Here's what one reader had to say on VosIzNeias' post about the Kinus HaShluchim Banquet Last Night
"I have to admit, having watched video segments from both the Chabad and Agudah meetings, it was like watching a chassanah versus a levayah and I'll let you guess which was which. One was upbeat, positive and rejoicing in what Hashem has done for Yiddeshkeit and will continue doing, and the other was a nonstop cry of "Gevalt, Yidden!" and how we've all gone off the derech and need to do major league tshuvah. Maybe next year, the Agudah will simply cancel their convention and attend as guests of Chabad (I'm sure the shalichim will enjoy the opportunity of doing some really heavy duty outreach..." )
I chose to leave the comment as is to let you see the mood out there.
114 comments:
I am far from a Lubavitch fan and haven't followed the Kinus but I was sent a link of Schorr's and Sheרrer's speeches.
What pathetic individuals and how true this comment is.
ראו מה בין...
Just to put it in perspective; while its true that Chabad had waaaay more energy and spirit, Agudah didnt put up an English Rabbi who is often viewed as closer to Conservative than Reform.
I have to admit not being the biggest Chasid of the Chief Rabbi, but his speech about the Rebbe and Chabad was amazing.
Mordechai Tzion
http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16468/jewish/Chapter-7.htm
Kohelet 7:2
and what about comment #24 below the one you pick...
Even Einstein said it is all relative.
"Agudah didnt put up an English Rabbi who is often viewed as closer to Conservative than Reform."
you giving too of a good name to the reform rabbis?
if they are all like Rabbi Sacks then we are in good shape
tzig: "I chose to leave the comment as is to let you see the mood out there. "
On the tatanic you had both singing dancing, and drowning!!! why not have both conventions togheter!
Theshteeble
"Just to put it in perspective; while its true that Chabad had waaaay more energy and spirit, Agudah didnt put up an English Rabbi who is often viewed as closer to Conservative than Reform."
To put it in real perspective, Chabad was not in this Jew Label Divisiveness, but all aside, I think that Reb Reb Aron (the Rebbe of great Ohev Yisroel of Philly, who terrorized the Aguda not to invite certain YU rabbis to the Siyum Hashas), invited the Rosh of YU and the one who gave the heter for the tomene Roundtable, to be the Guest speaker for a Chinuch Atzmoi dinner.
Sheil Ovicho Veyagadcho.
"On the tatanic you had both singing dancing, and drowning!!! why not have both conventions togheter!"
very profound thinking..
come on!
you are comparing apples to baseball bats. the aguda convention focus is more on the state of the community, while shluchim convention is geared wholly to outreach.
This is from the same comments section on VIN:" What a bunch of lubavitch propaganda.How can you bee so blind< go to Crown Heights and see a living churban habayis . I just paid a visit on Sukkos for the first time since the Rebbes zt"l ptira.What a bunch of lost souls,No focus, no direction , no hanhaga and lost was the (real) simcha i wittnessed years ago. Little kids waving Moshiach flags wa sthe highlight. While i give kudos to the chabad shlichim around the world (the hachnosa orchim & food was unserpassed) and the work they do.But it boils down to 8 people in Honk Kong 2 people in austraila etc. which pales in comparison to the problems that agudas yisroel (which i believe is nothing more then a pulpit organization as far as chizukjk hadas is concerned)is addressing. which is over 50,000 children trying to be raised al pi chinuch hatohor! If you want to see simchas hatora,dont compare chabad to Aguda convention,Go to hakofos in Pupa ,satmer bobov etc Or yeshivas Lakewood Chaim Berlin etc.
The Poroa aduma was also metaher temaim but was also metame tehorim. One canot brag about "kindeling the light of yiddisheit" by extinguishing or downplaying the flame which currently exists by rov rubum shel klal yisroel.."
A different take on things,no?
"you are comparing apples to baseball bats. the aguda convention focus is more on the state of the community, "
The Aguda was always a Klal Yisroel party,
they lately started catering to the subject of Even Ezer, since its Geshmaker and also Masbia Rouv...
"The Poroa aduma was also metaher temaim but was also metame tehorim. One canot brag about "kindeling the light of yiddisheit" by extinguishing or downplaying the flame which currently exists by rov rubum shel klal yisroel.."
A different take on things,no?"
No!It's the same perverse and usual garbage regurgitated.Fully worthy of dissemination by the renowned purveyor of "religious" porn, Scotty "hatzadik".
Anon
"What a bunch of lubavitch propaganda.How can you bee so blind< go to Crown Heights and see a living churban habayis"
what is the Propoganda exactly?
that Chabad has a couple of thousands of shluchim?
Is it a lie?
What means Propoganda?
Truth? Lie?
What does it have to do with CH?
In Chabad they also did simchas torah with a major Shturem of simcha,eventough they have a lot of rif raf on the street, what does this have to do with a yungerman that built a lighttower Lashem Iltorosai in Hamburg?
Like you telling for a father that makes a big wedding for 1 kid while he has a other sick child in the hospital with cancer, and you go in the hall screaming stop the music!!!! this Mechuten is a idiot.. he is dancing while his son his suffering in the hospital..
cancel them both. two collosal wastes of time.
The Kinus Shluchim was like the Rebbe's NBG"E Levaya. People singing and Dancing when they should've been crying.
"One was upbeat, positive and rejoicing in what Hashem has done for Yiddeshkeit and will continue doing, and the other was a nonstop cry of "Gevalt, Yidden!" and how we've all gone off the derech and need to do major league tshuvah."
The reason why I love this commenter is cus he actually summarizes in one sentence the difference between Chabad and the rest of "them"... what makes Chabad more special then the rest is: The rest of them only care about doing "major league tshuvah", and worrying about not going off the derech etc. we can assume that learning torah, davening, mussar, avodas hashem, are in the list of negative thing that the rest of them care about.
However Chabad is special. They couldnt care less about that stuff. They care about being "upbeat". The motto should be: "Why work on myself if I can work on others" (and have little success)"
Yeh, we get the drift...he prefers the bottle over the book.
Sadly...Typical.
Dus hut R'Leizer gmeint.
it's like Meir Simcha Chein (?) of Nevel said to his friends as they returned from a friend's levayah:
וואס זייט איהר אזוי אומעטיג? זייט איהר געקומען פון א מתנגד'ישע חתונה? איהר קומט דאך פון א חסיד'ישע לויה
!!!!
The Agudah convention was sad for two reasons. Their world needs at least one outstanding rabbinicaL personality that commands respect in all circles. Since here in America there are none, they start the day out on the defensive. Going on how the Agudah today is the same as in Reb Chaim Ozer's time doesn't help. Second this anti internet-anti new technology campaign is a battle they can't win. It's painful to watch them make such a strategic mistake. It will create a society of mosrim, children outing parents, one bochur snitching on another...yuk.
Berl of CH: This vertl is complete nonsense. It's purpose is only to denigrate Misnagdim with the old stereotype that Chassidim are freilech and Misnagdim are morose. I got news for you-Did the Rebbe ever come back from a levayah[l"o]in anything less than the most serious and somber shtimung?It's a cute vertl that has nothing in common with reality.Let's leave it at that.
E.M., על זה נאמר:
... זיי מסביר א סריס טעם ביאה
Berl, If you're so smart please explain to me how Lubavitch raised a generation of bulvannes that understands no Yiddish and certainly not your vertlech?I speak to guys from NY in the local olei toreh and nobody knows Yiddish.If Lubavitch still had the old "chein" fun amol-I'd be quiet about your vertlech .Nor der emes iz az di bisl amolike chein iz sheyn eich nito...Your own people in Crown Heights don't know what you're talking about because the BTs and their Amerikaner frumkeit are to Lubavitch what your sris is to T.B.
A 100 years ago, di people consider chabad to be weird?
i heard this same comment from baaleibatim who attended the aguda conference and the dinner @ the kinnus.
People don't go to tradeshows, conferences, to get depressed, mussared, and moirah shchoirah. They go to get uplifted and given some "juice" to go back to their day-to-day lives with new vigor and chayus. This is true of any trade show, and lehavdil Jewish conventions. I go to business related shows constantly and its always an upbeat message, even during the recession. Aguda blew it with this convention, and its no surprise that they are losing their relevance in the frum world.
One thing for sure, these so-called BTs did a very good job being masbir to Anash, TB. וד"ל
EM,
B.T., T.B....
איידעלקייט אליין, ניט שייכות צו זאגן!!!
Seriously though, while you raise SOME valid points, your view of what our young people are like is a caricature. The truth is that we have ALL kinds and the topic is not really related to this thread.
Anon 8:05:00 PM, you have got not the slightest of clues about the subject (I am afraid "in alle zinen")
Anon said: "The Kinus Shluchim was like the Rebbe's NBG"E Levaya. People singing and Dancing when they should've been crying."
That line is a winner!
Actually the Kinus hashluchim is supposed to COMMEMORATE the rebbes levaya, when they all came together to proudly proclaim "We looked death straight in the eye...and are alive to...never...tell the story."
having watched both the JETS GAME and Agudah meetings, it was like watching A BUNCH OF AIR HEADS versus a BEUTIFUL GATHERING OF YIDDEN and I'll let you guess which was which. One was upbeat, positive and rejoicing WITH PLENTY OF BOOZ, and the other was a nonstop cry of "Gevalt, Yidden!" and LETS NOT GO off the derech and LETS to do major league tshuvah.
"I speak to guys from NY in the local olei toreh and nobody knows Yiddish"
it a lie lie lie lie lie
you never spoke to nobody and the fact is they are taught in Yiddish from the are born.
You are a liar
Anon
"However Chabad is special. They couldnt care less about that stuff. They care about being "upbeat". The motto should be: "Why work on myself if I can work on others" (and have little success)"
Yeh, we get the drift...he prefers the bottle over the book.
Sadly...Typical."
You are 100% correct this was the avoda of all chassidim (you can check it out where chassidus is still alive)that Atzves is considered a bigger sin then sin itself.
for a starter, look in Tanya perek Cof Vov,
Liezer Hut Gemient, As the feter Luven Bikiesh(gemient/Gevolt) Lakoir as hakol,Vhakodash borech hu matzilene miyodov...
an even more amazing comment,was this one
==================================
oiber-chacham Says:
watching this amazing video,seeing how thousands of SHILUCHIM
emisaries of the REBBE,are spreading YIDISHKEIT from one end of the world to the other end,i was thinking to myself,how can we imagine even for a moment,that the Lubavitcher Rebbe z"l,is not alive,RABBOISAI,he is more alive than all of us put together,he is more alive than all the living REBBES and roshei hayeshivas,his TALMIDIM,his CHASIDIM,that he trained and nurtured,and convinced them,that they only have one TAFFKID in their life,and that is not a career,not their own selfish happines, not their own PARNASSA but to spread TORAH and YIDISHKEIT all over the world,and he succeded beyond anyones wildest imagination,his thousands of children are spreading torah and yidishkeit day and night all over the globe,Well let me ask you who is more alive ,us or the REBBE?
this is exactly what CHAZAL meant,when they said,YAACOV OVINU LOH MES,MAH ZAROH BECHAIM AF HU BECHAIM.
and by the way i am not a lubavitcher at all.
CH.S
Reply »
וואס זייט איהר אזוי אומעטיג? זייט איהר געקומען פון א מתנגד'ישע חתונה? איהר קומט דאך פון א חסיד'ישע לויה
sample of lubavitch decisiveness
but kissing to Reform and Hertztlists
Anon.
"As the feter Luven Bikiesh(gemient/Gevolt) Lakoir as hakol,Vhakodash borech hu matzilene miyodov..."
If Hatzala your referring to means being totally laughed at by the rest of klal yisroel and totally off the map and totally excommunicated. then death sound lot better
TO 12:23 AM Zeit meichel,but you are not normal. The Rosh Yeshive ,who is very well known,had to change to a broken English because the vast majority of the kids here cannot speak or understand Yiddish.He gives his shiurim in ah tzubrochenem English as do all the other magidei-shiur.So take a Valium and apologize for being a mechutzaf.By the way,why did ULY change to English in its cheider if everone speaks Yiddish.You are either living in a cave or are a professional apologist for the breakdown of Lubavitcher society in the past few years. Read the other Chabad blogs-they're full of stories about how no one speaks Yiddish anymore.Go back to the story about ULY not teaching ivre mit teitch and read the hundreds of comments.A language doesn't become extinct overnight but the process has begun.Even twenty years ago there were secular Yiddishistn who still spoke a geshmaken Yiddish. Today,it's over for them. If it's not used in the schools what chance does Yiddish have for survival in Lubavitch?
"Shneearson Teilung said-"
What does this teilung refer to?The teilung in Budapest?
E.M comments are hilarious.
>>>the BTs and their Amerikaner frumkeit are to Lubavitch what your sris is to T.B."
The BEST comment I heard in my "hole" life.
EM
".By the way,why did ULY change to English in its cheider if everone speaks Yiddish.You are either living in a cave or are a professional apologist for the breakdown of Lubavitcher society in the past few year"
I am in no dreamland, first and foremost, not using Yiddish is not the end and the apocalypse of the human race as we know it.
The majority of Charadie world does not talk it, outside of Willi, so get a six pack and chill about it, since Valium is not over the counter.
Since Lubavich landed in the USA the majority talk was always english, especially the temimim that were here before the Russians came.The Rebbe saw the usuage of the Yiddish language as a Geshmake thing to have but definitely far from a Ikkar in Yidishkiet, and so is the view of Reb Moshe and the Satmar Ruv
2nd thru all my chabadnik friends there are 2 Yungeliet from sefardic backgrounds, they are from very revered families in the Sephardic universe,there first grade Oholie Torah Kids are coming home every week with the parsha Tzetel in a perfect Yiddish.Which is bemes laughable to see this Kids speaking a good Yiddish,
So we are talking about 2 towns, and there is no reason to go this path of nonsense
EM
If the English speaking of CH is the sign of end of the world for CH, then why did Rabbi Schorr use that Language by the convention?
Were their so many chabadniks of CH by that convention?
Or Zwibel bussed in alot of BT's from Oyr somaech in Monsey?
Or he spoke to the majority of the Yeshiva world?
Anon 4:01 said: “The Kinus Shluchim was like the Rebbe's NBG"E Levaya. People singing and Dancing when they should've been crying.”
Kinus Shluchim, or Kinus Aguda כינוס or קינות That’s the question!
berl, crown heights 5:39 said: E.M., על זה נאמר:
... זיי מסביר א סריס טעם ביאה
מיום שחרב בית המקדש, ניטל טעם ביאה וניתן לעוברי עבירה
סנהדרין ע"ה
anon 2:16:00 PM, I am so sorry -
לא הוה ידענא דבצדיקיא עסקינן
:)
berl, crown heights said "I am so sorry -
לא הוה ידענא דבצדיקיא עסקינן
:) "
:)
anon: "You are 100% correct this was the avoda of all chassidim (you can check it out where chassidus is still alive)that Atzves is considered a bigger sin then sin itself."
Im a little confused, if it worse then sin, meaning forget everything else, which was the point of the original commenter, then if the old book is irrelevant... then there is no sin. And if there is no sin, then who cares about the sin of Atzvus. Unless there is a new book, or new testament if you will, that has one law: 'be happy, and enjoy life, there is no tomorrow'. Now when you look at it that way.. it actually fits perfectly with the Chabad of today that we have come to know, thats been totally marginalized to point that in our book they almost dont exist. . No wonder R' Leizer didnt let the bachurim learn Tanya.
Agudah is a political organization of power and money, they always find a high flutin moral topic which has nothing to do with their objective.. just a raleigh of hooh haa's! to focus on an agreeable topic and to raleigh the frum section especially temimi lev and rabunim.. to their cause they do this since their first כנסיה , VS. lubabich (for good or bad) is a brick and mortar organization who actually does something... like running shuls, kehilas, schools, yeshivas, shlicum etc..
You're forgetting about all the alcohol that gets downed at the shluchim gathering.
Anon
"just a raleigh of hooh haa's"
plz dont underestimate the Aguda, they got 2 yellow buses for each yeshiva in Brooklyn from the Obama stimulus package, its a once a Century achievement.
I forgot, how many years is it from Otvoczk???
Hyman,
"Im a little confused, if it worse then sin, meaning forget everything else, which was the point of the original commenter, then if the old book is irrelevant... then there is no sin. And if there is no sin, then who cares about the sin of Atzvus. Unless there is a new book, or new testament if you will, that has one law: 'be happy, and enjoy life, there is no tomorrow'. Now when you look at it that way.. it actually fits perfectly with the Chabad of today that we have come to know, thats been totally marginalized to point that in our book they almost dont exist. . No wonder R' Leizer didnt let the bachurim learn Tanya."
you are too deep and logical(deep logic like this is only found in the great sefer on Rambam Avi Ezri) for me,and we Chasidim have Emuna Peshita in our Rebiem(almost as u people have in Reb Kaniesky Ztlllllhu)and if our Rebiem say so we believe and follow like herd, and in the meantime we are happy.
Anon
"berl, crown heights 5:39 said: E.M., על זה נאמר:
... זיי מסביר א סריס טעם ביאה
מיום שחרב בית המקדש, ניטל טעם ביאה וניתן לעוברי עבירה
סנהדרין ע"ה"
Very colorfull and graphic
Anon
"berl, crown heights 5:39 said: E.M., על זה נאמר:
... זיי מסביר א סריס טעם ביאה
מיום שחרב בית המקדש, ניטל טעם ביאה וניתן לעוברי עבירה
סנהדרין ע"ה"
The holy Toldoth Yakov Yoseh writes in the name of his Rebbe the Holy Besht,"Machashavtoi Shel Hodom Shom Hu Nimtzo"
anon 3:26 said: "Very colorfull and graphic"
blame the מאמר on reb ר' יצחק , oh and i thought net users are jaded!
anon 3:21 said plz dont underestimate the Aguda, they got 2yellow buses"
to bus the free loaders and the camera men from one convention to the next maybe?
the place is rockin today -- a mechaya mamosh -- if we keep this laitzonus on Moshiach gait shoin balt keemin.
BTW the guy who said -- shom hoo nimtza has a dirty mind -- feh
If the Lubabs would contemplate self introspection all the shluchim would quit or become catholic. The point of the 'shluchim coonvention' is to rally them to continue.
The Agudah Convention is, and always was, self introspection.
Lots of people have no idea what this means thus they trash people and organizations that give themselves a 'cheshbon hanefesh'.
What a nebbi.
Anon
"The Agudah Convention is, and always was, self introspection"
I dont today, but the Agudah was famous for 1 thing,
It was a shiduchim bazzar between the fancy Hershis and fancy Mechis....
why do you think the Gerers never went to the convention, it was a Megulochim couple hangout...
Gie Hiek a chienik Far Dien Baben
Anon1:10 First you said I was a ligner five times-now you admit that most Lubavitchers speak English not Yiddish[w/a nice mayselle about some sefardim.] So if the language of record is English you are a ligner and a mechutzaf based on your previous comment.
To say that the Satmarer Rov didn't care about Yiddish is the biggest lie imaginable. What do all his Hassidim speak?Frantzoisish?Adrabeh,bring me a tape where he's speaking English.It doesn't exist.
In the thousands of hours of siches how many hours did the Rebbe speak in English?A couple of words,a couple of sentences here and there.99.99% in Yiddish.[Yes he said "in G-d we trust" in a broken English}
Lubavitch has its agenda for dropping Yiddish because it wants to change itself internally as well as externally.It's a new movement with new ideas-shlichus,being cool,hitting theRussian Billionaires and the Hollywood people for many tens of millions,and catering to the wealthy,intermarried,assimilated Jews of suburbia.This agenda requires the abandoning of the European,Yiddish foundations of the movement.There are exceptions to everything including this statement; nevertheless,this is where the "momentum" is in Lubavitch.The messhichism also plays a part in the rejection of the old European ways but that is too comlex an issue for now. If you doubt the veracity of my comments go see what Rabbi Heller and his supporters are screaming about the current matzev in Lubavitch.If I am just a crazed anti-Lubavitcher why does Rabbi Heller demand Yiddish be spoken? Why does he tell people to learn the Freirdiker Rebbe's likutei dibburim and michtovim about the seriousness of being a hosid? Yes,why?
Does anyone know what initiatives/projects Agudah is running these days?
Em
"Anon1:10 First you said I was a ligner five times-now you admit that most Lubavitchers speak English not Yiddish[w/a nice mayselle about some sefardim.] So if the language of record is English you are a ligner and a mechutzaf based on your previous comment."
noting changed from my side
"To say that the Satmarer Rov didn't care about Yiddish is the biggest lie imaginable. What do all his Hassidim speak?Frantzoisish?Adrabeh,bring me a tape where he's speaking English.It doesn't exist."
it is printrd and Hirshel had it years ago on the blog
"Lubavitch has its agenda for dropping Yiddish because it wants to change itself internally as well as externally.It's a new movement with new ideas-shlichus,being cool,hitting theRussian Billionaires and the Hollywood people for many tens of millions,and catering to the wealthy,intermarried,assimilated Jews of suburbia.This agenda requires the abandoning of the European,Yiddish foundations of the movement."
who made this decision Avremel shem Tov?
Yidel Krinsky?
Moshe Katlarsky?
Aronov?
Kunin?
Lazar?
was it a meeting between all this guys?
where in the &&0 boiler room?
which year?
Oif Yidish Geredt,You are a Groisse Ferd
"Yes,why?"
why does Rav Avrohom Shor say that the whole world are Balie Aviera/
Yes Why.....???
Noch Amoil Oif Yidish Geredt,You are a Groisse Ferd
Listen EM ret tzum inyan. The Rebbe said many times, i heard with my own ears, the language of the Baal Shem Tov was yiddish velochain the language of all nesiim and chassidis is in yiddish.
The REAL comment of the century was anon Tuesday, November 29, 2011 4:01:00 PM:
"The Kinus Shluchim was like the Rebbe's NBG"E Levaya. People singing and Dancing when they should've been crying."
HA!!
WHAT A RIPPER!!!!!!!!!!!!
"The Kinus Shluchim was like the Rebbe's NBG"E Levaya. People singing and Dancing when they should've been crying."
you got it wrong. they SHOULD NOT have been crying at the levaya. (and Im not a Lubavitcher)
which rosh yeshiva are you talking about? i am in o.t. and the rosh yeshiva speaks in a yidish that would put many other roshei yeshiva to shame.
also there is a chiluk between o.t. and u.l.y. kaposhut
try to compare the yidish of yeruchem olshin ledugma to the yidish of reb yisroel friedman in o.t.. and thats besides for his knowledge of so many practicle words, whereas other roshei yeshiva will say haint some word in loshon hakodesh or english
yisroel friedman? haha! you're joking right?
TO 8:01 "nothing changed from my side"-first you said people in Lubavitch DO speak Yiddish then you said they speak English. So you are a ligner because both of your comments can't be true.
"It was printrd"-you said that Satmar was not for Yiddish but English is OK. This is so laughable it does not need to be discussed.Is anything done in Willy or Monroe in any language other than Yiddish?Does Aron or Zalman Leib speak in English?
The Americanization and modernization of Lubavitch is public knowledge. By the way tell me why Rabbi Yosef Heller is fighting this trend with all his keiches. This you conveniently forgot to answer.If Lubavitch is not undergoing a dramatic change why are there hundreds of comments on COLive and Crown heights.info every time this theme is mentioned?If the only way for you to deal with the breakdown of what was the crown jewel of Hassidus is by calling me a greiser ferd,then be my guest.
PS R.Avreml Schorr believes deeply in shemiras habris.So did the Satmar Rov and most other Tzaddikim throughout the centuries. Did you ever learn the mitteler Rebbe's Hassidus?It is filled with the same inyonim.It is brought down in Tanya too.The Rebbe himself had a siche about it in the early years.So watch what you say.
EM
""It was printrd"-you said that Satmar was not for Yiddish but English is OK. This is so laughable it does not need to be discussed.Is anything done in Willy or Monroe in any language other than Yiddish?Does Aron or Zalman Leib speak in English?"
I never said that Satmar does not posses 2 newspaper of Weekly Shefichas Domim in the their filthy yiddish language,and their is all circled in Yiddish, I just said and I repeat it again, that Satmar Ruv wrote that Yiddish is no Ikker, that your obsession of it is ludicrous.
Kevodoi ShelRav Heller Bimkoimoi Munach if he see that Lubaciches problem is the non Yiddish in CH.
I see that your barometer of Ch is thru comments on the Chabad sites.
I don"t follow blogs, but I can see from this site that 90% of comment writer are idiots.
EM
"?If the only way for you to deal with the breakdown of what was the crown jewel of Hassidus is by calling me a greiser ferd,then be my guest."
just to clarify, I don"t plan neither am I capable to fix the problem of CH,Willi,Lakewood etc...
Its bigger then you and me,but I still got to call out a Ferd when i see one
EM
"PS R.Avreml Schorr believes deeply in shemiras habris"
his own?or the worlds?
Em
U did not give us yet the day of the Meeting in Chabad headquarters on the major decision that all is being switched to English.
Does Rav Heller know about that meeting?
EM
"PS R.Avreml Schorr believes deeply in shemiras habris."
Its ironic that the Shomer Habris Reb Avrohom, spoke by the convention inenglish, is not the english language the devil?
Gerer Chasidus the flagship of Shemiras Habris is a community with 100% hebrew(worse then english) speaking chasidim,is it not absurd?
Ask Rav Heller he should explain it.
Negativity, name-calling, bashing, etc., random people saying whatever they want about whoever they want whenever they want...
Hey, guys, please get off the
Internet and stop making us like a bunch of idiots who hate each other!
(All y'all know I love ya...)
Lubavitch claims that there were 5,000 at their banquet. I want to see a list and breakdown of the attendees.
Seems fishy and inflated to me to make them look more important and bigger than they really are.
Also, the comparison between the Agudah convention and the banquet is not exactly equal. They are different type of events. The convention doesn't have a single large banquet as the main focus of things like the one in Red Hook.
what is laughable about reb yisroel friedmans yidish surpassing reb yerucham olshin? have you ever heard a full shiur from reb yisroel?
anon 12:18said: "Gerer Chasidus the flagship of Shemiras Habris is a community with 100% hebrew(worse then english) speaking chasidim,is it not absurd?"
ולא תתורו אחרי לבבכם זו מינות ואחרי עיניכם זו זנות in my cumash it's written in one sentence, meaning one doesn't do one without the other, flagship of Shemiras Habris? IDK, flagship of frum מינות? I do know!
To whom it may concern:
1]Bring me the quote from the satmarer Rebbe. Enough empty talk. Quote please.
2]I have a shayches to Lubavitch not Ger. If there is something wrong in Ger let the Poilishe deal with it.
3}I know fully what is going on in Lubavitch. I bring quotes from websites to show that the problems I mentioned are generally acknowledged as real by normal people.
4]Is Rabbi Heller some strange eccentric person? No,he is one of the original Rabbonim of Ch and you have no answer to the fact that he has been screaming about these issues for years.
5]I never said there was a conspiratorial meeting in Merkoz.The fact is that when one's constituency becomes BT's and intermarried assimilated Jews in Nebraska and Missouri,then you will inevitably have to change your language and culture and dress so that you can relate to them in a comfortable manner.Language and customs change slowly not abruptly. The Americanization process has been going on in Lubavitch for quite a while.I repeat that in order for shluchim to relate to their "clients" they will have to adopt American patterns of behavior.That seems self-evident.
6]Have a gutn shabbes.
"Lubavitch claims that there were 5,000 at their banquet. I want to see a list and breakdown of the attendees. "
please pursue that issue, and I hope that you will find them off with their numbers, you will write a book about it, u will be a best seller author, and you will lead a real fulfiling life...
I think u should name the book The 5000 Men Swindle of the Century
The Aguda convention? It's simply עשו שונא ליעקב
Oh, and Moshe Rebenu didn't speak Yiddish. Get over yourselves and worry about real issues (and yes, I speak Yiddish and love it)
If we are taught to believe that Moshe Rabeinu knew everything that a "talmid vosik" would be mechadesh ad sof kol hadoros,why could he not have spoken Yiddish as well? If he knew what the Besht and other Yiddish speaking tzaddikim would say at their tishn and farbreingenishn,then he must have understood Yiddish,too.
He didn't know what Rebbi was talking about and that was Shas until they said "Halocho L'Moshe MiSinai" ... get real will you. He didn't speak Deutsch+Ivri+Polish+Russian+whatever=Yiddish/Yinglish
(sorry, I didn't include Ungarish as that's goyish)
pitputim
"שלא שינו שמם, לשונם ומלבושם."
"ואל היהודים ככתבם וכלשונם"
"שלא שינו שמם, לשונם ומלבושם."
"ואל היהודים ככתבם וכלשונם"
Nowhere does it say ומלבושם
piputim (blabel) 9:16 said: "He didn't speak Deutsch+Ivri+Polish+Russian+whatever=Yiddish/Yinglish"
The Whole is not Equal to the Sum of Its parts
anon 10:16 said: " Nowhere does it say ומלבושם "
בפסיקתא זוטרתא (לקח טוב) בראשית פרק מו כתוב: ואת יהודה שלח לפניו אל יוסף, סוד העמידה של ישראל בגלות מצרים הוא עצם זה שלא שינו את שמם,לשונם ומלבושם ונשארו מבודדים
במדבר רבה דפוס וונציאה ששם הגרסה ``שלשה דברים לא שינו ישראל במצרים שמותם ומלבושם ולשונם
EM
"1]Bring me the quote from the satmarer Rebbe. Enough empty talk. Quote please."
will u change your mind then? if not why work?
EM
"]I never said there was a conspiratorial meeting in Merkoz.The fact is that when one's constituency becomes BT's and intermarried assimilated Jews in Nebraska and Missour"
how many Shemtovs,Guraries,Greenbergs,etc.. have you seen getting married to some assimilated families in Montana? it does not happen, if it it does happen, it is usualy a special case that you are happy he found a shiduch, and this things happen in every community that the outcasts you them find some match, no difference where it comes from.
EM
"Lubavitch has its agenda for dropping Yiddish because it wants to change itself internally as well as externally.It's a new movement with new ideas-shlichus,being cool,hitting theRussian Billionaires and the Hollywood people for many tens of millions,and catering to the wealthy,intermarried,assimilated Jews of suburbia.This agenda requires the abandoning of the European,Yiddish foundations of the movement"
I am sorry, but you write that the Movement/Agenda had to change for some Russian billionaires....bla bla
You have a right to change your mind, but this is what you said.
Em
"2]I have a shayches to Lubavitch not Ger. If there is something wrong in Ger let the Poilishe deal with it."
I did not say you are polish or Russian, Hungarian, it doesn't matter, the issue is that their is yeridas hadoirois all around, and don't try to knock Lubavich by putting it on a higher pedestal, than knock it.
Em
"4]Is Rabbi Heller some strange eccentric person? No,he is one of the original Rabbonim of Ch and you have no answer to the fact that he has been screaming about these issues for years."
how often does the Rav talk about this problem?
why cant there be room for both Aguda and Chabad? when the yidden left mitzrayim there were twelve shvotim. it seems that too many would like to argue instead of leaving their mitzrayim.
anon 9:21 "why cant there be room for both Aguda and Chabad?"
Inc. שקר & שלימזל
anon: "the issue is that their is yeridas hadoirois all around"
The unfortunate natural yeridas hadoirois is one thing, but deliberately destroying generation after generation with chasisdic style assimilation by unqualified leaders! Portraying themselves and their movement as authentic That’s scandalous !?
שלמה אהיה כעטיה על עדרי חבריך
רש"י
וא"ת מה איכפת לך אין זה כבודך שאהיה כאבילה עוטה על שפה בוכיה על צאני
אם-לא תדעי לך, היפה בנשים; צאי-לך בעקבי הצאן, ורעי את-גדייותייך, על, משכנות הרועים
Anon
"but deliberately destroying generation after generation with chasisdic style assimilation by unqualified leaders!"
awhile back a shiduch happened between a Kj alumni and a Shikse, they both worked in BH,then they got a heter from the משכנות הרועים.
was she היפה בנשים; from all the בעקבי הצאן,? or from the "unqualified leaders"?
Anon
"why cant there be room for both Aguda and Chabad?"
did anyone say that one is contradicting, the Rebbe used to send a letter to the conventions till it was hijacked by Rav Svie and some other Bnie Kotrach, who were rabble rousing on the agenda of rightwing leftwing labels.
Today whemn they are all Tachas Kanfie hashechuana, there is no reason to keep it up.
anon 1:00 "awhile back a shiduch happened between a Kj (never happened) alumni and a Shikse, they both worked in BH,then they got a heter from the משכנות הרועים"
Sorry anon the converstaion is not about a Shikse theirs or yours, just read on:
פי' רש"י
"אם לא תדעי לך" - זו היא תשובת הרועה אם לא תדעי לך להיכן תלכי לרעות צאנך את היפה בנשים שחדל לו הרועה מלהנהיג אותם
"צאי לך בעקבי הצאן" - הסתכלי בפסיעת דרך שהלכו הצאן והעקבים ניכרים טראצי"ט בלע"ז וכן הרבה במקרא (תהלים עז) ועקבותיך לא נודעו (ירמיהו יג) נחמסו עקבך (בראשית מט) והוא יגוד עקב ישוב על עקביו ואותו הדרך לכי
"ורעי את גדיתיך על משכנות הרועים" - בין משכנות שאר הרועים שאת אצלם וזה הדוגמא אם לא תדעי לך כנסייתי ועדתי היפה בנשים בשאר אומות איכה תרעי ותנצלי מיד המציקים לך להיות ביניהם ולא יאבדו בניך התבונני בדרכי אבותיך הראשונים שקבלו תורתי ושמרו משמרתי ומצותי ולכי בדרכיהם ואף בשכר זאת תרעי גדיותיך אצל שרי האומות וכן אמר ירמיהו (ירמיהו לא) הציבי לך ציונים שיתי לבך למסילה וגו'
anon 1:00 said: "then they got a heter from the משכנות הרועים.
was she היפה בנשים; from all the בעקבי הצאן,? "
גמ' במס' סוכה דף מח' הנהו תרי מיני חד שמיה ששון, וחד שמיה שמחה, אמר ליה ששון לשמחה אנא עדיפנא מינך דכתיב: ששון ושמחה ישיגו וגו', אמר ליה שמחה לששון: אנא עדיפנא מינך, דכתיב: שמחה וששון ליהודים
פי' מהרש"א, כך דרך המינים לפרש הכתובים על עצמם לפי סכלותם והבלם
anon 1:00 said: "they got a heter from the משכנות הרועים.
was she היפה בנשים; from all the בעקבי הצאן,? "
גמ' במס' סוכה דף מח' הנהו תרי מיני חד שמיה ששון, וחד שמיה שמחה, אמר ליה ששון לשמחה אנא עדיפנא מינך דכתיב: ששון ושמחה ישיגו וגו', אמר ליה שמחה לששון: אנא עדיפנא מינך, דכתיב: שמחה וששון ליהודים,
פי' מהרש"א, כך דרך המינים לפרש הכתובים על עצמם לפי סכלותם והבלם
Anon
"The unfortunate natural yeridas hadoirois is one thing, but deliberately destroying generation after generation with chasisdic style assimilation by unqualified leaders! Portraying themselves and their movement as authentic That’s scandalous !?
שלמה אהיה כעטיה על עדרי חבריך
רש"י
וא"ת מה איכפת לך אין זה כבודך שאהיה כאבילה עוטה על שפה בוכיה על צאני
אם-לא תדעי לך, היפה בנשים; צאי-לך בעקבי הצאן, ורעי את-גדייותייך, על, משכנות הרועים"
On your obssesion of applying pesukim, Chochen echod showed me the following
פי' מהרש"א, כך דרך המינים לפרש הכתובים על עצמם לפי סכלותם והבלם
I think the Marsho is in Masectas sukka
anon : "I think the Marsho is in Masectas sukka"
גמ' במס' סוכה דף מח'
tanx for the source
can anyone post a link to the letters that the rebbe sent to the conventions? thanks
there are enough sifrie maftechoth
anon 3:05 "On your obssesion of applying pesukim, Chochen echod showed me the following"
אסתרא בלגינא קיש קיש קריא
My previous comments are clear and you are welcome to misinterpret them in accordance with your needs.However,I must ask why it is such a big deal for someone to criticize Lubavitch? Does Lubavitch have special immunity whereby one cannot offer any criticism of Lubavitch?Why does Lubavitch need to constantly be praising its own work 24hrs/day?Does Agudah or Satmar or Belz even approach such silliness?You have at least a dozen websites issuing constant updates on every shliach running a marathon or visiting a sleazy politician.By the way the Rebbe himself used to criticize Chassidim over issues such as wall to wall carpeting,television,college,drunkenness,etc,etc.Lubavitch itself is involved in multiple lawsuits between various warring factions in state and federal court but you want the world to pretend that everything is coming up roses in HabadLand?
EM
"Does Lubavitch have special immunity whereby one cannot offer any criticism of Lubavitch?Why does Lubavitch need to constantly be praising its own work 24hrs/day?Does Agudah or Satmar or Belz even approach such silliness?"
you are a naive ferd just for asking this question.Chabad is a target for verbal harassment for the last 70 years, I will not list them all.
Satmar has 3 newspaper that are doing PR for them for 50 years,and 20 annual PR eventsand the Aguda is only PR. Your hate to chabad is so strong that it irks you even the little kfar chabad Pr.
What does Mussar of the Rebbe or Maspiem by Farbrengens have to do with all the chabad bashing on this site, if you dont get it you are again a Naive ferd.
EM 10:43 said: "why it is such a big deal for someone to criticize Lubavitch?"
Isn't that what you're doing right now? Criticizing Lubavitch? However I'm not so sure that lubab didn't pass that threshold where just criticize it will help..! lubabvitch to survive may have to be splittered in half and announce loud and clear מי לד' אלי separate kehilos, schools etc. with all the old glory of lubab פון אמאל including שם לבוש לשון which was always a trademark by Chasidim more so than by others! And for does who don’t want it can stay with the assimilated lubab Inc. culture and bear the consequences. (just a thought)
Yes,criticizing is what I am doing but I've been on this blog long enough to remember that there is always a chorus of Lubavitcher bloggers who are demanding that all criticism be squashed.The response to my comments are completely disproportionate to anything that I might have said.Furthermore, the comparison to Satmer is ridiculous since by virtue of their media being Yiddish only-
their audience is limited to Heimishe kreizen and is never read by the English speaking Jewish or Gentile world.Nor does the Yid or Blatt have a constant update on what every klei kodesh or recently married yungerman is doing and whom he met and "chanfehd" last week.No organization puts so much money and time into PR as does Lubavitch.I do agree that Lubavitch needs a tailung as soon as possible from the "moderne" and the Messhichistn.Let's start over with whatever is left.
em 3:04 said: "Let's start over with whatever is left."
I was raised not by the yid or blatt but by the than only reliable jewish weekly called שמועסן מיט קינדער given out by קהת I assume it was as you say for the Heimishe kreizen (of course pub. lubab included) since those years yiddish is on the rise all over by the Heimishe kreizen.. (except lubab!) but lubab stopped catering to them!! and goes after whatever.. there must be 2 lubab's one for whomever.. and one strictly Heimishe kreizen if not it will c"v get lost! you say "Let's start over with whatever is left"? a lot is left, just build it they will come...
!לבשי בּגדי תפארתך ליבאוויטש
satmar like lubavitch both rebbes left no will who should lead afterwards maybe for different reasons, but I can tell you that SR was scared of so called 'leaders' that they may mislead, but was equally scared by 'no leadership' in the end that's what's happening in satmar today half has (or wants to have) a leader, and the other half don't have (or don't wants to have) a leader! and they go for the jugular on each other! Unfortunate, but this model seems to work !
קנאת סופרים תרבה חכמה
Anon.3:29
Gut gezogt. Kol tuv.
Em
"Nor does the Yid or Blatt have a constant update on what every klei kodesh or recently married yungerman is doing and whom he met and "chanfehd" last week"
but they every week that (Klie Kodesh) Krechnef Beer Sheba from Monsey married off his son to the (Klie Kodesh)Chernovitz Biet Shemesh of Manchester.
Em
"Furthermore, the comparison to Satmer is ridiculous since by virtue of their media being Yiddish only-
their audience is limited to Heimishe kreizen and is never read by the English speaking Jewish or Gentile world.Nor does the Yid or Blatt have a constant update on what every klei kodesh or recently married yungerman is doing and whom he met and "chanfehd" last week"
So Pr, pirsum and hanife is ossur in English and muttar in Yiddish
What a Naive Ferd
EM
"I do agree that Lubavitch needs a tailung as soon as possible from the "moderne" and the Messhichistn.Let's start over with whatever is left."
1)I dont know if you that the Rebiem of chabad were against a tielung, they are not so gong ho as the Magyers to dump other
Jews,maybe the Magyers were right, but by chasidim they were against it.
2)How about a Meshichist that speaks Yissish and his wife wears a shawl, should he be dumped too/
ask your Rav,Rav Heller
Anon
"since those years yiddish is on the rise all over by the Heimishe kreizen.. "
is Lakewood,Passaic,Fallsburgh,Ponovezh,Grodno not Hiemishe Kriezen?
1]Kretchinef is a chassidus whose goings on the Yid reports. They don't report what a certain Gross or Weiss did last week and whether a 23 yr.old shmendrik met with the mayor of TimBukToo.
2]Who is the Yid chanfening? Lubavitch? The MO's? Don't think so.At election time they do chanfe the goyishe and Reform Jewish politicians and that is wrong.
3]Meshichism must go even with a shal and a sheitel over it.
4]Yiddish is on the rise among hassidim outside of Lubavitch and Ger but has suffered greatly in the Yeshiva world.English and Ivrit are on the rise there.
EM
1)Krechnif,visnitz,Belz,Pittsburgh,Kuzmir,Moshlou are chasidus in your brain, but less important to report then any Shaliach that put on once tefilin for a Karkafta deloi Manach tefilin
2)I am too stupid to decipher your nonsense
3)
4)I think you should work for the Idishister Farband in the Arbieter ring, you sit on the pulse of Yidishisim
Ufgemisht arbeter ring mit Kretchenef mit Farband mit Belz...stam geploidert...klept nit a vort tzu a vort...
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