Wednesday, June 2, 2010

Mezhibuzh, Haditch and Niezhin - 5770

Mezhibuzh is back on the map. For several years now a large group of Chassidei HaBesh"t from all over the world travel there for Shavuos, which is the Yohrtzeit of the aforementioned Baal Shem Tov. Pictures of the days preceding and following the Yom Tov have reached the offices of Circus Tent and we share them with our readers for their viewing pleasure. Some of the chassidim, who happen to be Chassidei Chabad as well, traveled to Haditch (resting place of the Alter Rebbe, the Baal HaTanya) and Niezhin (resting place of his son and successor, the Mitteler Rebbe) on Friday, spending Shabbos after Shavuos in Haditch. Rachmistrivka, home to several descendants of Reb Mottele Tchernobler, was also visited.


Pictured on the right is HaRaHa"Ch Reb Nachman Yosef Twerski of Crown Heights, son of the late Rachmistrivker Rebbe of Yerushalayim. To his right is a Yid from CH whose name escapes me at the moment.


Here we have the Mashpia Reb Chaim Sholom Deitsch of Yerushalayim with an unidentified man who bought a Dashik in Mezhibuzh and is very proud of it.


Reb Nachman Yosef outside the shul in Rachmistrivka where his zeides "tore" the heavens apart on behalf of the Jewish People. The other yungeleit with him are "unidentified."


RNYT in a moment of dveykus while walking around the hoyf in Rachmistrivkeh. If only the green grass could talk and tell us what happened here in the past!


RNYT putting up on Tefillin with Mendel Lipkovitz the Rosh HaKohol in Niezhin. For those of you who have "rachmonis on his zeides," please remember that the Skverrer Rebbe and hundreds of chassidim also took part in Mivtzah Tefillin when they traveled to Russia way back in 1990. Not that we need that as "proof;" I'm just trying to clam down and help a Yiddishe Neshomoh who may have agmas nefesh from RNY's good deeds here...

129 comments:

Anonymous said...

Hirshel
Don't built him up too much, the brother will send some goons to beat the hell out of you, we the Rebbes don't like competition.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

his brother has goons too?

shimon said...

Haha, Reb Nachman Yosef keeps wearing a shtreiml just to keep his family minhag. He doesn't follow the fashion trends so his shtreiml is now about 1/3 height compared to those of his cousins.

Mottel said...

Many of the hats sold outside of the kever in Medzibuzh are shatnez.

Anonymous said...

Why do you love those that got farchapt? Why the hell is did the Skverers make a tfilin campaign in Russia? Does this Rebbeshe eynekel aslo send his teenage son to Manhatten on Friday during the Summer together with hundreds (maybe even thousands) Lubabs?

The "other" anon said...

Nachman Yosef has mesires nefesh for the Shlit"a.Had he not drunk the kool-aid he would be Rachmastrivka Rebbe today.
There is still hope that one of his zedehs will poel ois in shomayim on behalf of the kids that they should be shlepped out of the "kas".Umen kein yehi rutzon!

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

"other" anon

it looks like rather than having ferdishe chassidim like yourself he chose to be a Chossid himself. I think his zeides will focus on shlepping out their mechalel shabbos eyniklach first. When they'll be done with them maybe they'll come for NY.

G-d bless him for that.

The "other" anon said...

"it looks like rather than having ferdishe chassidim like yourself he chose to be a Chossid himself. "


From one kool-aider to another.
Nachman Yosef had a great father and grandfather to learn and grow from, but the sitra achra with their vodka and kool-aid drugged him up and schlepped him away.Their is hope for the kids, though.I myself told one of his sons that their is still hope.As long as they are not ashamed of their Yiddishe levish and their payes, unlike the "kas hayodi'a" who cut off their payes and wear jeans, there is still hope!

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

"other anon"

the holy Satmar Rebbe once said that a relative cannot be a chossid. I guess RNYT wanted the real experience.

that and to get away from the likes of you.

The "other" anon said...

Sometimes we don't realize what a treasure we are sitting next to and don't appreciate it.R'Akiva Eigers grandson R'Leibelah from Lublin who joined chasidim writes that he was by his grandfather on Rosh Hashuneh iirc and instead of getting from the zeideh he was "praving dveykus".Later on he was sorry.

Whatever happenned with Nachman Yosef while the Rebbe was around is one thing, now that Lubavitch has no rebbe and is in shambles with infighting between the various kool-aided baaley mesiras nefesh and the ruchniyes is bishfal hamadreigah,at least in the Lubavitch centers like C.Heights, it's time he came home!!

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

you don't know him.

Home? where's that? His brother's hoyf?

now go away.

Anonymous said...

The Other
try to be consistent and don't tallk like a ferd, Before u wrote "but the sitra achra with their vodka and kool-aid drugged him up and schlepped him away."
now you write "Whatever happenned with Nachman Yosef while the Rebbe was around is one thing," does consistemncy matter by you? or you live and die with that thought process

Anonymous said...

the other anon
"Had he not drunk the kool-aid he would be Rachmastrivka Rebbe today." By just not drinking Kool aid you get license to be a rachmisstrivker rebbe? If that is all to the title Rebbe then I am mad at my great parents who changed from Traditional yiddishkiet to Hasidim.

The "other" anon said...

Tzig,
You wrote :"you don't know him".How do you know? Meshenechrav Bais Hamikdosh Nevieh nitnu leshoitim?

"Home? where's that? His brother's hoyf?"
Home=Back to Yidden.

"now go away"
To you I say "Stay away!".We don't need you back tsvishen yidden,stay by Lubavitch and good riddance to bad rubbish!!!

nochum said...

When was the last time any Lubavitcher "rabbi" was given siddur kidushin by a regular heimishe wedding?
None that I recall.By normal frum Jews "Lubavitcher" and "rabbi" don't mesh.They are ignorant fools or in the best case naive apologists

Anonymous said...

"By just not drinking Kool aid you get license to be a rachmisstrivker rebbe?"

In the "Derech Habesht" world, you need the clothes and then you are a rebbe.
Bankrupt

Yisroel Dov said...

On the picture outside the shul in Rachmistrivka, I recognize the Yungerman without the hat; his name is Ch. Y. Friedman from Monsey.

duvy said...

What does Twersky do?

Mottel said...

-nochum: Besides the fact that you're wrong, I think it speaks more for the problems of "regular heimishe" crowd, then with Lubavitch.

nochum said...

" Besides the fact that you're wrong"
Mottel,
And you would know if I"m right or wrong,right???
You wouldn't know a Heimishe Yid or ruv if it hit you on your jeans and sneakers!
Why do Lubavitchers have to talk out of the "better" parts about stuff they know nothing about?
To you guys any Jew dressed in traditional Jewish garb and peyos is a "peylisher"

nochum said...

The one Lubavitcher who knows a little bit about the Heimishe world is Hirshel because he grew up in Boro Park and went to a chasidishe cheider, the rest of you are just ignorant about us

Mottel said...

-Nochum: obviously you are far more ignorant about me - then I of you. I have neither jeans nor sneakers.
You, my friend, are just a hater.

Anonymous said...

duvy
he is a magid shiur, is that good or bad?

Anonymous said...

Nochum,
"he rest of you are just ignorant about us"
if a lubavicher chosed is lernuing nigleh and chassidus every day and he doesnt know anything "about us" as good as hirshel, you realy think he is missing somthing?
"about us" please explain that to me what does that mean? G&G Meal Mart

nochum said...

"if a lubavicher chosed is lernuing nigleh and chassidus every day and he doesnt know anything "about us" as good as hirshel, you realy think he is missing somthing? "

Anon 6:46pm
"If" a Lubavitcher learns:Quite a big "if".Some Lubavitchers learn a little most just say Ramba"m and Tanya and don't understand anything.
So back to the question: "if" a Lubavitcher learns, does he miss not knowing about us??
Maybe not, but the point being is that at least this fellow will say "I don't know anything about other kreizen" If he attempts "mevinus" about other groups such as this guy Mottel, a real ignorant yuckel, than, yes, it's a big problem.

nochum said...

What does "us" mean??

Anybody Hemishe Yidden outside of your Crown Heights, where you have happily managed to banish all non Lubavitcher, so today your chevereh are clueless about anyone outside of freiyaks and your neighbourly "shechoirem" who you are busy trying to be mekarev to sheva mitzvos but in the meantime you've learned a bit more from them with your drugged up youth copying the latest ghetto styles of dress and song

Anonymous said...

Tzig please post this without edits.....

Ther Rebbe needed guys like R' Twerski and R Mendel Vechter to Chabad to try to stem the tide. The kids are off the derech.

In Rachmastrivka, they could learn chasidus and do everything they wanted, but live withing the chareidi world. The Rebbe never having grown up in the 'closed minded world' and R' Levi hiring his children a limudei chol tutor, rejected the ways accepted by the charedi world through the generations.....

He tried to say it was the old fight between those who fought the Alter Rebbe (e.g. sleeping in suka) but anyone with sechel saw past this as a bluf. Most of the chareidi world leaders saw this and rejected everything but the outreach.....

The Rebbe only commanded them to keep the levushim so Chabad would not be accused of 'frayim them out' (I heard this from R' Mendel Vechter personally).

Lubavitch tried very hard to 'chap' Professor A.J. Twerski and even told him twice that he must move to New York, but he politely refused.


The fact that Chabad is so successful today shows that for the last 20 years, the Rebbe was no longer involved and it grows even stronger without him......

Anonymous said...

Nochum
thanks for your explaining it so articulate, I realized that they are missing a lot, wow wow wow

Mottel said...

-Nochum: Thank you got proving my point. Refuah shleima

Anonymous said...

Anon,
the Rebbe was very successful in hafotzas chasidus before they came to Lubavich and after they came.Don't make this 2 people as the Rebbes saviour,

Anonymous said...

Anon
"The Rebbe never having grown up in the 'closed minded world' and R' Levi hiring his children a limudei chol tutor, rejected the ways accepted by the charedi world through the generations....."
so reb Levik was the cause for the chabad friying out, every day a new anti chabad twist.Did the Chasam sofers kids that learned elementary secular limudim belong to the charidie world? Did the Munkacher Rov that got a secular degree from the Nitra acedemy belong to the Charidie world? What an idiotic statement?

nochum said...

"The Rebbe only commanded them to keep the levushim so Chabad would not be accused of 'frayim them out' (I heard this from R' Mendel Vechter personally)."

Pity they were not told to keep their hair short and shorn like real chasidishe yingerlait.I"ve noticed a similar thing by Zalman Leib Markowitz also a Satmar aka poylisher who became Lubavitch.He kept the levish with the peyos by allows his hair to grow a little bit longer

Anonymous said...

Anon,
Lubavich is not embarrassed that they work to get people in to the Chabad fold, learning Chasidus being Mekusher to the tzadik hador. It was the offical goal of the Rebiem, so don't act as if Chabad was caught red handed

Anonymous said...

Chareid ahin Charedi aher. Was the Rebbe's love for secular education from youth until adulthood something that was precedented in Chabad?

Anonymous said...

Nochum
"Pity they were not told"
they were told by whom? is their a command center in 770 that guides them every morning with a index card,
you ferd

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

the haters are out in full force, and this they go and on unchecked, unchallenged. Or so they think.

nochem said...

Anon 8pm,


"Lubavich is not embarrassed that they work to get people in to the Chabad fold, learning Chasidus being Mekusher to the tzadik hador. It was the offical goal of the Rebiem, so don't act as if Chabad was caught red handed"

Wait a second!!!
Are you saying that Lubavitch officially condone missionary style activities to "chap" Yidden to Lubavitch???
So all those underground shiurim in yeshivos are just a way to "chap" people???
Man!!So Satmar were right when they beat the c**p out of Wechter!!!
Sick stuff.You sound like you were also "caught".Do yourself a favour and google "stokholm syndrome".
Btw, today that Chabad, are trying to make people "mekisher" to Tzadik Hador, who is that Tzadik,Mendel Wechter??

Anonymous said...

Go ahead an post what I said and let's see a rational rebuttal.Don't hide behind censorship

Anonymous said...

I"m up to any of your so called challenges

Anonymous said...

Seems whenever the infamous "Wechter affair" comes up the Lubavitcher go on the defensive.Even they understand that to target young impressionable kids is just not seen as being right.
I guess that is why they use the empty "hater" excuse, this coming from the well known "ohavei yisroel"

Anonymous said...

Anon,
You believe that Chabad has to be banged by every guy that has a bad hair day with no response ,its not Wechter, its every day a other issue, Rav Wechter opened the Yeshivah with no chabad inclinations, he was considered in town a outstnding Lamdan and Yerie shomaim, and obviously his Emeser yiras shomaim led him to Chabad. I am advising you don't sent your son to a real person that can end up going the way of his soul searchings out of the box. Send him to some nice guy that will allways be a nice good morning america guy.

Anonymous said...

Chabad changed many people from seeing the emes to becoming 'cool aiders'

If you would show R' Mendel Vechter what Lubavitch and Satmar look like today, I am not so sure he would not have stayed Satmar.

If you would tell him that some of the first class mashpiyim are telling people a dead Rebbe is Moshiach.......and

What Reb Mendel would have called kfira mamash, kneged the aseres hadibrois....he at the forefront of spreading today himself.....

For the average non-shliach baal habos, please tell us what the Chabad lifestyle adds to a person's yidishkeit that he cannot have by learning chassidus, having ahavas yisrael in Boro Park and Yerushalayim.......???

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

to the idiot who claims that Chabad goes on the defensive whenever R' Mendel Wechter is discussed I say this:

You bring him up whether it's relevant to the conversation or not. I wonder why... maybe your brother was one of the bochurim who went with R' Mendel and your house was one of absolute misery from then on? Why else would you have to bring him up every single time someone like Twersky is discussed?

don't you ever get tired of the same gibberish?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Nochum

talk about being petty. You take the cake with that asinine Markowitz comment.

Congrats!

Anonymous said...

The reason the Wechter story comes up is that Chabad took a guy who was by all accounts a yurei shamayim and could have done a lot of good within his community and took it all away for an intellectual show of one upmanship.

Ask any jew today and they will say Chabad is unparalled in outreach but the Satmar are the real Jews that we see in the pre war photos and closely resemble the life of 'chassidishe yidden' chabad or not before the second world war.

The Wechter story and many like it show the inferiority complex that Chabd has and that if they can't make their own people frum, let us ruin everyone else so we are not shown up....

The problem is Chabd could never take their rejection by the frum world.

Why infiltrate litvishe yeshivas with 'underground' Tanya shiurim.

Why can't people see for themselves the beauty and frumkeit of Chabad communities ??

Because Reb Mendel Futerfas said when he came to Kfar Chabad that Chabad is like drek. When spread out it makes others grow...when lumped together in one place....it stinks....

Anonymous said...

more late night gibberish, Satmar real Jews.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Mr. genius

ask the Ponovizher Rov why he went around to all the Yeshivos in Israel and took the best bochurim away to himself. Why couldn't he show them that he was the best? why steal from Lomzha and Chabad and Chevron etc.????

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

oh, and believe me, if you're breastfed hate for Chabad from grade kindergarten it's pretty difficult to have people see the beauty on their own.

Anonymous said...

that's minhag Chabad? when the velt starts weaning the kid off, they start? Just to be different? No wonder they become more dependant when they get older!

Anonymous said...

The answer re the Ponvecher Rav is that he was starting from scratch and that he openly went to these places...not by working on impressionable youth.

If an adult chooses to become Chabad through an informed decision..kol hakavod.....

Chabad is and always was an intellectual chassidus....not everyone with an interest in an area is capable of becoming the head professor.....

The problem post war is that the Rebbe decided that no other form of yiddishkeit had a right to exist...his motives purely lshem shamayim but destructive none the less....

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

The problem post war is that the Rebbe decided that no other form of yiddishkeit had a right to exist...his motives purely lshem shamayim but destructive none the less....

I can understand people having opinions about the Rebbe, as stupid as that sounds, but this psychobabble is just ridiculous.

Anonymous said...

purely lshem shamayim? How do you know? What was he thinking when they were waiving his photo in front of his face?

Anonymous said...

Tzig, it is not hard to understand.

If you consider the Rebbe the nasi and tzadik hador, he had the right to be innovative and make changes, 'chap neshamos' as in the days of the Besht etc.

If not then, we know how we was viewed.....

This is why the role of his pre-war years and the environment he grew up in is such a critical issue.

It also depends is you 'hold' that everyone has to learn chasidus chabad and whether it can be understood by the masses to the level that the Alter Rebbe desired in his own times....

This is the reason for the difference of opinion.

I think that is a fair - no political view is it not ?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

anon 11:02

I lost you there.

what are we discussing here?

Anonymous said...

The issue is whether the Rebbe did good for frummer yidden and people like , making it worth the agmas nefesh of gedoilei yisraelor should have kept his nose in Crown Heights, Chabad communities and the tinoikos shenisba after the war....

Many other leaders also were very single minded in pushing their shita but few other than Satmar and R' Shach spoke openly against manhigei yisrael.....like the Rebbe did..

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I'm sorry, but whom did the Rebbe speak against? enlighten me, please.

Anon3 said...

Completely irresponsible was Satmar’s (Kiryas Yoel) decision to hold a protest rally outside NY’s Israeli Consulate. (The protest concerned construction digs that disturbed bones that Satmar thinks are Jewish, and archeologists – not always known for their honesty or sensitivity, but they might be right this time – believe to be ancient Canaanite.)That meant that on a day that saw almost wall-to-wall condemnation of Israel, New Yorkers were treated to the sight of two protests at the symbol of the Jewish State, one by Arabs, the other by thousands of Satmar chassidim. I cannot fully process this, but will admit to feeling nothing but contempt for, and alienation from, them. It is not what I like to feel about other Yidden.So much for "{B}heimishe}" Yidden.

Anonymous said...

Does R' Twesky ever go back to visit his family ?

Did his kids relate to their grandparents ?

Does his brother (the Rebbe) come to visit him, when he visits New York ?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

yes, yes and yes.

Anonymous said...

No one is challenging that he is a heiliger yid.....just that it hurt when he left.....

Anyone who knows him can see he did not leave to lower his avoidas hashem....

Anonymous said...

Tzig,

Just out of interest, how does the Spinker Rebbe relate to you when you see him ?

Is he friendly (granted you were not a chasid of his father)....

Where do your children go to cheder ?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I sense loaded questions here

which Spinker Rebbe are you asking about?

I was around by his father too, although I may not have been a "chossid."

why do you wanna know where my kids go to cheder?

Anonymous said...

Anon 9;29
"If you would show R' Mendel Vechter what Lubavitch and Satmar look like today, I am not so sure he would not have stayed Satmar."
rav Vechter is anything but naive, he sees whats happening in both camps and he still is doing what he is doing great, hafotzas hachsidas and he is boruch hashem very matzliach, By you people calling it "Koolaid " it will not change, their are hundreds of Mevakshim that are searching for a derech emes.

Anonymous said...

Just because there are mevakshim does not mean they have found the emes.....

Lubavitcher fray out because they have been taught that every other form of yiddishkeit is lower, shvacher and half hearted.

If they don't find what they are looking for in Chabad they have been brainwashed, they will certainly not find it anywhere else.

If R' NY Twersky changed to Chabad why does he want to make sure his kids don't change back, if they think Chernobil/Rachtmastrivka is the emes ?

Aparently this is part of the indoctranation. The conversion works one way only....no one can leaves ....

Don't tell me that Chabad seeks the emes...that only works on emotionally needy people like R' Mendel who found a new fan club bigger than the one he had in his yeshivah....he didn't have the protectzia to make it all the way to the top so he went somewhere else where he would have a better chance....

Anonymous said...

I see that there are so many anonymouses ben klonymouses that I've decided to add noch and anonymouse!
Guys,
Can we, Snags,Lubob and everyone else agree on one thing at least??
Get yourself some kind of name so that the discussion can have some kind of back and forth?Please?

Gordon said...

Amazing!!!!
Hirshel actually allowing debate??
(For the record at least in the Wechter case no real room for "debate".Wechter was warned numerous times to stop brainwashing impressionable young kids specifically against their parents wishes.It had nothing to do with learning Tanya or Chasidus)

So either headquarters is getting worried about the new book and realize that "closed societies" always fail, which derech agav, Alan Nadler has a great review of in the Forward or Hirshels kool-aid is wearing off a wee bit.I mean, I guess you get tired of not thinking for yourself after a certain amount of time especially in light of some very clear madness on the part of Lubavitch.(I think we can all agree that the Meshichist agenda with the Rebbe alive "le'olom voed" and the recent radicalization of the Meshichist offshoots into total disregard of halacha and such can be called "madness",no?)
To me one of the most amazing things is how Chabad despite all odds and craziness manages to survive, although yet again we have precedent for in History vein kan mokom lehaarich

yehupitz said...

This thread is nauseating. Koolaid this koolaid that.

Barf.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

All this hate, yes, hate, spewing forth is educational, but nothing new. It's educational because it tells us that despite the fact that we think that people today are decent and well-meaning, that there are still many people here that can't get over certain issues. They're umfarginer, shlechte mentshen, they generalize about things that they have very little knowledge about and they spread lies. They make up for their insecurities by attacking others ruthlessly. You can turn around and point fingers at me, but you know that I at least have the minimal respect when I write, even for those who caused the divisiveness we see in today's Jewish world. Even for those that taught their adherents that my wine is nesech and my kids m------m.

Then again, this is nothing new; we see it very often here from the boors who scorn a Lubavitcher's learning when they do none themselves. So I'm really not surprised, but I am at the same time. A dichotomy of sorts, if you will.

I still haven't lost faith in human Jewishkind, and I know that most of you, when confronted with Lubavitch recognize it for its qualities and see the errs of their ways. Others are too full of themselves to ever see any good. More power to them. let them wallow in their misery for eternity.

Chassidus macht lichtig for those that care to see it. Those that don't can choose to live in the dark. They have no light because they have no Torah at all, no Gemoroh Tosefos either. Someone who can express himself as nastily as some of you did here about chassidus and those that have found ceaseless inspiration from it have no inspiration from any part of Torah.

Gerald said...

" I at least have the minimal respect when I write, even for those who caused the divisiveness we see in today's Jewish world. Even for those that taught their adherents that my wine is nesech and my kids m------m. "
You sound soooo respectful with this sill attack .Not.Oh, someone called your kids m.....m??So now we have a totally unfounded accusation to add to the "chulent"??Nobody called you anything or said anything, but surely not m...m, there was an argument about the best mikva, but even then it does not cause m...m, but why would you know that because you "say" Rambam?
Yehupitz,
Et tu?
You are also part of the kool-aid, though you still kept a lot of the hubris you got in Ner I.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

totally unfounded my foot. Gerald you can go on with your blissful life. I know. I was there. I heard and saw it all. Your lies won't fly here.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Gerald

you shoot yourself in the foot when you use that stupid kool aid line over and over again. You wanna say that about young impressionable 16 year olds, go right ahead, despite the fact that those kids were brainwashed from day 1 in Satmar, but you don't seem to mind that, and we all know why. You don't mind Satmar brainwash, only Lubavitch. But to say that about Yehupitz, who loves the Rebbe and his Torah from his experience l'maan Haklal is below the belt. You don't have an appreciation for Torah or for avodas HaKlal so there's no poijnt in talking to you about it. How a moron like yourself was allowed to comment here is my fault. Enjoy the cholent at Deli 52 tonight and make sure to taste the spicy arbes. I hear they go great with dumba--.

Anon3 said...

"Why infiltrate litvishe yeshivas with 'underground' Tanya shiurim.

Why can't people see for themselves the beauty and frumkeit of Chabad communities ??"
You hit the nail on the head.Why the need to have to use subterfuge to be able to teach Tanya? Is it an apikurshese sefer? Is there any ban on it by the Gedoilei Yisroel?
What do the Litveshe Roshei Hayishivos fear if what (the Roshei Hayishivos) teach is "emes".
Would they do the same if somebody came along and decided to teach Nefesh Hachaim? Is the Tanya some insidious modern day version of "The Protocols Of The Elders OF Zion R"L ? Rav S"Z Auerbach ZT"L not only allowed it to be taught in Koil Torah but encouraged it.It was taught in Torah Vedaas by Rav Heiman ZT"L himself and there are others.
There is the story of some Litveshe Rosh Hayishiva whose name will not be mentioned here,who caught two bochurim who were doing some "extracurricular" reading under there shtenders.One was reading a NY Times, the other,gasp, a Tanya.The RY turns to the chutzpinak that was learning Tanys and says "Your chaver thats reading the NYT is at the least reading the truth (ah zein och un vei) and you'r learning divrei sheker!!!!

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Gerald

you can delete the names you called Anon3 and rewrite the comment or you can find another place to spew your trash.

Anonymous said...

anon3, R' Wolfson has a sefer on tanya based on his shiurim in it at Tora Vodaas.

Arthur said...

Apparently the "Kool Aid Kid", AKA as "Gerald",must be a major stock holder in the Kool Aid Corp. Alternatively he probably has imbibed to much of the stuff himself.

Clean Mikvah said...

yeh, R. Wolfson's s-i-l is big into Tanya (and kideishah). he is the anti-Tzi Meir with the intellectual twist and without the outward display of emtions. His crowd is older and more marture (and stable).

davening by him, I believe, is much longer than by Tzvi Meir. Yet, I think Tzvi Meir actualy affects more people positively - makes a bigger roshem - whether you like it or not.

Tzvi Meir wouldn't make an anti "Yotzey Lita" remark. The other fellow (forgot his name) would and had.

Tziki kedera said...

Anon 3....bamot were very much loved in the time of the avot,when they were used for a.zara they became disgusting...maybe canal on tanya..

Anonymous said...

Point 1 did nachaman yosef make any shiduchim for his children with non chabad

Point 2 can any body tell me why the rebbe shiped off mendel vechter to kiryat malach or some shvartz yahr place in israel why did he not send him to Bnei Brak or Yerushalaim where he could be mekarev thousands of heilger yidsher neshomos(litvacks Gerres Vishnitzer Belzers stam yerushalmi s) to chabad


PLEASE CAN SOME ANWSER MY KASHA

Anonymous said...

Anon,
Point #2
The Rebbe was definitly a baal ruach hakodesh and he reliazed that Reb Mendel Vechter neshoma and Guf has to reside in Kiryat Malachi and also that he has to traveling every day on this roads, If you dont believe in the Rebbes Ruaxch hakodesh you are a apikoras(source Shu't Divrie Chaim)

Point #1
Why does it matter to you, will it help you in your Yiras Shomaim? or getting a better Mortgage rate from a bank?

Anonymous said...

Gordon
"So either headquarters is getting worried about the new book "
Headquarters(Krinsky) is very very worried, actualy Rabbi Krinsky sat shiva twice in 1 moth, Headquarter in on a forclosure list,check it out

Anonymous said...

Anon,
"Lubavitcher fray out because they have been taught that every other form of yiddishkeit is lower, shvacher and half hearted. "
is their still minyan left in 770 or Kfar Chabad who is left their to pay for the air conditioner bills?
Your greatly appreciated analysys, is your own conclusion or you stole it from AJ Twerskies columm in Hamodia?
Btw,
why do kids in lakewood Fray out? Because they feel they were mislead by Reb Shimon Shkop chidushim in Sharie Yosher.

Anonymous said...

"Why can't people see for themselves the beauty and frumkeit of Chabad communities ??""


Why are you forcing people to see "beauty"?
Why don't you allow boys from your kas see the beauty of non Lubob yeshivas,eh?
Big Tawker.

Gerald said...

And...
Let me tell you about the foresight" of great people.
See, your group has a Meshichist problem on your hands.Even an "esteemed" member of The Meshichists,Gedalya Akselrod has "ruled" that some meshichist harbor "apikorsishe" ideas.What do you say about that,Arthur,eh?
Gedolei Yisroel did not want unqualified teachers teaching "hilchos deois" on the sly, and we saw how rabbinic careers of budding young scholars on the rocks from being "taught" Tanya by unqualified "rabbis".Now they are drunkards hanging around 770, waving yellow flags, trying to convince everybody to say Yechi Hamelech.

Gerald said...

And Tzig,
I did not even call Arthur any gemeineh name, but you chapped on a mild word to censor a post you did not like.
BUT!!!
You should have told Arthur himself that R'Shlomo Heiman never taught Tanya in Tora Vodaas, especially since your claim to fame in Lubob is alz a Chabadsker" vous kehn a bissel veygen di menagdem in peylisher".
Arthur always claims to be a mayven on T.V because of his family connection

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

It's hard enough moderating, I need to be the corrector here too?

most of it is done via blackberry, where typing is very tedious and time consuming. I figured you wouldn't let him get away with that "lie."

Anonymous said...

Whatever,
Hey, do you consider implying that R'Aharon K was a murderer offering "minimal respect"?(you did not back off even when the whole lubob blood libel was disproven,Even Yankee Raichik, fed on this nonsense realized it was inapropriate,)
If you do, you are the typical Kool-Aider!
People who suffer from the stokholm syndrome never realize how partisan and subjective they have become,hence the mental evaluation that needs psychiatric intervention.
Besides for that I"m sure you are a jolly good fellow

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I implied no such thing

all I said was he excluded bachurim from Chabad from getting Vaad Hatzoloh money, hence putting them in grave danger. A bachur died. Others married Mirrer Bachurim to increase their chances of living respectfully

draw your own conclusion

Gerald said...

All those big Lubob Tawkers and apologists,Tzig,Yehupitz et all.
Would you like that your kids to be exposed to charismatic meshichists such as Ginsberg the Kever Yosef guy,on the sly,AGAINST the wishes of hanholas hayeshiva?Coming back, frothing at the mouth with meshichist hats,lapels and kool-aid?
I"m sure you have nothing against somebody teaching the Rebbes Sichos,right??

Gerald said...

"draw your own conclusion"

Had you not drunk the awful brew, you would have pointed out that the one bochur that died, was a sickly individual from before the war.You would have also pointed out that the Mirrer lost a few bochurim too.

So my conclusions about you are that you are a person who is unable to *think* objectively when it comes to Chabad and their lies.
If you don't realize that Mendel Wechter did a most terrible avla by misleading parents and causing a horrible war between Chabad and Satmar it again proves that you are only able to hear one side of a story, your own teams one!

Gerald said...

Tzig,
You sitting in Monsey think you can have your cake and eat it to.
Nice normal shul (by Lubavitch standards at least)A rov who at least can read Tehillim without mistakes, a Sgan Ruv, who actually speaks fluent Yiddish and a sprinkling of normal Chabadskers who are in Monsey BECAUSE they are trying to get away from the crazies in Crown Heights.
Wait till the Meshichists start brainwashing your kids when you send them off to sleepaway camps and yeshivas and you get the Meshichist breakoff and machloikes ala Chicago and everywhere else

Anonymous said...

Gerald



"Even an "esteemed" member of The Meshichists,Gedalya Akselrod has "ruled" that some meshichist harbor "apikorsishe" ideas.What do you say about that,Arthur,eh?"
The Yeshiva world just recently was forced to ostracize Lieb Troper the spokesman for the xtreme right wing Yeshiva world shita on Gieres lead the by the non conformist right winger Rav Wachtfogel as a molester,he was the fighter for Kedushas am Yisroel, so what happened now ?is the shita of 100% stringent Gieres wrong? Did Rav Wachtfogel change his mind? or the halacha and emuna does not change because a few people that were overwhelmed by their animal instincts? as chazal say Veci Yevad Holam Mipnie Hashotim? Did rabbi Wienberg of Aish change his strategy when his talented son the genius, animal instincts were disclosed up front and center? He didn't change 1 iota since he was convinced that he is doing the right thing. obviously the same is with every jew that believes with the full Emes in his Emuna or Halacha.

I like the way you make people "esteem" whe it seves your "great" argument,

Anonymous said...

Gerald
"You should have told Arthur himself that R'Shlomo Heiman never taught Tanya in Tora Vodaas,"
I am not Arthurs spokesman but he probably meant Rav Mendlowits taught tanya in TV when Rav Hieman was there.
and let me add that so did rav Dessler give Tanya shiurim in Beis Midrash Elyon when he visited the states.

Joe said...

No, it was Kalmonovitz, who, based on your claim, "excluded" the Chabad buchorim. His initial responsibility was to his own buchorim, obviously.

Many of the Kletzkers joined the Mir.

The Chabad buchorim were offered to join the Mir but they refused. I guess it's better to put yourself in danger then to have a chshash of turning into a Snag.

You don't know if the other Chasidishe yeshivos/buchorim were supported by the Vaad money, do you.

The Vaad primarily was made to save bney Torah, it is a Halachik consideration based on Shulchan Urach. There were a large segments of Mirrers that were gedoley olam (and much older than the Lubavitcher buchorim) and deserved to get food first [Besides for the obvious fact that it was their Rosh in America, who raised the money, while the Rebbe was in the Navy yard]. They were the elite of the yeshiva world.

It was considered a miracle that no Mirrer died (Reb Henoch Fishman and Reb Leib Bakst both got tuberculosus and almost didn't make it). If they would have died then, all of your taynos go out the window. They were a hairsbreath away from misah, and somehow made it.

Anonymous said...

Gordon
"although yet again we have precedent for in History vein kan mokom lehaarich"
your statement gives me sleepless nights, so please do all of us a favor and provide the details and graphics The Tzig will give you the space

Anon3 said...

"
"You should have told Arthur himself that R'Shlomo Heiman never taught Tanya in Tora Vodaas, especially since your claim to fame in Lubob is alz a Chabadsker" vous kehn a bissel veygen di menagdem in peylisher"
I suggest that you take a gander at the UOJ blog whose owners claim to fame is that he is a grandson of the above named and he states clearly,more then once, that his grandfather taught Tanya in YTV.
Go quibble with him.

Arthur said...

"Arthur always claims to be a mayven on T.V because of his family connection"
Can you please validate your above assertion on my so called "claim to be a maven on TV" but do so before you drink your next shot of "Kool Aid".I never realized it's potency till you started posting on this blog.

Gerald said...

Arthur the anon3,
R'Shraga Feivel Mendelowitz taught Tanya not R'Shlomo Heiman.

Anon2:45 and 2:49,
You show that your level of understanding is quite weak.
My point against teaching Tanya was against teaching Tanya on the sly with unqualified teachers against the hanhola of the yeshiva and I myself brought examples in a post Tzig censored of Telz lita where Tanya was studied.
Additionally you are mixing up Weinbergs, which is no big deal, but shows you know nothing about anything out of Lubavitch.
Also the esteemed was in quotation marks for a reason,genius!

Arthur said...

Pardon my error.It was Rav Mendelovits.It must be the "Kool Aid".That stuff is really potent.

Gerald said...

Arthur,
Apologies accepted.

Anon3 said...

"Additionally you are mixing up Weinbergs, which is no big deal, but shows you know nothing about anything out of Lubavitch.
Also the esteemed was in quotation marks for a reason,genius!"

Boy!Your'e really inebriated with "Kool Aid".I said something about Wineberg???? In any case the Wineberg mentioned by some other poster in error is the son of the late Rosh Hayishiva in Baltimore.
As far is being a "Genius",the only one that claims to be the "genius" know it of all and sundry, is yourself.The rest of us are a bunch "ignorant boors" who have no knowledge of what transpires both in Lubavitch and outside.
Somehow I get the feeling that you must be a "Talmid Muvhok" of the Goebbels school of thought.Such unbridled hatred.By any chance were you a correspondent for the "Shturmer"?
I would strongly suggest that you get of the "Kool Aid" before it addles your brain permanently,or perhaps it's done so already.

Gerald said...

Anon3
I was talking to the anonymous guy in that part of the message,don't you get it?
Joe,
Though you are fighting the good fight, truth is paramount.Some Mirrer succumbed to desease in Shanghai.Their names are mentioned in the newish book which came out about the miracle in Shanghai about .One of the boys name was Arbuz and a sefer zikoron was printed leiluy nishmoso in Shanghai.

Gerald said...

Ok Chevreh,
Early shabbes to make and a rebbitzen to placate by getting off the computer.
A GOOD SHABBOS TO ALL, even to the the people who think I "hate".
Remember 70 years ago no German checked if you were a Chused a Snag or a Sephardy a Yid was good enough.
Next week we can continue the debate

PSOL said...

HT wrote:

"Chassidus macht lichtig for those that care to see it. Those that don't can choose to live in the dark. They have no light because they have no Torah at all, no Gemoroh Tosefos either. "

Congratulations, you have just de-legitimised 99% of yidden. That is simply the most vile thing you have ever written.

Yehuda said...

"Congratulations, you have just de-legitimised 99% of yidden."

The problem with many in Chabad is that they consider and delegitmaze as you say 99% of Jews,after all Chochma, Bina, Vodaas are the top sefiros, everyone else is on a much lower level.Additionally as another Lubavitcher pointed out here, one has to be mekasher yidden with the Nosi Hador, and obviously that is the nosi of Lubavitch.So those Jews who have not "accepted" malchus are barely legitimate
Frei yidden at least can be redeemed in Chabad eyes by becoming Lubavitchers, frum yidden on the other hand, who will probably never see the "light" are really third rate Jews.Tzig, that did see the "light" is one of the few "lucky " ones.His blog is an example vee lichtig bebben tanya macht a mentsche'n

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

sorry, PSOL.
you should hook up with the Gaza flotilla people.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Yehuda can do the PR, maybe file a report for al-Jazeera.

Anonymous said...

Yehuda,
Lubavich is not a credit rating business, jews are not labeled and not rated in Chabad the tent is huge, this is the work of media outlets as the Der Yid, Yated etc...

Yehuda said...

"Lubavich is not a credit rating business."

Anon3:13pm

Who famously said "Inzereh zibiris iz beser fin zeyer idis"?And is that not a "credit rating"?

Tzig,
You were the one that said that if one does not learn "chasidus" they are in the dark.Talk about Al-Jazeera!
Hey, if your "light" produces lowlives like the owner of the blogand his ilk, we probably have a different understanding of "light".
Btw, did you say you daily portion of Rambam I mean tehillim?

Yehuda said...

The Rebbe would very often used the term חושך כפול ומכופל I think that would correctly describe YOUR LIGHT.A true descripion of the polneh ameratzim the Chochmo .bino vo'daas churn out

PSOL said...

Wait a second.

You said unequivocally that non-chasidim live in the dark and have no torah, and when I call you out on that, you say I belong with the anti-semites, Jew killers and Hamas supporters?

Really?

This is a good opportunity for you to backtrack.

Anonymous said...

"A bachur died. Others married Mirrer Bachurim to increase their chances of living respectfully"

gay marrige?

Twistelton-Twistelton said...

"The Chabad buchorim were offered to join the Mir but they refused. I guess it's better to put yourself in danger then to have a chshash of turning into a Snag."

I guess they didn't think it was a danger to forgo Vaad Hatzalos money.

I seem to recall that Frank Riggs book claims (and this may be common knowlege) that the fereidiker Rebbe was actively trying to undermine Vaad hatzolah (becuase they worked with Reform jews). Which might explain why Vaad hatzolah was not intrested in giving money to Chabad bochurim

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

PSOL et al

What I said was that those who knowingly choose to ignore Toras Chassidus have no lichtigkeit in their GeFeS either

Anonymous said...

I don't think there is anything disrepectful so please post in full....

Please, to get back to R' NY Twersky.

Firstly, he was never meant to be as great as his brother who died or the current Rebbe.

I think Chabad was lucky that Barry Gurary did not turn out to be a major Chabad Chasid and Tzadik let me explain why.....It would have meant a crisis for Chabad as I don't feel the Rebbe would have wanted him to take over....it would ruin his everlasting 'dor shvii' concept...

Secondly, do you want to know why Satmar felt after R' Mendel Vechter and Rachtmastrivka feels ?


Reb Tzig, please answer honestly how Chabad would react if the Rebbe had a ben yachid, who was an unbelievable iluy, at 20 years old was more knowledgeable in toras chabad than R' Yoel Kahn, Reb Mendel Vechter and the like... was a beautiful baal darshen, ohev labriyus and highly charasmatic...with everyone expecting him to take over...then suddenly one day, altough respecting his parents tells them and the chassidim he is going to become a Gerrer chasid because of their 'Kedusha' or even shaves his beard and moves to Lakewood because he wants to focus on learning nigle, to become a Litvak and stops learning chassidus but marries into a misnagdish family becomes anbelievable goan and marbitz torah, but turns his back on Chabad and speaks against mivtzoim as bitul torah.

How would Chbad react, especially the hot heads ?

Now let us imagine that it was result of being specifically targetted in a way to take the Rebbe's son (in our mashul) away from the derech Chabad in a way that he respectfully disagrees with everything his father the Rebbe had taught.

Now what do you say ?
Please can I have an honest response ?

Anonymous said...

Tzig,

Has Chabad ever lost one if its 'big names' to anyone else ?

My opinion is that it has nothing to do with toras chabad but more to do with the Rebbe being the only leader to care about klal yisrael rather than his own little group alone....

Anonymous said...

How would R NY Twersky feel if he knew that 50 years later he would be likened and compared to the talmidim of Shabtai Tzvi.

In his times, they held of him just like today's chassidim hold of the Rebbe.

benjy said...

"Now what do you say ?
Please can I have an honest response ?"

You are looking for an honest response from a kool-aider like Hirshel???
Are you bonkers??

Anon3 said...

"Now let us imagine that it was result of being specifically targetted in a way to take the Rebbe's son (in our mashul) away from the derech Chabad in a way that he respectfully disagrees with everything his father the Rebbe had taught"
There have been cases like that ,avol ain kan mokom lehaarich.

Anonymous said...

you thought that was uncalled for? I am surprised.

Salute

PSOL said...

HT: "What I said was that those who knowingly choose to ignore Toras Chassidus have no lichtigkeit in their GeFeS either"

Even allowing for this explanation (which incidentally is also unsatisfactory - What of the torah of the Rambam, the Gaon, R' Akiva Eiger et al?), what about your suggestion that because I don't agree that a non-chosid's torah has merit I should join the terrorists in the flotilla?

Still stand by that remark?

Anonymous said...

Tzig please clarrify the Chabad position...

Do you as a Chabadnik consider your form of yiddishkeit as supreme and no other form can reach the same level in avodas hashem - yes or no???

RLFox said...

Hi Tzig,
I have searched high and low for a decent picture of the inside of the Mittler Rebbe's ohel, preferably a clear one of the matzieva. I was there Shavuos time a few years ago and don't remember anything about the inside. Maybe you could get a hold of a picture or two...

Proud Vohliner Chusid said...

His son RDM came back all the way to his heilige elter fater the rabbe shlita in b.p. , his children are in the mosdos and were the lvush of their zaides

Proud Vohliner Chusid said...

Since when does sakmar have a saying about chasidus

Proud Vohliner Chusid said...

I know him personaly and remember him going up to his fathers tzion asking mechila after the shiva

Proud Vohliner Chusid said...

all of them I recognise from rachmistrivka

Proud Vohliner Chusid said...

Magi''sh

Proud Vohliner Chusid said...

Lies bluff and u know it

Anonymous said...

All of you above, be ashamed, then you y’all go crying when there’s a holocaust and they throw you all in the oven without discriminating against this or that kind within. It’s because if the internal rivalry and hate. No diff then the Arabs.