Friday, January 15, 2010

Forgotten dynasty

Thanks to reader CE for sending me the links listed below

בעל "דור רביעי" ז"ל

Ask most people today who was Klausenberger Rav before the war and they'll say Reb Yekusiel Yida Halberstam, zt"l. They may even tell you how his then-uncle the Satmar Rov got him the job, and he later stabbed him in the back by speaking out against him... But chances are that's all they'd know. Those more knowledgeable may say Glasner, but he's basically forgotten about, despite his scholarship and pedigree. It's tough out there, even for the bluebloods. Once you're blacklisted no yichus will help. In Hungary you could not be inclined to Zionism, no matter who you were. Reb Moshe Shmuel was the oldest great grandson of the Chasam Sofer, thus entitling himself Dor Revi'i of his elter zeide. He left Klausenberg and made Aliya in the 1920s after 40-something years as Rav, saying how after the atrocities of WWI he could no longer stay in Europe. They say even marched in Zionist parades in K'berg, waving the Zionist flag! The holy Chasam Sofer's Eynikel! They tell a story how the Nasader Rov, darling of the kanoyim, would tell travel around checking Mikvaos in various towns and cities of Hungary/Transylvania. He arrived in Cluj (K'berg) and checked the mikvah, deeming it pasul, as he often did. The problem was that he would not speak to Rav Glasner, because of the latter's open Zionist tendencies. So he opened the door to his house, shouted "Kloysenborger Roov, di mikveh iz poosil!" and left. Never looking at or speaking to RMSG...

A biography of RMSG

בנו בעל "דור דורים" ז"ל

Reb Akiva Glasner succeeded his father as Rov of K'berg and served until the deportation of the Jews in 1944. He was deported to Bergen Belsen but was saved from the jaws of death by the Kasztner transport, later living in Zurich until his passing. Him being a (sort of clandestine) Zionist it makes sense that he was one of the lucky few. I wonder if he talked with the Satmar Rov on the train... The biographers say that he hid his Zionism so as not to incur the wrath of those who vilified his father. While he was in K'berg, that is. Later on he was not bashful of his views anymore. The "Sefard" kehillah there was founded so as to separate from his Zionist father. They blame the chassidim who came from Poland for the machlokes; until then - they say - all was well. They always tell you to look at what happened to the descendants of these albeit great Rabbonim who embraced Zionism; they mostly assimilated into the Mizrachi and worse, often leaving the fold completely. That - they say - is proof that the kanoyim were - and are still - correct in opposing it. They point to Rav Herzog and others as proof. In the case of the Glasners we do have Harav Schlesinger of Monsey, known Maggid Shiur and Darshan to refute that theory just a little bit... Please see the links posted here about the Glasners to get a full picture of the two men, especially the DR.

Read about RAG


Anonymous said...

Lets see, on 1 hand u have a typical Ruv in Kberg, TC no doubt.

On the other hand, you have Sanz, A Ruv and a Rebbe, very dynamic personality, great force in the immediate post-Holocasut era.

As far as Tziyonis, now that the gegener are anti, is it your policy to be pro, and to show all Hungarian/Romanian Rabbonim who had any shemetz to be heroes?
What about Chabad and Tziyonis back in the pre-state day?

Maybe A Litvak said...

Shlesenberg got farchapt by R' Kuppleman. He is into new age of showing how the BR's peshat shtims with all the chasidisheh Torah.

Forget about Herzog. The list goes on and on. RIZM's children? sons I mean, not the daugher who married the sar Hatorah, gaon hagaonim who was a fire.

agav, kanoyim went to BR to get him to go against RIZM on the HS (pooh) thing. wanted him to play hadrball. BR told kanoy that RIZM has more yiras shomayim in his (left)pinky than that kanoy.

R' Elyashiv's children turned out well, besides for the Rebbetzin, I mean the sons. they have a three way havrusah shaft- even though the "Yad Binyamin" leaves much room for improvement. Vedal.

BTW, R. Zilberman is putting Pesach Krohn out of business; (he made his own patent for the Krohn clamp with a milah Moshe Dayan stlye, vedal). I mean with storytelling for women and feel good
He is the new story teller. Now people go to him on 'Gedolim visits', he is a tourist attraction. BTW, the BR didn't allow people in who were just sight seeing.

Anonymous said...

וידוע מ''ש כ' כ''ק האדמו'' מסאטמר שה"דגל הציוני הוא סמל הכפירה והוא גרוע הרבה מכל ע''ז שבעולם". ועיין בדברי יואל בפרשת הדגלים שמפ' בהיקף גדול ובעומק נפלאה, כדרכו בקודש , שמפעת עוצם קדושת הדגלים השתמשו בזה הצד שכנגד.
ולענ''ד שבזה הרווחנו עומק יתירה בהבנת דגל של חב''ד. ולא מלבד שנכלל בדגל של חב''ד כל רעיון הציוני ר''ך אלא הפ' הוא שעצם חפצא דדגל חב''ד הוא השתמשות בקדושה ולהפכו לע''ז

shimon said...

1. Did you read this post about kashering Dor Revii's seforim for charedim?

2. Number-wise and representation-wise, R' Halberstamm's Klausenburger Khal Sefard was a joke.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...


you make a very good point, although I'm not sure where Sanz comes into this...

no, I'm not a Tziyoni, I'm just speaking about the facts today. You do realize that despite being Kanoyim the Rabbeyim had a different way than Satmar how to go about it. It was NOT in the Hungarian style, or the Koloshitzer.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...


I will check that post at SB.


Anonymous said...

tzig you have good friends

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

what does that mean "I have good friends?"

Gimpele said...

R Yidele of Dzikov, the "liebling" of the Kanaim was dayan in Glasner's Kehila.

How is RYDS an einikel from Glasner?

shimon said...

There were many "normal" orthodox rabbonim in Hungary. Look at the Torah Shleima (Schick) from Temesvar.

shimon said...

I mean from Karczag. His son and grandson were in Temesvar.

Joe in Australia said...

Shimon, where can I read more about the Torah Shleima.

Isaac Balbin said...

You can see Torah Shleima itself in

Shlomo said...

Actually Schick from Karcag was a 'status-quo' rav.
See about him in the new edition of Tishbi where the Edah Charedis only give a haskomo on the edition that does not include Schick's material. (They published 2 versions.)

As to Reb Yidlele Horowitz, he was indeed dayan in Kluj - in R Glasners kehilla - but he refised to talk to him

Anonymous said...

Actually Schick from Karcag was a 'status-quo' rav.
That's just widhful thinking. He was an ORTHODOX rav, like it or not.

shimon said...

מה'ר שלמה צבי שיק, אב'ד קארצאג, הרשב"ן

From Virtual Judaica:

R. Solomon Zevi Schick (1844-1916) rabbi of Karczag, Hungary. R. Schick was a student, disciple and ordained by his uncle, R. David Schick, author of Imre David and R. Moses Schick, the Maharam Schick. An erudite scholar, he was the author of many scholarly and responsa works. He served in Karczag for 46 years.

Shlomo, thanks for the info, I didn't know he joined the Status Quo. His son and grandson were orthodox rabbis of Temesvar, one of the biggest cities there.

Does anyone know how R" Shimon Sidon (baal Shevet Shimon), the Tirnauer Rav and talmid of Chasam Sofer, ended with the Status Quo?

Anonymous said...

Anon 2;01
what is the she source for the Satmar Rov statement
דגל הציוני הוא סמל הכפירה והוא גרוע הרבה מכל ע''ז שבעולם
does he need backup for his outrageous statements, or he is beyond torah? You probably know that 95 percent of Gedolie Yosroel didn"t share his way of thinking on this whole subject

Anonymous said...

Reb Shaul Brachs SIL (RSB is the Rebbe muvhak of the Late Reb Ralph Blum of Bedford Hills, Every extremist on the globe is circling his wagon)also served in the offical Kehila of Glassner. Paarnosah Shanai...

Anonymous said...

Schick was not a status quo rov,his Kehila was very modern as most of hungary was,
He was a nephew and talmid of the Maharam Shick

Anonymous said...

Maybe a Livak
what a cesspool of Rechilous,
Who the .... are you to make a "Selektzia" on talmidie chacomim gedolie hador, by saying Vedal,

Anonymous said...

Anon (first)
Maybe its time to reevaluate and say that the Nasader rov and his circle were wrong and Gedolie Yisroel like Rav Glassner and Rav Tiechthal made a point, that Klal Yisroel should off leave the blood soaked Europe to Eretz Yisroel and build our little fiefdom. We usually look at the results of the yad hashem as a barometer. Isn't this enough that Hitler didn't touch eretz yisroel, but he killed almost 90% of jews of Europe, it is already 60 years, maybe its time to make a cheshbon hanefesh

Anonymous said...

Please help me on Rav Sidon, as I see from his sefer he was 1 of the very chiosheve talmidim of the CS as the son the Kesav Sofer admitts in the Haskoma, was he official status quo? I was told by someone that the Mispar hasofer of Temeshvar write on him some very pareve words

Anonymous said...

rabbi halberstam was close to rabbi glaaser and hadthe utmost respect for him, even to the extent of alianating himself from his mentor the rav of nasad

dovy said...

anon 9:52am,
I don't know which planet you live on, but all of us here on Earth have clearly seen that the zionist state was a disastorous failure. As a result Jews are now not welcome in most of the world and are in constant danger everywhere else. (just one example). Please try to think a little instead of reiterating old worn out cliches

Anonymous said...

"what is the she source for the Satmar Rov statement
דגל הציוני הוא סמל הכפירה והוא גרוע הרבה מכל ע''ז שבעולם
does he need backup for his outrageous statements, or he is beyond torah?"

דע, שכל דבריו של כ''ק האדמו''ר מסאטמאר זצ''ל שנאמרו בלהבת אש ובבכיות גדולות כידוע, מתבוססים על מאמרי חז''ל ומהספה''ק וכל מילה ומילה שהוציא הלה מפה קדשו ונתבאט בלשונו הזהב הם דברים אמתיים, ז''א דעת ושכל התורה. משום שרבינו לא החשיב עצמו ככלום וזכה (כפי מדרגתו) להתבטל כל מציאותו לרצון הבורא ב''ה.
ודבריו הק' שהעתיקו לעיל באמת הם דברי הרמב''ם שכ' דמינות הוא יותר גרוע מע''ז. ובעו''ה המינים
והאפיקורסים של רעיון הציוני הרים את ידם והשתמשו בדגלם שנתפשט בהרבה בתי ישראל וגם "בבתי הכנסיות" של אנשי בליעל ופושעים בגופם ובממונם מאנשים שנםסעף אם התלמידים של אותו האיש מבוסטן, נכד של הגר''ח מבריסק. הגר''ח הכיר את קוק בצעירותו בישיבת ואלאזין והעיד עליו שהוא מין מרחם אמו וספרי מינות נושרים מחיקו

Anonymous said...

If I am not mistaken

Reb Yiddel'e the then son-in-law of Reb Chaim Meir of Viznitz and himself an einikel of Reb Yisroel'che of Viznitz served as a Dayan in the Glazner Kehila before the war. His Zeide the Viznitzer Rebbe came to Kluj for his instalation.

RY was known as a great talmid chacham who lived later in Yerushalayim/London. While a steadfast Viznitzer chasid he did have strong Anti Zionist tendencies. Go figure

Yosef 718

Anonymous said...

Where exactly are you not welcomed? the border patrol didn't let you pass exit 16 on the NYS thruway?
In your planet thinks look as bad as prewar 1932 Europe, not in mines maybe I have to get a weekly dose of the Der Yid and Der Blatt.

Anonymous said...

Crying and hislavhas don"t make you right, if it would be that easy, the Noda Beyuda and the Chasam Sofer wouldn"t have to struggle to write 1000's of teshuvas they could of cry and every thing would be answered.This is all Chasidic stuff and the Satmar Rov was a misnaged, so why are you using ideas that were strange to him?
The Avnei Nezer had no problem with having a state before Moshiach the Satnmar Rov can not compete with the avnei nezer in no field, so don"t make blank statements of Kefira like that,
What kind of chutzpa is these this to call a Goan Otzem like Reb Yoshe Ber "Oisoi Hoish" is this the effect of the crying and Hislahavas?

Anonymous said...

"הגר''ח הכיר את קוק בצעירותו בישיבת ואלאזין והעיד עליו שהוא מין מרחם אמו וספרי מינות נושרים מחיקו"
who created this lie? how come Brisker Rov wrote to him letters with nice titles? do you know more about Reb Chaim hashkofa then the Brisker Rov? in Yeshurin they had a quote of Rav Bengis of the Eida Hacharidies remembering Rav Kook as a yiras shomaim in the Yeshiva years, is Yeshurin of New York paid off by the Zionist? Is Gottesman a double agent for the Mossad?

Anonymous said...

jb, yenne shaygetz....
not oso ha'ish.

your correct

An Ailmesher said...


Rav Kook outshone the Satmarer Rov in every area.

The story about R. Chaim Brisker calling Rav Kook a min is total nonsense and typical of the lies that are mass produced by the kanoim. The Brisker wrote to Rav Kook with great derech aratz and would not have done so if R. Chaim had called Rav Kook a min. The Raya"tz of Lubavitch visited Rav Kook in Eretz Yisroel in 1929.

Any shita that's build on sheker is sheker.

(I do admit that Rav Kook made some strange statements but that does not give us a right to attack him personally)

Anonymous said...

"Rav Kook outshone the Satmarer Rov in every area."
I think "Every area" is a little farefetched, Just one example, not getting in to the final pesak on the heter mechira who is right and who is wrong,but his sefer on that subject is a masterpiece,vs. the s
Satmar Rov Teshuvas on that matter.He didnt say no original sevora that wasnt said by the earlier poskim the Ridvaz,Chazon Nuchem.I am not even discussing his talent in writing beautiful poetic style.

Anonymous said...

שיתת בריסק בנוגע לקוק המשוגע הוא ידוע לכל מי שזכה להציק מכחמת בבית בריסק
ולהתחמם באורם וללמוד מדעתם הצלולה והשקפותם החריפה על כל באי עולם.
קןק הי' "מו''צ" בחיפה, עיר הסמוכה לספר, והוא החשיב את עצמו ל"רב" על כל המדינה בכללה משום דשליטתו הי
על כולם וגם
התקרב להשולטןם שמה. ומשום זה, ביקש הגרי''ז מבריסק את עזרתו בנוגע לדברים חשובים, בשביל פק''נ וכדומה

Anonymous said...

מובאות כמה עדויות המחזקות דעה זו של מרן הגר"ח כמו למשל זו: (עמ' א'עה', מפי נכדו של מרן הגר"ח מבריסק הגר"ד): "נכנס רבי שמחה זעליג ז"ל (הדיין של בריסק בזמן מרן הגר"ח) בבהלה אל רבי חיים ז"ל, שקבל מכתב מהרב דבויסק (הראי"ה קוק) והמכתב מלא אפיקורסות. אמר לו רבי חיים ז"ל: איר האט זיך יאצט ארומגעקוקט, איך קען אים שוין אן אפיקורוס פון וולאז'ין" (ועיי"ש בעוד עדויות נוספות משמו של מרן הגר"ח)

Gregory Oivenkratzer said...

All you ANONS replying to each other is quite ridiculous!

Make up a name, it's not so hard!

Shlomo said...

Regarding RSZ Schick of Karcag have a look at the new edition of sefer haTishbi published in 5764 by Machon Harav Matzliach where he quotes the words of the Bedatz of Edah Charedis against Schick.
It also quotes (page 308) very sharp condemnation of Schick in the Levushei Mordechai (1: YD 88) "...Ta'un lechol hapochos genizah" and Minchas Elozor (2:49) "...besifrei mirres shlo kosav harbeh divrei meenus"

Anonymous said...

the Mukatcher Rov saying on someone apikores, doesn't tell you much,holier people then RSZ Schick were Trief in Munkatch

Anonymous said...

Anon 10:42 11:03
Which book are you copying and pasting from? is it Beck or his SIL Rosenberg from Monsey?
Since when was Rav Kooks title Moit"z in Haifa?

yeruchem said...

anon 10:42 etc is just playing around, so it seems, he does not believe what he's writing

Anonymous said...

From reading the works of Glassner, on Mikvoas, Shechita etc.. you realize that out of his Zionistic bend he was quite controversial fighting the chasidic influence that was strong in that neck of the woods, he has a outright war against Sanzer rovs Mikva with a long Hakdoma ridiculing the Sanzer rovs Sons claim that his Teshuvahs were written according Kabala too, he questions if you can use as a pesak, teshuvahs that were written in that style. At the same token he talks cynical about the Shinever Rovs abstaining from preaching torah only if he had a special Haora from Shomaim. In his kuntres of shechita he had chutzpa against Reb Mendel Dezher who was a powerfull Rov and Rebbe in that region. So he was out for trouble and Chasidim like the Naseder Rov paid him back. Rav Shlesinger of Geneva writes a hakdoma by trying to whitewash the obvious, that is printed in that same sefer.

RYD Miller said...

Good Post Tzig,

There is indeed a story that that Satamr Rebbe spoke to Reb Akiva Glasner on the train.

About RMS Glazner, he had a bunch of children which were not affiliated with Zionism (his sons in laws at least), and as someone mentioned, his son Reb Akiva got along with the Chaisidm in Cluj. pretty well.

Harav Schlezinger from Monsey is the son of Rabbi Schmuel Akiva of Strassburg, France (Brother of the Rabbi of Geneva) who is the son of Rabbi Mordechai of Tel-Aviv Haifa whos FIL was the SIL of RMSG.

Anonymous said...

האמת יורה דרכו, שקוק החשיב את עצמו לרב של כל המדינה בכללה. וא'''א לפקפק בזה משום דדבר זה מוסכם לכולם, ובפרט מתלמדי מוסדות "רב קוק". אדרבא ואדרבא, הקוק'רז או הקוקים הוכיחר בזה שרבם רצו להשפיע על הכלל כולו. וידוע שבזמן שהוא הי' רב ביפו (טרם שעלה לערה''ק והחזיק ידם של הפושעים שמה)
הוא הלך ביחד עם הגריח''ז להחזיק את היהודים ב"מושבים" שנתרשלו ידם בקיום המצוות. ודעת לנבון נקל, שעיקר סיבת רפוי ידם מן תורה ומצוות הוא הרעיון המר של ה"ציונים". וצריך מי שיראת ה' בעור בקרבו להרחק מהציונים כמטחוי קשת. וכל דברי הנ''ל מיישך שייכם לאנשי הכת. וד''ל ודו''ק ואכמ''ל כלי''ח

Joe in Australia said...

Does anyone know who succeeded R' Schick in Karcag, if it wasn't his kids?

Anonymous said...

As an aside, the famous Badchan Yankel Miller,claims to be from that town

PSOL said...

"I don't know which planet you live on, but all of us here on Earth have clearly seen that the zionist state was a disastorous failure. As a result Jews are now not welcome in most of the world and are in constant danger everywhere else"

Whereas, in the years prior to the State, the whole world welcomed Jews with open arms, and lived lives free from all danger.

Incredible the shtissim mit lockshen these naarisher Hungarians spout.

Joe in Australia said...

So was the Nobel prize winner Avraham Herszko (sp?). He was in my father AH's school, but a couple of years older. Apparently Hungary wanted to make a big deal of its Nobel prize winners a few years back, but it was a bit embarrassing how few of the Jewish ones were willing to attend, and since they constituted the majority of Hungarian prize winners it would have been a bit embarrassing to hold the ceremony.

Anyway, my father actually came from a nearby town which was too small to have its own rabbi. Hence the question about Karcag.

schneur said...

Ed Koch related the folowing story , a ultra Libreral NY politico spoke to an election crowd and related that he had been mugged by members of various minorities, but remained fully committed to liberal ideas and principles - some one got up and said mug him again !
After the Holocaust to state that the State of Israel is not a necessity and proved to be a Makom Miklat, or is a failure (how would you define a success that Sander Deutsch was to be the air Force chief of staff and Aarn teitelbaum the speaker of the Knesseth) you either have to be crazy, or a dogmatic liar. LEts pray that the SM does not get his wish as in the above story.
A quick question , afte the War almost a half million Jews(probably more) survived in Northern Rumania, Slovakia and Hungary,(these are the ethnic group that rebuilt Charedi Judaism) if not in Israel where were these people to go, were the survivors all to go to Chile or maybe Rhodesia, and yes believe me if Belgium admitted even another 50,000 Jews in the alte 1940's you would not have to wait for the Arabs to take up residence there for anti-Jewish actions. IF no Israel all these jews but another 250,000 who survived in Bukowina, Bucharest and Eastern Rumania would all lose ttheir Judaism and ethnic identity in Engls, and other places.Read your history no country wished to admit the DP jews not even the US !! It was baal korcham that they admitted some only on condition that the Fascist anti Comunist from all these east European nations also be admitted as loyal anti Communists.
You know as well as I do that a good portion of Satmar people came to the US via yes Israel as did the rebbe himself.

moish said...

"They may even tell you how his then-uncle the Satmar Rov got him the job, and he later stabbed him in the back by speaking out against him"

Why does the SR deserve this stab in the back? He was an ish emmes to the hilt. You may not agree with what he stood for, but he was consistent. He got the nephew the job....yes, but only until the nephew started entertaining, what to the uncle was, daios kozvos. So, it only proves that there was nothing personal or a vendetta against rav Glassner, but only waht he beleved to be the truth.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...


he= the Klausenberger

some would say that the KR stabbed the SR in the back by calling him der feter L______

you read it wrong!

Anonymous said...

How exactly was the Klausenburger the back stabber, being from Willi I remember exactly who was the Rodef and who was the Nirdaf. By helping a nephew you don"t own him forever as a slave, especialy a giant as the Klausenburger Rov that built Yiddishkiet immediately after the war when the uncle was Resting in nearby Swiss and later in Eretz Yisroel Your revisionist media and 9 books of hagiography will not change 1 iota of the facts What Einie Roi Veloi Zoir

thanbo said...

You seem to have missed the other half of the Dor Revi'i joke. Not only was he the 4th generation from the Chasam Sofer, but he made aliyah, just as Hashem promised Avram at the Bris Bein Habesarim - dor rev'i yashuvu heinah, the 4th generation shall return here (move to Eretz Yisroel). And sho'nuff, in 1928 R' MS Glasner did move to Palestine.

Anonymous said...

Joe of Australia
My Hungarian sources tell me that he died on 1917 at 76 years old, they built him even a Ohel his 2nd son Moshe Aron was Mameleh Mokam in the Rabonas had a long non trimmed beard eventough he learned in Gymanisiun, he died in 1940 from aggravation, and has some grandchildren alive in Israel

shimon said...

The Jewish Community of Karcag was founded in 1855. Rashban was the Rav there since 1869 till his ptira in 1916.

According to all sources he was Orthodox, only recent articles claim he was status quo. Can anyone find out?

IIRC R'Moshe, his son and successor in Karcag, had a doctorate from Munich.

Rashbans's other son was an orthodox rav in (of?) Temesvar, and was succeeded by his son, Meir.

RMS survived shoa, and moved to US where he was a rov of a shul in the city (later succeeded by Rav J. David Bleich) under the name Schuck.

yoel said...

Glasner was a breath of fresh air in that sad neck of the woods replete with fanatic chanyoks.
if anything, satmar is a miserable failure and lemoshol velishnina. israel, in the meantime is going to host the majority of the world's jewish population within a decade.

Joe in Australia said...

My thanks to R' Balbin and others for their assistance. I downloaded some of RSZ Schick's seforim and I'm looking at them now. We live in a marvellous age.

Now, can someone explain exactly what was wrong with the Status-Quo congregations, other than the fact that the drosha was in Hungarian instead of Yiddish?

Anonymous said...

is your name realy Yoel,
probably named after the Reb Yoel Sirkes of Krakow

Anonymous said...

Joe In Australia

Their was noting wrong,the bulk of them were Pressburgh Talmidim, but the Hugarian Rabonim want it to make it very black and white, are you with us or in the enemies camp, no moderate fence sitters

shimon said...

The Takkanos of Nagymihaly defined Hungarian Orthodoxy. Here is a translation:

In the early years, the Status Quo saw the ideal in Hirschian Orthodoxy. Many leaders of German Orthodoxy came (or were chased out) from Hungary: the Breuers, R' A. Hildesheimer (born in Germany, but became a Rov in Eisenstadt) or R' Dovid Zvi Hoffman etc...

yoel said...

No, I'm actually named after yoel teitelbaum but I abhor almost everything he stood for.
My forbears are from Hungary so I know a great deal about the Hungarian mentality. Hungary seems to have had more of its fair share of ignorant boors, chanyoks and extremists-which made them a target of ridicule and hatred for many. Though they also produced some real heroes, people like Chana Szenesh and Dov Gruner to and of course religous leaders like Rav Glasner, zatzal.

SB said...

yoel, I am sure the the satmar rebbe zt'l probably abhors everything that YOU stand for. I see that the only heroes you could find were irreligious Jews (admittedly mesiras nefesh people and probably - unlike you- tinokos shenishbu).

Say plenty about you

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
rabbi halberstam was close to rabbi glaaser and hadthe utmost respect for him, even to the extent of alianating himself from his mentor the rav of nasad

Absolute nonsense. Unless you can bring at least a skerrick of proof to this silly statement

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
"Rav Kook outshone the Satmarer Rov in every area."
I think "Every area" is a little farefetched, Just one example, not getting in to the final pesak on the heter mechira who is right and who is wrong,but his sefer on that subject is a masterpiece,vs. the s
Satmar Rov Teshuvas on that matter.

The sefer Ha'okuv Lemishor by R' Dovid Kohn shlita shows that one of RK's rayos lehetter is based on a misprint , Ayen shom.

Re R' Kook, the sefer Das Hatzionus has a lot of interesting research

from page 100 from page 133

Whoever that writer is. he certainly is doing a great service by opening the eyes of temimusdige Jews who have been led to believe some far-fetched ideas about R' Kook.

The articles about his son are also interesting, but not as important as most of the father's followers were uninterested in his wild ideas

veselovski said...

thanbo said...
You seem to have missed the other half of the Dor Revi'i joke. Not only was he the 4th generation from the Chasam Sofer, but he made aliyah, just as Hashem promised Avram at the Bris Bein Habesarim - dor rev'i yashuvu heinah, the 4th generation shall return here (move to Eretz Yisroel). And sho'nuff, in 1928 R' MS Glasner did move to Palestine.>>

And to the best of my knowledge nearly all of his 'mizrachistishe' descendents - including our new correspondent RDG - did/do not live in israel. But he does have plenty of charedi ones there.
Go figure

yoel said...

The guy that wrote das hatzionus is a one of those overfarfrumt bt's who try to be more catholic than the pope. he is a loser who stifle any dissenting opinions on his website and his book is replete with factual errors and outright ziyufim.

Anonymous said...

What errors and ziyufim?

500 pages of errors?

Come on!
You just have too much hate inside your soul

Anonymous said...

Funny and I though that Das Hatzionus has so much hate? Please he has no idea of what he is talking about. As someone mentioned, RK outshone the SR in every area.

abc said...

To Anon 2.11

'someone mentioned' Great argument.

Anonymous said...

The only thing that one can accuse Rav Kook of was too much Ahavas Yisroel. The same cannot be said of the SR. Moreover, one cannot compare the SR’s knowledge in Torah to Rav Kook’s. Rav Kook was a far superior scholar.

abc said...

Anon, You are a true idiot.

The SR was known far and wide for his absolute and unlimited ahavas yisroel.

Obviously in your case hasinah mekakelkes es hashureh

y said...

The SR doesn't come up to Rav Kook's toenails. Rav Kook was a gentleman, a scholar (his command of Hebrew was nothing short of stunning) and a person who felt at ease in all worlds. He gained the respect of all. He was NOT a fanatic extremist.

Not to say that the SR was an am haarezt, he certainly wasn't but you can't compare a romainishe kop with a litvishe kop...

abc said...


You obviously know nothing about his life and afterlife.
Most gedolei yisroel yisroel in Hungary, Galicia and other parts of Europe were stridently against him and his hashkofos. (That is, despite in his earlier Jaffa-rav years being welcomed in some Aguda conferences.
And even those who were not openly against him held that his hashkafos were treif.

And remember - everything comes out in the long run. There is very little Kookism left in the world (true - partially because his son really messed things up)today. Even in those kreizen (Litvish) where he - or at least his seforim were respected, today any shaychus with Kook is beval yeroeh ubeval yimotsei.
This is DESPITE the fact that RSZ Auerbach z'l and LBCL Rav Elyashiv were and are known as K-sympathisers.
None of their children or talmidim would mention a word about RK .

Kushta ko'eh.

Joe in Australia said...

I've been doing a bit of research on R' Moshe Aaron Schick of Karcag. Apparently he was arrested as a spy in 1939/40, and died after that - hence, I suppose, what one poster called "died of aggravation". I don't understand who the RMS was who was R' J David Bleich's predecessor, as it certainly wasn't him.

His family seems to have moved to Timisoara, and he has descendants in Israel today.

y said...

abc, True and that is because the litvishe velt has become more and more farchanyokt. The fact the litvishe world is becoming more and more conservative and extreme is hardly a measure of Rav Kook's success or lack thereof.

Avrohom said...

The Rabbi Meir Schuck mentioned came from temesvar to the USA, served as rabbi in the Yorkville Synagogue (succeeded by Rabbi JD Bleich) and that shul has a strange history but it was a merger of different Hungarian congregations. he then became rabbi in Bridgeport, and retired to Monsey NY where he died at about 100 years old a few years ago. A strong argument can be made that many middle of the road Hungarian orthodox rabbis had very fine dynasties of chareidi descendants. And just to clarify a point mentioned before, Sholo Hirsch Schuck Rabbi of Karcag was a very exceptional person. he was a moderate but a major force in the push for separation of orthodox Judaism from status quo. If you read his Teshuvos and his Mimoshe Ad Moshe you will see a striking mxiture of moderate views with organisational extremism