.
I thought it was Grohman of London that made the noise?
ReplyDeleteAnon
ReplyDelete"I still believe G-d loves R AM's tmimus."
how about pope Benedict's Temimus?
I saw years ago in the sefer HaZikoron on Reb Duvid of the bachelor that was a Mekurov by Chazon Ish and Brisker Ruv, that he begged Maran to give the hesped. Reb duvid send him 2 chalahs to thank him for the hesped."
ReplyDeleteWhere does it appear in the sefer. I don't see it. Its not mistaber.
I had a Shaychus Eblch"t with R Duvidl. A
Mayse fun a Challe mit a Boydem vos past mer far unzer umfargeslacher R "Yossalleh" S.
"btw, while the ovens were still hot the LR was busy fihting for his shver's library, and not doing anything for the jews still in europe either"
ReplyDeleteWhich shver's Library? Are you smoking? You mean that the Ryatz tried to get out his own library. Obviusly Shneuir meant post H, when you were able to do things at the time of the H, every act was futile. All the action didnt yield anything.
But while Satmar Rov was in Switzerland few hours drive from DP camps while most people were his own landsleit he never visited there. Zilch zero. Where was the "Chafatz Chaim" then?
Anon
ReplyDeleteI saw it like a decade ago and I have no access to it. As long I don't see it again you are correct.
Anon
ReplyDelete"Mayse fun a Challe mit a Boydem vos past mer far unzer umfargeslacher R "Yossalleh" S."
Reb Yosselle created the stories with a Ritva in Moed Koten, or a Gilyan Hashas in Tomid Nischat,
it is a different kind of fiction.
Shivem Punim Leshakronim...Shienberger zt"lwas just 1 of seventy
Anon
ReplyDelete"btw, while the ovens were still hot the LR was busy fihting for his shver's library,"
Did you see 1 letter from the Lubavicher rebbe about the Shvers library in those years?
he wasn't rebbe till 5 years after the war.You can accuse him for printing his Shvers Torah and other seforim in the USA while the war was ravaging.He should of give all the money for RMD Wiessmandel hatzolah work,
Good argument for the day....
Schneur
ReplyDelete"The Luabvitcher rebbe refused to meet with a CRC delagation to explain RJT's position."
in Satmar their are many legends regarding that visit. some claim that the Shoproner and Krasner rabonim were by the LR, some claim the Vaidislover was there. In Lubavich nobody knows about that meeting.
Who knows the truth????
I think the Sigheter was there in 1958 or so...
ReplyDeleteBut while Satmar Rov was in Switzerland few hours drive from DP camps while most people were his own landsleit he never visited there. Zilch zero. Where was the "Chafatz Chaim" then?"
ReplyDeleteI am do not hearken from Carpato-Rus and my view of a
Odom Godol makes allowances that your simplistic one cannot.
I don't know his Matzev Bguf or Bnefesh.
In my eyes that does not diminish him at all.
My view would confuse many a Lubavitcher as well
Hirshel
ReplyDeleteis their a mention in the Stienmetzes letters of the Sigeters meeting with the Rebbe ?
correct you are, that gedolim should not be judged by laymen, then lets shield all Gedolim equally.
ReplyDeleteBut in Satmar they were preaching that nobody is beyond scrutiny,Only in Sadigur the Rebbe is beyond beyond,
"You play with fire.
ReplyDeleteI advise you to go to Monroe and ask Mechila at the Tziyun.
I wouldn't want to find myself having to face this giant after 120 and try justfying my reckless Bizyoinos of him."
-Anon9:30
This is not a threat? This is not an attempt to stifle any criticism of the world-famous shitte through intimidation and psychological warfare?
For every SR discussion you produce a livishe quote."
ReplyDeleteI didn't produce anything. -you were just unaware of the fan base he had in the
Litvishe velt. You thought he was
hated by all except for Satmar and
the Kanoyim. The marmerosher Sonim developed a complete narrative documenting his "rishus".
And suddenly this new info throws in a monkey wrench.
Ask any Litvishe Yungerman you'll
see the respect for the SR. The degree in which they seperate him from
all other rebbes would probably shock you.
Btw you can see R Ruven Grozofsky's Einiklach at the Tziyun
Chof Vov Ov.
Schneur also has to spend about a week at the Ohel in Queens fasting and asking mechila for his amateur historical vertelach about Lubavitch.
ReplyDeleteI stopped talking to the Woodridger after his ben Mesek Biesoi Rav Kepech decided that the Woodridger is deep deep a maskil "
ReplyDeleteWhoa Nellie!
Of all things a maskil?! He's a massive Talmid
Chochom vos Oyrayso KoMarteche Bey.
Always viewed in S Fallsburg with great respect despite his not so gentle broadsides at expense of the
Yeshivisher Velt and Brisk. (Not to mention when he gets started on Chsidim).
Er meynt Ernst un iz a shtarker eygnartiker Baal Havono.
His many sforim are jammed with gilyoinos
and Ho'oress ( "Hehris" for those of you in Rio Linda..)
A baal Mchadesh niflo and a Masmid Otzum.
Not everyone 'gets' him. Especially is wry comments and subtle dry wit.
Anon
ReplyDelete"Btw you can see R Ruven Grozofsky's Einiklach at the Tziyun
Chof Vov Ov."
you just give me the exact time and a sketch of the Grozofsk's I will be their to ask them to read my Kvitel.
Anon
ReplyDelete"Not everyone 'gets' him. Especially is wry comments and subtle dry wit."
not even his son and his talmud muvhak of 35 years.
I know he is very entertaining,and young gullible boys fall for his shtick. But getting deeper in his soul, you detech a bitterness tzuras ein that eats up his fabric.
I know all his Gilyones, I have seen it all,
You just give me the exact time and a sketch of the Grozofsk's I will be
ReplyDeletetheir to ask them to read my Kvitel."
Another fine example of that sophisticated Transylvanian humor.
I doubt you'll understand but they come as
Litvakkess and don't write-read kvitlach. They're not
Satmarer Chsidim. They say kapitlach Tilim and are mispalel.
Oi Vey
ReplyDeleteit is my loss, I will be left with no Kvitel Liener....
Reb Ruven's eyniklach can also be found in Karlin and Chabad, so what does that prove?
ReplyDeleteHirshel
ReplyDeletebig difference, that you don't chap.
In Karlin they do read the Kvitel, but those that visit KJ on 26 of Av, are the real einiklech, since they just say the tehilim...
it is a deep difference....
The name of einikl in chabad ? Still waiting
ReplyDeleteReally threw me for bit I beleived it.
Are you writing a book on Grasovsky? or on Chabad?
ReplyDeleteHirshel, never lied yet, trust him..
אחר קריאת דברי הפייטן נבהלתי לראות איך המחבר מחריז שור וחמור יחדיו החרוזים אינם שקולים והלשון שפת עלגים
ReplyDeleteHirshel, never lied yet, trust him"
ReplyDeleteUr right. I'm wrong for silly comment.
Besides Hirshel let it through. But I am still curious about that einikl!
Re the Marmorisher Sonim of the SR.
ReplyDeleteI recall as a Bochur a Pupener Bocher(today a leading figure on the
Hungarian Chabad scene in Rockland) heard
that the SR once said his 3 Emmese Chsidim
were R Yeedele Rav Segal(UK) and
R Moisharye fraynt. This bochhur remarks
alle voyle yidden nemt er far zich!
Never ceased to amaze!
Anon hater...if the satmar rebbi left switzerland in 1945-6 ,he couldnt get back in.
ReplyDeleteעל זאת אספדה ואילילה,
ReplyDeleteאסלדה בחילה,
מעי מעי אוחילה,
איכה נהיתה בעלזא הקהילה,
לחוכא ואטלולא
All the Chevlei Leideh of all of Anonymous' female forebearers, to the begining of time, are worth his superlative poetic output:
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
על זאת אספדה ואילילה,
אסלדה בחילה,
מעי מעי אוחילה,
איכה נהיתה בעלזא הקהילה,
לחוכא ואטלולא
the best part about it is, it only rhymes in Chasidishe Yiddish, clearly proving once and for all that Litvish (and Lubavitch) havore is Falsh
uri ori ad h'yesod boh!
ReplyDelete"BelzFinAMool said..."
ReplyDeletehey you aint no "BelzFinAMool" but you come close to the 'haskala' belz of today.
It must be noted. This red carpet the
ReplyDeleteLitvishe oylom gives the Satmarer Rov is not based on ideology.
Since the one other that gets similar treatment.
was none other than the Kloizenburger Rov ZL. (Exept in Brisk where
The KR didn't make the cut..)
anon: (Exept in Brisk where
ReplyDeleteThe KR didn't make the cut..)
It took them many years to shed the 'other gedolim' and placate SR! it will take a few more untill they will shed the KR (to many emotions is still involved, but the next dor will judge only the facts witoht emotions attached)
The Satmarer Rov and Klauzenberger Rov both have שו"ת seforim which can be appreciated by anyone with a typical yeshivishe background.
ReplyDeleteMaybe that is part of the reason the Litvishe oilam looks up to these 2 Rebbes more than any other Rebbe postwar.
"Klauzenberger Rov both have שו"ת "
ReplyDeleteGedoli lomdem according to their respodents etc., in todays world they are mostly edited.. and refrences are widely available encyclopidias, internet, etc.but very rarely original! thats why it took years to prepare the KR tshivus, but no one ever denied his gadles in torah! real manhiga yisruael! tazdigim mashpiam,protectors of am yisruel! who can convince am yisuael, or (kaviyuchel) g-d to budge... thats another matter, does any one know how to mesure that??
real manhiga yisruael! tazdigim mashpiam,protectors of am yisruel! who can convince am yisuael, or (kaviyuchel) g-d to budge... thats another matter, does any one know how to mesure that??"
ReplyDeleteReyach Skver noydef heymenu
I just read in the new Lovdcho BeEmess Sefer Toldos of the
ReplyDeleteMachnivker Rebbe ZL. That in Skver Ukraine two brothers - sons of R Itzikl- and later
the uncle R Duvidl and nephew R Yosef Mayer(later Machnivker) operated seperate Rebbishe hoyfn for years.
Bsholem Vshalvo! Wonder if the next thing they burn in Skver will be this Sefer.
Anon
ReplyDelete"thats why it took years to prepare the KR tshivus,"
it is untrue, it was printed very fast after his petirah.
anon says "it is untrue" try to find the manuscripts and comapare to the print..
ReplyDeleteThe Satmarer Rov and Klauzenberger Rov both have שו"ת seforim which can be appreciated by anyone with a typical yeshivishe background.
ReplyDeleteMaybe that is part of the reason the Litvishe oilam looks up to these 2 Rebbes more than any other Rebbe postwar"
The respect was there BChayim Chiyusom.
In truth you could say that the SR and
KR had more in common than any other
Rebbes of the time. Its ironic but
if you think about it its true. If you list the unique
Maylos of the SR most by far apply to the KR.
This is why its easy for R Aron of KJ to make overtures to both Klausenberger brothers without internal Aroini opposition since they're viewed as "di zelbe sort yidden"
I fully agree completely
ReplyDeleteGreat blog post!
ReplyDeleteThat was a truly good read!
ReplyDeleteAn all 'round well written post..
ReplyDeleteThis may be the best piece of writing I have seen..
ReplyDelete