Monday, January 25, 2010

יו"ד שבט תשי"א

29 comments:

Sam said...

Are you going to discuss the future of Chabad/Lubavitch?
From Chabad sites that show the real feelings of Lubavitch members from the epi-center,Crown Heights, it is a very different movement that you portray.You have said that you will never criticize them, true, but it also could be that as a relative newcomer to Chabad you also don't see all the problems.
I can tell you that watching Rabbi Axelrod "paskening " that the Rebbe is Moshiach in 1998 a couple of years after his passing and also calling him "shlita" and ten seeing a letter from him against a fellow Lubavitcher going on the same lines I was scratching my head.
Where are they headed?

sam said...

btw, who is the guy saying the maamar?

Anonymous said...

Its not the Rashag or Barry.

Friendly Anonymous said...

Could you please post the highlights package from JEM? not all of your readers have the zitzfleish to listen to a 40-minute audio.

Anonymous said...

epi-center for whom? I never go there and I wear a kapote, learn chitas, mamarim, follow all the minhagim... I AM CHABAD not them and so are thousands like me.

An Ailemesher said...

I read somewhere that the ma'amar was a surprise and the people weren't aware of what was happening. During the first hafsoko, someone announced that the oilem should stand. Too bad they didn't have a recording of the hafsokos in middle.

This ma'amar was controversial. Supposedly they showed this ma'mar to the Brisker Rov and he commented disparagingly that the Rebbe thinks that he's moshiach. I didn't see it in the ma'amar and thought that the Rov was harping on the ma'amar for no good reason because he was a misnaged. But then, in 1992, R. Yoel himself claimed that the Rebbe hinted that he was moshiach in that first ma'mar. No one understands the Rebbe's ma'amarim better than the R. Yoel.

Another controversial statement was that "the Rebbe the shver will take us out of the galus", which implies that the Rayatz was moshiach.

Also want to point out that in 1951 the chassidim felt that Lubavitch would not survive without a Rebbe. The simcha of the chassidim was great when the Rebbe took over the nesius. It's a shame that the same didn't happen in 1994.

Anonymous said...

You sound like parrot of frumteens, hashkafa etc sites.
If Chabad was nothing in 1950 compared to now... that R' Velvel cared according to dein vebsites, shows that indeed he had nevua to see the potential of the Rebbe to be Moshiach as one did not see the andere Gedolim accomplish the same in increasing Yiddishkite among the velt as opposed to self-preservation

Anonymous said...

Sam,
I don"t see why Rav Axelrod didn't have the right to say the Rebbe is Moshiach
1) Its no contradiction to our faith( after reading the book of DR. Berger I concluded that)
2) You can see that he is quite responsible and he can police himself and knows on his own to detect when someone is going on too far, he stops it full force, he doesn't need some old guy of Benai Berak to wage a war and create a Party , Newspaper,Kashrus Organization for that.
3)To tell someone that he shouldn't declare a Inyan on Emuna Vedaios because some fringe will take it the wrong way, is like the Rambam shouldn"t say that the hand of hashem is not Kipshito, since the Spinoza ideology will be created .

Anonymous said...

An ailemesher,
the Brisker statement was created retroactively in the days of the Election storm by the Creation Of Degel Hatorah, I guess the Rishei Hador needed some legitimacy,
but thats for sure not a rumor that Hiechel Shloma where the Maran Elyashev worked and participated was Ossur Betachlis and he spend a lot of time to fight it, as it would be a Shmad center, and our godul hador gave no hoot.

Anonymous said...

Sam said...

Are you going to discuss the future of Chabad/Lubavitch?

Shmuley's got your number

http://www.crownheights.info/index.php?itemid=23907

Yitzchak Meir said...

Great pictures of R' Herman, ZT"L.
If you look at the first edition of the book and compare it to the most current, clearly the first edition is not as whitewashed as the current edition one can buy.
However, notwithstanding that Rebbetzin Shain understandably would talk up her Father, I have no doubt that R' Herman was a true Tzaddik. I'm not sure what you accomplish by belittling him.

Yitzchak Meir said...

whoops put my comments on the wrong thread. Should be the one with R' Herman...obviously.

An Ailemesher said...

Another observation. It seems that over the years, the stress of 10 Shevat has changed from the yahrtzeit of the Rayat"z to the kabolos nesius of the Rama"sh. This is also evident in Tzig's post. Instead of posting interesting pictures of the Rayatz, in honor of his 60th yahrtzeit you posted ba'asi l'gani. Dare I say that in Lubavitch today all previous Rebbes from the Alter Rebbe on, are considered a mere preparation for the final shlaimus of the dor hashv'i doro shel melech hamoshiach?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

observe away, but this isn't a shverrer Rambam, so please don't kler too much into it.

I will grant you this that the big deal is for the Rebbe, yes. But a little bit of research will simplify it for you.

An Ailemesher said...

I'm researching right here. You're my main source for anything Chaba"d. Please clarify. You've provided answers to bigger shtusim than this.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

first explain to me what your issue - or, besser gezogt, your problem - is with this that the Rebbe is "celebrated" more than the FR.

An Ailmesher said...

I'm trying to understand the change that has happened over the years. I still remember when the stress of 10 Shevat was the Rayatz's yahrtzeit. The date of the kabolos nesius was of lesser importance. Just want to understand when and why it changed.

Also, among other yidden, the earlier generations are considered much greater than the later generations. אם הראשונם כמלאכים אנו כבני אדם. R' Chaim Volozhener is considered greater than R. Chaim Brisker. The Kotzker greater than the Beis Yisroel. In Lubavitch the last Rebbe seems to outshine all the other Rebbes, the Alter Rebbe, Tzenach Tzedek, the gedoile oilom. In Toras Sholom, the title 'Rebbe' stam with out a name refers to the Alter rebbe. Now Rebbe stam refers to the last rebbe. All of us who knew the last Rebbe, recognized his greatness and talents, רבים השיב מעון, etc. But as great as the Alter Rebbe? No way!

CR said...

"I still remember when the stress of 10 Shevat was the Rayatz's yahrtzeit. The date of the kabolos nesius was of lesser importance. Just want to understand when and why it changed."

The most obvious change is that in the Yuds and Chofs most Y"S observers came of age during the RaYYaTz's nesius. Accordingly, the RaYYaTz was the focus of the day. As the new generations came of age during the years of the MaMoSh their focus was, naturally, on THEIR Rebbe. There was nothing subversive or nefarious about this; the generations changed.

"R' Chaim Volozhener is considered greater than R. Chaim Brisker."

And, yet, in the Yeshivishe velt, you hear R. Chaim and R. Velvel Brisker quoted far more often than the Volozhiners. And "The Brisker Rov" is the younger Brisker, not the older. Again, this is undoubtedly due to the fact that today's elder Yeshivish Rabbonim were more directly influenced by R. Velvel Brisker than by R. Chaim or the Volozhiners. Do you see a pattern here? It just jumps off the page at me!

Anonymous said...

An Ailimisher
"the title 'Rebbe' stam with out a name refers to the Alter rebbe. Now Rebbe stam refers to the last rebbe. "
FYI,
Chasidim when they fabreng between Hiemishe , they call the Rebbe every Rebbe they are discussing at that moment , you can sit there and not chap whom they are talking about.
I see that you look on other chabad sources outside of Hirshel, as Toras Shulem etc.. so the circus is not your only source.

מענדל said...

עולמשער
פשט אין ממלא מקום פארשטייטסו?
ממלא מקום מיינט אז ער פילט אלץ וואס איז געווען פריער, ממילא האט מען אין רבי'ן אלץ וואס איז געווען אין די פריערדיקע דורות. און וויבאלד ער האט דאך אייגענע מעלות איז דאס בהוספה.
הייסט דאס אז אן אמת'ע ממלא מקום איז אלץ וואס איז געווען פריער און דערצו נאך מער.
און בכלל אויב דו האסט ניט א הבנה אין רבי, איז פרעגן מעגסטו, אבער דעה זאגן זאלסטו לאזן פאר די וואס פארשטיין.
מענדל

Yonoson said...

אבער דעה זאגן זאלסטו לאזן פאר די וואס פארשטיין.
----------------------------------
Mendel,
Dee "vous farshteyen" mean you??
Quite honestly, I think I"m also in Ailemishers camp, that does not really get it.
Me also thinks that this 60 years since the nesius is kinda funny, cuz more than a quarter of the nesius was really behe'elem.
Bkitser, ich bin fin di chevreh vous farshyen nisht, in 'ch bin dir mekaneh az dee fartaysht yoh.

מענדל said...

יונתן
אין אומרים למי שלא ראה את החודש יבא ויעיד.
פארשטיין, פארשטייט קיינער ניט, ווייל א רבי איז אן אנדער גדר. אבער פארשטיין וואס מען פארשטייט ניט איז שייך.
און אויב דו וואלסט פארשטאנען דער קשר צווישן א (חב"ד) חסיד און א רבי'ן וואלסטו ניט פרעגן וועגן ששים שנה.
מענדל

Anonymous said...

Yonoson
Umode Veozev Yeruchem, if you don"t understand the Neshomediga Kesher what this chasidim have with a Rebbe then bug off and try to understand a field that is closer to your style, by beliving only in a good piece of overnight Kugel, you see it, you touch it, its warm, it smells great, and some guy with Bigdie Tzivonim eats eats it.

yonoson said...

Anon
You the big talker who doesn't even bother to take a name is the "maven".
Not stam we see the shliach in Ibiza reach those low levels because of his "hiskashres" fantasies.That was because of guys like you, not me.
You guys are lela'ag velokeles in the whole world, yet you have the azus shelo dekedushah to attack others as kugel fressers!
Unbelievable!

Anonymous said...

Yonoson
"You guys are lela'ag velokeles in the whole world"
Who decides who the world is,Are Skulener Rebbe,Satmar Rebbe, Bobover Rebbe,And 100's of people that are using the chabad facilities worldwide part of that world that you know? or what about the thousands of Jews that were sitting by Reb Yoels fabrengens in Eretz Yisroel sitting and listening
(no Kugel was served)to Reb Yoel delivering the Rebbes Chassidus,Are they part of your world, what ever you think I would rather be part of the world of the latter.

yonson said...

Anon,
Slow down
I attend many shiurim by R'Yoel.What has that got to do with you guys being a la'ag vokeles?
You guys do not include R'Yoel and other normal,choshuve people.
How do I know who the "world" is?Well, when you guys have become the popular butt of jokes by Yankel Miller and other badchonim, it means that the "world" sees you as crazy.Obviously you can continue to live in your fools paradise, oblivious of all of that.After you guys have a "gan eden hatachton" a "gan eden hoelyon" and the "truth", why would you care that a the "meshigineh" velt thinks you are off the world??
Oh, about all the Rebbes "using" Chabad.Actually, in many cases it's Chabad, under attack that "uses" these rebbes to prove that chabad is not so crazy,if even chshuveh yidden will step in.Derech agav, these shluchim also cash in very nicely from the Satmar largesse, ask the shliach in Beijing or the Palm Springs guy.

Anonymous said...

Yonson
so your barometer is Yankel Miller, he is your world, what a ferd you are.

Anonymous said...

what is with the levaya biggun? when did he get into more chearleader inspirational?

yonoson said...

"Yonson
so your barometer is Yankel Miller, he is your world, what a ferd you are."

Anon,
Thanks for the compliment.
You should know that you would have to work a thousand years just to come to the ankles of Yankel Miller.
You also did not get what I meant, which is no surprise.The fact that there are many jokes about Lubavitch, especially about their Elvis claims shows that the greater velt sees them as a laughing stock.
Hey, it's ok guys, don't change.Ibiza,Melbourne,Zimroiny Tzick, is only the tip of the iceberg, nothing to be worried about.....
As if.