Monday, March 22, 2010
a voice in the wilderness
Any sane person who looks at some of the acceptance policies of some of today's schools cannot help but wonder: where do these people get the gall to act like this? Whom do they think they're making proud and what goal are they accomplishing? Of course there should be basic standards, but to dig as far and as deep as some of these schools do is nothing short of ridiculous! The video playing above shows a conversation that took place in the home of Reb Aron Leib Shteinman, zg"z, several years ago. The man with no hat and the white beard - RALS's MaSHBaK - has since passed on at an early age. There are two very important things happening here. One is the total disregard for what they call Daas Teyreh, and the other is that the people leading the way are intellectual midgets, to say the least. The fact that they find his words amusing and basically don't take him seriously shows us what kind of prison many of the Litvishe Gedolim are in. I'm talking about the guys asking the questions, not RALS, cholileh.
Reb Aron Leib seems to be the last remaining voice of sanity in that world, and we need to cherish that voice. We saw this happen in Lakewood, and he - among others - demanded that no other schools open until those children who are without a school - for some of these same insane reasons - are made arrangements for. I doubt many of you have seen him so aggravated over the plight of Jewish Children who are scorned by a bunch of no-goodniks, and that's probably what throws these guys so off guard.The lack of derech eretz Sorotzkin displays when he answers back by saying "it's a choshu've yungerman," is astounding to me, even after having seen the fiasco we showed you that took place at Rav Elyashiv's house, when some guy was talking about tznius rules and accepting yungeleit in kolel וכיוצ"ב. It's as if he's telling RAL "who are you to say that about a "choshuver yungerman...," watch your language! Utilizing the Brisker Rov and using him and his children to prove his point is priceless, צו באלעקן די פינגער. Will this video clip bring much-neede change to the selection process that goes in some schools? Stay tuned...
Here's a Hebrew transcript of the conversation...
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38 comments:
I am no admirer of the avi ezri, but he also fought the selektzia sytem of the Mosdos, I remember that some guy put out a sefer on sotah, and in the foreword he spills all the beans on the menahalie mosdois system and quotes the avi ezri, by the 2nd printing he was forced to censure this part of the foreword
Thnks for the breath of fresh air in chinuch. Yaarich yomim al mamlachtoi.
Hirshel,
It's a problem and I must admit to feeling bad when I see these types of exchanges. One sees it in Chassidishe settings as well. Personally, I'd prefer points like this to be made a tad more neutrally.
If one already goes to seek advice from a Talmid Chacham surely you go in with a bittle (sic) anivus.
R' Aryeh Leib is spot on. It's gayva everywhere but more than that it's for me Chutzpe Yasgeh.
We are in a Dor Chatzuf. The buck stops with us.
You really get "chayus" for your blog from Snags,eh?
Go make your nonsensical "birthdays"
vd"l. He's really mocking Chabad mosdos by elevating RAL.
It's all about superficial appearances nowadays. Anyone interested in depth is automatically ridiculed.
Issac
"One sees it in Chassidishe settings as well"
By Chasidim this would never happen, he would be beaten up by some goons after he leaves the Rebbes room, they still have a Beis Din Shel Mata
The laughing makes me sick. Rav ALS finally shuts them up for a few seconds by mentioning the Brisker Rav. Even the kid in the background comes close to listen in. Now he has something to tell his freinds back in Yeshiva.
Sadly though it's short lived, their back to laughing a few seconds later.
What the heck is so darn funny?? Nebech they wont accept a Yasum!
I thought Obama's health care bill was sad. This is much worse.
Fellow kool-aider, needs help.Let's see if one Stokholmer helps the other one out,brown kappel and all
http://www.crownheights.info/index.php?itemid=25245.
Happy B.
My read on the situation is that they are so shocked to hear it they are either laughing from uncomfortableness (is that a word?) or from disbelief. One thing is clear they weren't coming to ask a Shaila but to get confirmation for their already formed opinion for which they would now quote Daas Teyreh, the laughter comes from "what do we do now?" (they probably had already rejected the kid and were just trying to cover their bases, ain't nothing like being exposed).
If everyone of us on this site (no matter your affiliation) would keep this video in front us so to speak as we go through our lives(Gayveh, Gayveh, Gayveh!) the world would be a better place.
I was looking for the Artscroll Yerushalmi on his desk.
Did you see the latest Artscroll PR piece? Photographing a kid or a starter- nu - that makes sense. But they want us to believe that their product is so good, if only the Vilna Gaon would be alive... he would learn only from Artscroll. Vehr vaist...English Edition?
Bleich is the man!!!!
Yechi
The English Artscroll is excellent, and you knew the yungerlait who work on it, you wouldn't be so dismissive.
This is a perfect example of how the gedolim of any kriez are manipulated and deliberately misrepresented by those who claim to be their closest and most loyal followers. The result is that the misdeeds of these opportunists are often blamed on the gedolim whom they claim to represent. While, if the truth where to be known, these misdeeds fly in the face of everything those very same gedolim stand for and fight for.
To my mind, the present day Chareidy discrimination and close-minded negation of anything remotely deviant from the directives of the gedolim, is reflective of certain attitudes propagated in Lubavitch in the name of "hiskashures" and "bitul to the Rebbe". In reality these are no more than political mechanisms, that allow the self appointed "mouth-pieces" of the gedolim to attain their personal interests and subjugate the masses to their personal agendas. These people are crass enough to portray their גאווה as ענווה and bitul to the gedolim...
We must never be to quick to blame the failings of a particular kriez on their gedolim. We must examine the facts and nine times out of ten (I can think of two yotzie min haklals, עכ"פ לענ"ד ואכ"מ, but generally) we will find that the shites of the gedolim where sound, and the faults lie elsewhere...
Tzig, you want Peyos to make fun of? This ass Sorotzkin should be your prime target. When the bearer is so obviously not fit for them- take him to task.
One can't help but get the feeling that the Hachrazah of "Gaavah, Gaavah, Gaavah" is somehow being aimed at the guy weighed down by the exagerated sidelocks.
Mr. Friendly zz"g-
I have no problem with the Artscroll Yerushalmi or the Choshuva yungeleit that worked on it. I was commenting on the PR piece which I think is silly. Do you really believe that a gadol needs Artscroll to understand a shtikel gemoro?
Sorry, I missed the PR piece. I only read the urgent flyers from Kupas Hair littering the Shul, because we all know that they have the most and greatest gedolim behind them
Just one word: "INCREDIBLE!!!"
The outrageous attempt to try again and again to have the Rosh yeshivah change his mind! The chutzpah of interrupting him in the middle time and again. The orikas ol in the way that guy sits and argues over and over, grins like an ape, and literally behaves like a boor. He can't grasp that he might be wrong, so sure is he of his position, and the RY rightly puts him into place by saying that he and those who sent him lack even minimal yiras shomayim and suffer from sanctimonious ga'avoh, ga'avoh, ga'avoh.
This may be the most damning evidence of how "benei Teyre" try to manipulate the very ones they propagate as da'as Torah for their own use. WOW! My esteem for RAYS has just doubled and redoubled. This video is a must to be shown everywhere, and shown again and again whenever those "tzadikim" scream about "d'as Teyre" "da'as Teyre". I wish NB would see this and comment on it.
Chag kosher vesome'ach!
Keep on posting dirt on Jews and win The LUBAVITCH Ahavas Yisroel prize of the year to be presented on yud aleph nissan.
Lubavitch and Judaism diametric opposites
"Keep on posting dirt on Jews and win The LUBAVITCH Ahavas Yisroel prize of the year to be presented on yud aleph nissan.
Lubavitch and Judaism diametric opposites"
Did you understand what RALS said?From your hate filled and paranoid post it's quite apparent that you don't have the slightest inkling of what transpired.
Sane and insane "diametric opposites" and your hate filled and demented psyche is not limited to one day a year but every day.
snagville: Too true. I'll be the first to admit it.
Tell me, anyone older than me out there (probably most of you); I know this kind of "selektzia" has been around for ages. When did it get this bad, especially for cheder?! It reminds me of the non-Jewish prep-school playgroups.
Oilem Goilem
you look insane to me, you can not understand simple english, to understand a semi intelligent dialog
I am probably older then you, their was never such a thing in cheder or girls school
Tzig, you want Peyos to make fun of? This ass Sorotzkin should be your prime target. When the bearer is so obviously not fit for them- take him to task.
AGREED! LOL
BTW if it's this bad now I'm scared to think of these Taliban in 20 years.
BTW Anonymous who is no fan of the "Avi Ezri" GAAHEH GAAVEH GAAVEH. hE DOESN'T NEED YOUR HASKAMA!
"you look insane to me, you can not understand simple english, to understand a semi intelligent dialog"
We have a moide bimiktzas here.He claims that his so called "dialog" is "semi intelligent".Pray tell us which "semi" of it is "intelligent"
Chabad Revisited:
To my mind, the present day Chareidy discrimination and close-minded negation of anything remotely deviant from the directives of the gedolim, is reflective of certain attitudes propagated in Lubavitch in the name of "hiskashures" and "bitul to the Rebbe".
Wow, what the heck did Chabad do to you! This statement, in the context of the video, floored me. I searched for logic somewhere and failed to find it.
These guys are botel to RAL? Ipche! I can't imagine a Chabad Chosid behaving like this in Yechidus!
That there is Gayva everywhere (me included) is obvious, but you draw such a long bow.
"The whole Chabad Lubavitch movement is a cult," he said. "They encourage you to do more and then a little more and then a little more. If you did a dollar today, they ask that you do a dollar-ten tomorrow. They deify the rabbi and the whole thing is geared toward a united world Jewry. Everything that goes well is the work of God. What goes bad is the work of Satan, so you must do more tzedakah, charity. It's a very secretive organization and at its core it exists as a fundraiser."
Jimmy
what a genius, you are wasting your precious time here, or spent it on masechtes bava kama or brain surgery
oilem GOILEM
the lack of admiration of the Avi Ezri is not from Gaaveh, it is from my small brain that can not see the greatness of this guy, I see it in Reb Yechezkel Abramsky, Reb Shmuel,Reb Nuchem Partzovitz, etc... but his gadlus is too hidden, I assume that the Goilim in you, can explain me why he was the ... Kofetz Beroish.
"it is from my small brain that can not see the greatness of this guy"
To be honest, looking at Lekutei Dibburim, or some Lekutei Sichos, one would not exactly be overwhelmed.
Isaac Balbin:
"These guys are botel to RAL? Ipche! I can't imagine a Chabad Chosid behaving like this in Yechidus!"
Certainly these guys are not botul to RAL, but they certainly claim to be. Thats why they are seeking his "Daas Torah" hechsher. They fortify their own positions, with the claim that they are botul to daas torah.
Certainly no one would displey such chutzpeh to the Rebbe, however there certainly are many who use the excuse of "bitul to the Rebbe" in order to fortify their own positions...
V'ain leharich bedovor hagoireim tzar.
Shloimy:
"looking at Lekutei Dibburim, or some Lekutei Sichos, one would not exactly be overwhelmed"
Either you have never looked in any of those seforim, or u suffer from the double problem of a) having no sheichus to havaneh, hasogeh and havchoneh, and b) being tottaly unaware of your disabilty.
anon: chassidus is first and foremost (actually, solely) machshavah/hashkafa. The fact that one brand of chasidus does not "speak to" someone does not mean that he lacks havana. Unless, of course, your one of those brainwashed "only real chassidus" types.
LS is a weak sefer.
Chabad Revisited:
you wrote:
"To my mind, the present day Chareidy discrimination and close-minded negation of anything remotely deviant from the directives of the gedolim, is reflective of certain attitudes propagated in Lubavitch in the name of "hiskashures" and "bitul to the Rebbe"."
Are you suggesting, that while the Rebbe was alive this episode of saying things in the name of the Rebbe, only to find out after that they were total nonsense, did not exist?
i can think of countless times of people saying things in the name of the rebbe and later was confirmed to be untrue.
How many fights today are there in lubavitch that countinue to go on for the same reason, of people claiming that they heard in yechidus the rebbe saying this and that?
Stop blaming everything on the "gedolim" this problem has come about since day one!
shelo asani chareidi said...
"anon: chassidus is first and foremost (actually, solely) machshavah/hashkafa."
That's quite a bold statement. As someone who is familiar with Chassidus I find it difficult to imagine that u make that statement on the basis of any kind of research. Did u ever read such a work as קונטרוס תורת החסידות or קונטרס ענינה של תורת החסידות?
"The fact that one brand of chasidus does not "speak to" someone does not mean that he lacks havana."
The very words Machshovah / Hashkafah, imply a discipline that one uses your mind to be Masig. The fact that it is a different discipline to that of Halacha or Lomdus, does not mean that it is not an intellectual discipline. You seem to imply that the Hashkofeh of Torah is somehow arbitrary and divorced from the Halachik aspect. The truth is that the Hashkofeh of Torah is just as binding as Halacha and is in fact governed by Halacha. When that hashkofeh is explained b'tuv ta'am ve'daas (as it is -among other places - in chabad chassidus) and someone claims to "not exactly be overwhelmed", he has either not actually given the subject due attention or is lacking in havane.
"Unless, of course, your one of those brainwashed "only real chassidus" types."
Firstly, I dont realy follow the concetion to your earlier statments. Secondly, Torah cannot be split into parts we have one Torah - which by the way is real - given to us by one G-d - who by the way is also real - and hence all Chalokim of Torah are real.
To Anonymous at 3:40pm:
you wrote:
1) "Are you suggesting, that while the Rebbe was alive this episode of saying things in the name of the Rebbe, only to find out after that they were total nonsense, did not exist?"
Where in my words do u see such a suggestion?
2) "Stop blaming everything on the "gedolim" this problem has come about since day one!"
I don't blame the Gedolim, on the contrary. I wrote "We must never be to quick to blame the failings of a particular kriez on their gedolim."
Reb Hirshel:
Maybe you should change the message in the comment box to "please READ before u comment". Thinking is a bit difficult for most people... 'you cant run b4 you can walk'.
Anon 6pm: To be honest, my statement was based on a couple times through the tanya and one or two maamorim.
"The very words Machshovah / Hashkafah, imply a discipline that one uses your mind to be Masig."
Exactly, in other words, if someone is masig (lit. approaches) better by using another derech -- here your comparison to lomdus is very apt -- that does not mean he understands. It simply means his mind understands better using the other derech.
Regarding your comment on the whole Torah: Of course we have a whole Torah, and it is real. Where do you see me say differently?
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