As many of you know I have recently started a new job within my original profession. It involves getting up early every day, davening early, and rushing off to work, something I was not used to doing. I am not a what you call a sheltered person but I'm shocked at what I see, seemingly the whole world has gone crazy.
For those people, myself somewhat included, doing the 9-5 city thing doesn't sound like that big of a deal, even if it is in "Corporate America". You're a settled guy whose not easily swayed or tempted, so you've got nothing to worry about, right?
But what about those sheltered young men who rarely if ever stepped out of their communities, maybe to travel to the Catskills or to Monsey was their only trip out of town, do we not think that their education is losing its luster? Does he stand a chance in his heavy Levush in the summertime?
I'm obviously not saying that Chassidishe Yungeleit are leaving the fold in droves, it's what inside that doesn't tell the whole story. Is the culture shock (for lack of a better term) really necessary, or should the education process somehow include relating to the real world in an Halachically permissible way? Is the Chassidic community correct in sheltering their members so strongly from any outside influence, so much so that a Yungerman can't conjure a sentence in English without losing his teeth, let alone deal with non-religious or even religious non-Chassidic people?
16 comments:
welcome to the real world. this is were you were born to be. Now you have to leave the cacoon and fly mr. butterfly. you have to change this mess of a world into a place of Torah. I new a guy who did time in jail he said there you learn to pray. we are all in the jail of life and this is why we are here. be brave and strong your mommy loves you and your dad is proud of you. you can do more in one day in the world then in 25 years in a place like boro park.
heshy,
hatzlocha in all respects...on the one hand the city is no place for a frum yid to be.....its tuuma town...but like your last post says you will make a difference.
You say 'relating to the world in a halachically permissible way'...that is what happens now... your paradym chosid is acting halachically ( in general) but often lacks social grace (many reasons including discomfort in dealing with goyim, frie yidden, women, lack of language, etc..). This lack of grace maintains a aforce field so to speak between him and the velt. On the other hand, i've met many successful business men who started in this fashion and became self educated in social veltish (manhattan)grace. IN general both maintain their yiddishkeit , but the business man often starts breaching halacha. He very often answers to other important enties (not just G-ds). The more social contact a chareidi has with goyim, the more likely incorporation of goyish values.... whats the crime with cultural ineptitude... it protects us...
N
that's the point. It's only as long as the Chossid is within his community and has no knowledge or passage to the outside world that he keeps his standards, once he comes in contact with the world he's done for.
Must it be this way?
Is the only other way total seclusion?
Does he have to stay in Boro Park/Williamsburg all his life and live off the government?
oh come off it, if he is a true chosid he is up to the test and will not be turned into paste!!!
stop this little girly thing now!!!
and you will be stronger for it!
you know i used to work in boro park for 5years I was so happy to get out of there.
no more pizza lunch. no more 20 minyan to choose from. and you get to help people. you know almost once a week people ask me for help with jewish stuff. this is why we are here not to just take up space and agree that we are doing a great job and everyone else is not.
I do beleve that I can speak for all of us in this blog world when we get together to bless you in this new Heshy move. be stong and be brave. you have many pals who do love you even if you do not show up for the 6:50 am minyan.
I myself come on about 7:30 am spend about 15 min saying hello pray have a hot drink(sometimes crown royal with fish thank you lonely in back) learn a blat and head out to work. this is the cheese of life. enjoy it do not look at it as pain but become the wave of pain. and ride it home.
oh my stars leave our hero alone,is it not enough that he has to get dressed in the morning and say things like "hello" and "good morning" all of you boys do not understand the deep trauma that our hero Heshy is going through it is not like he can just hit someone he does not like. oh no our hero must make it in the world.
will goyem who do not understand what it means to have to talk to them. and be "cheerfull" and "happy". You can do Heshy!
heshy,
yeah, it must be this way ..in general....history is the only place to find evidence to answer the questions...but again whats so bad about cultural obstacles toward assimilation...yiddish name, clothes, language...right?
By the way...are you keeping your food stamps, wic and section 8 even though you got a job?
my dear N,
you do not know how much they are paying our dear Heshy. but heshy if you do not need your wic....
that apple sause and veggies is ok.
I don't like the beach nut. can you get soy crisps with food stamps?
m'heiche teiseh?
well actually those with high income can get wic but its just too much of a pain
HEY! YOU'VE BEEN DELETING POSTS!!!!
HOW VERY UN-ANTI-TZEMACH OF YOU!!!
only on stupid and personal grounds, not on political ones
stop seeing everything in terms of "us vs. them". You are entitled to think that your way works better for you; but kown that "they" think that "their" way works better for "them" and they will show you that "they" are right.
Do what is the right thing in your eyes and be mekadesh shem shomayim and bring the light of Torah and Chassidus and the words of the Rebbe to all your sorroundings; but the condescensiing attitude towards other frumme yidden is a disservice for you, them and everyone else it is also not "true" in it's entirety.
hatzlocho rabboh in your job...
Very interesting comments.Its an emotional issue and there are NO absolute answers here.
Although I was raised and CHOSE to remain in the bifurcated world of Modern orthodoxy, I admire the Charedi world and think that they hold the future in terms of messorah and Jewish knowledge.
But rabim chalalim, many may fall, Lo alainu but the MO world is no better.
The charedi world needs to develp communities where they not only live and daven together but alas also work together, coops , factories, workshops, incubators, tech industries servicing banks etc like in Indiacould employ hundreds of yungeleit and they need not be privarely owned but Kehilha sponsored. That is by the way what Rav Michel Ber Weismandel ZT"L desired in the Yeshiva Farm settlement in Mt Kisco, a farm , printing press, agricultural processing, bakery etc. A healthy integrated community of Charedim davening learning living and working together.Alas his colleagues etc turned his dream into another Hungarian yeshiva.
Good luck !
wow a jewish work farm.what year was that? some how I could not see our hero Heshy working on an onion farm. he would be good as a cowboy. I think our hero will make it in the world. why I do belive that this is the birth of a new stronger Heshy. more understanding and yet more of a backbone to Torah & mitzvahs. the only wasted life is the one unexamined.It is my feeling that both extremes of the torah world the modern orthodox and the super frummie are not willing to deal with the madness of the world. so both run for cover one to the getto the other to the basketball game.
Kurenitzer
Reb Michoel Ber did try to for his community to be self-sufficient but also to be totally disconnected from society. In his ideal the community would've sustained itself by selling the wares of its inhabitants but would've had no contact with the outside world! (at least that's how I see it) So why choose that scenario as the preferred way?
Unfortunately Nitra has gone the way of all other Hungarian Yeshivos, i.e. Hostile takeover by Satmar, they're all satellite nations now.
not related to this topic, but since mentioned Rav WeissMandel, i recently heard something strong from him:
that the German Yidden (who) managed to go out from Germany before the war WITH THIER MONEY! (unlike...) is because they tended to try to be perfect in beynodom lechaveyroy!
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