דער שטיקל וועלכע האט ביי אונז געהויבן די אויגענברעמען איז דארט - אויף עמ' 2 צום סוף - ווי דער סאטמאר רב רעדט וועגן דעם דרך הלימוד און פרעגט "וואו זענען זיי ווייטער אזוי פארקרומט געווארען,?" מיינענדיג אז די היינטיגע ליטאים, ובתוכם כנראה זיין זון ר' חיים, זענען אוועק פון דעם אמת'ען דרך, דער דרך וואס די בית הלוי אליין איז נאך געגאנגען דעראין. דאס אז ר' חיים האט מחדש געווען א נייעם דרך דאס ווייסען אלע, אבער איך גלייב אז די בריסקער קינדער היינט וואלטען אייך געזאגט אז ס'איז באמת נישט קיין שינוי פונעם דרך אבותינו, און ס'איז מיוסד אויפ'ן אלטען, אויסגעטראטענעם דרך
זקניך ויאמרו לך
83 comments:
סיבה או סימן ?
Why is a horse a horse? is he a horse because his father was a horse but if his father wouldn't of been a horse i would of say he is a...(whatever) סימן or, is he a horse regardless and he himself is horse (forevere) סיבה
למאי נפק"מ?
צו פערד בלייבט פערד
this chakira is not Brisk, it is legitimate non brisk torah, regarding the simanim of animals
Did Brisker ruv know that Satmar ruv trashed his and his fathers Derech Halimud?
I heard years ago that Satmar ruv said that you don't need Birchas Hatorah if you learn the Brisker derech
It's very possible that the Satmar Rav wasn't referring to Reb Chaim himself or the Brisker Rav, but to people like Anonymous 8:32, who don't know what they're talking about and try to say chakiras, but the result is totally laughable and they make the derech into a joke.
Unfortunately, total amharaztim think they understand the derech, and you end up with garbage like this guy was spewing.
anon said: "this chakira is not Brisk"
I hope not, Chakira, logic, Metaphysics, etc. why should the average yeshivah bucher who needs to know how to learn a blat gemura and a seif in shulcun urech so he can know how to be a yid, be concerened with this kind of learning except if he wants to compete with einstein?
anon said "Unfortunately, total amharaztim think they understand the derech, and you end up with garbage like this guy was spewing."
look who is calling the kettle black.
That joke with the Rambam is so old! Doesn't any one in Satmar have new material?
BTW, I once heard that the Satmar Rebbe (Rav Aron) once gave a shiur, and mentioned a chiddush in the course of the shiur. A talmid asked him about it, and he said, "I'll tell you the truth, it was not my chiddush, but was taken from Rav Chaim's sefer. But, obviously I couldn't mentioned it in his name."
Anonymous said...
"Did Brisker ruv know that Satmar ruv trashed his and his fathers Derech Halimud?"
saying the truth isn't trashing.
את והב בסופה
Anonymous said...
"I heard years ago that Satmar ruv said that you don't need Birchas Hatorah if you learn the Brisker derech"
he must of say it if you learn kooks toras, c"v on briker ruv z"l
super said: "the result is totally laughable and they make the derech into a joke. "
it was sidesteped by the רידב"ז, אבי עזרי, ח"ח, חזון איש ועוד ועוד.. so dont be so shocked that S"R wasn't impressed by it either
"I hope not, Chakira, logic, Metaphysics, etc. why should the average yeshivah bucher who needs to know how to learn a blat gemura and a seif in shulcun urech so he can know how to be a yid, be concerened with this kind of learning except if he wants to compete with einstein?"
You talk like a guy that is proud of his heritage of 10 generation Amharatzim
"רידב"ז, אבי עזרי, ח"ח, חזון איש ועוד ועוד.."
the avi ezri was a talmud muvhak of the Brisker Ruv
anon 1:37 said: the avi ezri was a talmud muvhak of the Brisker Ruv
oops, I meant the "Seridei Eish"
anon said: "You talk like a guy that is proud of his heritage of 10generation Amharatzim"
קיש מיר אין תחת
for some reason the small percentage of satmar bochurim that have a desire to learn all clamor to come to bris. go figure.
anon said: 1:36 "
You talk like a guy that is proud of his heritage of 10 generation Amharatzim"
I happen to know many brisker (and BMG) talmidum who dont know how to make a מוצא איבער א רתח and think they are full blownn lamdunim, so I'll say תול קורה מבין עיניך
I am no brisker and no BMG alumni, but just remember that may chakiras were already said by the Peri Megodim,Chasam Sofer,Reb Yossef Engel..
ACK 1:02 said... “But, obviously I couldn't mentioned it in his name."
True or false, I know a yid who received מעות קדימה to print one of the C”C z”l seforim on loshon horah, than he wanted to print an haskama in the C”C sefer from SR but SR rejected the clever idea! By saying he wasn’t from the chasidim! Therefore no haskama! Obviously these two shitas never mixed still doesn’t, todays problem with the non chasidishe yeshivous like BMG MIR .. isn’t their derech or non derech halimid but that their yeshivous are imbeded by buchirim from X chasidishe families who went off…
Anonymous 1:57said...
"for some reason the small percentage of satmar bochurim that have a desire to learn all clamor to come to bris. go figure."
You should be glad tzig don't do any fact checks so keep on lieing.. however the litvishe found a way to learn with buchirim who desire to learn and stay קלים chasidishe yeshvous still dont tolerate that... YES It's a Fact.
You should be glad tzig don't do any fact checks
You think I have time to check every "fact?" That's where YOU come in!!!
Anon
"קיש מיר אין תחת
I see Am Aratzus trickles down to Nivul Peh,
Anon
"You should be glad tzig don't do any fact checks so keep on lieing.. however the litvishe found a way to learn with buchirim who desire to learn and stay קלים chasidishe yeshvous still dont tolerate that... YES It's a Fact."
It seems that u were not in KJ or Queens for a long time...
Try to peak into Blumenfelds charts.. or in the yeshivah gevoah on top of the Matzilie Eish in Monroe...
give me abreak..
Anon
"I know a yid who received מעות קדימה to print one of the C”C z”l seforim on loshon horah, than he wanted to print an haskama in the C”C sefer from SR but SR rejected the clever idea! By saying he wasn’t from the chasidim"
I remember in my youth a choshever Yid in Willi by the name Kaufman, who was very busy to promote Chofetz Chaim,
Was he the person that asked for the Haskoma?
I think when he started the campaign it was after the SR stroke?
Maybe I am Mistaking?
Anonymous2:17 said... “I am no brisker and no BMG alumni, but just remember that may chakiras were already said by the Peri Megodim,Chasam Sofer,Reb Yossef Engel..”
You can add the מנחת חינוך ועוד.. however they mention it but the emphasis wasn’t on this obscure derech even the בית הלוי didn’t emphasis this way of learning
Anonymous 2:28 said...” I see Am Aratzus trickles down to Nivul Peh”
I haven’t seen your lomdis yet… The gemorah says דע מה שתשיב... but it doesn’t said what ? the world says because sometimes you have to tell them "קיש מיר אין תחת
so i excersize my right.
"I happen to know many brisker (and BMG) talmidum who dont know how to make a מוצא איבער א רתח and think they are full blownn lamdunim, so I'll say תול קורה מבין עיניך
It's amazing that an attack against ignorance betrays such boorishness. Not Yiddish and not Hebrew. (ak, Loshon Kodesh). רתח intead of רעטאח and then תול instead of טול
Anonymous 2:31 said...” It seems that u were not in KJ or Queens for a long time...”
I suspect neither where you.., in the history of klal yisruel there weren’t such a phenomena as KY in monroe NY where 1000’s of chasidshe families enroll their complete families in their yeshivous not just ‘so called’ selected buchirim from each family and the rest of the family is למתגלגל באשפה somewhere.. , of course there is consequences on such a derech after all the gemorah says אלף נכנסים לבית הספר ואחד יוצא להוראה but all of them even the ones who reside on “the yeshivah gevoah on top of the Matzilie Eish” will enroll ‘their’ children in a yeshivah and ‘their’ children will be the top students of BMG or MIR, get it! As הנסיון מעיד
anon 2:48 "רתח intead of רעטאח "
ow wow such a lomdis..
anon 2:48 and then תול instead of טול
sorry my editor is out for lunch, and my spell checker is down
Anonymous 2:37 said...” I think when he started the campaign it was after the SR stroke? Maybe I am Mistaking?”
Yes you are, BTW 'חוצפה כלפי שמיא מהני' but not against צדיקי אמת
Anonymous 2:31 said...” It seems that u were not in KJ or Queens for a long time...”
I suspect neither where you.., in the history of klal yisruel there weren’t such a phenomena as KY in monroe NY where 1000’s of chasidshe families enroll their complete families in their yeshivous not just ‘so called’ selected buchirim from each family and the rest of the family is למתגלגל באשפה somewhere.. , of course there is consequences on such a derech after all the gemorah says אלף נכנסים לבית הספר ואחד יוצא להוראה but all of them even the ones who reside on “the yeshivah gevoah on top of the Matzilie Eish” will enroll ‘their’ children in a yeshivah and possibly ‘their’ children will be the top students of BMG or MIR, get it! As הנסיון מעיד
Rav Shach shrayed for many years that the yeshivos that learn so slow are creating amaratzim, bifrat if there's no blat shiur.
anon 2:48 " רתח intead of רעטאח "
that's real litvish lomdes
קיש מיר אין תחת
The first yiddish words learned by almost every lubab bt..
Anonymous 1:37 said...
”the avi ezri was a talmud muvhak of the Brisker Ruv”
Indeed, And he cried continually that buchirim should learn many pages of gemurah!!! Not be stuck on two lines forever
anon 3:23 "Rav Shach shrayed for many years that the yeshivos that learn so slow are creating amaratzim, bifrat if there's no blat shiur."
wasn't he also a brisker talmid?
Dont confuse Rav Shachs view with Satmar Ruvs
Rav shach was pro Brisk method of Derech Halimus, he just claimed they learn too little
By the SR, this all method is anti torah
Anon
"will enroll ‘their’ children in a yeshivah and possibly ‘their’ children will be the top students of BMG or MIR, get it! As הנסיון מעיד"
is the OTD Situation in Lakewood worse then in KJ?
I dont think so.
this other kids end up in a different yeshivah that is geared for them
brisk does not learn slow at all. nor is brisk equal to r' abba berman-r' moshe volpin stule lomdus. some commentors here don't seem to know much about derech halimud or lomdus at all. sorry. i'm not going to teach you aleph bais now.
Honestly I do not know anything about brisker,mirere,r' abba berman-r', moshe volpin stule, shitas in limud i didnt even know that they exist and i dont think i missed anything, all i know is that you're a מתכבד בקלון חבירו by calling generations of the most erliche kehila ever! which had the זכוי' that SR z"l was its founder and builder, 'generations of total amharaztim' therefore by implication declaring yourself a talmid cuchem! Or because you know how to spell horseradish in yidish!, (what a horse shit) and by talking on a צדיק עתק בּגאוה ובוזall that to imply again with עזות אין גאות that only a litvak can כאילו you're a ת"ח what a חוצפּה
In all honesty it is my opinion that the derech halimid and their ‘derech ha’eretz’ שם לבוש לשון ומחשבה , of today started by the litvakas and transplanted to others, is goyish and נתיון גיווארן בחומר וצורה which in the end will lead to total שכחת התורה by the masses, and only those who will steadfastly stand by the old ways במסירות נפש from the outside world and more so from “the insiders” והמב"י will have a chance.
It's רעטעך!
There are fewer better cases of the pot calling the kettle black.
R' Yoilish published Vayoel Moishe which purports to rule on what was probably the greatest issue of the day. Whether he was being disingenuous or downright dishonest will depend on your opinon of him but that it is farkrimt there can be no doubt.
Reb Chaim on the other hand provided a new analytical method which is logical and aims at the point. He didn't use a chalos and definitely not midroshim and chasidishe sforim to pasken shalos on complex and unrelated issues. Reb Chaim is fresh because it is devoid of pilpulim that the satmare are so fond of and for the most farkrimt it is difficult to beat a satmarer trying to be a lamden.
For an analysis for Reb Chaim and his methodology see Rav Zevin in Ishim Veshitos, probably the last decent frum biography to have been published.
Anon AKA yoshe kalb 4:09 said: "It's רעטעך!"
ליקוטי מאמרים ר' צדוק מלובלין עמוד קי"ט תודה"ק:
...וגלות יון בקלקול החכמה..וכן ההתחלה בהעתקת התורה יונית .. פי' שעי"ז התחילו להתערב
חכמת יונית בחכמת התורה ונעדר אור התורה האמיתי...
...כי טמאו כל השמנים היינו בני יון ע"י חכמות יונית שהיא נגד תושבע"פּ זלעו"ז...
...וטמאו כל השמנים הם כל החכמות אמיתות של חכמי ישראל נטבעו ונתערבו בחכמות חיצוניות..
...כענין פכים קטנים דיעקב שידוע שהם נפשות מישראל היותר גרועים...
...והחכמה הנמצאת בעמי הארץ שאין להם שכל להתחכם בחכמות בני נכר היא שנשארת טהורה וטמונה בחותמו של כה"ג כידוע בענין כל הגדול מחבירו...
...כך מפלתו ביד עמי הארץ יותר מבידי ת"ח כי הקול קול יעקב אינו ניצוח רק שאז אין ידי עשו
שולטות כלל, אבל כששולטים אז הניצוח הוא רק ע"י הידים היינו מצות מעשיות שעיקרו רק
בעמי הארץ...
עיין בענין זה באריכות קונט' דברות קודש מהר"י ט"ב ז"ל פּ' דברים תשכ"ז שנעתק אות באות מפי טעיפ, ויאירו לך .
------------
ואני הק' אומר eat your רעטעך.
Ende Tsadik said... IDK what!
But I would keep it simple צ and a ץ and a פּץ
The SR attempted an almost iompossible task: Turning a motley crew of Hungarian amharatzim, almost none of whom had any yeshiva education or higher jewish knowledge (such as who Reb Chaim was),into a frum kehillah. he chose to do this by rallying them around the anti-zionism agenda that he beleived in (since getting them to rally around torah would have been impossible). most other charedi leaders were also very anti-zionism, yet this was not the main focal point of their yiddishkeit.
amazingly, completely due to his tzidkus and personallity, he suceeded. it also helped that he was a talmid chochom himself and was thus accepted by charedi jewry as a gadol. eventually, he basically swallowed up the hungarian sects like puppa, tzelem and vienn. another aspect of satmar is to stress cultural things like dress, and language as the basis of yiddishlkeit, claiming that they are the authentic jews because of their dress. this is of course patently ridiculous as their entire concept of "amol" is 250 years ago. incredibly, satmarersw actually beleive such statements as "Moshe Rabenu wore a shtreimel" and "the besh't was bigger than the avos" and of course they beleive that anyone who looks a litle different than them is "modern"
today, since satmar is not a torah based movement, they are dependant upon the litvishe yeshivos to educate their "learning boys" and provide them with rabbanim and rosheshivos.
Everyone railing about Brisker yeshivos learning too slow... again are uninformed batlanim. The Brisker yeshivas learn fast by yeshivish standards.
The amount of ignorance on display in these comments is nothing short of astounding.
Anon
"all i know is that you're a מתכבד בקלון חבירו by calling generations of the most erliche kehila ever! which had the זכוי' that SR z"non"
All my negativity I learned from the SR, calling and printing it,that all of klal yisroel(that dont live in 11211) and all kedoshie elyon ovdie avoda zora...
Ende Tsadik 8:02 said... “R' Yoilish published Vayoel Moishe.. but that it is farkrimt there can be no doubt.” עפ"ל
תושבע"פ is learned with the י"ג מדות שהתורה נדרשת בהן and ע"פּ כללי הש"ס all מדרשי חז"ל are a part of תושבע"פ also are מדרשי חז"ל ספרי הראשונים והאר"י ז"ל ואחריהם התלמידי הבעש"ט an integral part of תושבע"פ all of them are מרועה אחד נאמרו
I do not doubt for one second that reb chaim’s toras is toras emes! But because he relied on ‘his’ logic and ‘his’ analytical methods mainly devoid of pilpulim, does not mean that your or your likes can do the same.. and still call it reb chaims derech!, reb chaims z”l would never contradict c”v any מדרשי חז"ל (without a פארענפערונג) even when there is a possibility c”v to do it, neither would S”R z”l , but to say as you did that S”R is using “midroshim and chasidishe sforim (only, without halkachic refrence) to pasken shalos on complex and unrelated issues” is an outright LIE!!! and and you foresighted your חזקה דמלתי דעבודי לגלויי לא משקרי אנשי
anon 9:55 ""Moshe Rabenu wore a shtreimel" and "the besh't was bigger than the avos"
and all jews have horns! and that you מדחציף כולי האי ש"מ..
Anonymous 9:55 said... “The SR attempted an almost iompossible task”
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.
Anon 9:55, finally someone hit it on the head without sarcasm and below the belt soundbites.
Anonymous 9:55 said “, since satmar is not a torah based movement , they are dependant upon the litvishe yeshivos to educate their "learning boys" “
תשכ"ח-1968 the year S”R z”l stoped giving shirum in his yeshivah “תשכ"ח עניינו ולחצנו” satmar had 600 yeshivah buchirim strong! Who learned שיעור פשוט, ש"ע אוה"ח, וסוגיות הש"ס, ספרי מוסר וחסידות from 6am till 10 pm daily! and thosands of cheder kinder, BMG had around 100 talmidim (mostly, from questianable backgrounds), even when the litvish community was larger and many years around before the hungarians came here! why the surge afterwards? (mostly from x chasidishe families!) And even more so after SR הסתלקות why ? is it because they figured out that they can have תורה ומדע instead of תורה ויראה ?? now that דאזל גברא דמסתפינא מיניה or is it that they can go to a place you can thread water all day בסברות כרסיות and being considered a lamden to! 'now instead of being bashed you can bash others'
ps: last I heared satmar school system(s) still has 40k+ “learning” talmidim worldwide so יעקב אבינו לא מת yet! Not all are נתיון גיווארן .
Mister Midechotzef
"and all jews have horns! and that "you מדחציף כולי האי ש"מ
it is a famous vort from Sanzer ruv, it has noting to do with satmar ruv,
Don't get so excited.
He said it on Vayietzie Yakov that Yakov went on the street, with which levush?, Avidie a shtriemel and bekiche, because can u imagine Yakov Ovinu went on the street without a shtriemel..
Anon
"1968 the year S”R z”l stoped giving shirum in his yeshivah “תשכ"ח עניינו ולחצנו” s"
to get the facts straight the SR never gave shiurim in the USA, he only said a chidush on the Sigyas twice a year, that Hirshele Miezels wrote down, it is not learned in no place it collects dust on all bookshelves.
anon 12:15 "to get the facts straight the SR never gave shiurim in the USA, he only said a chidush on the Sigyas twice a year"
yingele, he gave shirum in his yeshivah besigyas hasahas, many are printed for about 20 years "twice a week" here in williamsburg USA!
Anon
"(mostly, from questianable backgrounds"
being that u can built such a nice generation, from "questionable"
Makes Reb Aron Kotler the real yiddishkiet builder vs, a person that just grabbed all the hiemishe yiden for himself,he had a very little crowd before the yidden came from the DP camps (which his former nephew worked there with mesiras nefesh)and from the 65 revolution,
All his people were frum before they heard of satmar, and would be frum even without his contact.
So what is the yomtov of Chof Alef Kislev the yom hatzolah of the Moshian Shel Yisroel
I admit that wthout Chof Alef Kislev we wouldnt have this massive shtrimel bekiche industry, plus every Tzadik is mashpia for the doir, as were many tzadikim after the war.
BTW, according to historians the whole Marmarosh Siget region was "questionable" till reb Mendele Visnitzer and his family rebuilt ed that region.
Printed where?
anon 1215 "it is not learned in no place it collects dust on all bookshelves."
yeah must be thats whats meant by
אברהם אמר אנכי אפר עפר
anon
"yeah must be thats whats meant by
אברהם אמר אנכי אפר עפר
your thoughts are too deep, we need some brisker to decipher it
Anon
"but to say as you did that S”R is using “midroshim and chasidishe sforim (only, without halkachic refrence) to pasken shalos on complex and unrelated issues” is an outright LIE!!!"
what is the Issur of taking money from the Isreali government?
not a Bnie Yisoscher?
What is the Issur of having a medina Al Pi torah?
Not some Midrah in shir Hashirim, with no mention what so ever in no possek?
Why are yo saying g "Lie"
anon 12:44 "Makes Reb Aron Kotler the real yiddishkiet builder "
Unquestionable and true.
anon 1:16 "What is the Issur of having a medina Al Pi torah?
Not some Midrah in shir Hashirim, with no mention what so ever in no possek? "
שגגת תלמוד עולה זדון
Anonymous 1:59 said...
"What is the Issur of having a medina Al Pi torah?"
The same as a שרץ שטהר בק"ן טעמים
Remembering Kahane, and the Woman on the Bridge
http://www.nytimes.com/1994/03/06/weekinreview/remembering-kahane-and-the-woman-on-the-bridge.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm
As I was leaving my first meeting with him, he handed me some League brochures with an advertisement asking for contributions to "the Estelle Donna Evans Foundation," described as a fund to help needy people in Israel. I returned to ask about it. Yes, said the rabbi, she was a gentile who had worked as his secretary in the consulting venture. She had died tragically and her well-to-do family, he said, endowed the foundation. He was very convincing, but as I checked the story, the facts turned out to be quite different.
SHE was not rich. Her real name was Gloria Jean D'Argenio. She adopted Estelle Donna Evans when she looked for modeling jobs. By 1966 she was involved in a romance with Rabbi Kahane. She was 22 years old. Her roommate told me that Estelle had told her the rabbi had promised marriage. Then, the roommate said, he sent a letter breaking everything off, admitting he was married with children and saying he could not leave them. On July 30, Estelle Donna Evans jumped from the bridge. Pulled from the water, she died in Bellevue the next day. The letter was in her pocketbook.
I confronted the rabbi with what I had learned. He put his hand on my knee and said, "I loved her." He acknowledged everything and told me he had placed roses on her grave for months. He then began pleading with me not to publish the full account of this story. His self-assuredness vanished and he started to stutter.
Reb Chayim said he determined R Akiva Eger ZL used 7 drochim.(The Chsam Sofer told his sons to learn with his derech not their grandfathers-see Chut HaMeshulosh). From these 7 he chose one. (Anyone who's learnt Nedorim with the Ran knows RC didn't manufacture the derech). The SR's objection was that the derech flies in the face of being Masik shmaytse alibe dhilcheso. R Yisrol Salanter said that R YosheBers son has a derech that will be necessary for the kumedige doyros VD"L. The Toyra of the BR RebVelvl Z"l is once again only part of RCs approach and is rock solid and can bring to hachroeh in hoyro'o. The other 'part' of RC approach is found in bircas shmuel from R Boruch Ber ZtzvVk"L.(BTW This is official brisker dogma ). R Hershele Spinker Zl(an admirer of R Velvls mehalach) told me that the SR told him he asked the Chazon Ish about the 'Litvishe Pshetlech' and the CI replied its not the genuine Litvishe derech as is Mekubel from the Goen Zl but another thing altogether.
Anon
"R Hershele Spinker Zl(an admirer of R Velvls mehalach) "
the whole blog of the tzig was wothed just to see this statement...
Did u see it in his Shovavim torahs?
The Chazon Ish was against the Brisk derech halimud, as u can see in his harsh criticisim on Reb Chaim on Rambam.
We dont need the Satmarer rumors in the name of the chazon Ish,
All the ignorant heimishe haters of SR who are outed when using the term"R Yoilish" (now you REALLY put him down...) and ridicule the Sefer have never learnt VYM. His rayos are solid. From gmoro rishonim etc. Of cource a lamdan might dingzach here and there but if your mind is not clouded by hate its obviously a brilliant sefer. If you're not a Bar Uryon don't bother. Like he himself said "mahn sayfer hob ich nisht geshribn mit pintelech" when bemoaning the fact that every peasant that hails from the great paprika fields of central europe weights in on it not understanding one word.
Yudl gershuni (grodner) R Leyzer Silvers SIL( a known iluy in the prewar yeshivishe velt who then went to R Kook in then palestine) and a zionist to his core told us the atze chaim mitn brudarke dem rebn hobn gut gikent lernen.
און נאך אלעם ווען דער סאטמר רב האט אמאל צוגעטראפן מדעתי׳ צו א גוט שטיקל ר׳ חיים האט ער דאס גענוצט צו ווייזן אז מיר קאנען אויך....
אבער לגופו של ענין, האט שוין איינער אמאל דעפינירט די פונקטליכע גדר וואס אויב שפרייזט מען דאס אריבער איז מען בין תלמידי הגר״ח און אויב נישט דאן מתלמידי ר׳ יואל׳יש
כ׳מיין וואס איז די נפק״מ איז אז אין בריסק ליבט מען פשט און אנאליטיק. בעוד אין סטמר עכ״פ די וואס לערנען גלייכן צו שפרינגן אויף דרוש וואס איז אנאלאגיע און געדרייט....
אבער איז דען אין פשט אליינס דען נישט זיכער אז ר׳ חיים האט געשלאגן ווינדערליכ׳ס אין עמקות....כ׳מיין וואס איז דען די פלוגתא
anon 12:44...this lie was invented by belz in 1981 during their reign od terror (re nephew)
דעפינירט די פונקטליכע גדר וואס אויב שפרייזט מען דאס אריבער איז מען בין תלמידי הגר״ח און אויב נישט דאן מתלמידי ר׳ יואל׳יש"
the Brisker revere Toyras emes alpi pshat. R Chayim said his Amkus only when he held it to be Muchrach with no other hesber not because he was looking to Philozofir. Generally he'd stick to griblenzach in di pshatovneh fun a rashi for hours. This jumps out at you in the SR's sifrey lomdus. R Gifter ZL in is hesped on the SR was molle hispayless that when the SR said his Shiur in Telz Cleveland the Rebbe said "Toysfos Plugtzach". He was so taken by the SR approach to ameilus BaToyro boymek hapshat. (For the "R Yoilish" haters:you can get the tape from uvlechtcho vaderech)
Drush is another story. The Sigeter geza did adopt the hugarian derech (Mit dey Hakdume kemen shoyn farshtayn pshat in pahyit...)
That's where they differed.
Rehov Slonim
"non 12:44...this lie was invented by belz in 1981 during their reign od terror (re nephew)"
can you specify the Lie, please????
Anon
"All the ignorant heimishe haters of SR who are outed when using the term"R Yoilish" (now you REALLY put him down...) and ridicule the Sefer have never learnt VYM."
By outing people that hate Satmar Ruv by calling him Reb Yoelish, you don't answer the argument,Like I will out everyone that calls the Peshevorsker Rebbes Reb Yankele and Reb Itzikel, it was always the Satmarer argument he is a "enemy of the Rebbe",for the record you should know,the Hate machine is in the Satmarer ball yard, its their official dogma to hate every Jew that do not listen to the New religion of the Veyoel Moshe. Whoever is not a hater as Menashe Fulop is Tzorich Bedika Achroiv.
No other faction of Orthodox has a curriculum of hate for their institutions,
All Jews that are ready to get blemished as Miskomim Beyeminecho,for learning a simple Blatt Gemora, have some right to respond to this idiocy hurled at them even by a Godel Miyisroel. who did not care that all gedolim had a different view.
Stop with your nonsense that all his detractors never learned his sefer, they all learned it, and saw a Godel Meyisroel making a pitiful pilpul in ayin yakov and concluding that everyone who does not agree is a apikoras at best maybe Achov.
Btw, if you are so sensitive for the Satmar Ruvs Kevoid Hatorah, then you should likewise add to Rav Gershuni name a "Reb" etc...
His seforin are more learned in Yeshivahs then the holy seforim of the Sakmer Ruv, especialy his beautiful Shitah Mekibetzes o Pesachim,is a master piece.
You guys are clowns. Comparing the lomdus of the SR to Rav Chaim is comical. You simply haven’t learnt through any pieces of Rav Chaim. What Rav Gifter said about the SR by the hesped is one thing, but the reality is otherwise. Those who were by the shiur will tell you that they were not impressed, and this can be discerned by the fact that by any standard none of the SR’s Torah can be classified as lomdos. He simply didn’t begin to understand it.
"rehov slonim 11 said...
anon 12:44...this lie was invented by belz in 1981 during their reign od terror (re nephew)"
What exactly was invented by Belz. That the SR’s nephew was the one that saved Hungarian yiddiskiet and not the SR? Then again there is no use arguing with you guys even regarding facts.
Anon November 23, 2011 12:12:00 PM said: “its their official dogma to hate every Jew that do not listen to the New religion of the Veyoel Moshe. - No other faction of Orthodox has a curriculum of hate for their institutions”
רמב"ם הלכות עדות פי"א הי"א... האפיקורוסין והמינים... פחותין הן מן הגויים שהגויים לא מעלין ולא מורידין ויש לחסידיהן חלק לעולם הבא ואלו מורידין ולא מעלין ואין להן חלק לעולם הבא
דער חזון איש אין יו"ד סי' י"ג שרייבט אז די היינטיגע רשעים זענען אנדערש, אז היינט זענען זיי נישט קיין להכעיס'ניקעס.
אבל הבעלזא משכילים שבימינו צ"ע אם דינם כלהכעיס'ניקעס
anon 1:46: "You guys are clowns. Comparing the lomdus of the SR to Rav Chaim is comical"
define lomdus please?
anon 1:46 "What Rav Gifter said about the SR by the hesped is one thing, but the reality is otherwise"
סנהדרין · צג ב
יודע נגן שיודע לישאל גבור שיודע להשיב איש מלחמה שיודע לישא וליתן במלחמתה של תורה (איש תואר שמראה פנים בהלכה ונבון דבר שמבין דבר מתוך דבר) וה' עמו שהלכה כמותו בכל מקום בכולהו אמר להו יהונתן בני כמוהו כיון דאמר ליה [וה' עמו] מילתא דבדידיה נמי לא הוה ביה חלש דעתיה
!וה' עמו שהלכה כמותו בכל מקום
anon 12:12 "No other faction of Orthodox has a curriculum of hate for their institutions'
Would you be so kind and add - or a curriculum of גמ"ח בגוף ובממון -
anon 11:02 "דעפינירט די פונקטליכע גדר וואס אויב שפרייזט מען דאס אריבער איז מען בין תלמידי הגר״ח "
reb chaim's two greatest talmidim ר' איסר זלמן מלצר ור' שמעון שקאף both שפרייזט from reb chaim's דרך הלימוד
Anonymous November 23, 2011 12:12:00 PM said... “All Jews that are ready to get blemished as Miskomim Beyeminecho,for learning a simple Blatt Gemora, have some right to respond to this idiocy” …
ווען די הינט בּילט איז א סימן די שטיין האבּן גיטראפן
… “Stop with your nonsense that all his detractors never learned his sefer, they all learned it, and saw a Godel Meyisroel making a pitiful pilpul in ayin yakov”
למיימינם בה סמא דחיי ולמשמאילים בה סמא דמותא.
anon שגץ said: ---
את מי חרפת וגידפת ועל מי הרימות קול ותישא מרום עיניך על קדוש ישראל
אברהם, איש החסד
יצחק, מדת הגבורה
יעקב, אמת
משה, דעת
אהרן, אוהב שלום
יוסף, הצדיק
דוד, גבור חיל אינו הורג אלא מדעת בי"ד
פנחס, מקנא קנאות ד"צ
ירמי', המוכיח
כולהו איתנהו ביה !וה' עמו שהלכה כמותו בכל מקום
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