שושן פורים אין סאטמאר-ראדני
דאס יהדות החרדית איז אויף טישן און אויף בענק ס'הייסט? אזא מעשה? בפני כל עם ועדה זאל מען אזוי לאכן פון א גדול בישראל, א רבי פון טויזנטער חסידים? אין יאר 2011, ווען יעדער שריט און טריט ווערט אראפגעכאפט דורך פארשידענע כלים, סיי פאטאגראפיעס, סיי ווידעא מכלים שונים, און מיט איין קוועטש איז עס אויפ'ן נעץ, גלוי לעין כל. איי, וועט איר זאגן, "ס'איז דאך פורים!" און פורים מעג מען דאך, און אזוי האט מען טאקע געטוהן אלע יארן ביי דער סאטמאר רב, ז"ל, ביים טיש, וועלן די וואס זענען געווען ביים טיש זאגן אז אזאנס האט מען נאך נישט געזעהן - ביים רב אויך נישט. וואס זאל איך אייך זאגן, מורי ורבותי? איך בין נישט צוקראצט געווארען דערפון! הירשל ציג, דער זעלבער וועלכע שטייט און שרייט שוין יארן לאנג אז מ'האט נישט ליב די ליובאוויטשער חסידים, און אז מ'שרייבט נישט וועגן זייערע אקטיוויטעטן אין די צייטונגען, און דער וועלכע וואלט לפי"ז געדארפט שטיין און שרייען פון די דעכער און מוחה זיין, איז איבערהויפט נישט אינטערעסירט דעראין, און וועט קיין "מחאה" נישט מאכען איבער דעם נארישען פורים רב. פארוואס? זייער פשוט. איך האב זיך קיינמאל נישט איינגערעדט אז ס'איז שוין "וגר זאב עם כבש," אפילו נאך פאלם ספרינגס און מומבאי און בעידזשינג, און מקוואות אין טעקסעס וואס ווערן געבויט דורך חסידי ליובאוויטש און מיט די געלט שטיצע פון חסידי סאטמאר הי"ו. איך פארשטיי אז אלטע רגילות'ן איז שווער פטור ווערן פון זיי, ובפרט אז מ'מיינט אז ס'איז א מלחמת מצוה, וואס אוודאי געוויס איז אזוי געווען ביי די חסידי סאטמאר-ראדני, וואס פון קינדווייז אהן האט מען זיי געהאדעוועט אז ליובאוויטשער חסידים זענען כמעט ווי די פארטאריקער אין די פראדזשעקטס, ר"ל. ס'איז מיר זייער שווער צו "שאפן א כעס" און צו שרייבן אז איך פארלאנג מ'זאל אונז איבערבעטן ווען איך פיל עס נישט מיט'ן גאנצן הארץ. און טאמער איז מיר שווער וועל איך עס נישט טוהן. חוץ פון דעם קען מען גאר גרינג זאגן אז די "זאלי" פארטיי איז א טויטער פערד, און א טויטער פערד שטויסט מען נישט, און אויב שטויסט מען יא איז דאס סתם לבטלה. איך פארגין זיי דאס ביסאלע געלעכטער אום שושן פורים, כאטש ס'איז על חשבון רבינו, ווייל אגאנץ יאר איז דארט גאר ביטער און קאלאמוטנע דער מצב.
הרב שלום בער סורוצקין
און דערנאך איז היינט (יעצט שוין נעכטן) אנגעקומען נאך א ידיעה וועלכע וועט באפרייען די שונאים נאך מער. אין ארץ ישראל איז פאראן א "נעץ" פון כוללים וועלכע ווערט אנגעפירט דורך הרב שלום בער סורוצקין, אן אייניקל פונעם לוצקער רב, הרב ר' זלמן סאראצקין ז"ל. דער סורוצקין איז אן אנהענגער פון דער ראש ישיבה, הרב ר' אהרן לייב שטיינמאן, און ראט זיך מיט אים אין אלץ וואס ער טוט. אזוי ווי דער יו"ט פסח האלט שויןן אוטוטו,, איז דער כולל יעצט פארנומען מיט באזארגן די יונגעלייט פון די כוללים מיט צרכי החג. הרב סורוצקין געפענט זיך יעצט אין אויסלאנד, טאקע צוליב דעם כולל, און האט זיך נישט גערישט אויף אזא געפערליכע מעשה. וואס איז די מעשה? וועל איך אייך פארציילן, זיצט רואיג א מינוט, כאפט נישט. די הנהלה פון די כוללים האט לעצטנס געמאכט א שותפות מיט "כולל חב"ד," דער עלטסטער "כולל" אין ארץ ישראל, וועלכע פירט אהן מיט בתי תמחוי און מעדיצינישע קליניקס אין ארץ ישראל, ווי אויך אין אנדערע לענדער. צווישן אנדערע זאכן טוהען זיי אויך פאנאנדער טיילן פיל פעקלעך פאר משפחות פאר די ימים טובים, פאר אנשי חב"ד, ווי אויך פאר אידן נישט פון די חב"ד'ער קרייזן. זיי העלפן סובסידירן תפלין פאר בר-מצוה בחורים, שיך און קליידונג פאר אינגלעך און מיידלעך, און פירן אהן מיט א ביליגע חתונה זאל פאר נויטבאדערפיגע משפחות. דא איז נישט דאס פלאץ אויף אויסרעכענען וואס נאר כולל חב"ד טוט. די שותפות איז אז "עטרת שלמה" וועט צאלן א "מחיר סמלי" פאר כולל חב"ד, צו אפשר נישט אזוי סמלי, נאר אפשר בכסף מלא, און כולל חב"ד וועט צושטעלן די אלע געברויכן פאר די משפחות פון די בני תורה לכבוד יו"ט. אין די ישראל'ישע פרעססע איז געווען יו"ט אין דער וואכן נעכטן. אזא שמחה! די צוויי אדווערסארן זענען שוין חברים צוריק, האט מען געזאגט, חב"ד איז שוין צוריק אויף דער מאפע, און די ליטווישע אנערקענען שוין אויך אז פון חב"ד קאן מען קריגן הילף, כאטש אז מ'האט זיך אמאל געקריגט. אבער זעהט אויס אז די שמחה איז געווען אביסל פרי-צייטיג.
הרב סורוצקין'ס בריוו
אין די כוללים זענען - כנראה - פאראן שטארקע אנהענגער פון דעם פארשטארבענעם פאניעוויזשער ראש ישיבה, און זיי איז נישט געפעלן געווען אז די געלט קומט פון ליובאוויטשער קוואלן, האבן זיי אנגעהויבן מאכן א טומל, "היתכן אז מ'נעמט געלט פון די כת ווען דער ראש ישיבה זצ"ל האט געזאגט אז מ'זאל מיט זיי קיין שייכות נישט האבן"? און מ'האט נאך אפגעדרוקט פאשקעווילן מיט די אלע "טענות" כדי אויפמערקזאם מאכן די אלע אינגעלייט, און אז די בני תורה זאלען ח"ו נישט נכשל אין טריפה'נע געלט, בפרט נאך אין דעם יו"ט פסח. סורוצקין האט זאפארט אפגעשיקט אן עקספרעס בריוול, און האט קלאר געמאכו אז אלץ וואס ער טוט איז בהמלצת און בהסכמת מרן ראש הישיבה רשכבה"ג שליט"א - מיינענדיג הרב שטיינמאן, און אז די פאשקעוועלן-שרייבער זענען עתיד ליתן את הדין אויף דער בלבול וואס זיי מאכען. היינט מיטוואך איז ארויס א ידיעה פון הרב שטיינמאן אז ס'איז קיין פראבלעם נעמען געלט פון חב"ד היות אז "זיי זענען נאר די פאסט-טרעגער, די געלט קומט נישט פון זיי." זעהט אויס אז טאמער די געלט וואלט יא געווען פון חב"ד וואלט.... וד"ל איך בין זיכער אז אין ביורא פון כולל חב"ד איז מען שטארק צופרידן פונעם ענטפער.... איין זאך האט קיינער נאך נישט געענטפערט, פארוואס פון די ציוניסטישע געלטער מעג מען נעמען, און נישט נאר מען מעג, נאר טאמער שניידט מען פון די תקציבים אביסל איז א "גזירה רעה" און איז גוזר תענית דערויף. זענען די ליובאוויטשער שוין ערגער פון די פושעים און אפיקורסים? און אזוי ווי ס'איז פאראן אזעלכע וואס פאר זיי איז הרב שטיינמאן נאך נישט דאס לעצטע ווארט, זענען זענען אנדערע געגאנגען פרעגן ביי הרב אלישיב אויך, און ער האט געזאגט אז ס'איז קיין שאלה נישט, מ'מעג זייער גערן פון די חב"ד'ניקעס, אפילו ווען זיי וואלטן געווען נישט נאר די פאסט טרעגער, נאר די באנקירער אליין....
דער פאשקעוויל
ליינט און שטוינט
חב"ד הם רק הדואר
177 comments:
i dont know what this says, but the picture says enough.
so the folowers of two am-Haratzim, rodeifei kovid, and mochlokes, are making fun of a gaon and an ohev yisroel?
disgusting.
If you are not moiche in front of the entire world then you are not chassidim and maybe you are not even begeder hoenushi. You sell your Rebbe out for Zalman Leib's narishe shmeichelle? This has nothing to do with meshichism-this has everything to do with the Rebbe's koved!Outrageous!
"ad mosai?"
the Rebbe's "kovod" is disgraced by his own people daily, a hundred thousand times as much as this silly show.
sorry to say that, but that's the case.
To azi, so if i hold that your manhig is talmid chucom shein bi daas and a frumjew hater i can expose it the way i see fit?
ad mosai?"
the Rebbe's "kovod" is disgraced by his own people daily, a hundred thousand times as much as this silly show.
sorry to say that, but that's the case.
i second evrey thig what zal wrote
I do not get why Kollel Chabad is wasting the money on those who are just spitting back in their face! It was nice to see that on חדרי חרדים most of the comments expressed similar sentiment, and were supportive of chabad.
קיים דיון מיוחד בנושא עם הגראי"ל שטיינמן, שפסק: "צדקה מותר לקחת מכל יהודי באשר הוא"
Shorter Rav Steinman; "their money is green."
Back in the day ,before Yechi ,before even "We Want Moshiach Now "they used to hang The Rebbe up in effigy from a telephone poll on Lee Ave.(since he deserves the same fate as ....).So I guess this is pretty tame.
M'zogt that it's a bochur who mimics many Rebbes (KL Samtar too), which is a cherpa fahrzich.
It's possible that the disaster was accepted in Willi, without any sort mach'o from RZL - maybe just to spite his rival brother who's sympathetic to Chabad and visits @ Palm Springs chabad etc.. ?
(Agav, if you see some of the clips from the Shishen Pirem tish, he's gantz ad d'lo yoda himself, d'lo k'roui fahr a Rebbe'n, losing his balance dancing.. While his brother is saying Divrei Torah for hours etc, not pustkeit..! As the LR zt"l did too, mit toichen always, nohr a bissel pirem'dik!)
I think what apparently happened is that a big gvir, who is not Lubavitch but gives to Lubavitch attempted to "force" a peace deal, whereby he gives Kolel Chabad the money on condition it's given to non Chabad yeshivaleit.Maybe Sorotzkin,who btw, is an incredible fundraiser, even asked for money and the gvir told him he is only getting it this way.
Explains how R'Shteinman knows it's only passed on "durech der post"
Just a theory.
The idea being that if Chabad give to Litvishe, an unheard of phenomenon, (besides a one time Gutnick donation to BMG, that had the roshe yeshiva dancing by one of his weddings)and the Litvishe have to eat crow and take, maybe people will realize that it's time for Chabad to stop bringing up 200 year old history and time for the Litvishe to realize that most Chabad mean well after all
What is a serious yungerman who thinks that Chabad is very wrong ,theologically to do?After all the non Meshichist Chabad consider the Meshichists to be terribly wrong to.
So
If he takes Chabad tainted money,Chabad gets to say that all beliefs are "for sale" and if he sticks to his theological guns, believing it's not proper to take money from unproper sources he is called a "hater".
Catch 22.
Meantime Chabad run to the proverbial p.r bank with a million$$$ proving again how "terrible" the haters are.
I think Chabad wins this round
does this serious Yungerman take ביטוח לאומי? then let him keep quiet. he's not worried about "tainted" money after all.
What's wrong with bituach leumy?Many kanoim take it.Just the same as social security.
What may backfire is that Kolel Chabad not expecting their offer to be take up, will now not have nearly enoughmoney for the thousands of families expected to sign up.
anyone knows anything about this 'universitat lisbon bepariz' mentioned by the pashkevil? sounds pretty fascinating.
doron
not B"L. kindergelt, money that you didn't work for.
Government handouts.
Kolel Chabad didn't expect their offer to be taken up? says you.
Look, let me make it clear:I"m no kolel guy and no fan of Lubavitch.In fact Lubavitch and their aid remind we of what the gemarah says about the Romans demanding reward for all the bridges that they built for the Jews, and getting answered "you did it for yourselves".
Whatever the case Lubavitch are numero uno in propaganda wars, well schooled in the Stalinist school, so there is no chance the lose this one, with victory being handed to them on a golden platter.
Let's see Chabad help where there is no p.r to be gained such as Crown Heights where people have literally nothing and they have to rely on the likes of Mrs Devorah Scheiners fund
"What's wrong with bituach leumy?"
You say the answer a few times a day:
"And please, let us not be dependent, L-rd our G-d,
neither on a gift, nor on a loan from a human being,
but rather on Your full, open,
holy and generous hand,
so that we should never feel embarrassed or ashamed."
at least they have Scheiner's fund, all communities have funds like that
except for the Yeshivishe communities, where doing chesed is a waste of time, only learning is important............
but go ahead, Doron, keep those comments coming. I can tell which school you went to-----
Before I run back to work I've got to tell you that for most of my educational life I was in Chabad so I know them well.You are probably a relatively nerw comer from B.P or Satmar based on your excellent Yidish writing skills that I could hardly make my way thru despite a couple of years in Oholei T.
I left because I couldn't stand the holier than thou attitude and the cult like experience around the late Rebbe
I hear.
I'm not a relative newcomer
make a lotta money
have a nice life, Doron
Anonymous said...
To azi, so if i hold that your manhig is talmid chucom shein bi daas and a frumjew hater i can expose it the way i see fit?
Wednesday, March 30, 2011 2:27:00 PM
--- I'll address your questions this way: manhigim who allow attacks againsst others (ie this picture) should be exposed. Rebbes and Roshei yeshiva who arent chachomim or ohavei yisroel who leave others alone shoud be left alone.
basically, dont throw mud or you'll get hit back.
There was always something a bit uncouth about Zalman Leib's face...perhap a lack of yiras shmayim?
anon
I don't want this to become a stage for the Aronim to bash their leader's brother
I once gave a gift to Reb Yechskal Roth a dear friend of mine a sefer with haskomos from many gedolim ( Satmer chabad linz klozenberg gur and Litvish ) and in the sefer in the hakdomah it also some answers from the the Lubavitcher Rebbe ZAL to the mechaber. This was 22 years ago before YECHI and that stuff...
A few years later I went to him for SHimush for Esrogim and noticed the sefer still in his aron sefarim and puled it out and to my sad eyes his talmidim on the rebbes answers were scribbled horrible things and pics and obscene things that I wish not to remember. I was young and naive and thought how can anyone do this and took the sefer and showed Reb Yechazel ( Ish Miron ) and he said he is sorry and it was probably some younger talmidim who didnt know what they were doing.
His answer still makes my hair stand... The if the younger do it then what can we ever expect from the older.... This was 20 years ago way before anything with yellow Flagers...
NF
Isn't this the same Sorotzkin?
So this is his second appearance under the tent.
Goon.
http://theantitzemach.blogspot.com/2010/03/voice-in-wilderness.html
Peoria 5,028 miles from Telshe
Hirshel - its time to stop referring to these people as Hassidim! Its an insult to those who are truly pious and striving to follow in the footsteps of the Baal Shem Tov. These are Rumanian peasants dressed in the manner of their ancestors, who may or may not have been Hassidim. But how can one honestly claim a legacy to the pious leaders of Hassidism WHEN ONE IS FIGHTING HIS OWN FLESH AND BLOOD IN SECULAR COURT. Either one of them. Long peyoth and fur on the hat doesnt entitle a person to a lofty title of Hassid or even Rebbe.
Lets speak the truth!
I think this is closely linked to your posts on farveinte oygn. With stories like this the wonder is why farveinte is in the minority and for how long it will remain that way.
H.T. said"except for the Yeshivishe communities, where doing chesed is a waste of time, only learning is important............"
hirshel, do you really believe that the yeshivishe communities do no chessed?
Doron,
For your information, Kolell Chabad is first and foremost an organization that pours millions of dollars to support ANASH in ERetZ Yisroel. Year Round they work hard supporting the poor and downtrodden, orphans and widows, the needy and desitutde. Kolel Chabad being a Israeli institution cant distribute anything to CH) It's a massive operation.
About this particular case: Kollel Chabad wasn't interested in the PR, and didn't seek out the controversy. Actually Dovy is right, a donor approached KC to also contribute to Kollelniks and then Sorozkin pursued Chabad, and they agreed (Sorozkin brought his a part of his own money to the table.
Anyway Chabad is always, but always, suspect, if they only provide for their own, they are selfish and self centered, and their Ahavas Yisroel stops at the door of Misnagdim, and if they give to others even to their sworn enemies, they are only interested in pr and it is only "Legarmih". (some Tanya lingo based of Gemarah).
H.T
"NO CHESED" Who took care of the Rubashkin fundraising if not for the yeshivishe community.Where was the groisse CHABAD
Tzig I fully understand that your upset,but you still have to use some logic.Taking money from the tziyonim does not cause anyone in the whole Israel to think for even 1 second that we are legitimizing the tzionim,if anything farkert it makes the freir hate us even more that we dont take part in their medinah yet take their money.While in this case when money is being taken from Chabad (which these bnei torah hold are oivdei ovodah zarah)it was percieved as a new era and a legitimization of chabad as you yourself said were the initial headlines!!Agav just a week ago when the KFAR chabad magizine allowed some meshichist ideas into the magizine in the PURIM spirit it caused a huge inter chabad tumel and they want the editor to resign. So maybe its not only the terrible bnei torah who have a problem with things in Chabad.
I hear from my sources a letter will be printed in the satmer papers this week a quasi apology for the purim antics....
NF
Obviously, this shpiel is disgusting and terrible chinuch. But it behooves, lubav (and thi sblog included) to think what shpiel they do a whole year making fun of dozens of respecgted rebbes and roshey yeshivot and otherwise respected people and do so deriding them and teaching their youngsters with this shpiel to take it seriously!
Tzig please be honest and tell me would they make fun of Rav Shach publicly by a Chabad farbrengin?
are you kidding me, OLDTIMER????
ANON 9;07
you can't have it both ways. Either Pinny L is a Yeshivisher ben Torah or not. When you don't like something he writes you say he doesn't represent you. And when he does something good you take the credit?!
Besides, I was being facetious, trying to knock what that guy was trying to say...
Tzig the amount of venom I heard growing up in Crown Heights against R Shach makes it hard for me to believe that you are being honest in your reply to oldtimer
HT,
WADR your take on satmar-rodney purim is missing the nekuda. It's no skin off my back that they make total a--es of themselves. It's sad & disheartening that a community that should be known for its chesed & multitude orgs has dragged itself thru the mud over and over. Taking personal upbrage at their caricature of the Rebbe is like being offended when a dog barks at you.
What should bother u and me and any decent-minded person is how their "rebbe" could sit thru a shpiel making fun of any leader in klal yisroel and not make a macho'ah. It's one thing to make light of a group. Put 5 lubavitchers drunk on stoli and singing yechi, and I would laugh as well. Hey it's purim after all. But to make fun of a phem drunk and singing yechi, i would laugh right along. But to make fun of a particular person, and esp a Rebbe? How did ZL not walk out? is he the wimp and puppet that the aroinies claim who can't think for himself? He can't stop some guy making fun of the Munkatcher, the Rebbe? R"L we have a huge community of over 5,000 families led by a strawman! This is scary and should bother all of us.
Tens of the zaloni 'biznessleit' will do their day of reckoning over a hot bowl of chicken soup graciously provided by freundlich and his fellow shluchim out in the depth of Asia.
The coarseness of this purim shpiel is superseded only by the sheer Stupidity of the zaloni camp.
How can they not know that most zaloni money comes from businessmen who eat the food and drink the cholov yisroel coffee from their purim targets shluchim ?
Just in! An apology from Satmar Willi:
http://shmais.com/chabad-news/latest/item/satmar-apologizes-to-lubavitch
to LW,
i am one of the businesses leit that eat by freundlich in china he receives from the eaters more then he supplies to them its a kretchma that belongs to a new york based franchise that also has a minyen and a mikvah,
as far as i see it, for the right price freundluch would have permitted such a shpiel for us any day of the year, that's how much he is dependent on the non lubavitch income
mekablim
זיין א כפוי טובה איז סתם נישט צו דער זאך
i late but after 40 comments i too have something to add.
satner-zalmen leib fraction, is a off shoot of many satmer splitted groups under one central umbrella org, while in contrast satmer-aron this it one whole group, you may or may not like them but this is fact.
now this person who is up there is originally from a off group called "bnei joel"' ntoday he is upthere on the table, somebody had to aprove to this, you just dont decide and stand on the table and poke fun.
in belz the purim rav is more somber, i guess this was the minhag back then in the small town as well.
see twitter "vaadharabanim".
this Maranisten Shachisten pashkevil, reminds me of all the kunterisem that the Yevatz wrote against Reb Yonasan Eibshitz, Mitoich Genusai Boi Liyeadai Shevochoi, they write that Rebbe had a very sharp brain, and good oratory skills, intellectual from good universities, fanatic about 1 of the pillars of the 13 principles of the normative Jewish faith, he actually believed that Moshiach is not just a concept of the "Seforim Hakedoshim" you can mamesh see it.
Anon 2:19AM hit it on the head: How could a Chassidic "Rebbe" sit through an entire shpiel making fun of another Rebbe? Its almost uncomprehensible - and you see him giggling under his hand. Yes, the Lubavitcher had differences of opinion with other Chassidishe Rebbeim, but NO ONE can take away his tremendous lamdus. If I was Zalman Leib I would make an effort to get to the tzion of the Lubavitcher before Yom Kippur and ask mechillah b'rabim.
Think of all those yuungerleit who apparently saw that its OK to make fun of a Gadol B'Yisroel on Purim!! Zalman Leib is going to have a lot of explaining to do upstairs - to the Baal Shem Tov, to the Rebbe to be mevazah such a Chassidus and such a Rebbe! A sad day for Klal Yisroel.
Mekablim
"for the right price freundluch would have permitted such a shpiel for us any day of the year,"
Reb Shimon, can do a vertel or 2, but that is a far strech to a official tisch of a satmar rebbe with 1500 to 2000 youngsters.
Unless u really believe that reb Zalman is not a Rebbe and it his not a tisch, a simple Moishev Lietzim.
Did anyone read the "apology" on shmais? It doesn't seem to me that they sincerely regret their actions.
Guys don't get excited on this Zali Rebbe, it is a sight that is going on in that crowd for 9 decades, their power was always nourished from Kelipas Lietzonas, ( I heard it as a bochur, from a Goan Olem and baal mekubel) It did not start in the USA with Zionism, Agudah etc... they used this Timas Halietzunas in all their turf wars in the Maramuresh/Hugarian towns and villages. Most of the Raboinim they fought were kedoshim utehorim with no affiliation to any party, they were even also anti Aguda etc..that their rebbe could not shine their shoes. His fights were not with Rav Kook or Rav Rienes But in order to crush them they used their tactic of Kelipas Halietzunas first and then physical moves. All these people were so much beyond and above their lowball tactics. This human debris with the Crown Shtimels of Rodney St. are in the category of Tinuk shenishba,
The holy Reb Yoelish himself was sitting by these tishen of rechilas and loshen hora. Whatever he did thru the year beChadrie Chadorim(as can be heard on the tapes) was Shushan Purim in the open.
Duvy
FYI
Kolel Chabad gave already for the last few years pesach packages for Yeshivaliet in Kiryat Sefer.
This year after meeting Sorotzkin it is on a much bigger scale.
I am not getting what exactly was the content of the performance in Rodney?
is it the Benddown? is a benddown funny?
Is it the good yiddish with the white russian accent funny? are they really proud with their unterlader havora which has no place in semi decent diduk?
Is it the sirtuk thats funny? they really think that roth clothings big A..s relklech are more GQ style?
Is it the constant talk of Moshiach funny? is it different then what the Yismach Moshe did? or deep inside their sinister gulash brains they believe that the yismach moshe was not genuine? thats why they laugh from a yid that really meant it?
its really scary how sensitive the lubavitches are , they must be crumbling internally, this is what happens if someone sticks a needle into an air balloon
such a pareve apology http://shmais.com/chabad-news/latest/item/satmar-apologizes-to-lubavitch
Burich To Hirshel,
It is painful to read and watch how otherwise real frum yidden enjoy a laugh from a reputable kehila and their distinguished leader z”l, admitting I was born and raised in satmar all my life and I am aware of all ‘hilchas kanois’ still I was shocked to see and read this unfortunate episode, I was present in the year 1967 by the shishan purim tish of the late rebbe RJT z”l when a chasidishe comedian from yerushliam a real ehlicher yid (AMS) was doing his ‘shtik’ by the rebbes tish and he touched ‘very vaguely’ on the subject of ‘satmar vs lubavitch’ most people didn’t understand the point he made in ‘disguise’ that touched the kovad of the lubavitcher rebbe z”l but, the rebbe z”l did notice, he whispered into the gabbes ear (RYA) which in turn wrote a little note send it up on the table to (AMS) - the grammer to end immediate his ‘shtik’ - which he did and left the tish! Yes, “I witnessed all this myself” (despite that the rebbe z”l had at the time serious grivences against lubavitch that touched his health!)
Admitting all that, I must add the following since RJT z”l stepped on the American soil 60+ years ago and sowed real yidishkeit in America he was persecuted and degraded verbally and in writings like no other person in ‘jewish history’ literally starting from chaim lieberman to (joel cohen) to not so vaguely sicus (on tapes) from the lubavitcher rebbe pointed on him z”l !!! Almost 40 years he past away and this still goes on like never before yes, so called rabbaim in public and anonymous writers on-line everywhere (including your site) all this despite he was arguably single handily the person who made America a real yiddishe country! Is anyone Protesting!
It is worth noticing that “schulezohn” in the algaminer journal which is under lubavitch auspices wrote the most disgusting of articles against a rav and godel, RZL the current satmar ravs FATHER! (That far out ‘cuzpahs’ the current purim fiasco! In front of RZL!) As the saying goes “if you cant take the heat get out of the kitchen” did anyone protested !
Hershel you’re wrong satmar has nothing against lubavitcher Chasidim personally let alone accusing them as you do of thinking of ‘lubavitcher chasidim as puerto ricos, rc”l ‘ there was a time before lubavitch became pro-israel! (Zionists) - yes there was such a time and I am not even referring to RYY or the R’ESABs time but here in America - and the secular world didn’t like them to much.. and satmar rav z”l supported monetarily ‘yeshivas torah temima’ in CH! Satmar rupture with lubavitch started when the president of “Israel” shazer came to America and the lubavitcher rebbe z”l hugged and kissed him! Saying “kol h’aolah l’gdilla muclin loh kol avanosov” ! and from there lubavitch extrapolated and became the most vocally supporters of the NO PEACE for land movement despite jewish blood that’s flawing on the streets of jerushalem with the support of lubavitch! and Against the shita of the previous real lubavitcher manhiga yisrael! ‘shame on you to’ !
Pinched
what would you consider a king size elbon hatorah, that non sensitive satmarers would not ignore?
I don't know if you have a Godal that you cling too, maybe you are some jew that enjoys living a hefker life, but if you are affiliated to some godal, then I would realy like to know how it works by you.
It is also important to know, that Torah does not take light, Bizoyen of a laymen Jew and for sure not a Godal Beyisroel.
That was not an apology. That was the Zalis officially distancing themselves after being caught with their fingers in the cookie jar, so to speak. in that letter they basically wash their hands of the whole ordeal and say "We did not shed this blood!"
Burich
I don"t know from which Satmar you are talking, if we are talking about the Satmar that originated from Kerola,Urshiva. Then I saw different spectacles, I was there myself by Shushan Purim tischen when 90% of the Tish was rechiles and halbonas punim in front of the Kodeh haKodoshim RJT z"l The balance 10% was self aggrandizement badchunas, how lucky we are that Moshiach will come only to us, with the nigun hayedua of the badchen of Taylor street
Burich
"It is worth noticing that “schulezohn” in the algaminer journal which is under lubavitch auspices"
your facts are really off, or you are that old, bordering on senility, or too young to know, that Shaulzohn never wrote in the algemiener journal
Thursday, March 31, 2011 12:55:00 PM writes:
“The holy Reb Yoelish himself was sitting by these tishen of rechilas and loshen hora. Whatever he did thru the year beChadrie Chadorim(as can be heard on the tapes) was Shushan Purim in the open”
This one for you anon: after all it’s still adar, the gemora say ‘da ma s’htushiv.. but it doesn’t say what to answer him why not ?, someone told me because what you will have to tell him is KISH MIR IN TUCHES!
Anon
"he was persecuted and degraded verbally and in writings like no other person in ‘jewish history’ literally starting from chaim lieberman to (joel cohen)"
first lets get the facts straight , Reb Yoel Kahan never wrote a word against the Satmar Ruv in his lifetime, he just wrote a little kuntres after his petira discussing the satmar hate curriculum in a very delicate fashion, I believe that he has the write and obligation to defend his side of the story, especially when the other side hurls at you accusations of Kefira.
"he has the write and obligation to defend his side of the story"
So when th 'other side' declares that their rebbe is 'moshiach' can they do the same like make satire of it like the rest of the jewish world is making! (on on purim!) isnt staire and purim go hand by hand
Anon
"someone told me because what you will have to tell him is KISH MIR IN TUCHES!"
It is a very genuine satmar way of answering, and it is in line with the themes of the Shushan purim tishen by Zali or RJT.This kind of Tuchis logic is the way of operation for decades, just keep it up, the lower the Generation the more successful you guys will be. But don't ask(the way RJT used to cry) how come no Godal answered the great genius of a sefer, Veyoel Moshe.
it is simple, no Godal after WW11 would play on the same level of ..... logic.
"Shaulzohn never wrote in the algemiener journal"
Thanks for reminding me that so let's get this straight, Shaulzohn was a lubavitcher right? and the algeminer was lubavitch to, writing hate and recilos for years on satmar! now we have 2 wrongs seperate 1) algameiner 2) Shaulzohn, does 2 wrongs make one right ?
I am talking now about Reb Yoels kuntres,I will discuss the moshiachist beliefs when I will discuss satmars denying the holocaust in Iran
Funny how Lubavitchers get all insulted with a little purim fun, when Lubavitch openly backed the rosho and gas ruach Chaim Shoulson who wrote the most despicable-beneath-the-belt nastiness on so many rabbunim.Years ago when Shoulsons "headquarters" in BP was finally busted HE RAN TO THE SAFETY OF CROWN HEIGHTS , there he knew he was safe.
Oh, yes, this was before gimmel tammuz.
Lubavitchers dish out but don't know how to take.
When there were "discussions" (hirshel was censoring everything, so "discussions" is not very accurate )on this l'il blog about Shanghai and you know...money,etc, when someone "reminded" the blogmeister about how much money, "miyeh and ploog" were put in to save inanimate objects while bombs flew in Warsaw, he "flew into a rage" and censored"
Shayfaleh, "tol koireh mbein eynecho"
Additionally, do Shimon Freundlich from Beijing a toiveh and don't drag him in,k?He is a good friend and knows well how much support financial and otherwise he gets from Satmar and their crew.
Keep to your day job, where hopefully you know what you are doing.
"the way RJT used to cry, how come no Godal answered the great genius of a sefer, Veyoel Moshe"
You quote by omission because he answered his question(above) pointing on a medrash rabbah parshas korach: why we see the polemics of moshe rabbanei against korach but we don’t see what korach answered to moshe rabbinei? And the medrash answers: korach was a ‘pikuch’ smart and he knew that if he will answer to “moshe” than moshe will answer back and he will have to admit that moshe was correct, so he decided not to answer so people (like you) will think that he really had something to say he ‘just didn’t say’ it!!!
But I’ll tell you you’re a ‘melaglag al divrei chacucem’ and once more for the last time
KISH MIR IN TUCHES!
Shaulzohn is from Lubavich Yerushalmi stem,
I dont know if he learned in toras emes or other chabad institution.
he did write against satmar and against alot of factions in lubavich,it depends who paid him. I think that for years he worked for Moshe Friedman besmirching the aroni faction. He his a certified loose canon and lowlife,
now where does Lubavich come in the picture?
You can argue with your .... logic that Sender Deutsch/Lazer Epstien/Echod Harabonim one of the three Chozrim of RJT torah and VP of 82 Lee avenue, in his editorials and Fin Doo un Dort, is on the same level.
Volvy
"Years ago when Shoulsons "headquarters" in BP was finally busted HE RAN TO THE SAFETY OF CROWN HEIGHTS , there he knew he was safe."
Were you involved in the Shaulzohn bust? wow a big shmasser,
you are sure he was hidden in CH?
Kish Mech
I did not check the Midrash, but I saw in a offical Satmar Benai Berak pamphlet that he asked Reb Yakov Kamenetzky, how come nobody answers me. I guess RJT did not see the midrash yet, maybe there was no torah shliemah printed yet on that sedrah, or these Satmar BB people are in Begatz haTzioni, so we can"t trust them.
Anon
"‘melaglag al divrei chacucem’ and once more for the last time "
I love when you people start using these Mamorai chazal, in the Satmar from Urshavi they used to laugh when yiden argued with them using these Mamorie chazal,only the "Linke" use it
belz rav moshiach will go to his shul, which was a very tiny small village, but yet he said moshiach will end up in ukraine. lubabitch claims moshiach will come to 770.
satmer zalmen leib makes sure moshiach won't end up any where.
let's not get carried away RZLT has the sefer torah of sanz rav.
see twitter: vaadharabanim
While its true that satmere travelers are generous givers. I doubt that freundlich and his fellow shluchim would sell out their ideology. They don't sacrifice their life to live on shlichus only to make a shpiel on their hero rebbe for a few bucks.
Its also true that even though satmere yiddelech eat by freundlich and laugh at him behind his back he will still give u food and a minyan just like he takes care of all unmannerly jews
Volvy
you are 100% correct that Shaulzohn is a Roshe and wrote below the belt, menuval
But what do you think should be the response to the weekly anti Lubavicher Rebbe articles of Borech Yide Klien (Yiddish) and Moshe Lieb Deutsch in der yid?
Klien went on for 2 years, M L Deutsch went on for much more years. Its amusing the way Deutsch is using his talent against some satmarer rebbe in KJ, that dares to bake matzohs from arizona flour. Just for that sin Moshe Lieb spent barrels of ink to ridicule the aroni rebbe into a Shloma Goren(I hope I used the worst title in sSatmar terminology)
LW you have facts reversed,
freundluch an others are running a kretshma for parnasa,like the moshkas in old time by the Puritsim
The ideology is part of the kretchma marketing mandated by the franchise HQ in NY.
To be mafkir the chinuch of his kids is called Mavir Zaroi LaMolech the opposite of Mesires Nefesh
typical בהמה גסה this "mavir zaroi" is
as if he just landed from Drogemiresht
Doron
"what the gemarah says about the Romans demanding reward for all the bridges that they built for the Jews, and getting answered "you did it for yourselves".
do you say rhis for evryone that u dilike?
it is interesting that the Gemorah uses it for Goyim Reshoim, and you apply it for Bnie Kiel Chai,
I envy your olam habou.
Mavir Zaroi
"To be mafkir the chinuch of his kids is called Mavir Zaroi LaMolech the opposite of Mesires Nefesh"
I thought that being in Ch institutions is already Avoida Zora, so how is the shaliach worse off in Bejing? please clarify your vile statement, I am perplexed.
Hirshel! I have not just landed from Drogemiresht,
I travel a lot and also go to CH a lot and i see results of kiruv on lubavitcher families, hadn't they operated this massive PR machine portraying them as if they are so frum no one would have eaten by them not even a behiema gasa as you call me, to express your love for the truth
Mavir Zaroi
"freundluch an others are running a kretshma for parnasa,like the moshkas in old time by the Puritsim"
is this your term for all institutions of organized religion,or chabad is outstanding?
Mavir Zaroi
"hadn't they operated this massive PR machine portraying them as if they are so frum"
whats the name of the PR firm that builds for Chabad a frum image?
Who pays for them? Krinsky? shemtov?Shvie ? Ozdova?
I know some organization that need there help.
Anon asks:I thought that being in Ch institutions is already Avoida Zora, so how is the shaliach worse off in Bejing?
Current lubavitch Chinuch Iz Avoda Zuras, Plus to be Maveir Zaroi LaMoilech, as time passes by the are getting more fargoished that the Origenal Avoida Zura becomes irrelevant to them.
funny how VOLVY needs to mix in saving books in warsaw to make his point about a (Shushan) Purim paly in Rodney....
Anon Asks:
is this your term for all institutions of organized religion,or chabad is outstanding?
NO! chabad is outstanding in being mafkir the chinich of their kids, the sphere of a Jewish home and the sanctuary of their house of worship to promote the an ideology that is false and self destructive
Mavir zaroi. Mekablim.
Pray pls tell me how all this justifies bashing a Rebbe 15 years after petiraso in front of all of klal yisrael (there is an internet you know)
Is this the sanctuary you are raising your children in? To build urselves on the tzaros of others? That isn't called being mafkir zaroi?
Why are u riding on ur high horse treading on the blood of thousands of yidden.
Do u teach ur children to see anyone different then them as 'franchised pritzim trying to make a buck'
And the Monroe Mishkav Zocher factory,VADAL (called Yeshiva Rabeinu Yoel) is not maavir Zaroi Lemoilech? And the "Sahrfa Oigen" and lokeren" that occurs in KJ, how did THAT happen? And the complete break down of many a family in holy Square town, how did this happen?
Mekablim Zaroi.
After taking a poll we are proud to announce that all Tzigelech here agree u are correct! all shluchim are oivdei avoda zara, are being mafkir zarom, and are only running a Burger King nationwide franchise. They are total failures and are nebech sunk into americaner depravity.
We therefore would like the Zalonim camp to pleeeeease teach us the way. how can we guarantee like by zalonim that our children remain true ehrliche yidden?
Like WOW! How did you guys manage to keep a ZERO drop out rate. With role model totally honest business ppl.
Its unreal ur success.
Its a pity we missed the shpiel. Maybe that wouldve saved us.
Next time pls invite us.
no mention can be made of shalom ber sorotzkin without mentioning the video of him being mevazeh gedolei hador that you posted about a while ago...
The point was made
Fed Up in Peoria said...
Isn't this the same Sorotzkin?
So this is his second appearance under the tent.
Goon.
http://theantitzemach.blogspot.com/2010/03/voice-in-wilderness.html
Peoria 5,028 miles from Telshe
Wednesday, March 30, 2011 6:01:00 PM
If one earnestly wants to understand
Satmar Rodney its not hard.
L Chasidim must know on some
level that (I'm not condoning-just msngr)
the LR status as godol byisroel
was rejected by large segments of frum Jewry.
R YY of Skver for example spoke in a
derogitory fashion ( I won't repeat mipney kvod shneyhem)
others in the Chassidic Camp as well.
This was not Machlokes it was delegitimization.
One element that fuels the Satmar R A & R ZL connection to Lakewood is this
rejection of all things Zionist(on paper at least) and Chabad.
Nothing to debate its a fact. Call it "unz kegen zei" syndrome.
Once you view the LR as a curious Jewish historical figure not a godol(again just analizing ) then the detrimental effect to the chinuch is not as bad. But when they made fun of Tzelemer Rov or R Avrum lietner reckognized in Satmar as gdolim that's where the chinuch is murdered. How can you take a Talmid Chochim ( that you "respect") and poke fun of him in public ???
The real culprit was the sigeter. He was a loose cannon when it came to kvod acherim and his short fuse didn't help.
But even when the artificial insemination war was being waged the SR RY tried to dissuade him rabonim from debating R Moshe.
He quiped "vus tit ets tommer redt er mit enk in lernen...". In other words you won't see (yet) a R Moshe skit because he was ( in their eyes wrong but still) a legitimte rov even Goan(to quote R Yizchok lebovich of woodridge). The LR is viewed more like the late Abe Hirshfeld( of parking garage fame) or Rabbi Goren. Remember Rav Kook is pretty much the same story. I know the Brisker Rav didn't consider shaming RK to be mvaze talmid chochom since a chelek nikar of klal yisrol rejected him.
This is a bitter pill for Chabad to swallow since this is a setback for the Melech status.
The rejection of SR RY as a godol by some is just reactionary as any candid person will admit.
I think people need to chill out. From what I've read this comedian dressed up in a frak, conducted the crowds like the Rebbe, spoke Yiddish in a Russian accent and talked about Moshiach. And apparently did rather a good job at it. Big deal. It was Purim after all.
Let's face it it's only funny because the Lubavitcher keep the Rebbe alive and have almost turned him into a god. I happened to have an argument with an intelligent Lubavitcher bochur who came round collecting on Purim and I asked him for a yes/no answer to the question 'Has the Rebbe died?' He wouldn't reply. So who's the one making letzones?
This is not in defense of Satmar. But you want to know what letzones is? Listen to Shtauber's gramn against the Belzer on Purim 1981 or 1982 in front of the Beirach Moshe about Agripath der bern treiber .
Anon
"R YY of Skver for example spoke in a
derogitory fashion ( I won't repeat mipney kvod shneyhem)"
#1 did he say on him worse then he said on Reb Nachman of Breslov.He hated chabad, which nobody in the twersky kept that so called Kalisker hate.The Machnivker that was in russia with real chasidim till the sixteys, held that the Rebbe is Tzadik Hador, and his nephew Machnuvker belzer of today even learns the Rebbes Torah.
#2 in later life he changed his mind,as he start realizing his work for yidishkiet, As I heard from a close family of mine who was a very big chosid, and I heard the same in the name of the BP Rachhmistrivker, thru a friend of mine that heard it from him.
#3 It does not matter much the views Skverer Rebbe z"l held on a yid as the Lubavicher Rebbe,as Chazal say Gavra Agavra Korumis, the LR was a bigger Goan,and ovad hashem then him, he even put salt on his food.
I like this all artscroll backoffice history creating,building the image of gedolim,
The LR image is no Rav Kook, I know that it his wishful thinking.There is some institutionalized hate machine that invested alot in smearing his name,established by a real hatemonger Veloi Olsoi Beyodem. I never tought that after his demise they will be despised by their own, they are using their hate tools on their own. The LR name is very holy by all chasidishe yiden.Slowly, it will change in klal yisroel.
Your analogy to Abe Hirshfeld is gevaldig,Can I use that kind of analogy to Reb Aron that he was like Paterson our former governor of NY. How do this terms work, it can only used on gedolim u decided to hate,
or by Reb Aron you would say Hizhari Begachloson.
Anon
"One element that fuels the Satmar R A & R ZL connection to Lakewood is this
rejection of all things Zionist(on paper at least) and Chabad."
When the Aroni Rebbe met the OU board, he also checked with a polygraph if the OU Rabonim are Zionist free? Did Zali Rebbe check drummer and Reb Yossel Segal if they are Chabad free, did he come with the polygraph machine?His entourage bragged that they are fans of Chassidut Mevueres, are they all chabad free.
You are too chabad obsessive, like Mel Gibson the nazi jew hater, when he got pulled over by a white cop on the LA freeway, he started cursing the Jew.
These 2 Kedoshim the Titelbaum brothers, have no ideology vein in their skull, they just need recognition by large segments of people outside of Satmar. To be able to claim for their flock, I am the legit Satmar Rebbe, may it be Lakewood,OU, Chabad
but you proffesional help. maybe AJ twersky, can be of help, maybe we should establish a fund,on the web, since these shrinks ain't cheap.
Mavir Zaroi
"Current lubavitch Chinuch Iz Avoda Zuras,"
where is the Avoda Zora in the CH chinuch?
do they say that Rebbes soul is a Chelek Alokai Mimaal, as every jewish soul is?
are you ready to debate that this is kefira?
Real Self-knowledge and self-awareness:
1. selected breslever mashpiim.
2. selected generic hassidic younger mashpiim[R Morgenstern,etc.}
3.Maybe disciples of R. Ashlag
4.Some Rav Kook disciples
5. Maybe a litvisher musser mashgiach somewhere
The stuff that passes for Hassides in general is nothing more than protecting your "turf" and passing on the minhagim of yesteryear and endless hours of time spent on "conversations" like the one taking place here and on hadrei haredim.Please add to this list if you can.Of the hundreds of Hassidishe hoifn,there are no more than a handful that have something meaningful to say to someone living on this planet in 5771?
Chasidic
you are correct, that the nepotisim family based chassidus is death , they are very good to make the yellow buses run in time,very good CEO of institutions, with no spirituality.But borech hashem that there are alot of new blood in the Mayan Hachasidus. The organized Hoifen are working very hard to crush it, thru condemnation(Sanz Netanya Rebbe) or preaching DNA allegiance (pinchus friedman of belz)
Ende Tzadik
"I happened to have an argument with an intelligent Lubavitcher bochur who came round collecting on Purim"
I think that collecting by doors is not the Lubavicher think on purim, they are usualy liening Megila in hospitals and nursing homes. "
He wouldn't reply. So who's the one making letzones?
"mi Shoimer Mies Rebbe Yidkar Becherev, is it legitimate to make fun of Rebini Hakodesh mesader hamishna( I specify which Rebieni Hakodesh, because the Satmars stole that name)
Mavir Zaroi
"To be mafkir the chinuch of his kids is called Mavir Zaroi LaMolech the opposite of Mesires Nefesh"
how is it the opposite? maybe it is wrong in your fargrebte Kop, but not the opposite.
I saw in a teshuva sefer of 1 of the biggest poskim from Hungarian stem, writing in 3 teshuvhas, for Shoalim with large families ,that they have to stay in their positions eventough they will not daven with Minyan, for the sake of Matzil Nefesh Achas M'yisroel.He writes it is prohibited to leave to a holier place. The same he writes for a Mashgiach of cholov yisroel, that he is obligated to mafkir himself even beruchniyas to get for yiden Cholov Yisroel.I am not here to promote Chabad houses and weigh it against other kiruv organizations, but Kosher Milk,Kosher Meat they do have for the Moderene, Not for the KJ yiden, they are good in bringing even the Hiemishe Kokosh cake.So according to some opinions they have to be there.
The LR and real Gedolie Yisroel , don"t need the appraisal of the Matzav Klal Yisraeli from a midget as yours truly.
"And the Monroe Mishkav Zocher factory"
and from where do you take your info please? is it that it takes 'one' to to no one ?
I am not that anon,
but I assume that BML left him the KJ address book.
who is the hair stylist for S D Sorotzkin?
Anon
"This was not Machlokes it was delegitimization."
is their a siman in Shulchan Orech, for delegitimization? I have a big list, for illegitimate status, My Shviger, my ex partner.
Is that status, Torah? or Daas Torah? which is above and beyond Torah, never touched Torah, and never will touch Torah.
"This was not Machlokes it was delegitimization."
I wonder what was the SR credtinals and on what halacha basis he said this if he said it, also what would be his opinion on the current SR meeting up with hillary ?
Has Zalman Leib Teitelbaum produced any seforim or works of Torah? Has his brother?
Also, what is up with the Belzers son? I have rarely seen such a fargrebter panim in my life. They really need to learn about portion control over there v'dal.
Anon
"what halacha basis he said this if he said it,"
he was a rebbe, did not consult halacha.
The Skverer family has a way of speaking sweet nothings to nonfamily whereas their "baholtene mesoiros" are tranmitted to their children.
If you think Chabad kept the machlokes with the Minagdim alive you've seen nothing till you have a Twersky take you into his confidence. They have a rap sheet on all the rebbes rabonim both chasidic and misnagdish going back 250 years.
R YY's issue re the LR had to do with his secular education not kalisk.
If you think the LR was accepted by the chassidic world at large that's wishful thinking.
For example In 1988 the then" yankel m'rebms"(present gerer rebbe )offered up the following pear of wisdom;
" der Lubavicher hotzich fardimyent in Moshiach in Shach hotzich fardimyent in eym"
R Mottele of Monsey went wild when he saw the moshiach billboards on rte 17.
But many did not say in public that which was said in private.
The Klausenberger rebbe ZL spoke very differently in private re the LR.
But they made nice in public. Strikover rebbe bobover rebbe R naftulche the list goes on
Tipesh
I am no aroni, but he said alot of torah
I don't know how much you can learn of a pashkevil,
but the Michutz Lemachne started from the FR,
Oi Vey Iz Mir,
Reb Motel Ashkenazi, and Reb Chaim Shulem Deutsch have no idea that they are not in the Machne,
Oi Vey Iz Mir,
So many anonymouses, so much stupidity.
Shoulson for page 6
Anon 12.41
Are you writing memoirs of all you know and heard milifnie velifnim of all Rebbes?
I dont realy care what any rebbe spoke in his cuff,
Ein Kietz Ledivrie Tuach.
I heard too much, 1 day I heard that Reb arele Belzer laughed from the Bies Yisroel and he laughed from the Kotzker Rebbe.
Anon
"For example In 1988 the then" yankel m'rebms"(present gerer rebbe )offered up the following pear of wisdom;
" der Lubavicher hotzich fardimyent in Moshiach in Shach hotzich fardimyent in eym"
it is a badge of honor for the LR, the big divide is, that by Yankel it was a Dimyon and the secular educated Rebbe believed in Achdus hashem and Moshiach as a fact(Kipshutoi).
Anon
"R Mottele of Monsey went wild when he saw the moshiach billboards on rte 17."
did they give him Tranquilizers since, or he is still wild, it is probably the first time he heard about Moshiach.
Anon
"The Klausenberger rebbe ZL spoke very differently in private re the LR."
The Sanzer Rebbe of Netanye, big chosid of his Father, mentions the Lubavicher Rebbe in his torah.
I saw it twice, 1 was in a Shama Kolinie Derasha.
Maybe your ears are sharper then his.
ANONY 12:41
Did you ever hear in klore dibburim why the skverer dislike Breslev? Tikun Haklali or competition for hassidim?
Anon
"R YY's issue re the LR had to do with his secular education not kalisk."
noting regarding RYY of square belief on LR nesius, it is irrelevant. For me it only matters what Reb Shmuel Levitin or Rav Simpson held about the Rebbe,Kevodoi she htzadik of Skver Bimkoimoi Munach, they were much bigger baal hasoge then the RYY of square.
But I need to know what was the criteria that he decided to make his son Duvedel for Rebbe vs, his SIL Reb Itzikel,
Was Duvedel more Shomer Habris then the SIL? If Rebisteve is such a serious thing then How did he crown his son vs. the SIL the Real Yerai shomaim, Lamdan and Chernobler Einikel? How does it work,
It is not only my question, I heard the Reb Mottel Zilber ask this question, they wanted to throw out his kids from the BP Cheder.
Hirshel,
Stop allowing anonymous comments with no import besides backstabbing loshen hures!
Please1
Yes, these Chabad Houses are just kretschmas. Chabad are net takers. They take from Satmar in China, secular Jews everywhere else, rarely keep transparent records etc etc etc. In some places the shluchim live as well or better than their supporters.
I finally had the sense to quit Judaism altogether because I saw the scam. It's not just Chabad. Chabad just makes people feel that their often unearned money is being somehow sanctified.
The real Jewish achievers like Sergey Brin, Steve Ballmer, Michael Dell and Larry Ellison don't give one red cent to Chabad or Aish or Pinto or anyone else of the frum ilk. The top Wall Street guys don't really support the frimmer either.
The frimmer kiruv and chessed businesses (that operate at about 30% for salaries, 50% for expenses, 20% for activities) get their money from the wheeler-dealers who don't create value. The typical secular Jew who supports Chabad is the one who made his money by selling the same schmatte or building or factory 10 times to 20 shell companies.
Satmar just does all the geneyve themselves instead of getting the money from frei ganovim. You have a few feiner Litvaks in the nursing home abuse business, or Ponzi real estate deals etc etc who keep their drechse moisdos going.
In 20-50 years the walls of the batei medrash and shuls will come tumbling down like the walls of the ghetto did in days of old.
I don't need to wait 20-50 years.
There is no כבוד התורה in what these Satmerer did. I find it distasteful in the extreme. They effectively gave a new pshat on what it means to be מתיהדים
Chinuch that can allow such a purim shpiel is sick chinuch that needs a lobotomy.
Isaac Balbin
Its important to remember the genesis "the first shot fired" of the Lubavich /Satmar hostilities.
When the SR came out with ' nistakcho toras habalshem' the LR called him Der Sheyte Hador and added S'iz sheyn givezn ba Yeychnon az givezn iz er Keyngodl un a Dzduki(Tzduki -a little Vais Rusland lingo there) givorn ba der achtzik
To which the SR replied with one of his uniquely humorous and brilliant one-liners ;' dus yo -obber zahn a tsdoyki in vern koyn gudl ba der achtzik hot men nochnisht gehat gezeyn...'
I want to mention
my respect for Hirshl for including
my comment of 4/3 1:28 AM.
It shows class. He'd
have had every right to exclude it.
I'm impressed!
First and foremost, this is a sickening and a disgraceful act, to mock a deceased individual never mind one of the main architect's of today's Judaism. Satmar would never have dared to mock their old arc enemy The Klausenbuger Ztl. Because he was still "fin inzere" and wore "strokers and a gblimte beksehe". The Lubavitcher Ztl however, wore a bend down hat and as much as S d Volper's effort to prove otherwise, he was always considered an outsider at the HHungarian brotherhood, so his blood is free for them to do as they wish.
But the facts on the ground that you can not fool the Masses and while the majority of the conventional leadership is involved in court struggles and breeding shallowness. Yes, some of them could get an Oscar for acting and are brilliant fundraisers. For the yungerman who is yearning for something more deep and meaning than Shtremel bmokem Tefilen and Lokshen Kugel min Hatorah, this is simply not enough, so they pry and search for something to redeem them from all this emotional abuse to believe in the unbelievable and search and search and if they are lucky they find Chabad or Breslov. These are the real deal. Skver they will leave for the guy's from Fivetowns.
non
"When the SR came out with ' nistakcho toras habalshem' the LR called him Der Sheyte Hador and added S'iz sheyn givezn ba Yeychnon az givezn iz er Keyngodl un a Dzduki(Tzduki"
are you sure the Lubavicher Rebbe used all these words?
Is it printed in Chabad kunterisiem?
Ein Kietz Ledivrie Ruach
Issac Balbib
It is going on for 80 to 90 years,
just ignore them.
Non 5:42.
dvrei ruach ? Don't think so.
I don't know your Lubavich credentials but in
Chabad it's well known that the LR was very vocal during
Nishtakcho episode.
It bothered him a lot. He actually
had a call placed by Mazkir Chodokov A"H
to SR. The SR was very non combative. And avoided a confrontation
He had YA convey the msg that
Every manhig yisroel must be madrich
his tzibur as he sees fit. Hoping the LR
let it go at that
The LR made other remarks at the time
re the SR that
are less benign than those posted above.
I really just wanted to share the SR delicious retort
With his trademark
"toch kdei dibbur" wit that he was
so famous for.
Just another sample of SR one-liners
R Y Hutner on a visit to SR commented on
the beauty/decor etc of the SR's home "Mikdash Melech!" To which the
SR instantly responded"Ir meliche!.."
Anon
I know that in Satmar their is alot of lies and rumors circulating regarding this matter, but as long I dont see it on any chabad source, may it be a Diary, or Hisvaduth, it is muchzak Sheker.
It is amazing how a Kehila as Satmar that has its faith build that all sipurim are lies, is the biggest rumor and lie factory. starting from Gelbmans 15 volume Moshian, to the 3 weeklies that produce on a weekly basis Lies upon Lies.
Non 9:48
Please consider the following.
You are earnest
You were burnt by the corruption
you saw in Satmar internally.
I happen to be more familliar intimately
than most regarding the various
kraizen that make up the Yahdus Hachradis.
I'd like you to know EVERY Mokom has deep hypocricy and on the positive side
great maalos. An outsider always thinks the grass is greener.
Does Gelbman fabricate ? Very possible.
Is the basic premise of his book fiction? Of course not.
Now you say you'd belive a Chabad publication.
Any serious person in Chabad (like HaRav Vichnin Z"L)
would tell you there's a lot of "baking" going on as well.
Go back to your shoresh and struggle to
improve it from inside. You owe it to your
ancestors. Your not that foolish to think
Moshiach can't come as long as we all
didn't join Chabad. As above the Chashuvim in
Lubavich are also grounded in reality
Btw
I heard from Rav Shach's mouth in 1990
( in the presence of his chavrusa R' Tzimmerman, the then bochur Ausband
and an einikle-think it was Asher Bergman) a day after the Stoliner Rebbe visited him.
" Mir meinen as mir zaynen eppes
Kuleiy mayle, obber az s'kumt tzu mir arayn a
"Ch'sidisn" yid iz do ginug vos tzu
zehn fun di mayless zayne".
There is negative all over and
positive as well. Satmat had a Rebbe that other
Gedolie Yisrol viewed with AWE. R A kotler
Said der (vilner)go'en voltzach mit em gitzatzket!
The otzar is in your own backyard.
Anon
"Does Gelbman fabricate ? Very possible."
I heard it from a Rav that heard it from the Bierach Moshe,that he is Muchzah Shakran plus I know it, from a few stories that I detected the extreme lies.
Anon
"Is the basic premise of his book fiction? Of course not."
Correct,the Basic premise is true, that their existed a Rebbe with a name Reb Yoel Titelbaum, more then that I am skeptic
Anon
"Now you say you'd belive a Chabad publication.
Any serious person in Chabad (like HaRav Vichnin Z"L)
would tell you there's a lot of "baking" going on as well."
Rav Vichnin would never say that on the sefer Hisvaduth or personal diaries, that is baked,
Maybe he said it on the Maseh Bichlech
Anon
"R A kotler
Said der (vilner)go'en voltzach mit em gitzatzket!"
Another unbased lie
“I don't need to wait 20-50 years.”
Saturday, April 02, 2011 8:56:00 AM
With ‘jews’ like you who needs goyim, go to the catolics/vatican or the muslims!
Very nice ehrliche non genavim there! Have Fun.
"Another unbased lie"
How can you possibly know that he didn't say it are you lieing ?
On second thought this photo of the rebbe he looks ‘real’ sourronded by real ‘ehrliche chasidishe temima lief yiden’ their purity and innocents glowing from their faces wow! I’m not used to see the rebbe in this light!
The whole concept of Jew, or Catholic, or Muslim no longer means a thing to me. I am post tribal and post religious. These are man made definitions based on artificial, man made ideologies.
I have no truck with the Jew, the Muslim or the Christian. All are equally deluded. Only the Muslim fanatic is dangerous. The rest are just living in a fantasy world and using outmoded definitions.
I woke up. So will your children or grandchildren, assuming that you don't.
There will be a new scientific age of reason. Facebook overthrew Benali and Mubarak. It will overthrow the rabbis, the Pope, preachers and imams as well.
anon
"‘ehrliche chasidishe temima lief yiden’ their purity and innocents glowing from their faces wow!"
where is the innocence exactly?
the Kroin Shtiemel vs. the bendown
You Ferd.
Anon
"How can you possibly know that he didn't say it are you lieing ?"
How do I know that you are not Bill Gates?
Perhaps I'm a bit slow today but I can't see the wit in 'ir melicho'. Was he gloating that Williamsburg is a royal city? In which case it is more delusion than wit.
Since this thread has touched upon both the previous skverer and Reb Yoilish it's worth mentioning that when the previous Skverer, who at the time or previouly had been known as the Kolorasher, arrived on US shores RY quipped 'ma kol ra'ash?'
Though RY was undoubtedly a wit, if the acerbity, speed and humor of a repartee are the new measures of gadluth then Dr Johnson, Oscar Wilde and Groucho Marx would all merit merit front page photos in Kol Ho'oilom Kilo and the title rishonim k'malochim.
Ende
I assume he meant the Rebbetzin...
Yes, I was indeed slow. He meant her kingdom in Yiddish, (as if er volt zich derfin opgebrit).
Ende if you take a deep breath you'll realize that had R H made that comment in another hoif the
response would have been different.
Humor would not have been used.
And most importantly the furnishings would be
defended as not being over the top since everything re
the (fill in the blank with your favorite rebbe)er
Rebbe is perfect. Btw intimating that the SR was an ish megusham is a new
one for me.
R Y Hutner when describing the
unique/high regard in which he held
the SR said the following;
Noach was struck when he didn't bring the
lion's food promptly.
He asked why was he ne'nash
Was this such a chet?
R H said" vaistois der letzter leyb
iz eppes gor anander zach!"
Ende Tzadik
maybe he did not like, and he did it for sholem bayis, but have a understanding when a other rebbe also did something for sholem bayis.
Something we can learn from the SR.
His midah of being mfayes those whom
he might have slighted.
He was known to appologize to children.
The famous incident with the Litvak from eretz yisrol by the Seder. Was busy whether the kzaisim the Rebbe gave were the shiur.
When it came to Shulchon orech the rebbe asked him
re each maachol "tzi siz der shir.." The man
responded Rebbe vifl iz der shir fun tshepinen?"
After Yom tov the SR comitted to financing the marriages
of this man's children. I ate by him as a bochur on Shabbos.
Anyone who was
in bais Shraga in Monsey can tell
you of the 2 shluchim sent before Roshashone to R Morche Shwab ZL
Yearly ( even till 1978) to ask Mechila for
a pgiya in RMS kovod . RMS the tzadik that he was never revealed What the insult was.
His hesped on the SR was;"er hut
givust vazei mfayes tzuzayn".
Baruch Hashem Achshir doro- today
our Manhigim are NEVER wrong...
Anon
"and most importantly the furnishings would be
defended as not being over the top since everything re
the (fill in the blank with your favorite rebbe)er
Rebbe is perfect."
Excusing yourself by claiming"My wife made me do it" is quite immature for a Rebbe that was pontificating to drivel in every godal beyisroel private and public lives worldwide .
Don't start now a rant on other Gedolim that don't have such a lame excuse for their wifes deed.
Anon
"R Y Hutner when describing the
unique/high regard in which he held
the SR said the following;"
at the same token fill me in
What Rav Hutner said on Rav Kook,
Monday, April 04, 2011 4:29:00 PM writes: (I’m)“You Ferd”
90% of them don’t have a TV Radio or Internet or read a secular newspaper
90% of them don’t know where hollywood or times square is
90% will marry and stay in Wmsb’g or KJ (will not assimilate with small town yidden of the world)
90% will marry beis ruchel girls will dress b’tznious and run a real yiddishe home (without compromises)
90% will wear yiddeshe clothing and will talk yiddish only! Like all gules yidden did.
90% of them will learn v’yoel moshe and divrei yoel and will get a derech h’achaim from it!! Only!
90% don’t have a clue what lubavitch of today represents and how far the drifted from the R’eshab’s times..
90% have a desire to continue life here in America with the innocents of their grand fathers and previous rebbes
90% are temimi life without messing around in toras chabad and the likes! Wich don’t pertain to them!
Call me ‘whatever’ but not assimilated confused americanized cusid who doesn’t know the difference between a ‘trojan horse’ and a real ferd.
I dont have time to all your 90%
"90% of them don’t have a TV Radio or Internet or read a secular newspaper"
Is Kol Mevaser, Der yid Der Blatt,Shtern,Shpaktiv, not secular?
why not because it is written in a yidishiter language. They are extremely goish and fargrebt on the border of Kefira.I believe that 99% of Lubavich reads it.
"90% of them don’t know where hollywood or times square is"
the difference is, both know manhattan 1 for ahavas yisroel putting on tefilin or giving a menora chanuka, the other one for Sinas Yisroel, trying to weaken the Am Hayoshev Betzion, as we all see that all this chitutie shichva business was, and is a farce of Mi Emloch, Shlesinger of London or Stern. They don't give a damn for the bones, they leave it hefker when the buses and the cameras are not their.It was definitely not the derech of the Mharshab.
"90% of them don’t know where hollywood or times square is"
Maybe their are people in Chabad know Holywood, but I am sure that 90% of Satmar know Miami Beach,From the Rebiem down, check it out in the Hielige Shovavim Teg with the"Shviem Klied or without.
"90% will marry and stay in Wmsb’g or KJ (will not assimilate with small town yidden of the world)"
noting what to be proud of, with your Mentality the Chasam Sofer would never be Rav in Pressburg,or the Noda Beyuda in Pague, or the Yetev Lev in Sighet where he had in the Kehila members Mechalelai Shabosim and no taharas hamishpoche , and even Sharmasher Ruv in Sharmash.
All these Rabonim had to assimilate with the yidden of the towns and villages.Just to assure you it is also the derech of the Marshab as he send Shluchim to the Jews in Georgia etc...
"90% don’t have a clue what lubavitch of today represents and how far the drifted from the R’eshab’s times.."
I think that 99% of the world don't get the Satmar way of having a belief system that all gedolie Yisroel are Achov Hamelech, as described in their book of faith Veyoel...How they drifted away from the derech chasam sofer chodesh oser min hatorah, that you dump the Choshen Mishpat and the Kehila has runing 7 to 10 cases by the Goyim Judges and Zionist Judges
"90% have a desire to continue life here in America with the innocents of their grand fathers and previous rebbes"
will Moshiach change their mind?????
"90% are temimi life without messing around in toras chabad and the likes! Wich don’t pertain to them!"
after reading all your weekly newspaper and sites, I would not call this Lietzunas and back stabbing, Temimus, a little perek Lamed Bies wouldn't hurt them
"90% of them will learn v’yoel moshe and divrei yoel and will get a derech h’achaim from it!! Only!"
first time I heard that Satmar gets its derch hachaim from Reb Yoilishes seforim,I saw lately the Satmarer Ideologues crying that nobody learns the seforim, since they don't see it as a derech chaim. I heard that Reb Luzer Horowitz is putting botox in to the divrie yoel, pumping in stuff that was never intended.
"90% of them don’t have a .... or Internet ....... "
who writes Kol Heolem Kuloi, Yidishe..
and who reads them?
I saw too many Zaloni Bucherim reading the long anti aroni rants,given to them by their fathers.
Mister 90 percent
How is that, that it is all even 90?
no 91% or 89% ???
Anon said
"90% of them don’t have a TV Radio or Internet or read a secular newspaper"
I have never seen so many Blackberry's as by a Tish of the Satmar brothers. Will make a good commercial for Blackberry.
Really sad. Does present day Chabad have
a "fold" to be in or out of?
Parents that left Havlei and
Tumas Haolam with genuine Mesiras Nefesh
-credit LR's hard work %100 for that-
see large parts of their families
"frei out". There was a concept of Gaava
Dikdusha that was felt in 19th Century Chabad.
The rank and file of Chabad of that era
were truly superior to most other Chasidusn.
Was there a chip on the shoulder? YES. Was it positive ?
Definitely and well justified! Its tragic to
contemplate the contrast with today.
( Chip might still be there...)
That sense of exclusivity stregnthens
an exsisting community. Although it
comes at a cost to Kiruv honest smart
Lubavichers will tell you that times are different. I knew
a L Chosid who davened by some Rebbaleh
instead of the local Chabad.
He told me his boy"Vet zehn ps'a hadras
ponim m'et updavnen un aheym der zelber
vi gikumen".
The great achievment of
the SR was to create just such a "fold".
By and large his Tzibur has stayed strong
No small feat in America. Time has
come for Chabad to play defense.
Anon
"-credit LR's hard work %100 for that-
see large parts of their families
"frei out"
is there still a miyan every morning shachris in 770 or in Kfar chabad?
Is chabad down to the last 10 shomrie shabos?
BTW, did you hear that the Zali side in Willi had a offical Gabie to take care on affairs that are happening in willi between 16/17 year olds?and now the Gabie himself is accused that he is also a molester. It is sad isn"t it?
after years wearing G&G suits and Palm stockings such a grobbe aveirus are happening in 11211.
Do you want that every morning you should get a report on whats happening under the long Rekelech?
the long rekelech did not help much, it just helps for the image for a outsider not when you live there and hear every morning new crap, as kofrim with Shtriemels. etc..
it is sad, isnt it?
To all 90%'ers
I would respond to logic reasoning differents in haskofos and methods or in halacha! Even to outright innocent stupidities but not to innuendo’s hate directed sideway and going nowhere..
Oi Vey a Broch,
we will be left with no response.
Sorry for not taking you more serious,
I really didn"t know that I am sitting at a halacha and haskofa shiur?
I would of wear my hat and gartel
"Sorry for not taking you more serious"
I'm sorry the halacha and hashkofa part didnt apply to you, rather the 'stupidities' did.
Reb Chochem Hador
Shakoech,
Its ironic to observe the Satmar self
hatred expressed with their
inimitable and unique hungarian vitriol(that's
an english word not a name from KJ)
My point is made so self evident
Go back to where you belong and fix it from within
Your holy Rebbe made sure you had
religious grandparents after the
"lager" show him some gratitude.
Frankly its testing my patience
to read "he said for him" and other
such butcheries of the
Enlish language. Go watch a ConEd
worker climb down a manhole. Just
remember to wipe your
drooling mouths when they're agape.
Anon
"Go back to where you belong and fix it from within
Your holy Rebbe made sure you had
religious grandparents after the
"lager" show him some gratitude."
no body can take credit for my fathers and grandfathers being frum before or after the war. My father is not 1 of the bums after the shoah,that became yiddish because the Sakmer Ruv put him on a Shtriemel while he was still doing grobe avierus.
Anon
"Frankly its testing my patience
to read "he said for him" and other
such butcheries of the
Enlish language"
In Klienvierden they were makpid to butcher even on Loshen Kodesh, the language of the goyim they for sure butchered away?
do you have a mesorah? or what?
R' Aron Schechter once made the
point that had the alter fun Slabodka
lived here he'd have spoken the
english of the ny times.
Although the AFS is
not Posek Achron nor RAS- the
point is they specialized in kovod
ho'odom. When it comes to
self respect there's
something to be said for
speaking the language of the
land correctly
If for Chassidishe reasons
you don't want to pronounce the
leshoynes hoamim correctly.
(The holy divrei chaim of tzanz ZY"A
- obviouly dwarfed the AFS- was very
makpid)
Fine -just don't inflict yourselves
on the world at large
One of the reasons your rebbes
didn't want you knowing grammar
was to preserve and segregate.
Prevent you from sinning
Not for you peasants to mingle and
proudly bask in your ignorance.
So please keep it real on
"Soate Nayn Strrit" where I can't hear you
I don't know you, (I am not even eager to know since you are too sophisticated for me)it seems you are from the UberKlass of Coney Island Ave. I will stick to my Klienvarden peasants Landsliet, and keep on writing my charadie ebonics, and you can choose not even to look on the side of the Ustjuden writing.
"charadie ebonics vs. Ustjuden writing"
are these Klienvarden peasants talk ?
I am from the Ungeliente of Klienvardien, I read the Moreh once.
Someone who "READS" moreh nevuchim is either a self deceptive fool or an Apikores
Moreh Nevuchim can only be understood by a real lamdan
Much of it is new concepts in inyonmim of which we have preconceived notions from childhood
If you can decipher Birkas Shmuel or really understand Derech Mitzvosecho then
you stand a chance
Some use it to discredit our mesorah in
Inyoney Yiddishkeit. A bar daas can see that such an attempt is shtusim. A
Hugarian is in danger. My Galicianer grandfather
told me in Galicia an
ingerisher was known as a
Vasser Pollak
The brisker rov once asked R'Amrom blau " Vi kumt os eich an opshtamiker fun Ungarn aza eiddalleh havoneh ?
Anon
"The brisker rov once asked R'Amrom blau " Vi kumt os eich an opshtamiker fun Ungarn aza eiddalleh havoneh ?"
the first time I hear a racial statement from Brisker Ruv, I tought the Brisker Racisim started by Reb Berel and followed thru by AJ
As far as I know the Blau family are also einiklech of the Keren Orah.
Anon
Ungarische Yiden that were not chasidim were using the Biur that is basically a collection of Rishonim al Hatorah and the Moreh, and they were not apikorsim. The Shlezinger will of the Chasam Sofer did not have a impact on them.
Anon
"Moreh Nevuchim can only be understood by a real lamdan"
the Yismach Moshe and the Divrie chaim quote the Moreh very liberal. Belz was the most closed minded chasidus that banned even the Shemonai Perokim of the rambam.
I'd like to reach out to all heimishe produktn
and provide some help
You people have a problem with the
letter A and E.
The letter A is enuncuiated as used
in the word Apple not Epple or Eccident.
The letter E is enunciated as used in
the word bEd "EH".
Many of you remember Shulem Landau's
sign "Fresh Kraplech"... VD"L
Hirshel, I don't get what this article is talking about. could you help me out? my Yiddish isn't so good......
I don't get what this article is saying
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