Wednesday, May 1, 2013
what do you do when you need to write about a VERY embarrassing topic on your blog, namely that one of your mentors is a fraud?
You close comments. Which is what Reb Gil Student, who has no problem condemning people like SMR and allowing the dissenting comments to flow fast and steady, did when it came to write about the Michael Broyde fraud fiasco. Intellectual honesty, anyone?
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36 comments:
Your not surprised are you?
no, but I just wish guys like him would stop with the charade, that's all.
I guess when its your own blood,and the blood of your Idol, then all MO/openness goes to rubbish, what a farce,
By the SMR story he and Maryless, were dancing on the blood,of a Jew father of 10,that was about to get sentenced to prison for life, with big meeting in the YU halls,and new Tzedek Hashgochas,verbaly harrasing any Rav that was pro SMR. Now when the last talmid chochem of the MO world, fell like a house of cards, Gill Student censors(like the Hamodia or Yated) and pleads the fifth, acts like Charadie Shbechardie
The world is changing at a rapid pace. In our own lifetimes we have lived through the Internet Revolution and the Mobile Phone Revolution. The prophets have predicted the rapid advances of science and technology during the End of Days, and we are witnessing it and living it day by day.
The computer is now cornering the market on crime. Cyber criminals create credit card fraud, and the virtual world has virtually replaced theft via electronic medium. Computer experts now warrant warrants, and forensics are more often than not related to hard drives rather than hard bodies.
The question we must grapple with is whether computer related sockpuppetry is par for the course or prohibited as a matter of course.
Of course.
Self promotion is practiced by many who want a job promotion, but the Torah cautions quite clearly: מדבר שקר תרחק. Even though there may be no monetary gain, falsehood should be avoided at all costs. Similarly, penetrating a listserv that does not want you as a member, should be honored even if you have penetrating analyses to share.
Perhaps we need some peer reviewed papers to peer into the legalities of such chicanery; yet it is somewhat of a difficult feat to find someone whose feet are wet in both Talmudic and American Law. Hare-brained logic is not welcome here, hair-splitting arguments are, as long as your sources are uncovered.
Yet all the above pales in comparison to one who rewrites history to push his own agenda. Creating fictitious first-hand accounts of events that never happened, egregiously putting words into the mouths of the Greats of yesteryear should be eschewed not only by Dayanim and law professors alike, but also by the man on the street. This goes beyond the pale.
I believe that Gil was in shock about the whole incident since Broyde lied to him (claimed that "Keter" spoke to him)and Gil based upon that lie printed his article. Tzig, if you want to discuss this issue do it, but take pity on Gil and leave him out of it.Also, if Broyde would have been "merely" involved in some one time "indiscretion" as some other Chareidi rabbonim did, Gil would have forgiven him. But Broyde has been lieing and fooling his friends for years now. That's tough to digest.
Kovner
you are not getting it, Gil has all the rights to be shocked and pained, but why is this pain deeper and larger then the pain he and his cohorts were pouring on a genuine Jew like SMR.... a father of 10 kids, that maybe did some mistakes,in his business dealings. but got incarcerated by some red Neck Judge for life as if he was serial killer.If you followed the case then you saw the way all this negative media were working against Rubashkin. there was no pity from Gils side, he went on and on, all in the name of charadie bashing and media openness.
In the original post he allowed comments. In the David Keter post, the comments are closed. It is hypocrisy. The mitigating factor is that Gil was duped and is part of the story. It's his blog.
He should allow comments. You are not being honest, he allowed over 300 comments on the first post. Not only that Broyde, apologized somewhat. Which is not something, we hareidim do.
spinka rebbe did
Tzig,
If one of the great Lubavitcher mashpiim today with whom you are close would be caught in a scandal, would you open a discussion about it?
so then Gil is a partisan like me?
I don't believe I discuss scandal at all, no matter who it is
Gil is unique in that he has one foot in the MO world and one in the chareidi world. My impression is that he is honest in his crticism of both worlds.His lack of criticising Broyde isn't because he's MO; if Broyde would be Chareidi his reaction would have been the same.
This discussion prompts me to raise the following ethical question: On the one hand, the blog readers here don't want to read censored whitewashed news as is presented in the Chareidi press. On the other hand we are required to love all Jews as brothers. The same way Gil felt about Broyde and Tzig feels about every Lubavitcher we should feel about every Jew. So how can we ever publish and discuss scandals within the Orthodox world?
I bhelieve you guys are falsely accusing Gil, perhaps confusing him with Maryles.
Please show me a link where he condemned SMR (Tzig's words) or "dances on SMR's blood" (Binfol oivecha's words not mine.
Honestly, I don't think either of these ever happened. Gil rarely if ever condemns or criticizes people in his posts, he addresses issues and ideas and mostly stays out of politics. Furthermore, he wrote somewhere that he closed comments on the direction of his posek, so I don't see how you can criticize him for that.
Did you notice that Gil is a source to the Jewish Channel reporter who took Broyd down?
Kovner
"if Broyde would be Chareidi his reaction would have been the same."
you are not correct, he gave very small coverage for the 2 YU molestation scandals, vs. what he gave for all the charadie scandal, and the same goes to Maryles,
I'm not so sure that Gil was "dancing on the blood,of a Jew father of 10". Actually I'm quite sure he was not. My impression of him, based on years of reading his writings, is that he is very honest about the indiscretions of all camps. He never struck me as a cheerleader. That said, I cut him some slack for his reaction to the MB story. There is not much to say when each passing day brings another revelation. It is hard to imagine the depth of disappointment one must feel when someone who you genuinely respected as a Torah leader experiences such a fall from grace.
"I don't believe I discuss scandal at all, no matter who it is"
Ahem.
You mean you don't discuss LUBAVITCH scandal, don't you?
You are obviously very jealous of Gil.
He knows much more than you ever will.
He writes much better than you ever will.
He discusses Torah and real issues as opposed to Lubavitcher garbage, nonsensical questions about mitzva dances etc, etc...
His audience is many times the size of yours.
He blogs with his real name something you don't have the herék to do.
where do you find such erudite guest posters?
ahem, you. I mean I don't discuss ANY scandal.
Lkwd Guy
"I'm not so sure that Gil was "dancing on the blood,of a Jew father of 10". Actually I'm quite sure he was not."
you are not correct, his articles were written with a lot of charadie jew hate, plus the comments were all soaked in blood of a Jew father of 10, which now I realize that he can put a stop if his blood is involved
Binfoil Oivechoi
Care to find some relevant quotes?
(BTW, correct pronunciation is binfoil o-yivcha. See Mishlei 24:17)
Your giddiness is inappropriate. This type of post vever happens on Hirhurim. The commenters are erudite and generally civil as opposed to what passes for conversation over here.
I'm giddy?
read your words
you're dancing on Gil Student's blood
Hirhurim allows all comments not like you and he gets intelligent comments
You monitor the comments and the comments are still nasty.
Many have lamented that the quality of the comments on this blog have deteriorated and a post like this one lowers the level of dialogue.
It's your party and you could you do what you want
ok, so I should turn the other cheek? I get it.
yes, you should. you're picking on a guy that would not do this to you
Fed Up
as the sain Israel
Loi Nislach Veloi nishkach how the Mo community (and Gil was a paerticipant) acted, They were part of the lynching of a Jew father of 10.
I begged Hirshel then to answer the Ou/Mo community, when they were all busy acting as more pope then the pope more anti Jew then any Goi....
Binfol (and Tzig to a lesser extent)
You're pepetuating outright sheker. Show me where Gil was part of any "lynching", "dancing on blood" or condemning.
Sheker vechazav, bc it never happened. You're both being motzi shem ra and you both should be ashamed of yourselves.
Does Hershel work for you? go back to all articles of those few years and check it out...do the leg work youself
I blood is still boiling from his articles and the comments that were all part of Lynching the Father of 10, it was discussed then many times on this blog..
Anonymous Fed Up In Peoria said...
read your words
you're dancing on Gil Student's blood
Hirhurim allows all comments not like you and he gets intelligent comments
===Allows?! Besides it touches his own kavod!
Censor is censor!
Lets change the headline
What does Tzig do when he has to write about a very EMBARRASSING topic involving Lubavitch inc??
(he won't even acknowledge it, let alone blog about it, let alone allow any comments)
INTELLECTUAL HONESTY,ANYONE
(Not in Tzigland)
Graidy
Tzig does not claim to be objective and above and beyond
Superintendant Chalmers
Below is 1 of Gils articles aiding to lynch a Jew father of 10
Buying Rubashkin III
August 8, 2008
Jewish newspapers are reporting on a rabbinic delegation that toured the Agriprocessors plant and, according to these reports, are declaring that there are no issues of concern there (5TJT, Jewish Press, JTA, Forward, Hamodia-PDF, Yated-PDF). If this is being reported properly, I’m simply at a loss. Perhaps what these rabbis meant was that, as of now, there has been insufficient investigation into the matter to justify refraining from buying Rubashkin meat. With my limited understanding, I agree (link).
But I can’t fathom how anyone, especially someone with no training or experience, can take a quick tour and render judgment on the matter. It is simply mind-boggling. There are many reports and I haven’t read each closely, but I don’t recall seeing anything about the rabbis interviewing the accusers. Or about them consulting financial records, medical records, and police reports. Did they speak to anyone at the local emergency room or at OSHA? I’m no expert but don’t these seem like things you should do before reaching a conclusion. Did they?
As I wrote before (link), it is a sign of wisdom to know what you don’t know. I’m having trouble with this whole episode and the only way I can understand it is by believing that these rabbis were somehow misunderstood and/or misquoted.
Superintendant Chalmers
Genack another OU rabbi trying to please Peta and aiding Mesira of a father of 10
www.ou.org/index.php/news/article/43525
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