It seems that those who say the 1st Selichos on Motzoei Shabbos don't have it right. They're missing out on the way it should be done, it's just not the same.
Take case 1:
Reb Yid goes to shul at Mincha, eats or doesn't eat a big 3rd meal, hears שאלישידעס תורה or a מאמר חסידות, sings Niggunim and so on. When he gets home there's not much he can do to prepare for Selichos, since he has to wrap up the Shabbos and attend to the mundane chores of Motzoei Shabbos. The מלוה מלכה is a hurried one, and if he's really religious he Chaps a Mikveh before Selichos since G-d knows what he did since the morning Mikveh. At 1am he says Selichos, usually without as much as a word of preparation from the Rov or Rebbe, watches the clock all Selichos, and is in bed by 2:15 or so, barely mumbling Krias Shema, and as tired as can be. The next morning he can barely get up, misses זמן תפלה, and the 1st Day of Selichos's davenen has יענער פנים.
Now imagine this:
Reb Yid (2) has the same schedule up until Motzoei Shabbos, but his night is different. [He's nervous about the next day and not getting enough sleep, so he rushes through the Motzoei Shabbos rituals, yes, but all for a good cause, after all he's gotta be up at 4am!] The next morning he's up at 4am, rushes to the Mikveh, and listens to an impassioned Droshoh than can melt a heart of stone. (Anybody heard the קלויזענבורגער רב'ס דרשה פון תשכ"ז?) The Selichos obviously goes accordingly, and the Davenen follows suit. He may even fast half a day, since he already had his coffee in the pre-morn hours, so that he's good to go till 1pm, and especially since he may eaten at the Atrium in Monsey 4 years ago.
See if you can figure out to which group or קרייז Reb Yid #1 belongs to, and where Reb Yid #2 belongs. I apologize to my father in adavance if he may take offense to this post. It's all in good fun.
א גוטע סליחה
11 comments:
"...misses זמן תפלה..."
You're a funny guy!
what about שינה בשבת תענג?
I am not sure why you write that this post is in 'fun'.
Aderaba, you indeed raise some very good points. Having participated in both types of Selichos over the years, there is no doubt at all that the eeriness of getting up 'fartogs'- in the dark and going to shul in the quiet streets adds very much to the occasion and to the kavonos hatefilah. Also doing so ensures that one davvens Shachris with minyan and tefila and K/sh bezmano.
The midnight method has much less 'ernstkeit'. And having gone to bed so late, many sleep in Sunday morning and often miss minyan and zemanim.
Just have a look at those shuls where these 'midnighters' davven shachris and you'll see that it is so. So the first day of Selichos is almost a write-off - beruchniyos.
Unkeles
my suspicions about you were just confirmed.
The only thing that's seemingly important to you is the ארום of the Mitzvos, i.e. that it look and feel good, it should be dark when you go to Slichos etc.
The same can be said that when you don't have enough sleep, and you then say Selichos, of what good is that? You just yawn throughout Selichos and Davening, with very little Kavonoh throughout!
You silly and untrue comments about which "type" of Shuls say at night is nothing short of moronic. Kehillos have been saying it like that for Hundreds of years if not more, including those that worry about their Ruchniyus.
The Selichoh is במוצאי מנוחה, CORRECT? and that should be said when? Sunday Morning?
The Jewish Worker has a post on the topic, including actually quoting Shulchan Aruch and other Achronim. Unlike here where I quote my own בויך סברות
Reb Yid #2 is a Litvak!!
A real Ben Torah. Davening Selichos in a Yeshiva in the morning.
"Biashmores Haboker"............"not "Bimotzei Menucha".
Avremel du redts shtusim. Unkeles (and Tzig) made a few very good points about the differences of midnight v. fartogs. Yes, indeed the atmosphere and 'feeling' make a big difference when doing mitzvos or davvening.
Of course there are different ###### on when to say it...elu ve'elu.. But check out the most authentic and unchanged minhagim of acheinu haSfardim and you'll see that they say it in the morning (in fact all of Elul)
YW
you're really showing off your "knowledge" here. Are we speaking of the same Selichoh? The First one? go check your book please.
The Shulchan Aruch is quite clear about it - MASHKIMIN LESELICHOS
early
are you referring to the Mechaber? where he speaks of the entire Chodesh Elul?
We speak here of the first night, as per the Ashkenazic custom of saying only the week before Rosh Hashonoh.
See Kitzur Shulchan Aruch
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