Please answer I've seen loads of Lubavitchers mostly bochurim coming to New York last couple of days.What is it about?Do yeshivas still send boys for Tishrei or this is an individual thing? How about older people, do they also come in for Tishrei?
Tzvi, I just saw the hatchet job you did on Yudel Shain on chadoshos anash. I 'liked' your disclaimer that you don't work for Rubashin, you fail to say that you are a Chabadsker who never fails to stand up for a fellow Chabadsker as evil as he is and your blog and droppings on the various chadrei chareidim are proof.So obviously you have an ax to grind. Now a disclaimer of my own:I don't know Yudel Shain from a hole in the wall.I did hear part of the Brenner show and I listened to the yiddish hot line.For example his point that Rubashkin is the ONLY plant that owns the animals and must sell them ALL including treif,Actually 85% of the business is treif(he makes a cheshbon with only 30% kosher and the hindquarters not used comes out about 85%)gives them a MAJOR incentive to be machshir neveiles.He also read out some points from R'Weismandels private report.It was not pretty. Now lets get to some very side issues:Moshe Rubashkin was locked up for fraud, that you know, right?Nothing to do with tatty Rubashkin, but still.Now, I read Stephen Blooms book on Postville, he is not a 'snag, he is not even frum.Rubashkin inc. cameout of that book smelling like money grubbing felons.Horrible.I would never do business with them, frankly. I can also tell you that Shimon Goldman, who sadly closed up shop was very angry at them selling so cheap in supermarkets at about the same price he bought for wholesale, all to get as much business as possible and elimenate parnosehs for others.It's their right, but it stinks. Tzvi, some honesty would not hurt you, believe me. There is no question in my mind that THE ONLY reason you have attacked Shain is because he has the 'chutzpeh' of uncovering some of the shmutz in a lubavitch owned business.
yes, lots of Bochurim come for Tishrei, as do men and women. Some Yeshivas do come together and they have Sedorim together, others come alone and join the other guests. They come to spend the Yomim Tovim in the Rebbe's shul and at the Ohel.
Everybody in HydePark knows that I'm a Lubavitcher, it's no secret at all, so why do I have to say it? Does Yudel Shain say that he's a rabid שונא חב"ד everytime he criticizes Rubashkin? You read my comments there, and you should follow up on the statements I made there.
Shimon Goldman is upset at them for selling in the supermarkets? Oh Kay. What should I say? Goldman was ever a wholesaler? How does this affect the Kashrus of Rubashkin's chicken?
Moshe R's relationship with his family is very shaky, and for that reason, that he's a wild, crazy guy. He does not work in the meat business. Do we blame his father for him?
Question:Do you know Yudel Shain?.I'd be surprised if you did, since he is double your age and lives in Lakewood.Where in heaven would you know that he is a rabid rabid שונא חב"ד from? Anyway:Whatever you say about him, he makes POINTS is vehement about them and is honest enough not to hide-Why are you guys always using your 'ace' a 'rabid שונא חב"ד' whenever someone criticizes Lubavitch or even a Lubavitch owned business.Can't you get real and not attack the messenger? Answer his points.
Tzvi As usual you make no sense. Who said he is out for revenge-you,right?Rubashkin said so-ok,maybe.There is no way I can verify that objectively. Yudels points, for example that since the plant owns the animals they have a vested interest that as many animals as possible are kosher so they can make the kosher premium or win the proverbial lotto with a glatt kosher premium is a ' a gutteh tayneh' Other kosher meat producers don't own the animals and pay only for the kosher ones. Lets try and be honest with ourselves. N.B Please stop selling me your 'used goods' claims that Yudel is a Chabad hater because of 'e-mails'.I or others cannot verify that.Please raise the level of debate. Ex Detroiter copied your exchange with a poster called Unkelus and basically showed you how you don't answer 'tzim zach'.Plese try
it's tough to answer every comment made here, simply because I have little time. You can see that in every discussion here, that if I really wanted to I could continue conversations forever.
Having said that I can say this much:
Yudel Shain visited the plant and gave it his blessing. The problems started when money become an issue. Rubashkin may be the owner and have vested interests in selling his meat, but does that automatically guilty? The fact remains that his plant is held under great scrutiny and is open to the public. For all the controversy about his plant, both in Kashrus and humane issues, I would think there would be more than just circumstancial "evidence" against him (also a misnomer, being that there really is none)
Shain doesn't just accuse Rubashkin, he inadvertently accuses the past and present Rabbonim that give a hechsher on his plant, including:
KAJ OU Rav Weissmandl The Margaretener Rov
I would think he would need more than just what he has till now.
Shain's accusations fall down completely when he cites hearsay "objections" from Rav Weissmandl as evidence of p'sullim. Weissmandl's explicit and repeated statements to the contrary are completely glossed over.
Basically Shain's arguments can be summed up as "Who you gonna believe; me or your lying eyes?"
Shain's accusations fall down completely when he cites hearsay "objections" from Rav Weissmandl as evidence of p'sullim. Weissmandl's explicit and repeated statements to the contrary are completely glossed over.
Basically Shain's arguments can be summed up as "Who you gonna believe; me or your lying eyes?"
11 comments:
I should really leave stories like this one to blogs like Vos Iz Naies and Yeshiva World. I'm not sure what compelled me to do this.
Please answer
I've seen loads of Lubavitchers mostly bochurim coming to New York last couple of days.What is it about?Do yeshivas still send boys for Tishrei or this is an individual thing?
How about older people, do they also come in for Tishrei?
Tzvi, I just saw the hatchet job you did on Yudel Shain on chadoshos anash.
I 'liked' your disclaimer that you don't work for Rubashin, you fail to say that you are a Chabadsker who never fails to stand up for a fellow Chabadsker as evil as he is and your blog and droppings on the various chadrei chareidim are proof.So obviously you have an ax to grind.
Now a disclaimer of my own:I don't know Yudel Shain from a hole in the wall.I did hear part of the Brenner show and I listened to the yiddish hot line.For example his point that Rubashkin is the ONLY plant that owns the animals and must sell them ALL including treif,Actually 85% of the business is treif(he makes a cheshbon with only 30% kosher and the hindquarters not used comes out about 85%)gives them a MAJOR incentive to be machshir neveiles.He also read out some points from R'Weismandels private report.It was not pretty.
Now lets get to some very side issues:Moshe Rubashkin was locked up for fraud, that you know, right?Nothing to do with tatty Rubashkin, but still.Now, I read Stephen Blooms book on Postville, he is not a 'snag, he is not even frum.Rubashkin inc. cameout of that book smelling like money grubbing felons.Horrible.I would never do business with them, frankly.
I can also tell you that Shimon Goldman, who sadly closed up shop was very angry at them selling so cheap in supermarkets at about the same price he bought for wholesale, all to get as much business as possible and elimenate parnosehs for others.It's their right, but it stinks.
Tzvi, some honesty would not hurt you, believe me.
There is no question in my mind that THE ONLY reason you have attacked Shain is because he has the 'chutzpeh' of uncovering some of the shmutz in a lubavitch owned business.
Anonymous (2:42pm)
yes, lots of Bochurim come for Tishrei, as do men and women. Some Yeshivas do come together and they have Sedorim together, others come alone and join the other guests. They come to spend the Yomim Tovim in the Rebbe's shul and at the Ohel.
Chaim Shimon (the name is very familiar)
Everybody in HydePark knows that I'm a Lubavitcher, it's no secret at all, so why do I have to say it? Does Yudel Shain say that he's a rabid שונא חב"ד everytime he criticizes Rubashkin? You read my comments there, and you should follow up on the statements I made there.
Shimon Goldman is upset at them for selling in the supermarkets? Oh Kay. What should I say? Goldman was ever a wholesaler? How does this affect the Kashrus of Rubashkin's chicken?
Moshe R's relationship with his family is very shaky, and for that reason, that he's a wild, crazy guy. He does not work in the meat business. Do we blame his father for him?
Question:Do you know Yudel Shain?.I'd be surprised if you did, since he is double your age and lives in Lakewood.Where in heaven would you know that he is a rabid rabid שונא חב"ד from?
Anyway:Whatever you say about him, he makes POINTS is vehement about them and is honest enough not to hide-Why are you guys always using your 'ace' a 'rabid שונא חב"ד' whenever someone criticizes Lubavitch or even a Lubavitch owned business.Can't you get real and not attack the messenger?
Answer his points.
I know Yudel's opinion about Lubavitch from conversations that were had with him via email, so I don't need to be his age.
Let him answer my points, mainly that he's out for revenge because they dismissed him as a money-hungry ---------.
Tzvi
As usual you make no sense.
Who said he is out for revenge-you,right?Rubashkin said so-ok,maybe.There is no way I can verify that objectively.
Yudels points, for example that since the plant owns the animals they have a vested interest that as many animals as possible are kosher so they can make the kosher premium or win the proverbial lotto with a glatt kosher premium is a ' a gutteh tayneh'
Other kosher meat producers don't own the animals and pay only for the kosher ones.
Lets try and be honest with ourselves.
N.B Please stop selling me your 'used goods' claims that Yudel is a Chabad hater because of 'e-mails'.I or others cannot verify that.Please raise the level of debate.
Ex Detroiter copied your exchange with a poster called Unkelus and basically showed you how you don't answer 'tzim zach'.Plese try
Chaim Shimon
it's tough to answer every comment made here, simply because I have little time. You can see that in every discussion here, that if I really wanted to I could continue conversations forever.
Having said that I can say this much:
Yudel Shain visited the plant and gave it his blessing. The problems started when money become an issue. Rubashkin may be the owner and have vested interests in selling his meat, but does that automatically guilty? The fact remains that his plant is held under great scrutiny and is open to the public. For all the controversy about his plant, both in Kashrus and humane issues, I would think there would be more than just circumstancial "evidence" against him (also a misnomer, being that there really is none)
Shain doesn't just accuse Rubashkin, he inadvertently accuses the past and present Rabbonim that give a hechsher on his plant, including:
KAJ
OU
Rav Weissmandl
The Margaretener Rov
I would think he would need more than just what he has till now.
Shain's accusations fall down completely when he cites hearsay "objections" from Rav Weissmandl as evidence of p'sullim. Weissmandl's explicit and repeated statements to the contrary are completely glossed over.
Basically Shain's arguments can be summed up as "Who you gonna believe; me or your lying eyes?"
Shain's accusations fall down completely when he cites hearsay "objections" from Rav Weissmandl as evidence of p'sullim. Weissmandl's explicit and repeated statements to the contrary are completely glossed over.
Basically Shain's arguments can be summed up as "Who you gonna believe; me or your lying eyes?"
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