I needed to be in Williamsburg yesterday, don't ask me why, but I did. I felt like a tourist visiting Meah She'orim - out of place. I saw the good, the bad, and the ugly. I walked from one end of the Shechunah to the other and saw all the hustle-bustle that goes on there. The hurried walks and the talks on the street corners. I saw the distrust that they have for anybody that's not EXACTLY like them, although very little separates me from them. I come from their country (well, at least my parents do) and speak their language (dialect) very, very well. I waited with the hitchhikers by the BQE and ended up taking the bus anyway, simply because I'm too aydel to fight over seats in a stranger's car, and that may be necessary when vying for seat in in the car of a stranger nice enough to give you a ride. That's my nature; I'd rather go hungry than push in line to get food, and have been that way for my entire life. It must the Ungarishe Neshomoh.
Upon entering the bus I heard the now-familiar sound of Hebrew being spoken between a passenger and the driver. It felt weird, almost illegal, almost like something terribly wrong was happening and I was witness to this crime. Hebrew on a bus full of Satmarer Chassidim, isn't that sacrelige, the ultimate of insults? I have mixed feelings about Hebrew in general; I don't like when others speak it, especially at the expense of Yiddish, yet feel quite good about myself when I can carry on a conversation in Hebrew. I feel like it robbed generations of good, frum Jews of part of their heritage. In Bais Yaakov in Israel they were all Hebrew way back in the pre-state '40's, and nice Yerushalmi women have problems speaking their beautiful brand of Yiddish since then. Later on it robbed boys of Yeshivos and Chadorim simply because Yiddish became a hassle to teach in when all the kids were speaking Hebrew at home since their mothers spoke little Yiddish and spoke only Hebrew amongst friends. Later, the influx of Jews from the Middle East made Yiddish almost impossible in places like Lubavitcher Mosdos where they were welcomed with open arms.
So having that said that I felt like this man with the black hat and trimmed beard, with Peyos behind his ears, speaking Hebrew to the driver with a heavy Russian accent, was being extremely unthoughtful by doing it in a bus filled with Satmarer Chassidim. They've been taught, for better or for worse, that speaking Hebrew is tantamount to transgressing some of the greatest sins a hundred times over. That's no small feat. I compared it to a couple of Snags on the Crown Heights bus bashing a concept held in high esteem in Lubavitch, I surely would be offended by remarks made about it. Whether or not I'd speak up and tell the guy to "put a sock in it" is another question; that would depend on my mood more than anything else, I'm not always that brave, though I have been known to let people have it, even in public. Maybe it was his stupid Russian pride that made him do it......
Upon entering the bus I heard the now-familiar sound of Hebrew being spoken between a passenger and the driver. It felt weird, almost illegal, almost like something terribly wrong was happening and I was witness to this crime. Hebrew on a bus full of Satmarer Chassidim, isn't that sacrelige, the ultimate of insults? I have mixed feelings about Hebrew in general; I don't like when others speak it, especially at the expense of Yiddish, yet feel quite good about myself when I can carry on a conversation in Hebrew. I feel like it robbed generations of good, frum Jews of part of their heritage. In Bais Yaakov in Israel they were all Hebrew way back in the pre-state '40's, and nice Yerushalmi women have problems speaking their beautiful brand of Yiddish since then. Later on it robbed boys of Yeshivos and Chadorim simply because Yiddish became a hassle to teach in when all the kids were speaking Hebrew at home since their mothers spoke little Yiddish and spoke only Hebrew amongst friends. Later, the influx of Jews from the Middle East made Yiddish almost impossible in places like Lubavitcher Mosdos where they were welcomed with open arms.
So having that said that I felt like this man with the black hat and trimmed beard, with Peyos behind his ears, speaking Hebrew to the driver with a heavy Russian accent, was being extremely unthoughtful by doing it in a bus filled with Satmarer Chassidim. They've been taught, for better or for worse, that speaking Hebrew is tantamount to transgressing some of the greatest sins a hundred times over. That's no small feat. I compared it to a couple of Snags on the Crown Heights bus bashing a concept held in high esteem in Lubavitch, I surely would be offended by remarks made about it. Whether or not I'd speak up and tell the guy to "put a sock in it" is another question; that would depend on my mood more than anything else, I'm not always that brave, though I have been known to let people have it, even in public. Maybe it was his stupid Russian pride that made him do it......
31 comments:
So what happened with the Ketoires teimoner?
Your description of Willy is your own projection:Nobody was looking at you and showing you distrust, it was your mind playing games with you.Hebrew can be heard all around Willy including the bes medresh on Rodney.
Please come more often.Willy rocks.
I found him through the grapevine. It wasn't my mind playing games, it was from conversations I had with people, not imaginary looks. Hayetochen that it can be heard in Willy? The Rebbe Zechonevooche's Shil?! has it gone down the tubes?
what do you mean it rocks?
Williamsburg is a great place, that's what I meant by Willy rocks.
If anybody wants to know what the shteytel was like, it's Willy.You have to come again,to see the unique flavor.The silly fights are a very small part of Willy.
Can't you guys feel the Satmar love? the Legendary love that is Satmar? I sure can.....
Willy
I have news for you, most frumeh including half of your own group, stay away from you too. You just live in a cocoon, so it's hard to tell. Try going out into the REAL world.
Why get personal here?
The fact of the matter is that we have many people from different kraizen coming here every day including Lubavitchers.Hundreds come into the wedding halls every night.Willy is the 'capital' of Jewish simcha halls.
Many Satmar are full of love.People in need know that.Even the Cows from fat know that.
You should see the people who come buy the world famous matzos from the Satmar Matzoh bakery every year.
I have never ever seen a person personally attacked because of their affiliations like Lubavitch, or Modern, it's not a personal thing.
Ask the Lubavitcher meshichist Gili who used to sell electronics on the street everyday.He knew that Williamsburg was the place to make money.If you see him tell him he is missed.He was a great guy.I think he may have moved back to Canada.
Btw, ask the Ketoires teimoner :He speaks Hebrew all day long in Willy and though he went to a Lubavitcher yeshiva, loves Williamsburg and Satmar people.I know that we have gotten a bad name because of idiots in our midst, but ask anybody who has a personal relationship with Satmarer and they''ll tell you about lots of special people.
I know all about the Ketoyres guy and all about his exploits in Williamsburg. Nobody diminished any of their contributions to society not the great things going on there. Relax. We know that there's more and better business in Williamsburg. Stop tooting your horn.
You won't fargin me tooting Williamsburgs horn, once in a blue moon, while your whole Chabadsker avoideh is to to toot your rebbes horn and Lubavitch bichlal.The one difference is that I realize that Satmar has many chesroines and do not want my kids or anybody else to emulate them, you however, preach that Lubavitch is oh, so pure,everything about it.We all know that people who try and portray themselves as perfect are anything but..
Tzigg said: "I saw the distrust that they have for anybody that's not EXACTLY like them, although very little separates me from them."
Have you considered getting a psychiatric evaluation, perhaps some medication? such paranoia I haven't experienced this ever; which includes walking down the street, shopping in stores, going to Satmar simchas (big and small). Maybe its YOU who has the DISTRUST.
Tzig said:
....simply because I'm too aydel to fight over seats in a stranger's car...
1) I have given people rides from that corner many times with no 'fights'.
2) If one is aidel he doesn't know it, and if he did, the minute it left his lips he would loose his aidel status.....
You know: You would think that a couple of guys living within a few miles of each other would speak the language and understand each other, but it seems like we don't. Not only that, but goody two shoes like N shoot out of their chairs thinking that I say one thing, while the opposite is the case.
N
you need to be a little less literal, and give more time to reading what I write. Maybe that way you can understand the jist and context of what I write. You know me better than that....................unless you're paranoid and distrusting of me, and think that this is my "dark side."
I still don't completely understand the attachment to a virtually useless language like Yiddish...
Just lately Oura (snags) had to change the big outdoor ad on Lee@ Keap because the boy had a decent looking hair cut. It was changed to a zero haircut boy.Thats for a liberal town.
Willy
I dont see why Satmar with 3 weeklies & 4 glossy monthlies propagating Reb Yoelish is less PR then Chabad. Der Zieting has for 20 years running a series on the rebbes coming to amerika. the last time I checked he still was at the pier.
Look for a new reason to bash Chabad,
TO TZIGELE
something tels me that you are one of those contenisten that were kidnaped from willi to the new lebovitcher testement
we understand that you are orig from ungarishe chasidim
i see in your words a love-hate conflict re willi
perhaps was this yr previous religion?
am i right?????
My previous religion was Ungarish, now it's Jewish.
:-)
Zezmir:
It seems like Rabbi Heller of CH agrees with me.
just a hint
i do see you are a good photographer and y"r creative in producing a picture making willi look depressed
meawile willi has a very lively and yes a happy bunch of people and chasidim from all kind
i will suggest on yr next visit to willi you shall be less biased
and not creat a drupy and depressed picture (photoshop etc.)
put in a nice color picture showing all the good and happy things happening in willi with the sweet happy faces of kinderlech with their yidishe חן
as ר יעקב טאשקאנטער ע"ה who lived in willi his last years used to say
"the kinderlech of willi with their thier yidishe חן and zise chasidishe piolech gives me a חיות and נחת"
zei gezunt
to tzigele
dont trow stones on a place you come from
haterete has its limits
implaying that the place you come from is not yiddish is not smart bcs if you go back in years you know well that each family has its own problems
reb moshe?? doe it ring the bell???
or the brother n 'laws of
those that were on the top just a while ago.....
Don't flatter yourself; I'm not from Williamsburg.
The picture was not tampered with, no Photoshop was used.
Who implied that the place I come from is not Yiddish? He asked me if I'm Ungarish and I changed religions, so I answered with a gleich vertel. It seems like you need to go out more and get some fresh air, the lack of oxygen is getting to you.
His name was Reb Chaim Tashkenter, not Reb Yaakov.
R'Chaim Hurvitz known as R'Chaim Tashkenter when he was in Tashkent during the war.
R'Chaim.......now you are talking a fartzeitisheh chasidishe yid.That is the Lubavitch that was once, now it has been taken over by meshugoim and gevoreners.
I knew him well, and he spent his last couple of years in Eyshel Avrohom, here in Willy
Yes, Gili did move to Montreal, though when I was there last I didn't see him. It's possible that he moved again.
Surprising as that link is, I never proposed English as a substitute for Yiddish, farkert, I propose Loshein Hakeidesh.
Yet, I am baffled by Rav Heller's letter - I don't understand his POV here.
If any snag rabbi had put up the letter Rabbi Heller posted the Tzig would be all on top of him.But than again the Tzig is 'objective' he does not 'attack' anybody, he only repeats fifth hand allegations from a middle aged insecure baby who had problems with his mommy.
Bravo Tzig!
Lest you misinterpret this as a zilzul in Rabbi Heller:I think R'Heller is one of the few Lubab who know anything, I think he is an ehrlicheh person, I don't what and for how much longer he can remain in the meshugoim house called Lubavitch.See, on the one hand if he leaves than Chabad has lost probably the only guy who promotes any type of learning besides parroting Rambam aka to 'bebbeh' a Rambam or the reading a Likutei Sichos.Now, why is this important??I mean the Chbsker are widely viewed as total ignoramasus, so nobody would even dream of relying on them,RIGHT?!!
Unfortunately, wrong!!
They have managed to force their way into all kinds of positions, either by sweet talking or by force, or by taking a position nobody wants in ekk velt,IF, these guys don't know anything it can affect all of us JEWS!!!
Rabbi Hellers kolel is the only Lubab learning institution for young married Lubabs in North America!!!I mean imagine that, a young schnook, who has learned a bit, if serious that is, till 18, before the Lubab machine starts shipping him over the globe to make more souls for the Rebbe shlita.Once back in the 770 loony bin, if serious, he does a quickie 'semicha light' program, SAYS a couple of 'sicheys keidesh' and VOILA ve 'ave a rabbi!!!'Shtell dech for' if we did not have the year of kolel that R'Heller runs???
B'kitser, if R'Heller joins dad in BP, Lubavitch does what ever they want, cuz R'Heller is the only one holding these meshugoim back.I won't get into the whole story of R'Heller leaving the so called beid din, because there is a limit to things that would be a joke if they weren't true, making them a crying issue.
This has about zero chance of passing the ensoring department but at least the Tzig will get some truth in his face
Pipik?
what's a Pipik?
ohhhhh!
Tzig- what the heck was the point of this post?
The "Tashkenter" has 14 or 15 children.Why did he have to live out his years in Willy of all places?
Yoshe
I don't know about the amount of children he had, but I think the question is inappropriate, seeing that you're not in their situation. The same can be asked why any of these assisted living facilities are full of elderly people who have kids who can seemingly take care of them.
I hope you weren't implying anything.
R'Chaim has if I'm not mistaken 11 or twelve kids.The oldest , from the first wife lives in Australia.Her mother died in Russia.From his second he has the Lubavitcher brood, some of whom live in CH.
Despite the silly implications here, his kids were very, very ibergegeyben to his care.I say this despite not being a big chused of Lubab.Sometimes, the best care can be given in a nursing home and his kids were there every day for him
just for info.
reb chaim's wife was in eishel
bcs of alzh desease and reb chaim wanted to be near his wife to asist her
he was a real fartztishe chosid
er zol hoben a lichtigen gan eiden
I stand corrected. Unfortunately I didn't express myself adequately. What I meant to say is, that if someone like R' Chaim Hurvitz has to live out his years in Williamsburg, and not within his family or community,then there must be some good reasons. I didn't know about his wife's illness.No offence meant.
Shtetl wasn't like that. Sorry to tell you.
I’m the daughter of Reb Chaim Halevy Hurwitz (tashkenter) Olov Hasholom.
I can’t believe that people are so disgusting to talk about a Kodosh, of whom you know nothing about, such a vile and viperous, and venomous language.
My Father was a Baal Chessed his life was always for helping people. Shame on you, you have nothing better to do than say Rechilus and Loshon Horah about a Tsadik like my Father.
He did not come to Ashel because he hated Lubavich, he loved Lubavich and Chabad.
My father a direct descendant from Reb Aharon Mistrashele never said a bad word about anyone. The only reason he came to Your Lovely Williamsburg was to get care for my Mother Oleho Hasholem. He hated there every minute because he was away from his home. He wanted to stay with my mother because she was not well and needed care we could not give to her. The chessed that you show for others is horrible.
I do not wish on any of you to be in a place like Ashel no one wants to be there.
I hope you do remember my father came home every Shabos and Yom Tov.
Not a day past without our family being there for my mother or my father.
Al todin es chavercho ad shetagia limkomo, open up the Kitzur Shulchon Oruch and see what you do if it is not Shfichas Domim.
If all of you people were like Reb Aba Pliskin or Rabbi Liberman, or had a Brekele Menchlechkeit or do the Chessed those people did Moshiach would have been here.
I always thought that people in Williamsburg where Baalei Chessed, how wrong I was.
It’s not enough to have to be sick an have to leave once home, go to a place to get better and find out what kind of monsters live in that community, that, I always held dear.
I lost all my good feeling about you, Goldene Williamsburgers, disappointed is not a word.
My father saved hundreds of people in times of war when it was dangerous to do things under the communist regime. He also helped people who live now in Williamsburg, he put his own life in peril, just to save lives and also to bring Yiddishe Korbonos to Kvuras Yisroel under the hardest conditions.
Talk about Lubavich or Chabad go wash your mouths and say Al Cheit Shechotonu and ask Mechila from The Ribono Shel Olam.
In all the time I reside in Crown Heights I’ve never heard a person speaking so mischievously about another Jew. Where is your Veohavto Lereacho Komocho?
I’m so disgusted by what you wrote that I’m sick from it.
You talk about people learning in the yeshivas in Chabad, the Yeshivah Bocherim will all TREISSEL you out with their knowledge. They are not going in the ek velt to look at the other side or to make Lubavichers from people. Our children go to were ever a Jew needs help with Yiddishkeit to know how to behave like a Yid has to.
Rachamono Litzlon to fall into your hands and or mouth.
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