The world famous author of the "Tznius Book" has struck again. By that I mean that just as he had taken women and girls who considered themselves quite Tzonu'os, and made them into provocative ones who cause men to sin, so too with this book. While recently visiting a doctor's office I noticed his book on a Chosson and Kallah and the period between engagement and wedding called וארשתיך לי בצדק, and was immediately drawn to it. I'm b"h happily married for a number of years, but I guess I wanted to see if I was a good boy during that time. It turns out that until you get to the part about proper conduct during your engagement you need to be on your third visit to that doctor's office, and I didn't have all that much of a wait anyway, so I didn't get very far. First there's much talk there about the general code of conduct between men and women, which is of relevance to me now, as well as to most of you, since many of us do work in offices and interact with women daily on a professional level.
What bothers me is as follows: If you work in an office and there's a secretary there, or any other female employee for that matter, whether Jewish or non-Jewish, there are times when the mood there is a bit lighter. You need to interact and deal with her as you'd do with any other human being, this isn't a grocery in Williamsburg where you can throw the money on the counter. There are times you need to make light conversation, and there are times you need to congratulate her, for whatever reason. I realize that most of what he says is basic Shulchan Aruch, but he seems to be going overboard with his Psokim. Here's what I mean (and please don't attack me as not caring about halochoh.) He quotes the Shulchan Aruch and Poskim like the Beis Shmuel who make any kind of interaction with women Avizrayoo DeGiluy Arayos and transgressions of the Lav of Lo Sikrevoo LeGalos Ervosoh.
To be continued, iy"h.
14 comments:
In today's business environment, I doubt whether a tzurvo derabonon can let his wife work at all, what with all the hand-shaking, kalus rosh, etc. that she will be exposed to as part of a normal office environment.
Did you know that...
a female secretary is forbidden to prepare a coffee for her male boss?
when working with females (or males) on a project, males (or females) are forbidden to refer to themselves as "we"?
colleagues are forbidden from referring to their opposite gender colleagues on a first-name basis, Mr. Tzig?
For more enlightening and challenging info, refer to 9 - 5, A Guide to Modest Conduct for Today's Workplace by R' Shmuel Neiman.
I wonder what those girls have been doing on 47th Street all these years...
Hirshel: I have to tell you that I laughed when I read your sentence about throwing money on the counter.
Classic Tzig!
Thanks for noticing, ASJ. I try.
Who is rabbi Falk. I know he lives in Gateshead, but does he have a tafkid there ? Is he married ? to a woman ?
I don't know the exact halacha but is he right what he saying?
Are his mekoros true?
The real question, that nobody with any yiras shomayim likes to talk about, is how much of shulchan aruch is reasonably applicable within the context of our time and place.
The answers to this question are what we call different communities...
Falk's brainfarts notwithstanding, but somehow the shrekleche atmosphere of pritzus and ekeldigkeit mostly exists in Jew-infested offices (anecdotal, empirical evidence, of course). Sad as it is, in normal workplaces (read: more-less Judenrein) - at least in New York - , men and women (and even those in between) coexist without any kind of sexual or other gender-related friction (other then an occasional bitching session). And not just out of fear of a lawsuit or termination - it's just not done; that's not what work is for. But in those hebrew offices (the on e that starts with a B isn't an exception), once you step inside women are behaving like either total hoes or OCD freaks; men are obsessed and make repulsive comments and gestures all the time and in general, one would feel much safer for his daughter or wife to work in a "goyishe" office with normal pay and benefits and not in most of shops run by insere teiere briders un shvesters. This malady is borderless - litvakes, Satmarers and chabadnikes are almost equally guilty. Some are more likely then other to take it mekoach al hapoel but that's not a Hoishane Rabbe conversation. Maybe it has to do with quality of labor force and what lack of benefits and ubiquitous disregard of "lo serade boi befurech" does to a gesheft.
Hoishanu, Kerem Mi Toiluas, Hoishaaaanu !
Umyvalnikoff, you say it's "not just out of fear of a lawsuit or termination - it's just not done; that's not what work is for". And yet until the courts started allowing "hostile environment" suits, such behaviour was absolutely routine in the American workplace. If you're the TV-watching type, I recommend the show Mad Men on AMC, which is set in 1960, and is supposed to be pretty accurate in its depiction of that time. Let's just say that an eidele yid would not have fit in at all, and let's not even speak about a yiddene.
umyvalnikoff
stam hacken ah cheinik is nisht kan mitzvah.
to compare Jewish working conditions to non-Jewish is simply ludicrous, and you know it.
Millhouse - I wasn't questioning benefits of litigation on workplace atmosphere, by no means. But by whatever means it has been attained - that's very much in the past, and today a "goyishe" workplace is in many ways a friendlier environment then a "jewish" one. Besides, threats , perceived or real, of a lawsuit are equal for employers with equally deep pockets.
Tzig - but why is it ludicrous to compare employers that reside on a same block and employ people with similar qualifications ?
P.S. - Mr. millhouse, I hope you don't think that a TV Show about the most vain of all industries is representative of how a generic workplace looked like in the 50-s or even 60's. Glengarry Glen Ross would hit closer to home, but still nothing like reality. It's called "drama" for a reason ...
To "Ahem"'s comment...
Better 47th than 42nd.
Wait aaaaa minute!
According to Rabbi Falk, they may be just about equal.
great post.I was thinkin' the same thing. this you can print
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