Monday, March 23, 2009

It's like 250 years of this......


רבי ברוכ'ל מונקאטשער

G-d makes us find things even when we aren't searching for them. Case in point: Friday's trip to the mall. I thought I was buying a Tallis Koton for my son, but the price for a wool size 16 Chabad was over budget. So I went upstairs and looked at books instead. "I'll get it in BP or CH," I said. There's no way I'm paying those prices here. Which may make you wonder: why get a wool Tallis Koton for a little kid when cotton is just as good and children are only mechuyav in chinuch anyway? But we take pride in our devotion to mitzvos, even when we're young, and even in 90+ degrees. I remember fondly the basketball games in the Yeshivishe camps, where many of the fine the Bnei Torah would play without Tzitzis and I would wear my five pound size 30 extra long wool ones. It instilled in me a pride I wear till this very day. That I was part of a very unique and devoted group, one that took pride in its traditions and in its devotion to Hashem and his mitzvos.

Back to the books. I was looking for something good to read. A friend had recommended the biography on Reb Aron Cohen, the Rosh Yeshiva of Chevroner Yeshivah in Geulah who was prematurely taken from us many years ago while still in his prime. He told me there were some really good pictures, you know, ones that Chassidim laugh at and wonder why they didn't censor them. I figured I had seen them all by now, whether in the biography of Reb Simcha Zissel Broyde, or in Reb Meir (Paritcher) Chodosh's biography, so when I didn't see it I wasn't disappointed, I just looked for something else to buy. Nothing else really piqued my interest; it was more of the same old stuff. Until a little book caught my eye. Could it be? That here in this store that doesn't sell Uncle Moishy DVDs, and chooses its Chabad books very carefully, that they would have a book of this caliber?! I checked the author's name again, and checked the title. There was no mistake, it was THE book!

No, I'm talking about MOAG, I'm talking about שוחרי השם בהרי הקרפטים, by Dezso Schoen, aka דוד שן, who survived the Ghettos and deportations and made it to Israel. The book is controversial because it tells it like it was when it came to Hungary/Carpathia and the goings on there from the time of the Yismach Moshe to the time it ended well over 100 years later. It gives you a very colorful description of his attachment to Chassidus, how it was a "forced" visit to the Chozeh of Lublin that got him involved in the first place. How the dayan in Ujhel accused him in a sefer that the YM gave an Haskomoh to of being a corrupt, money hungry Rov, who despite once being a Torah giant in Galicia sold his soul to the כת and became a shyster who sells amulets to the unknowing masses. The "taynes" are all there, the late davening, the abandonment of Gemoroh for Kabbalah, the excessive drinking. It's the same thing, only played by different characters in a different period. Nothing can be more reassuring than that in today's world where clueless people think they're standing up for Torah when they attack me and my Rebbe.

207 comments:

1 – 200 of 207   Newer›   Newest»
Anonymous said...

May I ask how old you are Tzig?

bahaltener said...

Interesting. I'v heard a story from my friend, which was told by his wife's grandfather from Kolbushev. He was kicked out from yeshiva there (before the war) for being involved in local chaburo of mekubolim. (Because yeshiva "became too Hungarish").

Their roysh hachaburo said to them about limud of the nistar something like that: "Kabolo has hundreds of gates, which lead to it. And you have to find yours, because if you'll try to enter in another - you'll not succeed".

Yosh55 said...

In the r aaron cohen book,the girl on page 24 (hscohen) is the wife of r shlomo freifeld ztl & mother of ramf.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Yosh

care to share?

Anonymous said...

Interesting. History, though, vindicates the YM. It will never vindicate you or your rebbe. Besides, the YM did not unilaterally attack others; you and your rebbe did. The YM was a tzadik and a gaon. Let's just say you are not.

Anonymous said...

Interesting, how the YM dynasty survived and even thrived, when most others did not (I am referring up to and including RYT). Sheker can't have such permanence, so must be that this Dezso guy is full of sheker himself.

schneur said...

1. In the later years of his life Rabi Aren Cohen became very attached to Reb Arele Roth the baal Shomre Emunim and his teachings.
2. Schoen's book is written very well, but it does not pretend to be a 100% historical account. He uses folk tales, legends and factual materials to build his story and takes more than a dash of literary liscense.
3. If Schoen's book interests you (and I loved it) then you ought to read the folowing as well : Leopold Greenwald Toyzent yar Yiden in Ungarn a well documented history(in Yiddish) of Jews in Hungary, written by a Orthodox rav who was also a scholar of Chachmas Israel.This book started me a kid from White Russian extraction in his interest of Hungarian Jews.
Also you ought to read Bays Yisroel by Herzl Opshan a wondeful book about Vishnitz and Jewish life in the area of Northern Rumania (Marmorash Zibenbergen etc)
3. The Yismach Moshe like the Minchas Elozor and the last Lubavitcher rebbe were all obsessed with Mashiach.

Anon1 said...

" History, though, vindicates the YM. It will never vindicate you or your rebbe. Besides, the YM did not unilaterally attack others; you and your rebbe did. The YM was a tzadik and a gaon. Let's just say you are not." Posted by our heroic Anonymous, who is scared to put his name to what he regards as absolute truth.

Who is this Gaon/Tzadik/Kol Yachol "History"? And just how do you know that the YM was a tzadik/gaon while the blogger is not? What criteria do you use to "unilaterally" (wow!where did you learn such a big fancy word? I am impressed!) decide who is a tzadik and gaon? Don't tell me that it is "unilateral hear-say" that you got from somebody - arvoch arvo tzorich! And then of course there is "bilateral hearsay" that will argue with your conclusions, as well as with all so-called "historical vindications".

If you have nothing worthwhile and substantial to say, at the very least take to heart the universal truth of syog lachochmoh shesikoh!

Yosh55 said...

R avram mordchie cohenwas a ledgendary melamad in old jerusalem. He was the fater of the rosh yeshiva hebron r a. Cohen. His granddaughter hiya sara is for some reason in the class picture.she was the wife of r s freifeld ,mother of r a m f ,named after his zadi.

schneur said...

I thought that Reb Aren Cohen was childless ?

Anonymous said...

Tzig would not put in my comment because he is a pathetic little coward and cannot handle emes. He has no pnimius, no soul--that is Chabad.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

no, my friend. your comments don't get in because they're rantings, not comments. I realize you can't help yourself, but that's not my problem.

Try rewriting it without the nonsensical parts.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

By the way;

One thing I'm not is Little....

Anonymous said...

>>no, my friend. your comments don't get in because they're rantings, not comments. I realize you can't help yourself, but that's not my problem.

>>Try rewriting it without the nonsensical parts.

If you can let the shvantz write what he wrote and not let my comments in--which are reasonable, clear, cogent responses to HIS rantings, than you are a very narrow, scared and hateful little man.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

1) he responded to your nonsense.

2) you're a nameless, faceless anonymous to me. Myself and the Rebbe are not.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

anonymous 1:02 am:

why is my age important to you?

Anonymous said...

where in monsey can you buy this book?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I bought the last one.....

Anonymous said...

>>1) he responded to your nonsense.

Facts may be nonsensical, but they remain facts. The shvantz only wrote hate-filled, ad hominum attacks. You let that drivel in. And you did not let me respond.

>>2) you're a nameless, faceless anonymous to me. Myself and the Rebbe are not.

And that is what this is really about. You don't let anything which goes against your warped, nonsensical political agenda. All the hate is permissable. But write a fact based post about you or the rebbe, and you'll never let it in.

That is very, very small of you.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

now you lie too.

I allowed about 90-95% of your comments, most of them smacking of hate, onto the blog.

B said...

"Nothing can be more reassuring than that in today's world where clueless people think they're standing up for Torah when they attack me and my Rebbe."

*Newsflash*
Your Rebbe, through his chasidim, at least, has gone down as the first failed Moshiach since S.Z.
You know that right?
Is it not unreasonable to be skeptical about such a movement?
Do I also have to get into the fact that a large part of your movement also claims the Rebbe is shlita.Is it unreasonable to be skeptical about such a movement?
Be honest now:Had this been the other way around,followers of Rav Shach would decide his is Moshiach, continue the claim after he passes away AND continue to claim he is shlita.Would you not be skeptical about such a movement?
As much respect as Lubavitch has garnered through their outreach, they have also garnered skepticism because of the unheard before things they have done.
Time may be the ultimate judge, if 100 years from now Lubavitch has proven it's religious credentials, just like the chasidic movement of old has, then the skeptics and alarmists will have be proven wrong.
Till then it's "kabdeihu vechashdaihu"

*I have gone out of my way to be respectful, please show maturity and do not censor this post

Anonymous said...

>>I allowed about 90-95% of your comments, most of them smacking of hate, onto the blog.

Now you lie, I have no hate toward anyone. The only hate here is in your small heart, the shvantz who wrote the snarky comments to me above,and the Rebbe himself. No one can seriously learn about the rebbe without being overwhelmed by the starkness of his hatred toward those who were not chassidim.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Thanks for doing the self-insertion of the foot into the mouth...

Anonymous said...

>>Thanks for doing the self-insertion of the foot into the mouth...

This comment simply does not make sense. You just can't answer the charges.

To the sincere individual who pointed out some of the more obvious reasons why Tzig's post comparing the YM's issue with that of the Rebbe's are completely unrelated, forget about being treated with respect here. All you will experience is hate and snarky comments. That's all they know.

Anonymous said...

While we are discussing books about Hungary, that tell it like it was, you can't leave out the best of them all: "Olamo shel Abba".

It's still my favorite book.

b said...

Tzig,
Can you address the question I posed earlier?

Eli M said...

Just wondering, what does R' Baruchel Munkatcher have to do with the post?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

א גוטע קשיא

Munkacs is in the Carpathians too, so.... I'm sure they're discussed in the book too.

Maybe A Litvak said...

:It's the same thing, only played by different characters in a different period. Nothing can be more reassuring than that in today's world where clueless people think they're standing up for Torah when they attack me and my Rebbe."

Thi is old news: Chabad is the only real chasiduss and Maran just rehashed the old fights, ad nauseum.

Ironic, the Yismoch Moshe's eynekel did not like your hero.

The Yismach Moshe z"l used to think Mashiach was comming when he heard a loud noise and would run outside with excitement (BTW, so did R' Nosson, the Lakewood Mashgiach)

Did your Rebbe do that or he thought that the noise had to be nothing, because that would mean that someone else was chosen as the Messiah. (Maybe A Litvak?)

bored beyond belief said...

"Chabad is the only real chasidus"

that's R' Velvel's line

"Ironic, the Yismoch Moshe's eynekel did not like your hero"

Ironic what a pitiful mis-informed person you are. Get up to speed on history, then check back in.

b said...

Tzig
If you will, can you please address my question.
Thank you

nsker said...

You just can't answer the charges.

This is old news: Chabad is the only real chasiduss and Maran just rehashed the old fights, ad nauseum.

It is astonishing how these people see the same red cloth in every post. Do they even need to read it?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

B

I'll get to it later, iy"h.

Maybe A Litvak said...

Bored,

Who was involved in the uproar regarding the BESH"T's mehalech these days. R'Velvel?

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

b,
Tzig is having too much fun moderating the anon sahadis too give your query serious consideration. Give him a couple hours to get over the shock of seeing a serious and respectful issue-based challenge on his blog instead of the usual drek.

Maybe A Litvak said...

"Get up to speed on history, then check back in"

Which version of history: the world's or the one espoused in 669? Or maybe you mean Rakefet's version of history as a viable alternative?

Again: I am curious if in 771 they have stories of The Rebbe z'l running with excitement to great the Messiah. Or maybe, only people who really anticpate Moshiach acted that way, like some Litvak in New Jersey.

I would appreciate an intelligent response, instead of trying to sling mud at R' Nosson z'l or whatever defense mechanisms you were trained to use on those who reject your deity and don't want to be accepted under the loving umbrella of Chabad

shmuel grainom said...

so now you will end up having over spent the budget anyway. the book plus the "cheaper" tallis koton, equals more than simply buying the more expensive tzitzis.
but atleast you patronise anash so its ok to spend extra money

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Grainom

the book was a must, not just an impulse purchase.

I may not end up patronizing Anash after all. They're cheaper in BP at the wholesaler.

Anonymous said...

http://www.bhol.co.il/news_read.asp?id=8668&cat_id=2
just what you needed to hear

Anonymous said...

Hirshel
If you read the book well you can see on the Titelbaum family that history repeats itself by them constantly every few decades. the story of the Tietelbaum chasidim making a pogrom in the shul that the Kahane family built reminds you of the illfamed pogrom in Satmar Rodney Street shul. Nothing will stop that family to fill their ambitions

Anonymous said...

Maybe
You are as corny as a Litvak Vaidie, please brush up your sense of humor and come back

Anon1 said...

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...
B
I'll get to it later, iy"h.

Thanks for adding "im yirtzeh Hashem." Let me inform you that this will never be: Hashem already told all of us "al ta'aneh chesil etc." If you ask a moreh hora'ah whether you are allowed to post the chiruf vegiduf against gedolei and kedoshei elyon, no doubt he will say (at the very least)that this is a very serious halachic problem.Maybe you allow them to post - just to expose their endlessly repetitive invective demonstrating their ignorant, hate-filled, blasphemous characters, as Chazal said - like dogs always returning to their vomit.

Please Tzig, don't respond. Let's at best (if allowed) se them for what they are. But every response gives them new excuses to vomit back their filth (like our hero-Anonymous). That's the only way these empty vessels with an empty life devoid of Torah and mitzvos (never mind any inkling of yiras Shomayim) get their jollies. Best response therefore is, as Chazal ruled, to ignore - and thereby frustrate - them.

Absolutely nothing is gained by responding. Proof: those dogs keep vomiting, re-swallowing their vomit and vomiting again and again, with exactly the same comments and "questions" post after post - regardless what they are told. You are dealing with people described in Yeshayahu 6:9-10 and 44:18. If they would really want answers - let them go to a bet midrash and have somebody teach them some Torah.

Anonymous said...

Anon 1, in my opinon, is describing most of Chabad and Foyleh Kahan!

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

Yeah, but B isn't spewing hate. He's asking simple questions and phrasing them respectfully. He deserves an answer. You might be right regarding our anonymous heroes though.

Shaya said...

I think anonomous is fine.

Anon1 said...

Modeh B'Miktzas:
First of all, B is not asking any questions. He is making statements! So there is nothing to answer. He tries to be provocative and extract a reaction so that he can come back.

“Your Rebbe, through his chasidim, at least, has gone down as the first failed Moshiach since S.Z.”

You call that respectful???

”Do I also have to get into the fact that a large part of your movement also claims the Rebbe is shlita.Is it unreasonable to be skeptical about such a movement?”

Again statements. First claiming a premise which is blatantly false (“a large part”), and then condemning the whole “movement”. He may as well say that a large part of “orthodox Jews” are merely orthoprax, or believe in Bible-criticism, or metaphorical readings of Ma’aseh Bereishit and the Chumash as a whole, and then conclude to be skeptical of the whole “movement” of orthodoxy.

”Be honest now:Had this been the other way around,followers of Rav Shach would decide his is Moshiach, continue the claim after he passes away AND continue to claim he is shlita.Would you not be skeptical about such a movement?”

And just why should we be skeptical about that? Who cares? What halachic or hashkafic (re 13 Ikarim) difference does that make?I might call them fools and dismiss them, but that's it.

But if you want to talk about followers of certain individuals spewing forth sinas chinom, condemning gedolei Yisroel (and not just chassidim or chabad) as heretics, saying that thousands of people using mikvehs that follow a stringent halachic view lauded by gedolei haposkim – that they are guilty of being bo’alei nidos, that their wines are yayin nessech etc. etc. etc., should I be skeptical about their “movement”, or spell out that they fall into the category of kol hapossel bemumo possel, and whoever defends them kabdeihu vechashdehu???

“Time may be the ultimate judge, if 100 years from now Lubavitch has proven it's religious credentials, just like the chasidic movement of old has, then the skeptics and alarmists will have be proven wrong. Till then it's "kabdeihu vechashdaihu".”

Again making a categorical statement and interesting juxtaposition. First he postulates that presently they lack the “religious credentials”, and then claims we will have to wait 100 years to see what happens by then. Whatever will be, for B the jury is in already. Besides, I clearly see his chashdeihu, but there is not the slightest hint of any kabdeihu (see above).

Hymie the Great said...

If only Chabad was as sensitive toward others as it is to themselves! If Chabad would actually be mikayem vahavta loreyacha kamoicha, they would never had unilaterally maligned the Chazon Ish!

Maharam Schick Fun Norelco said...

"Anon 1, in my opinon, is describing most of Chabad and Foyleh Kahan!"


" they would never had unilaterally maligned the Chazon Ish"

Always get a chuckle of der farbrenta litvikis, so enraged over a supossed slight to the CI, and then they proceed to defecate in the face of the CI every morning as they raise razor to chin!

Anonymous said...

"No one can seriously learn about the rebbe without being overwhelmed by the starkness of his hatred toward those who were not chassidim." Interesting statement about the Rebbe.Does that raise the Rebbe or lower him (depending on your view) to the same level of Rav shachs narrow minded and bigoted rants of hatred towards so many individuals and different kreizen in Yidishkeit?

Yossi said...

>>Always get a chuckle of der farbrenta litvikis, so enraged over a supossed slight to the CI, and then they proceed to defecate in the face of the CI every morning as they raise razor to chin!

Supposed? The rebbe malinged him for no reason. What do you mean, "supposed?"

Rav Shach never made any bigoted rants about any Jews. Chabad made up a lot of stories about this because they could not handle the fact that the Gadol Hador--and nearly all Jewish leaders--took serious issue with the Rebbe.

The Rebbe, on the other hand, started up with the CI for no reason. And, in his apologetic for that am hooretz's comment about the CI, he insulted all yidding who don't learn Tanya!

Anonymous said...

"Rav Shach never made any bigoted rants about any Jews. Chabad made up a lot of stories about this because they could not handle the fact that the Gadol Hador--and nearly all Jewish leaders--took serious issue with the Rebbe."
What planet are you from? Did you ever read or learn his "Michtovim Umaimorim" where he attacks, amongst others,Rav YB"S ZT"L,Rav Adin Shteinzaltz,Rav Shlomo Goren Z"L,The Lubavitcher Rebbe ZT"L,the entire Lubavitcher movement,The entire Religious Zionist movement? and thats only the tip of the iceberg.It's all in print my friend.Just google it or go out and buy the sefer.

Hymie the Small said...

"Rav Shach never made any bigoted rants about any Jews. Chabad made up a lot of stories about this because they could not handle the fact that the Gadol Hador....took serious issue with the Rebbe."

Fascinating statement with the reisha contradicting the seifa.... Another indication how the "minds" (?) and "logic" (?) of those weirdos work. Now I see why the Tzig allows their postings: he is simply giving them enough rope to hang themselves.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

שששששששששש
don't tell

Anonymous said...

>>"Michtovim Umaimorim" where he attacks, amongst others,Rav YB"S ZT"L,Rav Adin Shteinzaltz,Rav Shlomo Goren Z"L,The Lubavitcher Rebbe ZT"L,the entire Lubavitcher movement,The entire Religious Zionist movement? and thats only the tip of the iceberg.It's all in print my friend.Just google it or go out and buy the sefer.


This is hillarious. I went through all the chalakim of the Michtovim. You are quoting Chabad propoganda--nothing more. The malicious slander you and your cronies have resorted to will remain a blight on Chabad.

>>Fascinating statement with the reisha contradicting the seifa.... Another indication how the "minds" (?) and "logic" (?) of those weirdos work. Now I see why the Tzig allows their postings: he is simply giving them enough rope to hang themselves.

All this perverse katon can do is resort to ad hominum attacks. If you are so blind that you see a contradiction, you are clearly an idiot.

Anonymous said...

seems like you only began reading the book, later on there is the episode of the Vizhnitzer crowing Reb Mendele as a Moshiach.

I read the book, I came away with a feeling of awe about the greatness of the Yetef Lev. His refusal to condemn the Sadigorer even under severe pressure of the Tzanzer Rav is highly impressive indeed.

When he passed away he was king of Hungarian Jews and Chasidim בפרט
and for good reason.

Yosef 718

Anonymous said...

"This is hillarious. I went through all the chalakim of the Michtovim. You are quoting Chabad propoganda--nothing more. The malicious slander you and your cronies have resorted to will remain a blight on Chabad."

Yes indeed. Here are but a few snippets of what this hatemonger had to say about true gedolim of the last generation or two...

On Rabbi Joseph Baer Soloveitchik;

Michtavim U-Ma’amarim (Bnei Brak, 5848 -5755), vol. 4 pages 36-40. [RS’s article is full] “of things that it is forbidden to hear”. See also ibid. p. 107 [in reference to RS’s work: “the book contains heresy, in the literal sense of the word. The mind is boggled by such a sight”.

It must be emphasized that Rabbi Shach was strongly apposed to communal disharmony, as he himself asserted many times. Yet, in such a situation he felt compelled to speak out in order to safeguard the Jewish heritage. For Rabbi Shach it was better to cause ruptures in the Jewish community than to allow thousands of Jewish hearts and minds to be poisoned by RS heresy.


On Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz;

Rabbi Shach, Michtavim U-Ma’amarim. vol. 4 pp. 65-7. [In a letter written two days before Rosh HaShanah in the year 5749]: “…All his works contain heresy. It is forbidden to debate with Steinsaltz, because, as a heretic, all the debates will only cause him to degenerate more. He is not a genuine person (ein tocho ke-baro) and everyone is obliged to distance themselves from him. This is the duty of the hour (mitzvah be-sha’atah). It will generate merit for the forthcoming Day of Judgement.”

See also ibid. vol. 5 pp. 163. There, Rabbi Shach declares that it will be impossible for Rabbi Steinsaltz to do Teshuvah (repent) and make right the colossal damage that his edition of the Talmud has wrought. See also ibid. p. 28-9. Rabbi Shach explained that he was not lacking in Ahavas Yisrael.On the contrary he was saving the souls of all the Jewish people who had the potential to be influenced by the impure works of rabbi Steinsaltz.


On Rabbi Shlomo Goren;

Rabbi Shach Michtavim U-Ma’amarim, vols.1-2, pp.73-4; vol. 6, pp.78-9. “He [Rabbi Goren] is not a Rabbi and his Halachik rulings are worth nothing. One may not eat food manufactured under his supervision or carrying his seal of approval. He belongs outside the camp (michutz la-machaneh mo’shavo)…he is worse than the Reformers. One must mourn for the Sefer Torah that was burned”.

Rabbi Shach acknowledged that Rabbi Goren claimed that he was not violating the law and had authored a book in which he justifies his opinion. However, although he himself had not read it, those who had, had informed him that it was no more than “a joke, falsification of facts and lies”.

Rabbi Yehudah Levi;

Michtavim U-Ma’amarim vol. 1, pp. 107-8. [Book expressing ‘Hirschian’ philosophy was banned and the author severely chastised for expressing views that are held to be wrong in certain circles.]


On Religious Zionists;

Michtavim U-Ma’amarim vols.1-2, pp.75-6. [Although Rabbi Shach was most passionate in his views on the secular Israelis, he also inveighed heavily against religious Zionists (or ‘quasi aggudists’: “agguda’im le-machatzeh”). Rabbi Shach once said:] “I am compelled to tell you”, that they are essentially no different. It is “the same pot” of Tereifah meat; “the only difference is that their [the religious Zionist’s] pot is covered with a knitted yarmulke (Kippah Serugah)!” Religious Zionists have done nothing for the benefit of Torah causes in Israel. They are void of Torah and the fear of Heaven and are not capable of producing any gedolim. Any success that we – the Torah world have – is despite, not because, of them. Those quasi-aggudists who harbor pro-Zionistic sympathies may be observant Jews but they are guilty of Shittuf! (‘metaphorical idolatry’). They include Yeshivah high schools in the ambit of their interests – “Oy! What a sharp sword on the soul of the Yeshivos!”

Of course there are also his vile diatribes against Rabbi Menachem Kasher, Rabbi Avraham Yitzchok HaKohain Kook, Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, Rabbi M.M. Schneerson, and…...

Anonymous said...

Yosef 718
Maybe I am dreaming but I remember seeing in the preface to the Tzemach Tzadik some hints of his being Moshiach,
Where is there available more info on the Viznitz messianic era? I remember seeing some minor stuff by the toldos Kol Arye.

Anonymous said...

Yosef
By reading the Yetev Lev Takonas Hakehila and the Klausenburgers Rebbes biographical sketches of his Ziede, he comes across as a man of tolerance, obviously the other side of the family don't agree to that view,and they will claim that the Klausenbuger sipurim are fiction, but from all corners it looks like that he is right.

Anonymous said...

Can someone bring up a transcript of famous hate speech of "Maran" in Binyonie Heumah?
He was mafkir blood of thousands of Jewish families that are shomrie shabos, Kashrus, Tharas hamishpoche, etc..

Anonymous said...

To anonymousWednesday, March 25, 2009 5:03:00 PM.
Why the long loud silence?
So all that was quoted above from "michtovim umaimorim" are figments of our imagination?I would suggest that you go back and learn it again. This time don't forget to read those parts skipped the first time around, if there was a first time.

Anonymous said...

About the Yetev Lev there can be no argument. He was not a zealot period no comma.

When he was niftar he could count 300 Rabonim in all of Hungary as his talmidim. He was Rav and Rosh Yeshiva of Sighet for 50 years! and had no machlokes all his life with nobody.

Just as an illustration; Reb Shaul Brach who was first an Ashkanazi Oberlander Gaon, and later became Rav of Kashau, writes that the first time he heard a chasidic Rav speak, it was once when on the day of סליחות של שלוש עשרה מדות and he was by chance in Sighet.

The yetev lev got up almost midnight and gave 3 and 3/4 hour Drasha with great emotion and to his surprise Reb Shaul noted that it was the first time that he heard somebody give a Teshuva Drasha but he had not one word of criticism or rebuke for his listeners, and "if there was a word of criticism it was only to shamayim, arguing to Hashem on why the suffering of Jews is continuing" Because of hearing such a non typical drasha unlike other Ashkanazi Rabonim, Reb Shaul became a chasid.

This shows a lot about the type of person the yetev lev was.

P.S. Even the Satmar Rav was careful not speak Kano'es during chodesh Elul and Tishrei, if anything he only scantly mentioned Zionism. He had that tradition from the Yetev Lev.

Yosef 718

Anonymous said...

>>So all that was quoted above from "michtovim umaimorim" are figments of our imagination?I would suggest that you go back and learn it again. This time don't forget to read those parts skipped the first time around, if there was a first time.

Hillarious!!! You are using Chabad talking points, not quotes. You obviously never touched his many valumes of michtavim. Besides, it pales in comparison to the hate the rebbe had toward the Chazon Ish and all bnei yeshiva, whom he called "shluchim of the samach mem." Those are direct quotes, btw.

Rav Shach loved everyone. The Rebbe hated everyone who did not subscribe to his narrow views.

Anonymous said...

Anon,
"hate the rebbe had toward the Chazon Ish "
where did you see the hate? it was a simple talk of disagreement on his shito of not learning Penimous hatora" which is the legitimate line of all people that are into Penimous hatora, you can holler your stupid line forever but that is the fact

Yirmiyahu said...

And Rav Shach may have disagreed with others about how the Torah should be learned, but you call that hate.

At least Rav Shach did not unilaterally attack a deceased gadol hador based on a new fangled definition of the term. "Pnimius HaTorah" was used by gedolim from the Ohr HaChaim to the Vilna Gaon. NO ONE ever used the term to mean "Tanya and Tanya only" until the Rebbe came along. The fact the rebbe used Ahsrei mi sheba lokaan to mean pnimius haTorah which he defined as Tanya only was nothing short of extreme narrow mindedness.

Such narrowmindedness and disrespect (the way he referred to the letters sent to him and sarcastically referred to the Chazon Ish which is still on tape) is demonstrative of extreme hate and vitriol.

Vlad said...

why do we need to rehash this old garbage stuff agaian and again.

The facts are clear....the ENTIRE yeshiva world 'dumps' on Rabbi Karelitz, witness the overwhelming majority of 'babyfaces' populating der oiylum hayeshivos.

And as far the founder of the Degel party, if someone can let slip from his lips the possibility of the wolrd exisiting as is for another two thousand years, and in a state of golus no less, a direct contradiction of a Chazal...well it harkens to R' Yochonon Kohen Godel, leader of his generation, but who succumbed to Apikorsos in his final years.

Now that we settled that, let's move on!

Anonymous said...

"Hillarious!!! You are using Chabad talking points, not quotes. You obviously never touched his many valumes of michtavim. Besides, it pales in comparison to the hate the rebbe had toward the Chazon Ish and all bnei yeshiva, whom he called "shluchim of the samach mem." Those are direct quotes, btw."
And they call Lubavitchers brainwashed?
I quoted chapter and verse the exact words of vitriol and hate that "Maran" used in "Maimorim Umichtovim" with the exact Mareh mekomos and you call it "Lubavitch talking points"?
These are "direct quotes"?
I challenge you and the other velts Chochom posting above,to post the entire so called attack of the Rebbe on the Chazon Ish,as well as the alleged statement where the Rebbe calls "all Bnai yeshiva shluchim of the samech mem".I'm not talking about your so called "direct quotes",and tell me everyone knows it,it's on the internet or some other inane proof.I mean the whole thing in it's entirety not two words taken out of context, so once and and for all we can get[past these calumnies poured on the Rebbe.

Anonymous said...

"Hillarious!!! You are using Chabad talking points, not quotes. You obviously never touched his many valumes of michtavim. Besides, it pales in comparison to the hate the rebbe had toward the Chazon Ish and all bnei yeshiva, whom he called "shluchim of the samach mem." Those are direct quotes, btw."
And they call Lubavitchers brainwashed?
I quoted chapter and verse the exact words of vitriol and hate that "Maran" used in "Maimorim Umichtovim" with the exact Mareh mekomos and you call it "Lubavitch talking points"?
These are "direct quotes"?
I challenge you and the other velts Chochom posting above,to post the entire so called attack of the Rebbe on the Chazon Ish,as well as the alleged statement where the Rebbe calls "all Bnai yeshiva shluchim of the samech mem".I'm not talking about your so called "direct quotes",and tell me everyone knows it,it's on the internet or some other inane proof.I mean the whole thing in it's entirety not two words taken out of context, so once and and for all we can get[past these calumnies poured on the Rebbe.

Chayim said...

Tzig, why don't you demand and enforce that all posters use some kind of name (at the very least Annymous1, Anonymous2 etc) or whatever. Thus responders can identify who they rspond to. If someone is too lazy to do so - simply don't post him. It is more than ridiculous to have 10 different people on all sides of a debate all using the same monicker. This was requested already before, but no attention is paid to it. Time to start now.

Anon 3 said...

"Hillarious!!! You are using Chabad talking points, not quotes. You obviously never touched his many valumes of michtavim."
Hilarious!!!You are using Chabad bashing talking points.You obviously never touched the over 400 published volumes of the Rebbi's Sichos and Igros Kodesh on every aspect of Niglah and Nister science and philosophy and so much more subjects and nary a word of hatred against the Chazon Ish or any one else for that matter.
Get real.

Y said...

>>I quoted chapter and verse the exact words of vitriol and hate that "Maran" used in "Maimorim Umichtovim" with the exact Mareh mekomos and you call it "Lubavitch talking points"?

You did not. These are the often used drivel chabad has produeced in its talking points against the Gadol Hador. You obviously never went through his sefer.

See the video where the "rebbe" speaks to Rav Kahana. There you would see the hatred the rebbe had for everyone.

Maybe said...

Oh my. I am having a revelation. Do I sound as uninformed when I comment about the Rebbe as when you guys comment on Maran?

You Anons contradicted yourself. The Rebbe wasn't mevazeh the Chazon Ish, because he was merely reflecting the views of (sarcastically?) a different mehalech, but Litvaks are mevazah, chalilah, the Chazon Ish, by shaving. Wow. I guess that logic can not be understood bayfen nigleh. No wonder we have trouble communicating. We are probably speaking different languages.

Re: Maran's letters. You guys miss the jugular (from your pov) and try to pull at hair. You don't have to be a genious to figure out that the people criticized in those letters had treyfa hashkafas and were influenced by modern trends of thought. The ones that didn't make it in are SO much jucier. Every bar bey Rav knows them. By quoting letters, you sound like an historian who met someone from hundreds of years ago and tries telling him what they main points to focus on in his community.

Maybe A Litvak said...

Anon 3

All of that kumt nisht tzu a shtikeleh Chazon Ish.

I think he was sober and spent a considerabe time writing each shtickel.

Anon 3 said...

Maybe,
You said
"All of that kumt nisht tzu a shtikeleh Chazon Ish."
I don't claim to be a boki in Chazon Ish and I did not make any claims as to whose "shtikalech" are greater but since you brought up the subject
am I to assume that you have learned all of the Rebbes "shtikalech", both in nigleh and nister and otherwise, so that that you can in all honestly make your above statement with such surety? The question is not a facitous one.

Maybe A Litvak said...

Anon3

Gehuevert Torah and giplapeled, are clearly distinguishable. I am not saying that it wan't creative, but, the precision and work that went into one shtickal Chazon Ish that had ramifications for so many unmentioned places in Shas that he worked out, but didn't metnion in the shtickel, is different than a long windy shtickel though of on the spot. It is called 'quality'

Benk'l Boy said...

"Gehuevert Torah and giplapeled, are clearly distinguishable. I am not saying that it wan't creative, but, the precision and work that went into one shtickal Chazon Ish that had ramifications for so many unmentioned places in Shas that he worked out, but didn't metnion in the shtickel, is different than a long windy shtickel though of on the spot. It is called 'quality'"

MAYBE A LITVAK????

Only a deluded, self-absorbed, full blown snag, whos entire universe extends as far as his navel (I'm being generous), can be such a blowhard.

"so many unmentioned places"

Which you, of course, in your brilliance, discerned.

Living proof, that a Cheider Yingel mit a trop Bittul is worth more then these self-serving, pompous Bnei Torah (sic).

Thank you Tzig, for providing the venue to draw in these neanderthals. I thought this species was extinct.

Anonymous said...

Yirmiya
A Neier Massie
In every school that they were sure about them selves, as the Zidichover and the Komarner had their own style in Kabala, and the diliked the AR style and many others in Kabala,
Thr Leshem is fire on his style of kabala and disagrees even with the Nefesh Hachaim
Lets go closer to home. The CI uses quite harsh words regarding Mussar in his Emuna Ubitochen and in his gilyonas Hagrach against Brisk,
Please don"t teach Lubavitcher Rebbe Ahavas Yisroel and Menschlichkiet,

Anonymous said...

Maybe
After all your CI PR, you probably know that the bottom line is that most of his pesokim were not Niskabel by klal yisroel I admit he was Big goan,
Shiurim
Mikvoas
Tzadik in the sefer torah
Electric on shabos is binyan
Genarators on shabos
Cholov Akum is Mutar

And so on and on..

Maybe A Litvak said...

"Living proof, that a Cheider Yingel mit a trop Bittul is worth more then these self-serving, pompous Bnei Torah (sic)."

Wow. You have a command of language; form and substance coupled withe emotion and a mesorah. I am sure you can go on for hours with such qualatative 'reid'. Maybe you can fill up a couple of shelves with your rantings. I am impressed

The obvious counter, should have been that the Rebbe really had all the sugyos worked out when he thought of a new mehalceh after he wasn't capable of driving a car

Were you referring to the statement of 'der ergste Litvak is besser vey der cheshevster Lubab vay'll ere dint der Aibershter, uhn der chabadtzker deyned zayn Rebbe'?

BTW, in this century, there were many Litvaks who died young and childless just for their Rebbe

Anon

What does the pesakim of the Chazon Ish being mekubel, have to do with anything?

Anyways, Rambam writes that it is ussor for a Melech to get inebriated

Maybe A Litvak said...

"Lets go closer to home. The CI uses quite harsh words regarding Mussar in his Emuna Ubitochen and in his gilyonas Hagrach against Brisk,"

He had a warm relationship with R'Chaim (he actually went through each shtickel) when they were both in the same city for a tekufah. He also had a respectul relationship with ther Rov.

Maybe A Litvak said...

How come my geoynes wasn't recorded for prosperity

anon3 said...

The Rebbi "inebriated" iz geven mer baim seichel then other gedailem nichtererheit.Just as an aside there was only time that the Rebbe was truely "inebriated" was on a Purim early in his rebistve.

Maybe A Litvak said...

anon3

You raise a good point. Was his alcohal tolerance level a bigger nes then walking on water? It is a good shaylah

I bet you Pharoah would have went to the Nile more than once a day if he was drinking like that

A little closer to home

Did your Rebbe ever smile?
Those making miracles with the dark forces were not happy campers. It is the old prubber.

Maybe A Litvak said...

BTW,

I secificully mentioned 'not able to dirve a car', because that is dependant solely on the blood alcohoal level, not on the mental state.

The Rambam says that it is prohibited for a Melech to drink the amount a dayan can't drink that would possel him for hoyrah.

Maybe A Litvak said...

"The Rebbi "inebriated" iz geven mer baim seichel then other gedailem nichtererheit."

To you. Can one drink a lot of kool aid and still be more baim sechel or baim zich than others? Doe kool aid cause 'inebriation' or a 'high' or a translike state? Can you elaberate, or only RMMS was more baim sechel after the chemicals entered his system?

Anonymous said...

>>Please don"t teach Lubavitcher Rebbe Ahavas Yisroel and Menschlichkiet,

If he would have learned about it, he would not have supported the derogatory statements made about the CI.

And that is the problem.

anon3 said...

"If he would have learned about it, he would not have supported the derogatory statements made about the CI."For the umpteenth time, what exactly were the "derogatory statements" that the Rebbe made by the the Rebbe about the Chazon Ish?
Maybe,
If you get off your high horse (or is it your low horse?) and start writing bloshon bnai odom instead of your incomprehensible gibberish (except for your derogatory and insulting spewing against the Rebbe, which does seem make it through your blathering,some semblance of intelligent repartee can be held.Otherwise it doesn't seem as si do mit vemen tzu gein tzum tish vail si felt dir ah shreiful.

Anonymous said...

>>Maybe,
If you get off your high horse (or is it your low horse?) and start writing bloshon bnai odom instead of your incomprehensible gibberish (except for your derogatory and insulting spewing against the Rebbe, which does seem make it through your blathering,some semblance of intelligent repartee can be held.Otherwise it doesn't seem as si do mit vemen tzu gein tzum tish vail si felt dir ah shreiful.

Someone who is clearly incapable of writing a single sentence in clear English should not refer to my posts as "blathering." I understand you lack intelligence and substance. I can sympathize with the fact that you have a lower neshama. However, you will not communicate with me unless you learn English.

anon3 said...

"Someone who is clearly incapable of writing a single sentence in clear English should not refer to my posts as "blathering." I understand you lack intelligence and substance. I can sympathize with the fact that you have a lower neshama. However, you will not communicate with me unless you learn English."
So let me get this straight.Is "anonymous 5:41 PM" and "MAYBE a litvak" one and the same?If not, I think I deserve an apology from "anonymous 5:41".I did not address the above statement to you but to "MAYBE".Apparently your'e the one that has difficulty in understanding English.
In any case it's interesting to note that we have posters on this blog site who have the amazing ability in recognizing the levels of neshomos of other posters, I am simply underwhelmed.
My question to you was , what exactly were the "derogatory statements" that the Rebbe made by the the Rebbe about the Chazon Ish ?Nothing more.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

NOT AGAIN!!!!!

anon3 said...

Tzig,You said"NOT AGAIN!!!!!"
Your right.I don't expect an answer from the above accuser or any of the other accusers because there is no answer.As we know it's a bunch of hogwash that has taken on it's own life and become part of the Snaggy theology.You have my word that as far as I'm concerned it will not be asked again.

Maybe A Litvak said...

I am confused, a person without a Rebbe and a guiding light. I think I am going to find an ideology that encourages substance abuse. Maybe some Breslovers are recruiting.

For the record

MAL is always MAL, never Anon, except for the one time Maybe forgot the AL

Never said 'blathering'

Didn't make the biyzuy Chazon Ish claim; don't know anything about it. I merely said (deragatory?)

Someone made an inane analogy to Chazon Ish's critque on R'Chaim to which I responded that they had a warm relationship. I am curious of the Rebbe of Chabad had warm relationships with people he ostensbily opposed. (After you ramble about Maran, remember to answer the question)

My impression is that Chabdnikers have trouble with the Chazon Ish. Can any one enlighten me to the reason behind that or am I just drank to much Benedict (which the Monks used to drink, coincidence?)

Whoever insulted me personaly, please, I am a tinok shenishbah and if you put on that warm smile maybe you can save my soul. Please, don't make a chillul Hashem an turn me off from authentic Judaism. Never give up

anon3

Is it a groyseh shreifulah, or a kleynuh, uhber a vichtigah?

There should be a lot of chasunos bikoruv

anon 3 said...

"My impression is that Chabdnikers have trouble with the Chazon Ish. Can any one enlighten me to the reason behind that or am I just drank to much Benedict (which the Monks used to drink, coincidence?)"
I think that the "trouble" had to do with the pesokim of the Chazon Ish vis a vis the pesokim of Rav Chaim noeh who was a Lubavitcher and predated the Chazon Ish.

Maybe A Litvak said...

anon3

All it was a machloykes in psak?

I guess that means that there is nor real discord. OK

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

It started as a machlokes in Psak, but the Litwaukees made it a very personal disagreement.

The Steipler had very - let's say - sharp letters to RACN for not accepting the psak of his BIL the CI. Better said, for DARING to argue and not accept his new Psokim.

Maybe A Litvak said...

Tzig
Need more info. Which psakim where they and why did he care if RACN listened to them? R' Shlomo Zalman argued on the Chazon Ish!
They obviously were new issues if RACN had to pasken on it.
BTW, who is RACN?

Anonymous said...

>>My question to you was , what exactly were the "derogatory statements" that the Rebbe made by the the Rebbe about the Chazon Ish ?Nothing more.

The source was quoted at least three times over the last few months on this blog. Suffice it to say, the Rebbe agreed with a statement made by a certain am hooretz when he was drunk which stated that the CI, now that he is dead, is jealous of any child in Tomchei Tmimim who learns Tanya.

Then, as now, people were aghast with the insolence of this boor. The Rebbe, however, agreed with him, and fabricated a very loose support for it--which only made things worse.

Its one thing to say Tanya is precious. Its another to unilaterally insult a Gadol Hador like that and to insult everyone who sent letters to the Rebbe about it.

Lubavitchers argue (1) that the Rebbe was simply arguing for the primacy of Tanya. This is untrue as he did not write, "Look, you have to learn Tanya. That is our way." Instead, he encouraged the insult and mocked all those who found it for the reckless, childish behavior that it was. (2) Some argue that the Rebbe is entitled to insult the Chazon Ish, as they are in machlokes. This is also untrue. The Chazon Ish never argued with the Rebbe about this issue. He never said Tanya cannot be learned (as the Rebbe claimed he did--which is serious motzi shem ran).

Either way, it was a surprising thing for the rebbe to say. Most people before this happened would never have imagined that a younger man who did not have the CI's bona fides would talk in such a repulsive manner in public.

I figure some here may find my words insulting. They are not intended to insult anyone. They are merely to describe the gut reaction that I am and all my friends had when we first read this really disappointing and fundamentally demeaning maamar.

BBB said...

"who is RACN?"


You really are a boob...and a little boy, for that matter.

Does your mama know your snooping around the internet, 'doin' big boy stuff'?

anon3 said...

"Its one thing to say Tanya is precious. Its another to unilaterally insult a Gadol Hador like that and to insult everyone who sent letters to the Rebbe about it."
As Tzig said "enough already" about this subject, so without belaboring the issue, there is one point I would like to make.
Throughout our history there have been much worse recriminations between Gedolai Yisroel. To name bought a few, read what Rav Yakov Emden wrote and said about Rav Yonoson Eiebshutz,The Ran and many other Gedolem of the time, about the Rambam.The Minchos Elozer about Reb Yoilesh Teitelbaum (Satmar)and many others,Reb Boruch Mezebutzer about the Bal Hatanya Vshulchan Aruch,The Sar Sholom MeBelz about Reb Yisroel Ruzhener and yes Rav Shach about many to numerous to mention.
My father A"H told me that as a Alexander Cheder Yingel in Poland he was taught to say "Shaketz tishktzeno" when passing a Gerrer shtibel.The fights beetween the Musserniks and the anti's and on and on.I am not excusing all of this but sad to say it has been part and parcel of our heritige medor doros but we still look at all these individuals as true Gedolim in spite of all.
However when it comes to Rebbe and the Chazon Ish, this issue has been blown way out of proportion.It seems to have been in bedded into the psych of many in the Litveshe velt and ingrained into it's dogma.
It's time to stop with the accusations and recriminations.The world and even more so the Torah world has much greater problems to tackle.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

WOW! That is something.

שקץ תשקצנו when you pass a Gerrer Shtiebel? are you sure?

Anonymous said...

>>It's time to stop with the accusations and recriminations.The world and even more so the Torah world has much greater problems to tackle.

How convenient.

I already addressed the so called machlokes justification. There simply was no machlokes. The CI never talked about the rebbe. Some drunken fool used his name to make a point. The rebbe justified it with shoddy proof. He also insulted the feelings of everyone who addressed him. Clearly, he did not get the point about why so many people (frankly, everyone outside the rebbe's little world) found it insulting beyond imagination. And neither do you.

But the issue will not go away. The rebbe did not make a machlokes. He supported the malicious insult of a gadol b'yisroel.

And it cannot be forgiven.

Gansburg said...

1) Reb Fole Kahan was no fool, no boor and not very drunk. He was a Talmid Chochom who had great mesiras nefesh in Russia and languished in prison camps there till he managed to get out in 1935. He wasn't drunk, he just had the intestinal fortitude to express himself then, since he had a bit to drink.

anon3 said...

"And it cannot be forgiven."
Yep, it's farbisene tipshim like you who continue to carry the flag of pirud and machlokes and are meakiv the geulah. You are the ones that should seek forgiveness.Until then Yimat komoco biYisroel.
Tzig,
Yes I am sure.

Anonymous said...

>>Reb Fole Kahan was no fool, no boor and not very drunk. He was a Talmid Chochom who had great mesiras nefesh in Russia and languished in prison camps there till he managed to get out in 1935. He wasn't drunk, he just had the intestinal fortitude to express himself then, since he had a bit to drink.

Foyleh was not a talmid chochom and he was drunk. As far as his so called mesiras nefesh is concerned, every Jew in WWII matches what he did, if not more.

>>Yep, it's farbisene tipshim like you who continue to carry the flag of pirud and machlokes and are meakiv the geulah. You are the ones that should seek forgiveness.Until then Yimat komoco biYisroel.

And I am saying the exact opposite: The "farbissine tipish" was Foyleh (and we all know he said the same thing about R' Chaim Ozer; don't tell me that the grosse "talmid chochom" Foyleh measured up to him). He created pirud by saying the stupid things he said. The the dislike that he and the rebbe had against the CI and others who did not practice in accordance with their narrow understanding of avodas hashem caused macklokes and pirud--and it is meakev the geulah.

That's unforgivable.

Unfortunately, this legacy of hatred continues in you. Tzig may be too scared of posting this. But the emes shall remain forever. And haters like you, Arthur and others will diminish and languish for eternity.

Gansburg said...

such foolishness is hard to come by

Comparing WW2 suffering to the suffering in the Soviet Union is typical of snags. They'll say anything to belittle Chabad.

Where did he say something like that about Reb Chaim Ayzer?!

Maharam Schick said...

How many yeshiva leit in the world KA"H, 10,000, 20,000....that's how many times the CI was disgraced this morning by those advertising themselves as his Chassidim and Mekushorim, who delibertley scorned and mocked him!

Anonymous said...

Maharam Schick.

Not a single bachur would ever portend to know what is going on in shomayim, much less to say a gadol is jealous of a child. Such talk is reserved for fools.

maharam schick said...

Amazing, truly amazing!

Every Chasid, any Chasid,hangs on every word that falls from the mouth of his Rebbe and seeks to fulfill his directives and so, attach himself to the Rebbe (See Sukkah, Ho'il v'nafak me'puma d'Rav)

And here, these great Mekusharim of the Poisek Acharon, Oiker Harim and they can't even bring themselves to follow his Hora'ah, just because they want to be able to look like Al Capone and so their girlfreinds won't complain

Anonymous said...

>>Comparing WW2 suffering to the suffering in the Soviet Union is typical of snags. They'll say anything to belittle Chabad.

This is hillarious.

The rebbe instilled in his chassidim a martyr complex which knows no bounds.

Anonymous said...

>>And here, these great Mekusharim of the Poisek Acharon, Oiker Harim and they can't even bring themselves to follow his Hora'ah, just because they want to be able to look like Al Capone and so their girlfreinds won't complain

Let's be honest for one second: You cannot be a chassid of the Chazon Ish and not follow his directives. ANd none of them have girlfriends. Contrast that with the typical "chussid" from tomchei tmimim where everything goes . . .

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Explain how being forcefully rounded up and shipped to Gas Chambers compares to going out on a limb and making Mikvaos and Chadorim?

Here you stuck your neck. There you had no choice, your Polish neighbors pointed you out.

man, I thought we had intelligent people here....

Anonymous said...

>>Here you stuck your neck. There you had no choice, your Polish neighbors pointed you out.

That is actually a higher form of mesiras nefesh. You just lack the pnimius to farshtey der inyan. Besides, if Foyleh the Fool said what he said about gedolei yisroel, he obviously did not care one wit for yiddishkeit.

>>man, I thought we had intelligent people here....

Nebach, that tipshim are talking like this to chachomim!

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

right. sure. whatever.

Anonymous said...

>>right. sure. whatever.

Such a mature, knowledgable reply. You probably cannot begin to fathom what I am referring to.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I mamesh can't fathom

so deep.

Anonymous said...

>>Here you stuck your neck. There you had no choice, your Polish neighbors pointed you out.

Ladies and gentlemn, according to the Tzig Rav Gavriel Holczberg, and his wife, Hy"d were not such great baalei mesiras nefesh, after all. They were killed "only" because they were yidden.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

this man's stupidity knows no bounds

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Yossi

you were late to the party. Read up what I said and THEN comment. Also try reading it twice, you may need that extra effort.

Yossi said...

>>you were late to the party. Read up what I said and THEN comment. Also try reading it twice, you may need that extra effort.

I read it; and you come across as an idiot.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I said twice.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

question of the day:

what's greater? living on Mesiras nefesh or dying so?

I'm not speaking about reward.

Shragie said...

I would say those dying. The fact they have greater schar proves that.

Dov said...

According to Rav Dessler, Anonomous and Yossi are right . . .

Just thought you should know.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

OK. fine. But that was really beside the point. The two guys here were belittling the mesiras nefesh of a yid while alive. To them only Mesiras Nefesh in Bnei Beraq counts.

ZS said...

>>OK. fine. But that was really beside the point. The two guys here were belittling the mesiras nefesh of a yid while alive. To them only Mesiras Nefesh in Bnei Beraq counts.

That is not true: according to the yid who supposedly was moser nefesh while alive, the CI was worthless. For an unlearned man to talk like that is beyond comprehension. He was the one who said everyone else is worthless in comparison to him because he learns something that they don;t learn (although he did not come close to them in Torah).

On the other hand, all the two guy were writing about was the fact that their grandparents who remained alive and were frum were moser nefesh more. And that the value of those killed is far greater. I actually think they are correct.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Exactly, but not for the reason I suggested.

Tzig vs. Rav Dessler. . . Hm.

Tzig is probably basing himself on the Rebbe's love of those who were moser nefesh in Russia.

EDITED

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

zs

so, being mekaneh = worthless in your books?!

ZS said...

>>so, being mekaneh = worthless in your books?!

Yes. Being mekaneh children suggests a strong level of disparagement.

Foyleh really overstepped his bounds with that incredibly stupid remark.

Anonymous said...

>>The two guys here were belittling the mesiras nefesh of a yid while alive.

Just to use your logic: they did not belittle him, they merely elevated others.

Maybe A Litvak said...

He meant miseras nefesh for mitzvas b'shas hadchak during the war (or he should have meant that)

They should trying learning till they have no strength to get up and get a Rashba; for a limud in Mesiras Nefesh.

Yirmiyahu said...

>>They should trying learning till they have no strength to get up and get a Rashba; for a limud in Mesiras Nefesh.

They never will. They only appreciate external forms of "mesiras nefesh."

What else can you expect from a community which degraded someone like the Chazon Ish?

Anonymous said...

Maybe
Where exactly did Reb Chaim meet the CI? who concocted the story?

Anonymous said...

Maybe
I don"t believe that a learned litvak like you never read the Works of the Stiepler / Noe on the shiurim subject, please stop all ready with daf beis in Bava Kama and get on with a real life of torah

Anonymous said...

Maybe,
Is learning Rashba that hard, In matter of fact I love Rashba, I assume for a guy to sit and kvetch the bench because his wife will divorce him, learning Rasba is mesiras nefesh

Anonymous said...

Yirmiya,
THEY? who are they?
All lubavitchers even the ones that had a full zman of learning Masechtes Kesubas? I their learning not as choshev as the Ponovizher boys that bombed cars this year twice?

Maybe A Litvak said...

Maybe
Where exactly did Reb Chaim meet the CI? who concocted the story?

I forgot the name of the shtut. Vageuly, maybe around WW1 when they were on the lam. Anyways, Brisk have many stories re their personal interactions.

Maybe
I don"t believe that a learned litvak like you never read the Works of the Stiepler / Noe on the shiurim subject, please stop all ready with daf beis in Bava Kama and get on with a real life of torah

I am busy with chasidus. Don't got no time for that.

"All lubavitchers even the ones that had a full zman of learning Masechtes Kesubas?"

Interesting whay your hasagah of mesiras nefesh for teyrah is. A full zman! Wow! Maybe the born again Lubabs can put in a whole full zman and can level of the playing field with their recruiters

Maybe A Litvak said...

"kvetch the bench"

The old sinah for the 'bonk kvetchers' are sneaking out from RMMS followers. Interesting.

anon3 said...

Maybe,
Are you giving a probeh for court jester on this blog site? Get on line.There are many other velts chachomim trying out for the position before you.

Yeruchim said...

Hirshel,

Please insist on using a name when making a comment, "Anonymous" is very confusing. Thanks

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I would insist, it's just that most people are incapable of following instructions here....

Maybe A Litvak said...

you can solve the anonymous problem by writing 'Stick to a Name' right next to 'Please think before you write'. It will have the same effect

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Good Idea!

oh, wait...

Anon1 said...

May I suggest that we get together and burn the Talmud while dancing aorund the bonfire. After all, the Talmud is grossly insulting all the gedolei Yisroel/tzadikim of all generations by stating that they are envious of every other tzadik's "chupah" in gan eden. What chutzpah! What outrage! How dare those nincompoops speak that way about R. Akiva, Rashby, R. Meir, Rashi, Rambam, Arizal, Gra, R. Chaim, Chazon Ish, Chofets Chayim etc. etc. (And then those ignorant hillbillies, the meforshei hashas, who dare justify and explain how and why it is so!) It is absolutely shocking, and I wonder where the Kovod-hatorah-taliban-squad has been until now that they never protested this and put a cherem on those who study the Talmud! Eis la'asos laHashem! Go, go go: heifeiru torosecho

Maybe A Litvak said...

Where does the Gemarah say re a person who had a different mehalach who -dedicated his life in the extreme for it, ehr hut gelehrned Torah Lishma, a tremendous miyageyeh in learning ahd kloys coychoh- after he was already in the Ginzey Miroymem, to say that a cheder yingle is going to have bigger cheleck?

Are you admitting that your Rebbe said that?

anon3 said...

"Are you admitting that your Rebbe said that?"
Almost,
Have you been blessed with Rebbishe koiches which gives you the power to discern that Anon1 is a Chosid of as you put it "your Rebbe"?
If someone would refer to the Chazon Ish or "Maran" on Yeshiva World or some other Yeshiveshe blog as "your godol Hatorah" would you consider to be the proper etiquette?

Anon1 said...

Maybe A Litvak said...
Where does the Gemarah say re a person who had a different mehalach who -dedicated his life in the extreme for it, ehr hut gelehrned Torah Lishma, a tremendous miyageyeh in learning ahd kloys coychoh- after he was already in the Ginzey Miroymem, to say that a cheder yingle is going to have bigger cheleck?

Some tzelem-kep remain tzelem-kep.Whoever said or mentioned "bigger chelek"????? Each one gets his own chelek, and whoever learned etc. something which the other one(s) did not - gets that chelek set aside for that inyan. "Up there" one realizes truth, and sees the uniqueness of each part of Torah, and would like to have that as well. That is pshat in "envies" - for then it is too late.

Instead of wasting your time in listening and reading the ignorant garbage of the notorious "bashers" - why don't you simply take a gemoro and start learning what it says there. And if that is an insult to X, then it is an insult to every single tzadik from the beginning of time (as the gemoro says there - KOL tzadik). Zil gemor.

anon3 said...

"Unfortunately, this legacy of hatred continues in you. Tzig may be too scared of posting this. But the emes shall remain forever. And haters like you, Arthur and others will diminish and languish for eternity."
This must be the same tipish that wrote those silly posts back then when the subject of what really transpired in Shanghai with the Lubavitcher bochurim was being discussed.If my memory serves me correctly he was the one who kept on insisting that Arthur was a liar,Shimon Goldman was a liar,just about everyone was a liar but he was the only one that was privy to the truth because he heard it from some obscure Mirrer individual who no one ever heard of and here he is again,the defender of the faithful and so full of the same bitterness and hatred.

Anonymous said...

Maybe
You are running out of material, you are starting to be repetitive and a bore, get back to your Bank Kvecher friends and create some new hate lines, (in my terminology it means a person that his sole purpose of being is to kevch the bank) when you mimic a hoilech Bottul in kolel you are not a maskil,

Anonymous said...

>>This must be the same tipish that wrote those silly posts back then when the subject of what really transpired in Shanghai with the Lubavitcher bochurim was being discussed.If my memory serves me correctly he was the one who kept on insisting that Arthur was a liar,Shimon Goldman was a liar,just about everyone was a liar but he was the only one that was privy to the truth because he heard it from some obscure Mirrer individual who no one ever heard of and here he is again,the defender of the faithful and so full of the same bitterness and hatred.

Arthur is an anonomous boor who called a gadol hador and tzadik worse than Hitler. Shimon Goldman is obscure--no one ever heard of him; Rav Chaim Wysoker was one of the most famous roshei yeshiva of the last generation. The fact that you never heard of him speaks mountains about your ignorance.

When one talks about what "really" happened somewhere when everyone who was there disagrees (and these people are famous tzadikim and talmidei chachomim, not some obscure boor), its a lie.

Maybe A Litvak said...

Anon1

Nice legalese, but the totality of the circumstances indicate that he didn't just mean an innocours 'we have something they don't have'. He meant, 'we are superior'
If he believed that the Chazon Ish was more mishtasheheya in Shomayim than the yingle, he wouldn't have made that comment.

"If someone would refer to the Chazon Ish or "Maran" on Yeshiva World or some other Yeshiveshe blog as "your godol Hatorah" would you consider to be the proper etiquette?"

How did the words 'proper etiquette' get past the censorship?

"because he heard it from some obscure Mirrer individual who no one ever heard of"

The whole Lakewood and most of the oylem hayeshivos heard of R'Chaim Visoker. He was a bavustah tzadik.
You guys never heard from him, because he was a big advocate of kiruv and only the Lubabs do Kiruv, right?


Maybe
You are running out of material, you are starting to be repetitive and a bore, get back to your Bank Kvecher friends and create some new hate lines, (in my terminology it means a person that his sole purpose of being is to kevch the bank) when you mimic a hoilech Bottul in kolel you are not a maskil,

Thanx for the clarification. It was quite obvious that there was residual bonk kvetecher sinah. You don't have to be a Maran to shmek that oys.

Repetitive and a bore?
You mean like Tolstoy and that guy who wrote Crime and Punishment?

Mayn Tayerah, you guys yourself provide the materail

Anon1 said...

Repetitive and a bore?
You mean like Tolstoy and that guy who wrote Crime and Punishment?

Sorry, most people don't know what you are talking about. It is too late for them to now take lessons in this Russian literature from R. Aaron Kotler z"l and R. Yaakov Kamentezky z"l who acquired great beki'us in these books (see Making of Godol). Note this is not said ch"v to denigrate them, for I too enjoyed these books, and chochmoh bagoyim taamin. It's just that you sent your post to the wrong address.

Maybe A Litvak said...

Anon1
The old Russesherah writers knew how to take a simple point and drag it out for pages and pages. A poem of Frost is worth many of De. I find it ironic that those that are accoustmed to Russian literary styles and Drashas are complaining about repetetive and boring. The Russeseshah love that stuff and they love hearing someone drown about nothing

anon3 said...

"Arthur is an anonomous boor who called a gadol hador and tzadik worse than Hitler. Shimon Goldman is obscure--no one ever heard of him; Rav Chaim Wysoker was one of the most famous roshei yeshiva of the last generation. The fact that you never heard of him speaks mountains about your ignorance."
Yep it's the same bigoted,narrow minded tipesh with the one track mind.

Anonymous said...

Maybe,
Lately it was in the news that recycled aluminum price are not worthwile dealing with, It seems from your writing that dreck recycling still earns you a livelihood, you go on and on

Anonymous said...

>>Yep it's the same bigoted,narrow minded tipesh with the one track mind.

So instead of acknowledging your ignorance in Torah, history and deceitful nature in pretending Rav Chaim Wyskoer is obscure, you describe Arthur right back to me?

Ok . . .

Anon1 said...

Rav Chaim Wysoker was one of the most famous roshei yeshiva of the last generation.

Is that so? I went through the yeshivah-system, (mostly) litvish and chassidish and never heard of him. For all I know he could have been the greatest lamdan or boki in the world - just as there are people who know Bavli and Yerushalmi be'al peh ois be'ois shuffling through the streets of Jerusalem without hardly anyone knowing about them (and I have come across a few of those). So what? What is his fame? Seforim? Ksovim? Where was he rosh yeshivah and what is he known for? How come in my yeshives (Torah Vodaas,Ner Yisroel and Tels) his name never came up?

Viener-schnitzel said...

"When one talks about what "really" happened somewhere when everyone who was there disagrees "

Michoel Ber threw the 'blut shas' on the floor, he seems to have agreed.

anon3 said...

"When one talks about what "really" happened somewhere when everyone who was there disagrees (and these people are famous tzadikim and talmidei chachomim, not some not some obscure boor its a lie."
Do you know Shimon Goldman well enough to call him an "obscure boor"?Do know him at all?Maybe he is obscure to you but is it necessary to call a eltere erliche Yid who is a holocaust surviver, a talmid chochom , a shangchair talmid and is gabai of one of the largest gemilas chasodim organizations in the USA a "boor"?
"When one talks about what "really" happened somewhere when everyone who was there disagrees (and these people are famous tzadikim and talmidei chachomim, not some obscure boor, its a lie."
Please pray tell us who are these "famous tzadikim and talmedai chachomim" besides the obscure Mirrer Rosh Yeshiva ,who nobody I have spoken to Litvish or otherwise seems to know about?
In addition to being a bitter, narrow minded, myopic tipesh, who is fixated with the notorious Arthur's crimes,you turn out to be a liar and paranoid as well.Si iz an aveireh di tzeit for anyone to try to reason with your one track, bigoted and befuddled mind.

Anonymous said...

>>Is that so? I went through the yeshivah-system, (mostly) litvish and chassidish and never heard of him.

You went through the system, perhaps. But you obviously gained nothing from it.

>>For all I know he could have been the greatest lamdan or boki in the world - just as there are people who know Bavli and Yerushalmi be'al peh ois be'ois shuffling through the streets of Jerusalem without hardly anyone knowing about them (and I have come across a few of those). So what? What is his fame? Seforim? Ksovim? Where was he rosh yeshivah and what is he known for? How come in my yeshives (Torah Vodaas,Ner Yisroel and Tels) his name never came up?

Did you ever hear of Beis HaTalmud? Do you know who its Roshei Yeshiva were in the 60s?

>>Do you know Shimon Goldman well enough to call him an "obscure boor"?

You called others on this thread who you don't know to be a boor. The fact that everyone in Shanhai says his story is a lie. And the fact that he would lie about great tzadikim and talmidei chachomim (even for the "admirable" goal of defending his rebbe) says a lot about him.

Do know him at all?Maybe he is obscure to you but is it necessary to call a eltere erliche Yid who is a holocaust surviver, a talmid chochom , a shangchair talmid and is gabai of one of the largest gemilas chasodim organizations in the USA a "boor"?

He is still obscured. And if I am a boor, so is he.

>>Please pray tell us who are these "famous tzadikim and talmedai chachomim" besides the obscure Mirrer Rosh Yeshiva ,who nobody I have spoken to Litvish or otherwise seems to know about?

You are a liar. Everyone in the litvish world heard of Rav Chaim Wysoker. So again, you are a liar.

>>In addition to being a bitter, narrow minded, myopic tipesh, who is fixated with the notorious Arthur's crimes,you turn out to be a liar and paranoid as well.

I did not write a single lie on this thread. You, however, did, throughout.

>>Si iz an aveireh di tzeit for anyone to try to reason with your one track, bigoted and befuddled mind.

Nebach. As though you know what a mind is. Instead of being greatful for my attempts to educate you, all you have is ad hominum attacks. That is what you were taught in Chabad: personal insults is the only response when you have no substance.

ZS said...

>>Michoel Ber threw the 'blut shas' on the floor, he seems to have agreed.

Not sure whast you mean by this. I would be surprise if he threw a shas on the floor.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Anonymous

re-hashing the same old lies will not change the facts. I'd say 95% of Bachurim today in Litvishe yeshivos never heard of Wisoker. case closed.

Anonymous said...

Tzig,

Lying is refusing to put in comments which show your posts for the lies they are.

YOu know nothing about litvish yeshiva bachurim. And the fact that you call such a great man by his last name says a lot about your character.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Lying is making statements about me without even knowing who I am!

I have extensive daily contact with Litvishe bachurim and yungeleit. Many of them talmidei chachomim. NONE have ever heard of him PERIOD.

I often refer to people by their last names only, even people from my own group.

Maybe A Litvak said...

Tzig

You should hang around a more informed crowd.

Anyways, it is irrelevant to his stature if they heard of him. Ask them if they ever heard of R'Shmuel Charkover, R' Lazor Hagodel, R' Shimon Shikowitzky, R' Velvel Chilkevker, R' Shaya Sherovsky and many others.

Anonymous said...

>>I have extensive daily contact with Litvishe bachurim and yungeleit. Many of them talmidei chachomim. NONE have ever heard of him PERIOD.

Just to illustrate how ridiculous your assertion is: Your representation is the equivalent of arguing that you spend extensive time with major league basepall players and none of them has ever heard of Babe Ruth.

And I make this allegory without spending taking the time to write more extensively of how unlikely it is that someone likw you associates extensively with Litvish yungeleit and bachurim.

>>I often refer to people by their last names only, even people from my own group.

Go ahead, call your rebbe "Schneerson" for a day.

Anonymous said...

"Maybe,
Lately it was in the news that recycled aluminum price are not worthwile dealing with, It seems from your writing that dreck recycling still earns you a livelihood, you go on and on"

I am willing to me Moser Nefesh with time and effort and even associate with people who- gaze at photos they constantly bring in the bathroom and make claocks out of- in order to make a slight Royshem on one Yiddishe Neshamah.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Anonymous 6:51pm

what is "someone like me?"

You know nothing about me, so stop putting your foot in your mouth.

Anonymous 6:25

Informed crowds are VERY hard to come by these days.

Anonymous said...

>>You know nothing about me, so stop putting your foot in your mouth.

So you are trying to suggest that you are an ernste litvishe yungerman who associates with high level talmidei chachomim from the litvish velt on a daily AND extensive basis.

Sorry, but I find that hard to believe.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

no, I'm not a Litvisher yungerman, but I do have extensive contact.

Why is that so hard to believe?!


Besides, being a TC does not mean that you know Litvishe history!

Anon1 said...

Our dearly beloved friend, yerei Elokim merabim and ohev yisroel who spells his name Anonymous, writes:
"You are a liar. Everyone in the litvish world heard of Rav Chaim Wysoker."

Wysoker Shmysoker Lysoker or Anonymous-Sucker. Whoever this man was, and kvodo bimkomo munach, neither I (who spent 12 years in litvishe yeshive-world) nor my former rebbies who I checked with just now - ever heard of the man. Too bad. He may have been famous in his yeshivah (where he learnt or where he taught), and even been the greatest there - so what??? I ask again: what sefer? what ksovim? what fame? For 99% of today's Torah world he is simply "anonymous"!
And please don't quote me Beis Hatalmud of the 60s or 70s. I could tell you stories about that place and its talmidim which would make your hair stand up straight, except that kvod Elokim hester davar.

Get a life, and start spelling your name properly: it's not Anonymous but Analmouth.

Anonymous said...

Its amazing how this crowd in
Bensonhurst believe that the world is enthralled with their yeshiva and their staff.Lately I was awed when I spoke to a talmud of beis hatalmud that their are all kinds of levels with stupid names for first floor guys and second floor guys,eventough the place is almost empty but the stupidity train is in his tracks.

Maybe A Litvak said...

"And please don't quote me Beis Hatalmud of the 60s or 70s. I could tell you stories about that place and its talmidim which would make your hair stand up straight, except that kvod Elokim hester davar."

Interesting. You know stories about the place during that tekufah, but you don't know the name of the Rosh Yeshiva during (60's) that tekufah.

"nor my former rebbies who I checked with just now - ever heard of the man"
He is a harry.
Or maybe you pronounced it with a W. No one does. Or maybe he didn't want to frazell your self esteem. I don't know. Did you ask your rebbe is he likes Tzig's blog?

"For 99% of today's Torah world he is simply "anonymous"!"

Never underestimate the one percent.
On a serious note: you never learnt in Lakewood

"I ask again: what sefer? what ksovim? what fame?"
Oh my. A Yid sat in a vinkle learning Teyreh and you care about how many people knew about him. Who did you hang around with that gave you these values?

"Get a life, and start spelling your name properly: it's not Anonymous but Analmouth."

Spoken like a true Telzer. V'dal

Maybe A Litvak said...

Tzig,
why did you not print my post about Shanchai?

Anon1 said...

"He is a harry.
Or maybe you pronounced it with a W. No one does. Or maybe he didn't want to frazell your self esteem. I don't know. Did you ask your rebbe is he likes Tzig's blog?"

Haven't a clue what you are talking about. Speak English, Yiddish, French, Russian, Italian or even Chinese - so I can make it out. But this "Maybe-a-Litvak"-ish (i.e., 'maybe' means a confused nitwit who can't make up his mind where he is at, where he came from or where he is going, a "koy"-animal, nu nu) makes no sense to anyone.

"For 99% of today's Torah world he is simply "anonymous"!"
Never underestimate the one percent. On a serious note: you never learnt in Lakewood"

As a matter of fact I did - for 3 months, and, unlike my 2 brothers who stayed for 2 years, did not like it and went elsewheres.

Anonymous said...

>>Besides, being a TC does not mean that you know Litvishe history!

Talmidei Chachomim know who a talmid chochom of Rav Wysoker's caliber was.

>>Wysoker Shmysoker Lysoker or Anonymous-Sucker. Whoever this man was, and kvodo bimkomo munach, neither I (who spent 12 years in litvishe yeshive-world) nor my former rebbies who I checked with just now - ever heard of the man. Too bad. He may have been famous in his yeshivah (where he learnt or where he taught), and even been the greatest there - so what??? I ask again: what sefer? what ksovim? what fame? For 99% of today's Torah world he is simply "anonymous"!

>>I ask again: what sefer? what ksovim? what fame? For 99% of today's Torah world he is simply "anonymous"!

If you do not know which shtiklach he wrote, you obviously have no shaychus to learning in the yeshiva world. Aside from that, the anonomous, obscure boor you quoted is a nobody. Rav Chaim Wysoker was one of the greatest roshei yeshiva of his time. Even Rav Svei (who was maspid him) prefaced his hesped by saying that he could not actually talk about them meis because of his greatness. The fact you
"heard" "stories" about Beis HaTalmud in the 60s only suggests even more about your lies because this man whom you have so maliciously villified (taking your rebbe's example) was its Rosh Yeshiva at that time!

But there is a new layer of craziness here: you called every rebbe you ever had in all 12 years of your "learning" in "litvish" yeshivos? What a joke! Judging by the way you write, you obviously never learned a day in Yeshiva.

>>Its amazing how this crowd in
Bensonhurst believe that the world is enthralled with their yeshiva and their staff.

In the 50s and 60s, they were. And that is what we are talking about. To argue otherwise is to ignore reality.

Maybe A Litvak said...

"If you do not know which shtiklach he wrote, you obviously have no shaychus to learning in the yeshiva world."

Which shticklach did he write, any clue?

Was it published together with R'Velvel Shilkiver's?

Viener-schnitzel said...

"I would be surprise if he threw a shas on the floor."

Sorry to rain on your parade, but the Eidei Re'iya are still available to corroborate, one or 2 were even identified by name on previous threads.

Anonymous said...

>>Which shticklach did he write, any clue?

Anon1 probably never even heard of HaTevnunah. Afrah Lepumah

anon3 said...

"If you do not know which shtiklach he wrote, you obviously have no shaychus to learning in the yeshiva world. Aside from that, the anonomous, obscure boor you quoted is a nobody."
Tzig,
Is there any reason why you keep om posting this nudniks pearls of wisdom? The man is obviously a prime candiate for a psychiatric workup.His repetitive garbage is getting to be quite boring.Genug shoin.

Anonymous said...

You are so obtuse and dishonest, anon3. Your disrespect for history, truth, facts and decency are beyond evil.

Cholent Fresser said...

"Even Rav Svei (who was maspid him) prefaced his hesped by saying that he could not actually talk about them meis because of his greatness"
Wow!!!! what a Rayeh.Like the old saying "Acharei Mois Kedoshim".Every Yukel and his Brother are always described in terms of greatnes,Okar Turei,Rosh shel kol bnaei hagoleh,moifais hador etc etc etc after they pass on.
Don't get me wrong.I'm not calling this Rosh Yeshiva a "yukel" but to be honest with you, I learned in Ponoviezh for quite a number of years,and am not a Lubab but, bemchilas kevodchem ,Iv'e never heard of him or his Sefer or kuntres, so you'll have to mark me down as just another "boor" (You really like that word) amongst many other thousands of Yeshiva leit who never heard of him or his ksovim. Why, even "Almost A Litvak"' who seems to feel that he himself is a gaon utzum, was completely unaware of his existence until you brought it to his attention.That would make him a "boor" too, right?

Anonymous said...

Wow!!!! what a Rayeh.Like the old saying "Acharei Mois Kedoshim".Every Yukel and his Brother are always described in terms of greatnes,Okar Turei,Rosh shel kol bnaei hagoleh,moifais hador etc etc etc after they pass on.Don't get me wrong.I'm not calling this Rosh Yeshiva a "yukel"

Yes you are.

>>but to be honest with you, I learned in Ponoviezh for quite a number of years,and am not a Lubab but, bemchilas kevodchem ,Iv'e never heard of him or his Sefer or kuntres, so you'll have to mark me down as just another "boor" (You really like that word) amongst many other thousands of Yeshiva leit who never heard of him or his ksovim.

Did you call all your Rabbeim at Ponovez to ask about Rav Chaim Wysoker? If you did, they would have told you about them. To suggest otherwise is akin to writing that a Chabadsker did not hear of the Rebbe.

>>Why, even "Almost A Litvak"' who seems to feel that he himself is a gaon utzum, was completely unaware of his existence until you brought it to his attention.

This is just untrue.


>>That would make him a "boor" too, right?

No. Only you and the obscure fellow. But this last string of comments just brings you even lower (as though it is possible). You have no credibility.

Counting the Days 'till Bein Hazmanim is Over said...

Didn't the 'gedoilim' Assur the internet for all uses other then business? What are all these 'bnei toirah' doin' here, killing time till Rosh Chodesh Sivan?

anon3 said...

"You are so obtuse and dishonest, anon3. Your disrespect for history, truth, facts and decency are beyond evil."
Well what can I do? I'm just another "boor".I'm overwhelmed by your above description of me.My entire family is despondent about all of this. We simply will not be be able to sleep tonight.We have now all become a family of "boors"(or maybe bears).How can we ever live this down?"Beyond evil",oy veis mir.

Counting etc. etc. said...

oh, I forgot, the internet is like shaving.

They're 'gedoilim', only until such time as they're not!

Anonymous said...

Anon3,

I am sure you have learned that acting in an evil matter is bad--even in your many years in Tomchei Tmimim. Sadly, you were taught to look at the so-called evil of the misnagdim and glorify yourself in your "pnimius" and "emes." This warped thinking, you have demonstrated today, took you to the point where you lie to the point of absurdity and lose all self-respect.

So go pretend you are a letz. You have nothing going for you anyway. You ARE nothing.

anon3 said...

"I am sure you have learned that acting in an evil matter is bad--even in your many years in Tomchei Tmimim."
Me learn in TT? Who says so? Surprise!!!!!. I never did.One doesn't have to learn in TT to see the obstinate tipshus in your posts.Every time you post you dig a deeper hole for yourself.Genug and have a Chag kosher vesomeach.

Maybe A Litvak said...

"Haven't a clue what you are talking about. Speak English, Yiddish, French, Russian, Italian or even Chinese - so I can make it out. But this "Maybe-a-Litvak"-ish (i.e., 'maybe' means a confused nitwit who can't make up his mind where he is at, where he came from or where he is going, a "koy"-animal, nu nu) makes no sense to anyone."

Mir Dachsah, a 'koy, is a berya bifney atzmuh, not a safek, and is definetly not confused. Maybe Maybe's confused, but you are going to have to come up with a decent analogy. (Or maybe you are acclimated to hearing a tzu shtel that sounds good on its face, but has no substantive value. Don't think about it and just count the pages and hours of the shtickal. Don't get booged down with details like a Litvak, it is all in the presentation. (V'Dal))

"Why, even "Almost A Litvak"' who seems to feel that he himself is a gaon utzum, was completely unaware of his existence until you brought it to his attention."

I see you are on a good track. Mir ken brengen rayos fuhn Maybe. You obviously haven't read my comments regarding his lack of proper prenonciation "W" soker

"Wow!!!! what a Rayeh.Like the old saying "Acharei Mois Kedoshim".Every Yukel and his Brother are always described in terms of greatnes"

You are unaware of Litvishe levayos.

Anonymous said...

>>I never did.One doesn't have to learn in TT to see the obstinate tipshus in your posts.Every time you post you dig a deeper hole for yourself.Genug and have a Chag ko
sher vesomeach.

It is amazing you can be such a liar. If you did not learn in TT, its because you probably never learned in Yeshiva. This suspicion is supported from your behavior.

From lying to where you learned to describing stories which cannot be true, from being disingenuous in your arguments to demonstrating implausibly low levels of hatred toward jews, you have demonstrated that you are not one of us.

I will have a chag kosh v'sameach. You will celebrate Easter.

Maybe A Litvak said...

If someone who was born a ben-nidah can make himself oys, acourding to many, is the converse also true that one can become a ben-nidah later on in life, possibly by becoming a Lubab?

Knowingly Cantonized said...

"Even Rav Svei (who was maspid him) prefaced his hesped by saying "that he could not actually talk about them meis because of his greatness"
Wow!!!! what a Rayeh.Like the old saying "Acharei Mois Kedoshim".Every Yukel and his Brother are always described in terms of greatnes,Okar Turei,Rosh shel kol bnaei hagoleh,moifais hador etc etc etc after they pass on."

Kochlefelach.

When a Litwak says at a hespid 'ich bin nish ruhy tz maspid zeyn der greyse nifter'

he is essentially proclaiming 'der Gresye nifter hut gehalten fuhn yours truly'

If the maspid considers himslef shuveh b'shuveh, he says something like how the higlight of his week or whatever, was the gelegehntheit to speak with the nifter in learning

R' Wisoker passed on in the eighties and they printed a sefer of shmuezen from him. The style and substance is very much R'Yeruchem dke.

anon3 said...

"I will have a chag kosh v'sameach. You will celebrate Easter."
In spite of your above statement I reiterate du zolst hoben ah kosheren un freilecher Pesach.Just don't take yourself so seriously and chill out a little.Life will go a lot smoother for you.

Shimshon said...

"From lying to where you learned to describing stories which cannot be true, from being disingenuous in your arguments to demonstrating implausibly low levels of hatred toward jews, you have demonstrated that you are not one of us.

I will have a chag kosh v'sameach. You will celebrate Easter."
Nor ah kalte farbisine misnagid ken azoi shreiben.Ah broch tzu azein "frumkeit".

Anonymous said...

>>In spite of your above statement I reiterate du zolst hoben ah kosheren un freilecher Pesach.Just don't take yourself so seriously and chill out a little.Life will go a lot smoother for you.

Sheker is a terrible thing. I cannot take your trashy talk and brazen hatred toward Jews lightly. Its simply impossible for me. YOu take everything lightly, everything is a joke--a vort is not a vort, facts mean nothing, and decency is out the window. And don't tell me how to lead my life, you know nothing about life.

>>Nor ah kalte farbisine misnagid ken azoi shreiben.Ah broch tzu azein "frumkeit".

The funny thing is, Lubavitch has become the misnagdim--they hate everyone else. So you are talking about yourself, and your kind.

Peretz said...

"I will have a chag kosh v'sameach. You will celebrate Easter"
The poster of the above reminds one of the old adage that "frum" is the roshei teivos for "fil rishis unvintsig mitzvos".

Maybe A Litvak said...

"Sheker is a terrible thing. I cannot take your trashy talk and brazen hatred toward Jews lightly. Its simply impossible for me."

Yet you keep on comming back for more. Sounds like a shekerdike statement to me.

"YOu take everything lightly, everything is a joke--a vort is not a vort, facts mean nothing, and decency is out the window."

Why should he take your version of the facts when the butcher says otherwise? He knows the butcher and he never heard of R' Chaim. You can't expect better from him, nebuch

"So you are talking about yourself, and your kind."

Remind me. Who through decency out the window?

Michoel said...

I've been following the posts of this "anonymous" for quite a while. At first I thought they were the posts of different individuals but soon recognized this signon and nusach haloshon to be that of one individual.I am far from being a Chosid and even more so a Chosid of Chabad, but the hatred this man expresses in his irrational posts towards fellow Jews Chassidim or otherwise are beyond belief. The machlokes during the times of the GR"A ZT"L pale in comparison to the comments of this most likely sick individual.In reality he deserves our rachmonis and out of ahavas Yisroel the best thing to do would be to ignore his posts.

anon3 said...

Almost,You wrote
"Why should he take your version of the facts when the butcher says otherwise? He knows the butcher and he never heard of R' Chaim. You can't expect better from him, nebuch".
As Rav Ruderman Z"L once said when someone allegedly made a derogatory comment about him "Of mein kovod ken ich mevater zein ober of kovod HaTaireh ken ich nit".
I may be wrong but for some reason I get the feeling that your usage of the word "butcher" to describe Reb Shimon Goldman is not meant in a complementary way.Reb Shimon is an aideler Yid, a talmid chochom in the old sense of the word.The man went through shiva medurai gehennim in Poland and later on in Shanchai.He is a bal yesurim and a goimel chesed par excellence.You seem like an intelligent fellow.Si past nisht for you to emulate the nut case hayodua who truly is a "nebuch".

anon3 said...

Almost,You wrote
"Why should he take your version of the facts when the butcher says otherwise? He knows the butcher and he never heard of R' Chaim. You can't expect better from him, nebuch".
As Rav Ruderman Z"L once said when someone allegedly made a derogatory comment about him "Of mein kovod ken ich mevater zein ober of kovod HaTaireh ken ich nit".
I may be wrong but for some reason I get the feeling that your usage of the word "butcher" to describe Reb Shimon Goldman is not meant in a complementary way.Reb Shimon is an aideler Yid, a talmid chochom in the old sense of the word.The man went through shiva medurai gehennim in Poland and later on in Shanchai.He is a bal yesurim and a goimel chesed par excellence.You seem like an intelligent fellow.Si past nisht for you to emulate the nut case hayodua who truly is a "nebuch".

Anonymous said...

>>I've been following the posts of this "anonymous" for quite a while. At first I thought they were the posts of different individuals but soon recognized this signon and nusach haloshon to be that of one individual.I am far from being a Chosid and even more so a Chosid of Chabad, but the hatred this man expresses in his irrational posts towards fellow Jews Chassidim or otherwise are beyond belief. The machlokes during the times of the GR"A ZT"L pale in comparison to the comments of this most likely sick individual.In reality he deserves our rachmonis and out of ahavas Yisroel the best thing to do would be to ignore his posts.

Another example of the phony ahavas yisroel of Lubavitchers, full of talk, but devoid of practice.

Let's put it this way: When you care that someone wrote and talked the way people on this blog wrote about Rav Shach, the Chazon Ish, Rav Chaim Wysoker and other greats, when you comment on the rambling, the hatred, the dementia demonstrated by those commenters, I will at least grant that you may be impartial. But your hatred is so obvious. You simply cannot hide it.

Oy, this is all you have been taught. You know no better.

May the real moshiach comes, and if you are zoche to see him, you will see the emes.

Anonymous said...

Anon 4:45
did you follow the sinas yisroel, ignorance and Chutzpa of the Shoite Vegas Ruach "Maybe" ?

the Emes is not convenient especially for a non chosid,
Don"t blame lubavitch for me, I never stepped foot in a Chabad Yeshiva

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