(a taste of what I deal with)
Dear Reb Hirshel,
I am a frequent reader of your blog and of course I immensely enjoy what you write. I was wondering, if you can clarify certain suspicions I have about Chabad. I have been told, that as there isn’t really just דצח''מ in the world. There is another category called “Chossid”. This is how I understand it: just like a flower does not incorporate a דומם; when it rots, it disintegrates, so to a Lubavitcher is not כולל what other Yidden possess. He is a distinct entity. This can mean many things. It might mean that you guys just look differently. You people have decorations on your yarmulkas, straddle the gartle above your heart, wear colorful and different type of clothing (including the women, vedal), smash your fedoras, etc. However, that is only the outer trimmings, and since Chabad is all about “pnimiyus”, I am sure that it runs much deeper. Obviously, you assert that it is all about תורת חב''ד. Meaning, unlike the חג''ת/Paylisher who are more emotional, you guys are all about using the head. תורת חב''ד, from what I understand, is about bringing the Kabalistic concepts to the fore in a way that can be understood by the sechel. When a Yid has a deeper and broader understanding of the Creator and the soul(s) of a Yid, one can automatically serve הקב''ה better.
Also, the emphasis is on serving the Aibeshter, not on using the learning ח''ו to feel accomplished and to get a sipuk; therefore, a true Chossid doesn’t feel any “Yeshus”, even when he understands the Rebbe’s mamorim better than the other guy, he doesn’t feel any pride! Compare that to ‘you-know-who’, who even when they learn מוסר בהתפעלות it is all about self-interest, right? All this rhetoric is helpful to understand what makes a true Lubavitcher tick. Ok, I understand that. But just tell me one thing, does my plumber who chants three chapters of Rambam daily, or the guy behind the counter in the pizza store with his pamphlet with Steinsaltz gemara and stories from the FR, really have any understanding of chassidus? Can they convincingly make the argument that it is more than “chakira with Kabalistic terminology” (farkert from Maharal), or not?
I await your response.
76 comments:
i'm having a hard time with this one.
the over simplification of chaba"d.
where do i start? how about starting with the chanting plumber?
hmm, the chanting plumber, the chanting plumber.
let's seee. He does chant, you say.
would you say that maybe 15% of what he learns daily he understands?
let's move on to Tanya (assuming he does his Chita"severy day.
does he get the gist of a percentage of his daily chant?
since you are so knowledgable about chaba"d, have you ever heard the story of alter rebbe and reb Pinchas Koritzer with the rolling in the wind ksovim?
so maybe chanting plumber hasn't reached the pinnicale of chabad chassidus, but do yourself a favor. next time above mentoned plumber unclogs your drain, try chapping a shmooze with him. oh! just one more thing. try not to be too condecending.
I'm the guy who stands behind the counter in the pizza shop, why don't you come have a chat with me?
I'm the guy who stands behind the counter in the pizza shop, why don't you come have a chat with me?
btw, i forgot to mention that the plumbers learning is more lishmoh than your rosh ha'yeshivah's.
Just as not "everyone" from certain kehilos is cut out for learning 3 sdorim a day in kollel. So too not everyone is cut out to be a great intellecual
BWAAAA HAAA HAAA
@holtzklapper. Define לשמה.
אגלי טל זיסע, לא לשם הגדלת שמו בכל עולם הישיבות. ולא לשם דבר אחר. רק לעשות רצון אביו שבשמים. חביבי
Chabad is different from what chabad claims to be. A walk down kingston avenue reveals as much.
You will be hard pressed to find a REAL chabad CHOSSID like existed 30-50 years ago. Most are as you wrote, only chabad as much as chabad in looks. No one can internalize Toras Chabad.
Chabad was NOT meant to be a chassidus for the masses. This changed with the 7th rebbe. Tanya was turned into a kiruv book that everyone thinks they understand.
The Baal HaTanya wrote only for an elite class. Chabad was always an elite group.
The bums with colored shirts and stylish sunglasses and smart phones and short kapotes would not be chabad chassidim in any earlier generation.
i have a hard time believing this wasn't written by a current or former chabad'nik trying to be cute. he's too much into the chabad native dialect to really be an outsider.
http://shofar.tv/uploads/files/kontras.pdf
Here is what comes out of todays Chagas. Dumb down the kids as much as you can. Hit them to so they will have emunah peshuta.
No, I am not a former Lubavitcher.
I am just an outsider trying to make some sense of what I observe.
BTW, the pizza is mediocre (as long as it's חלב ישראל)
Dear Readers, I am writing not to answer the writer of this letter,as he is not waiting for answer,[despite what he claims in his letter]. Rather,I address this letter to any innocent bystander reading this letter who may be 'drawn in' by the observations and arguements of the writer.
Having grown up in a Frum but not Chabad environment,and also having gone through some life experience, I have become quite astoute regarding very subtle and seemingly 'elegant' but malicious attacks on Lubavitch. Having said that, let me explain the real intentions of the author of this letter.
Let us start from the beginning. The author writes that he heared of a notion that there is a higher level of DaTzCham called a Chabad Chossid. I am a middle aged Chabad Chossid, who went through the Chabad system since 17 years old and is still totally with the progra. I never heard of such nonsence-it is pure Letzonos on the author's part. He writes that 'Letzonos', as a form of introduction to theme of his letter, which is to show that Chabad is trash. In order to accentuate that point- he starts off by saying that Chabad considers themselves far superior than everyone else as a way of Letzonos.Immediately he starts off by showing how much he knows about the so called weaknesses of the community. The writer knows that over the years Chabad has become a very diverse community, including from the 'very Chassidish' until the more, so-called 'modern'. Cowardly he attacks the modern segment of the community. He is attempting to put Chabad in a bad light and on the defence.The writer cannot even afford to admire a Lubavitcher Baal Habayis who works honestly by selling Pizza who has his D'Var Malchus [with the Steinzaltz Gemorah in it]handy incase he has a few minutes to spare to learn some Torah. {by the way at this point that he mentions Steinzaltz with disdain gives away who his Godol was VeDal). Similarly he makes fun of the honest Lubavitcher plumber 'who chants the three Chapters of Rambam dicrediting him and making fun of learning Rambam at the same time.
In order to 'Sugar-coat' all this Letzonos he shows off his 'knowledge' of Derech Hachassidus (both Chabad and Chagas) vis-a-vis Derech Hamussar. Nu nu, in Tehillim Dovid Hamelech says in Chapter 1 Uvemoshav Leitzim Lo Yoshav. Vedai Lechakima Beremiza.
On another note to anyone reading so- called YAPTCHIK comment, as with the author of the letter I will not steep so low as to address him directly, rather I direct my comment to any innocent bystander reading his comment and thinks that maybe he is being sincere and has a point. This is not the case.Again bashing the more modern segment of the community-a cowardly tactict on his part. I am appauled of the insults he hurls at these so-called modern Lubavitchers. Mamash Shogur Pepiv. (Feh to him!) If that wasn't enough he tells us that he knows better than the Rebbe of what the Alter Rebbe wanted when he wrote the Tanya. Not what the 7th Rebbe did etc., Wow now he knows better than the Rebbe what to do with the Tanya and Chabad.YAPTCHICK must be a VERY CHOSHUVEH YID to argue on the Lubavitcher Rebbe. Maybe we should give him a PIDYON NEFESH that he and the author of the letter should either do Teshuvah or have a Refuah Sheleimah. The Mishnah in the end of Peah says that BEIKVASA DEMESHICHA CHUTZPAH YAZGEH. The author and Yaptchik have just hastened the coming of Mashiach through Chutzpah Yazgeh-Nu they are also part of the Mashiach campaign, Nebuch!
Gotta be koshered at 212
ראה מהותם של ישראל להגר"י כאהן שליט"א בנוגע להדרגא החמישי שמעל הדצח"מ ותרווה נח"ר. דברים נפלאים ומוסברים בטוב טעם ודעת. מסתמא החיבור הכי מוצלח של ר' יואלת, לא כן? ג
לכבוד ר'שלמה זלמן שיחי' במחילת כבודו ותורתו ההוא שכתב את המכתב הזה לא מתחשב עם. ר' יואל כהן שליט"א, לא מיניה ולא מקצתיה. וטוב לא ללמד אנשים כאלו מושגים שהם משתמשים אתם לנגדינו. ובלשון הקבלה ענין של יניקת החיצונים וד"ל.
In other words you are admitting that the charges stick. It was just supposed to stay private.
New to the scene gave us all a lecture already that besides chabad we all got our avofas Hashem wrong.
WELSEY:
אם היית עובר על מאמר הנ"ל לא היית כותב את מה שכתבת.
מאמרו הנפלא של ר' יואל:
http://www.otzar.org/wotzar/book.aspx?26951
To "Not a Harry". You either have trouble understanding Hebrew or as Chazal say אהבה מקלקלת את השורה. Nothing could be further from the truth than what you write. If you are a true מבקש ,sincere and not cynical, read my first post written in English that though rather long, sheds light on this whole matter. If you already made your mind up that trashing Chabad is the way to go, then I cannot be of help to you.
There were very fundamental questions raised in this and several other recent posts that have not gotten coherent answers.
Do you believe that chabad is the only ideal way to be a oved Hashem.
Don't call it יניקת החיצונים if R Yoel basically says that Chasidus is great but chabad is the real truth וכדומה.
While you are at it. Please explain why the Rebbe created a position called נשיא הדור for his shver that needed filling after the Rayatz was nifter and doesn't after his own פטירה.
Based on his own criteria there is someone filling that role now. Just as the whole theology about משיח שבדורינו shouldn't לשיטתכם change.
Wesley Hills, your obfuscation and intellectual dishonesty shine through as you have already been called out by your own coreligionists.
The most honest guy in the discussion here is the host, and he's kept quiet.
we all have our "intellectual honesty" issues.
@hirshel +1
While we're at it. Can someone tell me why the "godol" who was just nifter was subject to an awful lot of mkarving by persons close to him that wanted to save his soul. Vus iz shlechtz he lived as a novardiker for 90% of his life...
1. why "Godol", why not Godol?
2. A Novardoker should have no issues or beefs with others wanting to save his soul. Turnabout is fair play.
I didn't say he complained. But it demonstrate a view that he was lacking in avodas Hashem and needed the kiruv
like I said, TIFP.
בעיקר novardik saved kids from the street and haskolo. I new a yid from siget that learnt in novardik.
b'ikker. But a bochur who didn't learn mussar was considered a חות דרגא
In פרשיסחא they learned חובות הלבבות
Yapchic
"You will be hard pressed to find a REAL chabad CHOSSID like existed 30-50 years ago."
so the chabad of 40 years ago was good, gevaldig,?
Was then everybody in shul davening like Reb Avrohom Mayorer?
Then there were no chabadniks working in Pizza shops? butcher shops? truck driver?
Btw, do you know the chabad truck driver rav Lash?
Did you ever hear his shiur on rambam Kidush Hachodesh?
All (I mean all, even YCM Friedman who used to work in the post office) Rabonim in willi donning the wide brimmed hats with the fat behinds from the rebetzins hiemishe kokosh cake, will never be able to polish this brown shirted man with brown working shoes.
This is what the alte rebbe wanted....he is doing the kavona elyona....
Please go search for him and many others like him and ask their apology.
The snide remarks about peoples financial occupations obscured the actual discussion of the substantive issues.
I guess when toameha is over the children will leave.
קטע ממכתב כ"ק אדמו"ר זי"ע
ח) מה שבא בטענה, מפני מה אומרים, שרק חב"ד היא דרך נכונה. – הנה פסק הרמב"ם הוא, שכותב (הלכות יסודי התורה ריש פרק ב') הא-ל הנכבד והנורא מצוה לאהבה וליראה אותו (ועיין בהקדמת ספר החינוך שהיא מצוה תמידית, על כאו"א בכל מקום ובכל זמן, ורק שש מצות ישנן כאלה, עיי"ש) והאיך היא הדרך לאהבתו וליראתו, בשעה שיתבונן האדם כו' ויראה מהם חכמתו שאין לה ערך ולא קץ כו', אשר לשון הרמב"ם מדוייק, וכשכותב שיתבונן, הרי פירוש המלה, לימוד שכלי בהבנה והשגה עד שיבוא לאהבה, וע"ד שאר האהבות שמורגשות בלב ורואים במוחש, ולימוד שכלי בקדושה בבריאת העולמות כו' וכפי שביאר האריז"ל, המקובל על כל ישראל, הך מהחסידים והן מהעולמות'שע וכמפורסם, הוא דוקא ע"י לימוד אופן ההשתלשלות העולמות עניני הספירות וכו', ולפלא שכנראה לא התבונן במה שהביא בזה הרח"ו בשער ההקדמות, אשר לימוד זה הוא תכלית בריאת העולם, ובו תלוי הגאולה האמיתית והשלימה, וכמ"ש גם הגר"א הועתק בס' אדו שלמה, שמזה מובן עד כמה תמוה הדבר ומבהיל, שאלו המתימרים לומר שהם תלמידי הגר"א והולכים בעקבותיו כו' וכו' ובטח נודע להם מאמר הגר"א האמור, ובכ"ז מונעים מלימוד פנימיות התורה באופן השגה אשר גם לדברי הגר"א מחיוב לעסוק בזה כל אחד מישראל ובזה תלוי ביאת משיח צדקינו.
המורם מכל האמור, כלך לך מדרך הקושיות וכו' ויקבע שיעור בלימוד פנימיות התורה בהקדם היותר אפשרי, ובהקדמת נעשה לנשמע (פירושו הבנה) ואז במשך הזמן יבוא ג"כ להבנה והשגה, וע"י [שיתחיל] בלימוד הנ"ל יקרב קץ גלותנו וכידוע מאמר משיח מלכא להבעש"ט, לכשיפוצו מעינותיך חוצה, יבוא.
המכתב בשלימותו
http://www.lahak.org/pdf2/5774/m-19-kislev-5734-pp.pdf
בסוף הקונטרס
נו נו בסדר
Your fundamental mistake is thinking that only תורת חבד is genuine פנימיות התורה.
Let's reframe that. Do you Lubavitcher chasidim believe that anything besides chabad is pnimiyus hatorah equal to toras chabad?
I believe you don't.
There are sichos of the Rebbe explaining the chiddush of the Alter Rebbe - חסידות חב"ד over the Ba'al Shem Tov - חסידות הכללית. If you are truly interested, look 'em up. If you have a opinion you are not interested in changing, have a great day.
Let's reframe that:
Do -any- chasidim believe that anything besides chassidus habaal shem tov is pnimiyus hatorah (i.e. kabbala) equal to toras hachassidus?
No.
Why?
Because there is a chiddush in toras haBaal Shem Tov over zohar and kisvei haArizal.
So why does it bother you to say that there is a chiddush in chassidus chabad over chassidus haklalis?
How about dikduk במצות... I dovened for an extended period by 2 hashuva חבד minyonim on שבת... Because of lateness) and i can tell u that 80% are learning in חזרת הש׳ץ , completly against the mishna brura and BaL HATAnYA
To בדברי רבינו: Please. Read: Not a Harry, Yapchic,'s comments. זיי פארשטיין בעסער ווי דער רבי. דהיינו, דער רבי זאגט אז חב"ד חסידות איז פנימיות התורה און זיי קריגענזיך מיט דעם רבי'ן ווייל זיי פארשטיין א סאך בעסער ווי דער רבי וואס הייסט פנימיות התורה,חסידות און קבלה.אשר על כן,פרעג איך דיר וואס איז דער מטרה פון וויזען זיי א שיחה פון רבין בשעת עס פעלט זיי דרך ארץ פאר'ן נשיא דורינו. במילא .וועסט דו מיר זאגען אז דער מטרה פון דיין רייד איז להוציא מליבן
Your rebbes letter does NOT say that chabad Chasidus is פנימיות התורה. Rather he set a definition of פנימיות התורה. Which if you ever read the שער בלאט of and hakdomo, תניא comes to be מרחיב the תורת המהר"ל. Therefore, לשיטתו there is plenty of פנימיות התורה out there that is not chabad. He also does not say that toras chabad is superior to תורת החסידות בכלל לדורותיה.
Your rebbe was so poorly understood when alive and it's only getting worse.
@Chabad Chossid of Wesley Hills
ביסט גערעכט
But, hopefully these people will see that בלי גוזמא- 99.9%- of their questions were asked to and answered by the Rebbe.
If they would be -truly- interested they would look it up.
If they have a opinion they don't want to change, at least be honest about it.
ט"ס
משנת המהר"ל היא לא במפורש
Dear Wesley,
I am appalled by your insinuation that I was making ליצנות. Nothing can be farther from the truth.
I would like an answer to my questions. Maybe I should ask my plumber...
Not a Harry said...
Therefore, לשיטתו there is plenty of פנימיות התורה out there that is not chabad. He also does not say that toras chabad is superior to תורת החסידות בכלל לדורותיה.
Again and again, YES! there is פנימיות התורה besides for תורת החסידות in general (and חב"ד.)
זוהר is פנימיות התורה
כתבי האריז"ל is פנימיות התורה
No one is arguing on that (לא בשופטני עסקינן)
-However- no one argues that there is a חידוש in תורת הבעש"ט over קבלה. In other words -even though זוהר וכו is פנימיות התורה- you are lacking if you don't learn תורת החסידות [after it was נתגלה]
(Again לא בשופטני עסקינן)
So too, after the בעש"ט came another חידוש called חסידות חב"ד.
It has a חידוש over חסידות הכללית.
(For exact explanation learn the שיחות)
Now please explain to me what's the problem with saying this.
"I would like an answer to my questions. Maybe I should ask my plumber."
NO ליצנות at all.......
קאט די קראפ
What happened to my previous comment?
please post it.
Reb Hirsh where is your respect for the Rebbe?
Anyone else can write whatever they want but posts defending Chabad against uneducated attacks you don't allow?
I posted all your comments, בדברי רבינו
ביטע זייט מיר נישט חושד
Sorry, I messed up publishing it.
ומבקש סליחת כת"ר
Here it is:
Not a Harry said...
Therefore, לשיטתו there is plenty of פנימיות התורה out there that is not chabad...
Again and again, YES! there is פנימיות התורה besides for חסידות חב"ד. YES! There is פנימיות התורה besides for חסידות הכללית a.k.a. תורת הבעש"ט.
No one argues that זוהר is פנימיות התורה.
No one argues that כתבי האריז"ל is פנימיות התורה
(לא בשופטני עסקינן)
Nevertheless, no one will argue that there is a חידוש of the בעש"ט over זוהר and כתבי האריז"ל Therefore, if one only learns kabbala [after the Baal Shem Tov was nisgale], he is missing something.
So too, after the בעש"ט came another חידוש - known as חסידות חב"ד.
It has a חידוש that תורת החסידות בכלל לדורותיה doesn't have.
(To understand exactly the חידוש is, look up the sichos in likkutei sichos)
Please explain any problem you have with this.
Not a Harry said...
Your rebbe was so poorly understood when alive and it's only getting worse
intresting....
Reb Yoel -vechulu- who spent hundreds and hundreds of hours on the Rebbe's torah, poorly understand the Rebbe.
But this chuchom from the mah nishtana, who kam kam looked in a likkutei sichos (forget about toras menachem, igros, reshimos - maybe when he was bored once) knows the kavonno of the Rebbe.
Aha.....
I call upon all the readers to face the truth regarding what reader's write's comments asking regarding his concerns regarding חב"ד. If he indeed would be (as he claims to be ) a true מבקש he could have (A) Asked the questions omitting all the malicious comments about the Pizza worker, the colored Yarmulkes, the colored clothing including the hit on the plumber and the Limud Harambam (which I remember the Rebbe requesting it).etc. etc.,
(B) The way the questions were asked and the questions themselves were at best cynical if not nonsense. I appeal to the Choshuveh readers who read this Blog to disregard his comments and so comments
from Not a Harry. These people are having us on. Such נידעריגקייט. And by the way,.wearing the Gartel high has a real Mekor, both in נגלה and נסתר but I refuse to give it to them, they
don't deserve it. We should not give them the הנאה that we רעכענזיך with them.
(בלשון הקבלה והחסידות -יניקת החיצונים )
I made no snide comments. Read carefully.
The letter from the Lubavitcher Rebbe said to learn פנימיות התורה.
We have gotten clarification that the definitions of פנימיות התורה is rather wide.
Wesley Hills taynes that there is a חידוש in תורת חבד not found elsewhere. Granted.
The question is whether or not there is a superiority intrinsically , or if you guys think so.
In the בעל התניא 's own words. No sefer is totally שוה לכל נפש and he came to shed light on the תורה of צדיקים that preceeded him.
Being that the case. Numerous ספרים / דרכים contain those ingredients
וכל א' ילמוד מה שליבו חפץ ובלבד שיכון ליבו לשמים
I didn't say anything about anybodys occupation or mannerisms.
Agav, by the peylishe there is a large "minyan" of those who wear their gartel rather high...
"Wesley Hills taynes that there is a חידוש in תורת חבד not found elsewhere. Granted.
The question is whether or not there is a superiority intrinsically , or if you guys think so."
Explain exactly what you mean by "superiority".
It has something not found elsewhere.
Does that not make it -to a certain extent- "superior"
If not what does?
In other words: What exactly do you think that we think about חג"ת that you don't like?
"In the בעל התניא 's own words. No sefer is totally שוה לכל נפש and he came to shed light on the תורה of צדיקים that preceeded him.
Being that the case. Numerous ספרים / דרכים contain those ingredients"
Wow wow wow! That's taking words out of context to an extreme!
Does the בעל התניא not write --immediately after the words you quoted-- that תניא is שוה לכל נפש and other ספרים/דרכים do not contain those ingredients?
Correct me if I understood wrong.
"וכל א' ילמוד מה שליבו חפץ ובלבד שיכון ליבו לשמים"
You stubbornly do not want to get the point.
G-d A-lmighty decided that a certain דור is going to get פנימיות התורה. Then some yukel comes and screams "ובלבד וכו". I think G-d gave it to us then for a good reason, no?
For some odd reason רח"ו (and the גר"א) didn't say "ובלבד וכו"
They said
אשר לימוד זה הוא תכלית בריאת " העולם,
"ובו תלוי הגאולה האמיתית והשלימה
as quoted in the Rebbe's letter above.
Some generations later, G-d A-lmighty choose to be מגלה תורת חסידות ע"י הבעש"ט.
A bit after that, He gave us חסידות חב"ד.
So if G-d has a good reason, it applies to everyone, no?
Reb "Not a Harry", there is a bit of a problem here.
The problem is, that although you (and many others) claim to have questions, you do not.
You have answers.
Meaning to say:
You (probably) grew up in a home/environment/yeshiva etc. which involved a lot of Chabad bashing (or it was your own conclusions).
You grew up.
You realized that some/most of it is not true.
However you can't just go and start learning חסידות חב"ד. It doesn't feel right. Your upbringing etc etc (or any other reason you might have)...
So you find "questions"
1)Lubavitchers claim superiority.
2)What about all other Yidden?
3)Maybe even "they claim their Rebbe is moshiach"
4)How about "they don't keep halacha"
5)Etc. etc. etc.
So these are all in reality, answers.
You do not want them to be knocked off.
You are not anything close to a מבקש
You are trying to defend yourself/your way of life.
If not, why do you not ask for the sichos in לקו"ש and the אג"ק that discuss your "questions".
The Rebbe answered all of them.
Because my dear Reb "Not a Harry", you don't want a answer.
Reb "Not a Harry", there is a bit of a problem here.
The problem is, that although you (and many others) claim to have questions, you do not.
You have answers.
Meaning to say:
You (probably) grew up in a home/environment/yeshiva etc. which involved a lot of Chabad bashing (or it was your own conclusions).
You grew up.
You realized that some/most of it is not true.
However you can't just go and start learning חסידות חב"ד. It doesn't feel right. Your upbringing etc etc (or any other reason you might have)...
So you find "questions"
1)Lubavitchers claim superiority.
2)What about all other Yidden?
3)Maybe even "they claim their Rebbe is moshiach"
4)How about "they don't keep halacha"
5)Etc. etc. etc.
So these are all in reality, answers.
You do not want them to be knocked off.
You are not anything close to a מבקש
You are trying to defend yourself/your way of life.
If not, why do you not ask for the sichos in לקו"ש and the אג"ק that discuss your "questions".
The Rebbe answered all of them.
Because my dear Reb "Not a Harry", you don't want a answer.
Not a Harry
"Your rebbe was so poorly understood when alive and it's only getting worse. "
the Rebbe published 39 volumes Likutie Sichas, is there 1 likut that is not clear to you?
The Rebbe wrote a masterpiece on the Hagadah, is there 1 piece that is not clear to you?
The Rebbe published the Hayom Yom/Minhogai chabad, is there 1 piece that is not clear to you?
the Rebbe published 6 volumes Mamorim, is there 1 piece that is not clear to you?
The Rebbe wrote Igrois Kloli printed in the 2 volumes Igrois Melech, is there 1 letter that is not clear to you?
I am listing only Rebbes works that went thru his hands to publish for the public, We would all appreciate if you come back with some poor understandings on the above
Not a Harry
"Your rebbe was so poorly understood when alive and it's only getting worse. "
The Rebbe fought against Miu Yehudi, that goyim should not get Reform or Conservative conversion and be listed as Jews, is their some confusion there that needs clarity?
The Rebbe fought fictional Giurie Vienne, is their some confusion there that needs clarity?
The Rebbe fought the concept of not returning land to Arabs, and bring them closer to the inner cities to throw rockets in our midst,is their some confusion there that needs clarity?
The Rebbe saw that all peace agreements just brought bloodshed,is their some confusion there that needs clarity?
The rebbe fought against saying on modern Israel Aschalta Degeula, is their some confusion there that needs clarity?
The Rebbe fought assimilation worldwide,is their some confusion there that needs clarity?
please give me a issue that was confusing, that a explanation is needed
Not a Harry
"Your rebbes letter does NOT say that chabad Chasidus is פנימיות התורה. Rather he set a definition of פנימיות התורה. Which if you ever read the שער בלאט of and hakdomo, תניא comes to be מרחיב the תורת המהר"ל."
the Alte rebbe writes that he is מרחיב the תורת המהר"ל."?
its a legend by chasidim, its ironic that you chose to believe 1 legend vs, 1000 others....
so much for truth searching
not a Harry
"מה שבא בטענה, מפני מה אומרים, שרק חב"ד היא דרך נכונה. – הנה פסק הרמב"ם הוא, שכותב (הלכות יסודי התורה ריש פרק ב') הא-ל הנכבד והנורא מצוה לאהבה וליראה אותו (ועיין בהקדמת ספר החינוך שהיא מצוה תמידית, על כאו"א בכל מקום ובכל זמן, ורק שש מצות ישנן כאלה, עיי"ש) והאיך היא הדרך לאהבתו וליראתו, בשעה שיתבונן האדם כו' ויראה מהם חכמתו שאין לה ערך ולא קץ כו', אשר לשון הרמב"ם מדוייק, וכשכותב שיתבונן, הרי פירוש המלה, לימוד שכלי בהבנה והשגה עד שיבוא לאהבה, וע"ד שאר האהבות שמורגשות בלב ורואים במוחש, ולימוד שכלי בקדושה בבריאת העולמות כו' וכפי שביאר האריז"ל, המקובל על כל ישראל, "
The Rebbe explains why Chabad is superior, since the Rambam writes as a pesak Halocha that Ahavas hashem you gain only thru Hisbonenois meaning לימוד שכלי בהבנה, so chabad is the only torah that fulfills that criteria.
For instance the school of Zidichoiv was against using any sechel in Kabola, they are adamant against it. the Rebbe did not find in the world of the Chasidus Habesht that were ready to learn Penimius hatorah in the same style as a brisker learns a piece of Kodshim....
you can disagree that Sechel is not needed, as the Kalisker was against the AR, you are in good company.
יש בו משום חידוש does not equal superior.
לשיטתכם the Rebbes standard of פנימיות התורה is to be found elsewhere.
What I wrote about him being misunderstood was with regard to the posted letter being mangled. No comment on the rest of those who learn his ספרים.
Not a Harry
לשיטתכם" the Rebbes standard of פנימיות התורה is to be found elsewhere."
There is no question that the rebbe knew about ashlag, reshash zidichoiv etc... nobody knew other ways in Kabala more then the Rebbe, but the rebbe is explaining his view of Chabads exceptionialsim that to get to the ahava veyira on the Rambams path which is exclusively beoifen sichli, you can only get via learning Peninimus hatorah the AR derech....
You can argue that sechel is not needed, there are other shitas, but the Rebbes view is that the ultimate goal is the ahava veyirah of the Rambam, and there is only 1 way to achieve it.
Why is this being chewed again and again, the rebbe writes very clear his view
Not a Harry
"What I wrote about him being misunderstood was with regard to the posted letter being mangled"
which word is mangled?
I repeat:
Reb "Not a Harry" does not have questions. He has a opinion he does not want to and will not change.
If he truly was a מבקש he would learn the subject thoroughly.
The letter above is not the whole סוגיא. It contains the נקודה. You can not write a full סוגיא in one short letter.
So please, the one who is campaigning "As long as you are up front about it", be "intellectually honest" and admit that you will never change your opinion, no matter what is said.
(By the way everyone should read the full letter. It is very geshmak and interesting. It is the Rebbe's answers to many of the "questions" people have on Chabad.
Including משנה ברורה vs שו"ע אדה"ז etc.)
CBA: doesn't Rambam write that through learning Torah and through studying the briyah (not in that order) one can achieve אהבה ויראה? Are you equating a frum scientist with a chossid?
אמן
@Not a Harry
You are avoiding admitting you are ח"ו wrong......
If you have something substantial to say, say it!
Cynicism will not help.
"Intellectually honest" indeed!
It is with great interest that I follow the recent comments posted regarding the' טענות' levied against חב"ד by not a Harry and Readers write, biased and bigoted to the maximum. Definitely a product of their surroundings and
upbringing. Nu, I give בדברי רבינו and Chaos Baal Agula a big יישר כח for their patience and intelligence, but at the same time I see that the other side have a general negative pre-conceived notion against חב"ד, shackles of dislike which they cannot rid themselves of
ליידער, ironically their situation is explained in שמירת by the חפץ חיים ז"ל, that it is hard to rid oneself from negative reports. כ"ש וק"ו when one is raised do hate and dislike חב"ד. The המון עם in the so-called Yeshivishe world never gave חב"ד the benefit of the doubt or a chance to explain misconceptions, evil rumors and reports which were spread about them. I guess all the laws of לשון הרע and רכילות don't apply when dealing with חב"ד.
In this post I would like to discuss the point raised against חב"ד by people who ר"ל call themselves לוחמים and opponents of חב"ד regarding their superiority complex which חב"ד have. Before I even start dealing with that point, I have to tell you that my life-experience has taught me that for good or for bad the מציות is that כמעט every אידישע קרייז has that feeling of superiority for whatever their reasons may be. It is unfair to point at חב"ד to be יחידים in this. What I can tell you that dispite the fact that חב"ד has a feeling that their דרך and חסידות is superior than others, חב"ד is much more accepting, patient
and tolerant towards others, than others
towards them. As no longer a young member of the חב"ד community, I would like to offer some free advice to the younger members of חב"ד. When dealing with discussions regarding חב"ד, you should make a few points clear before you start:
(1) The discussion had to be limited to a תורה'דיג intelligent questions and answers and not a political discussion.
(2) If you feel hostility or לצנות from them walk away from them. You are waisting your time.
(3) Many times they ask questions when they already have their own answers ready to argue with your answers. They only 'asked' in order to seem innocent at the onset of the discussion that you should make yourself available to be attacked by them. It is an old dirty tactic of theirs. They will never be מקבל what you say anyway.
(4) The real שונאים are not נתפעל from your intelligent reasoning, למדות, ערנסטקייט or anything else. שנאה מקלקלת את השואה.
They were already pre-warned by their mentors for many years.
Again a big יישר כח to בדברי רבינו and Chosid Baa AguIa for their patience in explaining the words of the Rebbeim to such narrowmindedness, if not hostility and political agenda.
I feel that I have to add an important נקודה
regarding the מעלה of חסידות חב"ד as
explained by the Rebbe on a number of
occasions. Obviously when a person learns Torah he becomes affected in a positive way, and benefits from his learning. למשל if he learns הלכות,he actually benefits from his learning in a practical way. Likewise if he learns ש"ס ופוסקים and he learns it with the right intentions it makes a tremendous impression on the person לטובה. Likewise learning חסידות and קבלה stam (even without חב"ד) may also be beneficial. The אויפטו of חב"ד is a step further than just plain benefiting from the learning. It is taking very high רוחניות concepts which are thoroughly explained by the Rebbeim, which a person should learn and review many times until it is ingrained in his head and should contemplate (התבוננות) then this becomes much more than plain beneficial. It is what the Rebbe called מתפרנסין מיניה.He actually totally and utterly lives off this experience- not just plain 'benefits' as he would without the חב"ד input.
דו האלצט בא זאך אין יאך האלט בא מאך
Should you ever choose to rejoin mainstream orthodox Judaism I will welcome you with open arms.
Lubavitchers really,really don't like to be criticized.They can become very nasty.
Worst offender is Hirshels side kick gevorener who changes names all the time and gives Chabad a bad name
Not a Harry
"Should you ever choose to rejoin mainstream orthodox Judaism I will welcome you with open arms. "
Where exactly is Mainsream?
Lee ave? 13th ave?
rechov reb akiva?
Hapeles?
Yated?
der Yid?
der blatt?
bnie Yoel?
Vachtfogel/Kalmanovitz flatbush?
You can keep them all, and never ever leave...
I will rather drive my truck with a blue shirt and working boots when its cold.....and think over a sicha of the Rebbe on the Mishkan...
Sruly
Satmar with its 3 weekly mouthpieces welcomes critics open and warmly, there is no problem in satmar to think that the 3 oaths are nonsense and a Ikar in Yahadus?
We all saw the tolerance level for dissent in the so called yeshiva world in the last few decades.
Gevorener geborener its all new ways of kicking the chabad bucket
Choshuve Readers, look at what Not a Harry writes to Chabad : "Should you ever choose to rejoin mainstream orthodox Judaism I will welcome you with open arms."
Just goes to confirm what I said in one of my posts, that he among a couple of other people (Mr.Yaptchick, Mr readers write) posing as מבקשי ה pretending to ask קושיאות, when really all they want to do is to instead is to insult חב"ד. Well it finally came to the open. I am not surprised as some of their Rosh Yeshivos and Rabbonin support this. Nu.
http://zeinshver.wordpress.com/2014/01/27/i-hate-this-word/
Black chasid in your hood looking for your love.
@Sruly.
You're a funny one.
The Lubavitchers in the comments are trying to have a rational argument.
The ones arguing back are the ones writing things such as "Should you ever choose to rejoin mainstream orthodox Judaism" and not responding to the arguments.
http://www.shturem.org/index.php?section=artlesson&id=933
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