Friday, March 11, 2016

the Mishna Berurah is for Ameratzim?!

Hirshel: 

 Reb Moshe Feinstein is quoted in the 2nd volume Mesoras Moshe as having told someone (maybe Vohlhandler) that wanted to do a MB on יורה דעה that the Chofetz Chaim worked with a team of people on his sefer, there not too many decisions, he's usually machmir, unless he has a big group of achronim  that say lekulah, then he's meykil. Aaaand it was done for ameratzim. Or Am HaAratzos, as he calls them. Now I see why he went first to Poland. He went there to sell it to the chasidim, because there he saw a big concentration of am aratzim. In Lita every Baal Agola was a boki beShas, so he had no baalonim. As the guy in Yeshurun writes, that he put in the Geraz (Reb Schneur Zalman) 400 times, (as raietport calls him) to sell it in Poland by the chasidim. Everyone is up in arms with this quote. Everyone is mad at the Tendlers, not that they didn't have reason until now; they are killing the messenger... it's easier that way. No need to question Reb Moshe, it's the darn Tendlers. (Page 2 is a bit unclear, but the relevant parts are there to see...)



22 comments:

1800 Moche said...

we need reb chaim kanievsky to do a Machoe...

first responder said...

birshel, to your generation it's news but it wasn't so even here in NY where I grew up, my father from Hungary and my rebbe from Romania, belonged to different kind if dynasties, yet had the same opinion on the MB z"l both emphasized the learning of the שולחן ערוך ונושאי כליו only as the source of learning, an not MB not at home or in school, I'm surprised of RMF clear daas on it, if it's legit.

Tzamra said...

Volhendler wouldn't have went to reb moshe that it's gonna be mashpia on the oilam to learn the mesechtois. That had to be a litvak!
P.S. See Mavoi to oiz vehudder m"b that the chofetz chayim davened halevai he should be zoiche that he- or someone else- should be able to write a m"b on Y.D.

Anonymous said...

In poland there were more bo'ki'ei Bo'shas then in Lita. not so in hungary, but in poland a Ba'al ha'Bos knew how to learn.

סאראפקאווער אייניקיל said...

עיין בשו"ת דברי חיים ח"ב יו"ד סי' מ"ז, שמסביר שם החילוקים בדרך הלימוד של ליטא אונגארן ופולין, והעיקר הלימוד תהי' בש"ס ופוסקים, ובש"ע ונושאי כלים, בפשטי הלכות ולא מפלפלים בהבלים.. ולאו המנהג לחדש חידושים רק גדול הדור, או צורבא מרבנן הראוי להיות גדול ..עיי"ש

עיין בספה"ק יושר דברי אמת, מתלמידי המגיד, שמתגנה דרך הלימוד "שלהם" ואינו לומדים רק מצות אנשים מלומדה למען יחכמו, ועיקר הוא התפלה בדביקות קודם הלימוד ו"הם" מזלזלין בתפלה.. עיי"ש אות ח

עיין ויוא"מ מאמר ג' סי' ל"ו, ולא כאותן המבלים כל ימיהם בסברות כרסיות שא"א לבוא בזה לידי בירור הלכה, ומהפכין אח"כ דא"ח אבל צריך ללמוד הש"ע עם הנו"כ המאירים העיניים

Koloshitzer chusid said...

"עיין ויוא"מ מאמר ג' סי' ל"ו, ולא כאותן המבלים כל ימיהם בסברות כרסיות שא"א לבוא בזה לידי בירור הלכה, ומהפכין אח"כ דא"ח אבל צריך ללמוד הש"ע עם הנו"כ המאירים העיניים"
whom did he have in mind? Brisk? Lakewood?
the Lithuanians produced very good poskim, Reb Shloma Zalmen, Reb Moshe, Reb Nisen Karelitz....

ליטוואק פון בודאפעסט said...

SHas did not have a passport, so he had trouble crossing borders, so he stayed in Poland where every baaleboss knew Shas!

Stop being לן בבית הקברותniks. Eastern Europe is gone. Torah is only in New Jersey, only in Morristown and only in one street in Morristown.

ליטוואק פון בודאפעסט said...

The desperate need of some to discredit the Mishna Berura is chizuk for all of us. They believe that HoRav Shach is the same as the Chofetz Chaim. Us Litvaks can appreciate the sentiment, although we would not say such a thing ourselves. Rav Shach was a great man, just not the CC.

Mishkoltzer Litvak said...

Litvak from Budapest
"Stop being לן בבית הקברותniks. Eastern Europe is gone. Torah is only in New Jersey, only in Morristown and only in one street in Morristown."
I heard the torah is moving more south to toms river, is there some truth to that?

Mishkoltzer Litvak said...

Litvak from Budapest
"The desperate need of some to discredit the Mishna Berura is chizuk for all of us."
Who is the SOME? who is the US?
is Reb Moshe in the US? or in the THEM?

Mishkoltzer Litvak said...

Litvak of Budapest
"They believe that HoRav Shach is the same as the Chofetz Chaim. Us Litvaks can appreciate the sentiment, although we would not say such a thing ourselves. Rav Shach was a great man, just not the CC."
lets leave Rav shachs legacy in the good hands of Hapeles,Eitz, Nati Grossman and Reb Shmuel
Lets talk Mishneh Berurah

moderator said...

"Reb Shloma Zalmen, Reb Moshe, Reb Nisen Karelitz...."

זי"ע

shregi favel said...

kc: whom did he have in mind? Lakewood? Reb moshe?

yes both.

rabbi wasserman, telshe said...

kolo: "whom did he have in mind?"

for starters:
Kamenetsky of Philadelphia
Goldberg of Israel
Greenblat of memphis

shregi favel said...

"Rav Shach was a great man"

A rude political operated entrusted by his party to create a cunduit designed to synergies the Litvishe with "halachic" zionisim.

It's like calling Kastner the saver of SR when in fact he couldn't care less, when in fact the train was hostaged throughout the war! full of personalities, that no one wanted alive or dead, so they kept them in limbo as hostages. The nazis didn't want them between the masses and to instigate against them, and the free world and the zionist didn't want them out and to tell the whole world what goes on there, and disrupt the out come of the war. that was kastners eichman and ksstbers job a match made in heaven, to keep the train with "leaders" of all sorts in limbo and Quiet!

witness Joel Brand who got out try to make noises! and was detained by the "British and Zionists".

Geler Badchan said...

Shriegi
"It's like calling Kastner the saver of SR when in fact he couldn't care less,"
but you admit he saved him and he was a zionist, then why celebrate the 21 of Kislev,
It does not matter his thoughts then and after
he was sitra achra period.....

geebee said...

geler soon you will be green too, and you will get rid of your stupidities to.

pumpkin head said...

"but you admit"

Read Perfidy He was convicted and sentenced as a muderer ימש"ו

prospect park bencher said...

..Belsky of OU

zeresh said...

gb, It does not matter his thoughts

than why not praise eichman and Hitler they had the final saying, or maybe parhoh and acshveirosh too

rabbi smirnoff said...

..RMF of the lower east side.

Anonymous said...

Reb Moshe like many prewar litvishe gedolim viewed the MB as a pretty weak sefer, it was only postwar war that the chazon ish and others found it to contain sodos hatorah, and answers to all reb akiva eigers questions