an elderly Rov sitting with his bekishe, hat and Rezhvulke at the protest in Washington today. (is it the Kashauer?)
Politics makes for strange bedfellows, we know that, but what you may not know is how politics can take an elderly man, many elderly men, rather, and dress them in dark and heavy coats and overcoats, drive them four hours in what may be uncomfortable means of transportation, and have them sit for hours in oppressive, record-setting, 100+ degree heat for hours. All for what? I'm not here to belittle the cause, only the means by which they show for what they came. In fairness to the faction of Satmar that organized the protest they did organize this weeks ago and did cancel the original one planned for around the time of the Flotilla incident in the Holy Land. I also realize that they're using decades-old tactics here, where they think that they "embarass" the Israeli Gov't by protesting against them displaying all the tired and used signs and the token English language speech. Today protests against Israeli politicians are not as rare as they were back in the 60's and 70's, when Israel was somewhat of a holy cow. I'm dispensing free advice to my Satmar brothers here. It's not worth risking the lives of Holocaust survivors just to have a few hundred people at an unnoticed rally when nobody can bear being outside in the heat. Having said that putting older gentlemen in harm's way by making them sit in that opressive heat is definitely not worth anything - unless it's all about politics and showing the "other side" - the Aron faction.
The kevorim battle rages on, and the Satmorim see themselves as the messenger of the "Yahadus HaChareidis" in Eretz Yisroel. They plan on continuing their mission of "embarassing" by placing ads in the D.C. papers, just like they did in New York a while back. We call this NK Lite. All the dirty deeds minus the visits to Teheran and Damascus. Obviously the fight to prevent desecration of graves needs to continue, but it needs to be limited to the mission at hand, not to the existence of the State, which Satmar usually does not limit it to. It's about time the rest of us strike back. No, we're not talking boycott again, we're talking using the media to condemn them - or at least refute what they say in the name of "Torah True Jewry" - and gathering petitions in support of the host country where 5 million of our brethren live and prosper, spiritually that is. They prosper in Torah like never before - and yes, we know that they may not have our best interest in mind, the Zionists, but that is the fact, Israel is the gretest place of learning ever. Can we do that for their sake instead of sitting back and grumbling every time we see and hear the zealots talk about the "Zionists?" Can we stand up and put aside our differences and be proud of the fact that we care about the security of Israel no matter what we think about the Medinah?
36 comments:
after seeing all the pictures and video's I don't see more than 400 people. 500 most.
you have to understand,. the zalos (Reb Zalman's group) had no choice but protest in DC. since his older brother Reb Aharon called for a protest himself a month ago and the turn out was about 10,000
so this is not about Kevurim. this is about Reb Zalmon shoing power that he has more people than his brother.
The Stars and Stripes prominently displayed in that picture begs the question; how many of these people know the key phrases of the Declaration of Independence and what they mean? Likewise, how many know what the Constitution says or the Bill of Rights? Red-white-and-blue patriotism is easy but being a true, functional American citizen is a lot more complicated.
Tzigeleh or anybody else.
Isn't the current Kashe Rebbe much younger than the man in the photo? Who wrote Yisa Bruchoh, the Rebbe who just passed away a couple of years ago?
...also, how many of the flag-wavers are sucking "מופת" from the Government while hiding their cash income from the taxman?
1:11
I think the current Kashauer looks a lot older than his true age.
1:28, please stick to the issue at hand.
"1:28, please stick to the issue at hand."
I think my question is very much related to the issue at hand. The picture you chose at the lead of this posting has Old Glory in the foreground which conjures up conscious and sub-conscious links to American citizenship, civic pride and responsibility and all the implied obligations thereto. Meanwhile, you know fully well the prevalence of "programmers" in our communities who hide their income (and have no Bushah about it) in order to qualify for benefits. So, you picture, however unintentionally, has juxtaposed an emotional appeal to patriotic sentimentality with a community harboring a disturbing number of scofflaws! As an American who takes great pride in my country and is greatly concerned for its wellbeing I am not amused. As a Jew who tries to do HaYashar ve HaTov I am revolted by the explicit and implicit dishonesty!
don't be confused by the flag waving at the protests.
This dates back to the 50s when they would try and show their patriotism and at the same disdain for Israel, claiming that because of Dina DeMalchusa you need to love America and not force their hand re: Israel. Today they do it because of "minhag Avoiseynu."
It is the Kashoer Rov of Monsey, he his a professional anti establishment trouble maker, just look at his sefer Midor Doir,Hirshel should scan periodicaly parts of it, to amuse the crowd. Yiso Berocha is a younger brother, The Kasau (Bloom)brothers were despised in Satmar as long as Reb Yoel and Lipa Friedman were at the helm in Satmar, It all changed after their passing on. Reb Moshe Tietelbaum was too a weak manhig to fight off the barbarians at the gate.So the extreme elements started to circle around them.And now they are the front runner of the Zali crowd.
Oi vey
what about the shmiras einiyem, the Shiksa flesh that is exposed in the 100 degree heats in the DC streets. Who takes the responsibility for the bad thoughts that this will trickle on our youngsters. Are the 3 oats a bigger issur then Veloi Susiri Achrie Einiechem. I assume they were constantly saying the Segula of the Tzetel Kotan (7) to say... Oy vey Mir..
1 of the satmar anti Israel arguments is, that Zhabotinskies German boycott organized in the USA, infuriated the Nazis, If their is a kernel of truth to their side of the debate, so what gives them the right to jeopardize the safety of the 6 million Am Hayoshev Betzion? They are Noisan Yad LePoshim the Arab crowds, that are ready to G-D forbid push all the Jews in to the Mediterranean. What will they answer at Beis Din Shel Mailo if we will verify that some jewish blood is on their hands? is the inyan of showing your upstate brother that you are also on the map that crucial?, that we can sacrifice Jewish Blood?
Since they are all Shomrei Torah U'Mitzvos and huge Kanayim, when are they going to perform the Mitzvah of Pidyon Shvuyim and march on behalf of Gilad Shalit?
I think they are all hypocrites. Hope they prove me wrong.
Feh.
Tzig > Have you ever read DEr Rebbe (yes not di Rebbe) und Der Satan which among other items details the strident criticism directed against the Satamr rebbe for demonstarations aginst israel by none other than the posek hador Rav Yosef Eliyahu Henkin a non Zionist but a warm Yid.
R. henkin did not attack the Satmar shittah because of hot weather but because these people are rodef Klal israel. Hey Tzig how would you feel if the Pishtinover chassidim and their nasi organized a demonstartion aginst Sholom Mordecai ben Reizel in support of the 27 year sentence with US flags and all. You and your chug would be very upset and your criticism wuld be a lot hotter than what youw write about this demo against 6 million Jews.
Why not a boycott of CRC meats ? Their rabbonim should be responsible for their actins . they are big boys.If such a program was good enough for the Nasi hador and for the hundreth time we all heard the rebbe screaming bechol meodo venafsho LO mehem velo Mahamonom and the rebbe was not talking about the labor Party in israel he was not speaking about the RCA rabbis he was not talking about Mizrachi , HE WAS TALKING ABOUT THE EXACT SAME CHEVRA WHO DEMONSTRATED IN DC. Yes Chabad is great in copying the rebbe's shirt bachurim walk about with the rebbe's socks but his shittah about Satmar that you wish to do away with , why because they support SM ben Reizel ? Is that it ?
Hirschel,
I'm amused by your sense of humour...
In the same day you bashed the Lakewood R"Y and called the Lakewood lifestyle "BLUFF" you go on and praise that same kind of lifestyle in ארץ ישראל.
Absurd, no?
Btw. I just didn't understand what 'really' is bothering you, don't tell me you're concerned for the elderly rav....
And if those tactics don't work, stop educating those satmorim, they become smarter and start demonstrating in more effective ways hereby achieving their goal, which doesn't really get along with the ארץ ישראל השלמה ideology...
In my humble opinion you were just bothered by the huge attendance at a demonstration which represents an opinion you don't respect.
I can appreciate that reaction though.
I never praised the lifestyle, I praised the funding of Yeshivos and Kolelim by the Gov't.
What bothers me is how they make us all look bad. And all because of what?!
I'm very concerned, FYI. It's bad enough to watch the old men in BP with the 20 pound G&G suits. They need to sit out in the heat with the Rezhvulke? Rachmunis!
"huge attendance," you say? puh-leez. They have more people by a Chimesh Seedeh in BP.
Hirschel,
Not that the amount of people changes anything; but you obviously didn't see any prime time pictures of the gathering.
If you're interested you can find those pictures at VIN, but only. If you're. Interested, for all I care you can continue living in denial בת היענה style.
That much for the attendance...
Schneur
M'hut shayn geredt merrere mohl that boycotts don't work. Or at least they haven't in the past. People like their CRC bakeries in Flatbush and the 5Towns, and their Vineland chicken too, I guess.
Look what happens when Lubavitchers today maintain the boycott over the Vechter incident. They're called haters and ingrates!
The name is Sholom Mordche ben RIVKEH, FYI.
so they had a few thousand people. big deal.
Kashau Rav is not in any way affiliated with neither of the Satmars, although he does join forces with them at select issues, this obviously is one of those.
Regarding the numbers....I have been in 770 when full at farbrengens and there were a lot less people than in the pictures of this post.
If this was 5,000 then 770 in its 'hey day' would fit no more than 2,500-3,000 people max.
If that crowd was only 4-5,000 how can you guys claim the Rebbe had 10,000 davening in 770 for hailiger teig, even with the 'washing machine' (you could add a dryer and sink and you wouldn't come near ...) ?
Scheneur
How did I know you would reference that book and the quote from the Rebbe. (You forgot, this time, to say that that author had such a rich Yiddish...)
so israel supports torah,
have you forgotten emmanuel already? israel persecutes the religous. your arguments are lame and babyish.
I think the CRC boycott was before the Vechter incident iirc.It was after the fight after tahalucha in Williamsburg.Korf and Vechter were a couple of years later
Btw,Kashau and Satmar were shtark tzikrigt, and The old Kashauer had a big problem with cheylev in their meat, plus he supported bnei yoel iirc
Everyone get over the Emanuel story.
It is the chareidims fault...they don't work, great percentage left yeshiva/kollel long ago and live off welfare, even Satmar & Toldos Aharon (aparently it is only a problem if mosdoch hachinuch take money from the medina).
Then after being rude to all the frayers at every encounter from bus stop, to post office to any where else....
Telling the people who fund their lifestyle how to live their lives....
Then when they get told what to do.....they cry.....Slonim loves it, now they will get money from both the zionists and non zionists they have dramatically increased their funding base....
So how does this relate to Satmar ?
Ask any frayer or modern orthodox how they are treated by chassidim, unless receipients of hachnosas orchim or bikur choilim (you gota give credit when due)....how they are treated by chareidim...until they go to their not so frum brothers for money.....
YOU CAN'T HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT TOO....you want self determination....you gota self fund or at least show hakoras hatov and respect for those who enable your lifestyle....
You don't like the medina ? Pay for your own separate buses, health system, hospitals, schools and police/army to protect you when the arabs come to steal or kill you.....
OR TRUST IN HASHEM AND REFUSE ANY HELP FROM THOSE LESS FRUM THAN YOU !!!!!!
Hershel writes: "Look what happens when Lubavitchers today maintain the boycott over the Vechter incident. They're called haters and ingrates!"
Do you want to imply that the boycott then was an act of ahavas yisroel
The boycott was started in response to the Vodislover rav and the CRC criticism of Israeli actions in Entebee and attacking the rebbe for saying it was a nes.I know that the boycott won"t come from CH , that comunity is much too interested in Basil or fund raising or but maybe the MO community would teach these people a lesson. How about a demo of 5oo MO school kids in front of the main Satamr Bm in Wiliamsburg. After all the US their homeland is a free country. I wonder how the Satamr Pr people would react to a demo in Wiliamsburg by a large Mo contingent... probably with dirty diapers and all.
Scneuer! your boycott /demo wont happen because deep down they know that the satmer rav was right
Anon 9;08
I will give it to you, that 770 farbrengens had barely minyan and they had a 100,000 by the protest, it all does not take away that they have a din rodef and it was not leshem shomayim, it was all to show for the Monroe brother, Proof that the Kashuer rov came, if the Leshem shomaim was burning deep down in him, why didn"t he go to the protest weeks ago,the answer is simple, Did Pinchas ben Elozer wait weeks to attack Zimri??/he hates more Aron Titelbaum then the Archeologist's in Yaffo.Why dont the world see the obvious is beyond me.
Schneur
"but maybe the MO community would teach these people a lesson. "
the Mo community is too busy to make chabad in to the new Apikorsim of our generation, they(Berger&his cronies) are bleeding how come people still use their shechita,
Kalman
the zali faction try to portray that all the Siget/ Satmar Rebbes Z"l sins were Mfg, by the brother of upstate,
Yep, I think it is important that todays Chabadniks continue the hatred and attacks ofor issues that happened 30 years ago. That would show true ahavas yisroel.
And Schneur, you come up with this nasty boycott idea every few months. Feggit it. The average Jew - even if he disagrees with satmar - doesn't have the type of hatred that you carry and in any case will not give up his meat, milk or indeed any food to show support for a medineh that abuses the kevorim of our ancestors and then brutally bashes in the heads of those who protest against this.
So what have you Schneur and you Tzig done to try and stop chilul kevorim? Please tell us. Indeed what about Chabad in Israel? How come they don't give a damn about this?
Why is this only a Satmar "thing"?
XYZ
"buses the kevorim of our ancestors "
I am not sure that every bone in Israel is our ancestors? the bones at Miron were immediately paskened as no problem by some Dayan of the Eida, because the rebbe of TA *and the Eida need him for his huge kehila)had to make his big Rashbi show, but a ER in Ashkelon will never find a heter, u think that all klal yisroel are donkeys?
XYZ
"hatred and attacks ofor issues that happened 30 years ago."
where do u see Chabad rehashing old 30 year hatred?
All you chasidics fighting all the time makes me sick!!
Anonymous July 7th 1:28 and 1:59 :
Unfortunately for your rhetoric, you've chosen an inappropriate target here. The Kashau Rebbe (pictured) is famous for his deep understanding of many "veltishe" topics, from economics, to mathematics, to American political history. I know a professional mathematician who has discussed quantum physics, topology, the origin of the decimal notation system, and other topics with the Rebbe on several occasions. Partially because of his familiarity with various facets of American law, the Rebbe was selected as an emissary from many kehillas to defend the legality of metzitza b'peh with Michael Bloomberg. So your presumption of ignorance is far off the mark. The moral indignation also is misguided. The Rebbe's brother, the Rosh Yeshiva in Bedford Hills, speaks strongly against common "heimishe" practices such as returning appliances for refunds when you know you can get away with it despite not literally being entitled to the money. The "anti-establishment" (Anonymous 2:18) tenor in Kashau is largely of this sort--an unwillingness to be complacent with corruption, an uncommon sensitivity to chillul Hashem, a vision of all Yidden standing before Beis Din shel Maaleh all the time. It's not an easy standard to be held to, but it is largely unassailable on grounds of hypocrisy, ignorance, or corruption.
Incidentally, the Rebbe prefers that he not be photographed and can even be seen to shield his face in this image. It would be respectful to remove it from the site.
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