Coming from Beis Nissan the Yoma DeHillula of the Rebbe Rashab of Lubavitch, here are some of my thoughts regarding the man and his mission. I was watching a farbrengen of 20 Cheshvan, the RR's birthday, where the last Rebbe speaks of the venture of the Rebbe Rashab to save Yiddishkeit by creating the Yeshiva Tomchei Tmimim in Lubavitch in 5657, and how his directives are very pertinent to his Talmidim and Talmidim of the Yeshivah today as well. The Rebbe even is mechayev women as far as that goes. One cannot help but realize how important the Rebbe thought each and every one of us in returning the Jewish nation to its full glory and bringing Moshiach. It didn't matter if you were a pure simpleton, there was something you could teach to a total ignoramus, and you had to do that. Those of you who have difficulty understanding the derech of Chabad might look at it and see problems, real or imagined ones, and may see it as the brainchild of the Rebbe - not that there's anything c"v wrong with that - but I'll prove that it wasn't so; this was at least 3 generations in the making.
Let's take a look at the Rebbe Rashab. Kodesh Kodoshim Mamesh. Frum vi a misnaged, his own mother called him. A towering man who even the great Geonim amongst the Misngadim had no choice but to have great derech eretz for him and respect his often lone opinions. In 5657/1897, the Rebbe basically decided that he alone will save Yiddishkeit. We all know what kind of destruction the movements of the day were wreaking on Yiddishkeit those years, and the Rebbe wanted to at least put a dent in it. So he decided that he'll start a Yeshivah that would educate bachurim on Mesiras Nefesh and make true Yirei Shomayim, leaders of Klal Yisroel in the years to come. What does that mean, "true Yirei Shomayim?" Well, despite there being several Yeshivos Kedoshos at that time fully operational for decades by then, the Rebbe felt that they were generating Talmidei Chachomim, yes, but not the Yirei Shomayim that he was looking for. In order to produce leaders and true Rabbonim there would need to be a heavy emphasis placed on the learning of Chassidus Chabad.
So he went and started his own Yeshivah in the Belorussian backwoods. He traveled to see how other Yeshivos operated, but basically did it by himself. He didn't gather the leaders of the generation. He even disagreed with his cousins as to what the true Chabad derech was. HE decided that the few bachurim in his small town will save the world! He traveled to Pressburg to see how they do it there. Faraway Pressburg, not nearby Mir or Telshe or Kelm. I don't know what he took from there. All I know is that he went a long way out of his way. Do you begin to see the parallel already? There's also the idea that not only will he go it alone, but he'll also be the only one to fully understand the needs of the people - all kinds of people - and only his bachurim will get it done. He'll send his bachurimlach to faraway Georgia and Buchara too, despite them being as familiar with those Jews as I am with astronomy. Then, if you'd like, you can follow the next two leaders of Chabad and see what they did and how they did it, and you can see where they got their lessons from.
50 comments:
"Let's take a look at the Rebbe Rashab............ Frum vi a misnaged, his own mother called him."
Frum vi a misnaged? So his mother was praising him that he was as frum as a misnaged?
Sounds like a nice concession and compliment to misnagdim from the Rebbe's mother there. Nice, yasher keyach!
Tzig
A couple of questions. Did he get along with R'Chaim'n? I heard that they did
He advocated that they should close the sefarim and do kiruv?
What was the maylah of the bachorim he produced? Mesiras Nefesh for Yenem's ruchniyus?
What did he find in Pressburg?
Did the FR take it to the next level?
Are you saying that their would still be sheluchim, but for the war?
Would he have sent bachurim on Madison Ave? (I am serious, I omitted the ad hominems)
Tzig
Imagine a farbrenghen with a Kelmer influence. Oh my. They would make sure not to bend their head to the cup and clap their hands without moving their heads.
Did The RR go to Pressburg or did he meet one of the Sofers at Marinbad?
"Did he get along with R'Chaim'n?"
If you can ask that, then I was right...you are misinformed and ignorant of history, even the fairly recent.
Thank you for exposing yourself.
Any comment you contribute from here on in, will be judged in that light!
Oh, and I just got back from the '250 years of this' thread and watched you make a fool of yourself.
Such a tremendous Chazon Ish'nik and don't know who RACN is??
Thank you for represnting Yeshivish'dom, you are a worthy speciman..Rants about things you have only minimum knowledge of...definitely a Chassid of The founder of Degel.
Oh, and by the way, it's Benedictine, not Benedict, you dope!
Who is it on these photos?
I have no idea who these people are.
So all the rabbonim, roshe yeshiva bnai tore, shochetim etc produced by the Litvishe yeshivas hoben nit geteygt ! Give us all a break !
Let me ask you a question I just finsihed reading the "new" biography of Reb Eli Yeychel Simpson. At 1 pointa farbrengun on Simchath Tore is described in Warsaw in the 1930's where the 6th Rebbe demanded that all jews who are not Sabbath observant and whose wifes don't observe taharo leave the zal and he kept on demanding this. Of what connection is this to present day Chabad activities ?
did I say that Schneur?!
Please stop putting words into my mouth.
We're talking 2-3 generations later, not שנה ופירש'ניקעס anymore.
Did he get along with R'Chaim'n?"
"If you can ask that, then I was right...you are misinformed and ignorant of history, even the fairly recent.
Thank you for exposing yourself.
Any comment you contribute from here on in, will be judged in that light!"
Oh my. I gotto go back and find where I insulted your knowledge of history. Maybe Tzig can delete it.
I know very little of Chabad history. It has minimal interest to me and I wasn't raised on haitful versions how those chabadkers b'aveled us. I can't name the seven Rebbes and I have no clue when The Mittle got that name.
"Such a tremendous Chazon Ish'nik and don't know who RACN is??"
You are confusing chashivus for being a nik. I guess in your world you are either 'faniked' or you can't be soyvel any amount of chashivus.
"Thank you for represnting Yeshivish'dom, you are a worthy speciman..Rants about things you have only minimum knowledge of...definitely a Chassid of The founder of Degel."
Oh my. You still can't get over the fact that the Chazon Ish worked out all the sugyos. Why does that bother you so much?
"Oh, and by the way, it's Benedictine, not Benedict, you dope!"
It is Benedict in the pnimius and shoyresh hadvrorim. The monks drank the same bottle with the name Benedictine, but the Rebbe's drinking was different, is was as if it was a different bottle.
His face didn't get red which is hisgalus hapnimyus which is the yesod of yayen where the wine is shomur in the grapes. The blood is the pnimius and the face gets red when the pnimius becomes nisgaleh. When the guf can't handle too much pnimiyus the person platzes. RMMS face never got red. It was not an avodah by him
"His face didn't get red which is hisgalus hapnimyus which is the yesod of yayen where the wine is shomur in the grapes. The blood is the pnimius and the face gets red when the pnimius becomes nisgaleh. When the guf can't handle too much pnimiyus the person platzes. RMMS face never got red. It was not an avodah by him."
Please be aware that Purim was celebrated over two weeks ago.Enough with the Purim Taireh already.
anon3
Besides for the last sentence regarding one of the FR's eydem, I was quoting word for word from the Alter Rebbe z'l.
I am serious
Information on what seems to be the Rabbi Klein from the NTY re Birchas Hachama article
TODAY is his Yortziet
http://kevarim.com/rav-hillel-ha-kohen-klien/comment-page-1/
Talmud of the chsav Sofer and son in law of R'Dr Mendel Hirch son of RSFH
Schneur - perhaps you can explain it?
The Rebbe Rashab's mother said that he was "Frum vi a misnaged". Seems she was taking Misnagdim as the gold standard in frumkeit.
How did they let that one get through?
Snag, It mean "mit ohn kin chiyus". All Chasidim don't call themselves frum. My Satmar friends laugh at Popa because they are frum.In Lithuania -White Russia the term frum did not mean observant it meant devoutly religious . A friend of mine from the Lower east Side reports that he was in Reb Moshe's apartment and the belll rang and it was Rav Zeidel Epstein, at the door, Rav Moshe told his wife to put on a sweater over her dress because Reb Zeidel iz a frumer !
I think the rabbi Klein we are really dealing with is not Rabbi Dr. Phillip (Hillele) Klein but rav Baruch M. Klein a Chassidic Hungarian rav living in NYC I think in Yorkville He wrote a bio of the Zaddik rav Mordecheof nadvorb=na and was an early Anti Zionist in the USA
Zarich oyyun !
Maybe
BBB has a strong point you are talking out of your cuff with no knowledge, Quoting some CI meetings with Reb Chaim with no sources, not knowing the shiurim war between the CI Stipler/ Noe, You are a simple Shoiteh Vegas Ruach Vi As Past Far A Litvak
Scneur
"So all the rabbonim, roshe yeshiva bnai tore, shochetim etc produced by the Litvishe yeshivas hoben nit geteygt ! Give us all a break " You blatantly took out words out of context, and so with the Sichos of the FR,he had a change of heart in the USA regarding many of his views as Zionisim, Mizrachi...
Anon 3
our friend MAYBE is sitting on 1 daf a zman so have rachmonas and give him time to refresh and get nu material
Maybe
Would he have sent bachurim on Madison Ave? (I am serious, I omitted the ad hominems)
maybe notmaybe yes he wasm"t in our generation, but Maran Shach paskened that when its very importand as Bechiros for degel, then its a mitzva to go on Dizegnoif and go from house to house to influence the housewifes.
Schneur,
the Galicaner Chasidim are quoting A sharf vort from the Ropschitzer regarding a frummer
Schneur - Yaser keyach.
I realized that it could possibly be explained along such lines, however, if that is what was meant, kumt ays that his mother was actually being critical of him in a way. Hirshel here brought it down, was that his intention too?
Ma nafshoch, if it is a genai, kumt ays that the mother is putting down her son, if it is a shevach, kumt ays, she is being meshabeiach snags. Looks like a catch-22.
Maybe it's a bit of both. Either way, its interesting, just like the Lubavitcher maamar that Moshiach has to be a Misnaged.
Hey, even strong Chassidim sometimes have to concede that there is something on the Snag side of Yiddishkeit.
"BBB has a strong point you are talking out of your cuff with no knowledge"
It is you again. The same one who is an expert on Lorencz and Maran
"Quoting some CI meetings with Reb Chaim with no sources,"
Oh my. You are obviously unfamiliar whith Litvishih lingo. I guess I am gonna have to switch to Eubonics. Saying that 'ahz mir zugt in Brisk' is more reliable than written sources.
You guys can't be masig that those two eylekeh yidden got along; despite differences in mehalch halimud etc. It is a far cry from cheder yingel comments, I can't expect better from someone who is not mechunech
"not knowing the shiurim war between the CI Stipler/ Noe"
I don't recall that comming up on Daf Bes
"our friend MAYBE is sitting on 1 daf a zman so have rachmonas"
I see reading Mechtovim U' Mamorim is having a positive effect
"In Lithuania -White Russia the term frum did not mean observant it meant devoutly religious "
Alon these lines, the Chofetz Chaim used to say " Ah Galach muz zin frum, a Yid muz zine ehrlich".
Maybe
what makes you think that the Rebbe would not get along with the CI if he would meet him in person?
Did Shimmi Meler the offical biographer of "chatzar haodesh"Brisk write about it? or u heard in a shmuess from AJ ?
frum vi as misnaged means that the frume misnagdim were very nitpicky (kamuvan that chassidim ascribe negative reasons for this misnagidshe farkvetchtkeit such as ga'ava etc.) and the rebbe rashab was also a very big medakdek. The chiluk is that the misnagdim hoben gehat a kalter davenen and a varime essen, and the rebbe rashab (to quote the rest of the vort) davened like a lubavitcher, and ate like a poilisher (very little).
The vertel that "a galach iz frum a Yid iz erlich" is not from the Chafetz Chaim its a folk saying among Lithuanian Jews. The late writer in the Algemeiner Reb Zvi Kolitz always quot.ed this saying. It maybe that the CC used it but it did not originate with him . he had more important things to do.
MY rebbe and rav Rav Shimen Romm ZT"L Rosh at RIETS once told me "haynt is nitto an untersheyd zwischen die galochim und die rabbonim ... die galochim teigen sein eych nit ...
"Would he have sent bachurim on Madison Ave?"
Is there a difference in (his son) sending shluchim out in 1920's, 1930's in Communist Russia to certain death at the hand of the yevsektzia and sending, as you say, Bochurim to 'Madison Ave'?
Both require Breyte Pleitzes and a Vaiter Kook.
Re: R' Chaim, they worked hand in hand in guiding the Yiddin in Russia through the trying period of the first 2 decades of the twentiath Century. They also, in concert, were against joining Agudah. They were very close, in spirit and thought. All documented in letters.
" מענדל said...
frum vi as misnaged means that the frume misnagdim were very nitpicky (kamuvan that chassidim ascribe negative reasons for this misnagidshe farkvetchtkeit such as ga'ava etc.) and the rebbe rashab was also a very big medakdek."
Yaser keyach Mendel, you shed some more light here on the matter.
Basically you are saying that she said the RR was a big medakdek, like misnagdim, even though, of course, with your bias, you have to put a negative spin on it re misnagdim, using the expressions nitpickiness and farkvetchtkeit, while using the positive word 'medakdek' when it comes to RR, even though his mother used the same word for both the RR and Misnagdim (the word frum).
Limayseh, the implication from the saying remains that the Chassidim as a whole were not midakdeik, so she needed to go to misnagdim for a dugma to illustrate his daykonus.
"The chiluk is that the misnagdim hoben gehat a kalter davenen and a varime essen, and the rebbe rashab (to quote the rest of the vort) davened like a lubavitcher, and ate like a poilisher (very little)."
At first I thought you were going to say that RR had a vareme davenen and a kalte essen.
So Paylishe eat very little? Less than Lubavitchers? Vos iz pshat? She couldn't say he had a vareme davenen because Lubavitchers don't stress outward emotion in davening I guess.
On another note - Hirshel - article for you in heintige zeitung - NY Times - "How I Learned To Love Goat" (page D1).
JB loved saying over the old Litvike adage of frum vey der galoch, mehr muz zeyn ehrlcuh
"Is there a difference in (his son) sending shluchim out in 1920's, 1930's in Communist Russia to certain death at the hand of the yevsektzia and sending, as you say, Bochurim to 'Madison Ave'?"
Yes. One is mesiras nefesh kipshutoy and the other one is a degree of fakalyadkeyt.
Those bachorim on Madison Ave looked fried as many Lubab bachorim look like. You bet in needs big pleytzus to give the ok on such a thing.
Maybe
Did you play in 1 sandbox with Jay Bee? why are you Mechane shem ra for a godal betorah, its pure sinas am horatz letalmud chochem, he was beyond beyond in torah more then every talmud chochom after WW11 including his great uncle of Yerushalem, his knowledge was more then the first 7 pages of the 7 yeshivesher masectas.
"Maybe
what makes you think that the Rebbe would not get along with the CI if he would meet him in person?"
I am sure that if re requested a yechidus, the Rebbe would have been proud to oblige.
Seriously, it ticked people off that I said that they got along. It was obvious that they found it hard to believe. No Litvak would. I wonder what fallacies in their educational system would foster such a notion.
"including his great uncle of Yerushalem"
I agree that it was disrepectful; despite the churban that he is responsible for.
Even R'Zaks did not appreciate when people referred to him as that.
You should have omitted that statement. It belies of ignorance and of unhealthy and unrealistic hero worship that is unbecoming an intelligent person.
The MO are like Chabad in this respect. Look how many times they say 'the Rav' in one paragraph. (I am referring to an acadamic discussion, not a newspaper/PR rant)
"One is mesiras nefesh kipshutoy and the other one is a degree of fakalyadkeyt"
You switched perspectives, midstream. The discussion was focused on the Meshaleach, not the Shliach.
"You bet in needs big pleytzus to give the ok on such a thing."
On that we all agree.
Maybe
He was friendly with many people even he never met them in his gan eden hatachton, You know it but your evil blindness will never admit it
Maybe
He was more the RAV then Shach a Maran,
nobody ever wrote on him that he is Rashbi as the great goan Reb Mordechai Gross wrote on Maran
Maybe
I am no Mo but I am ready to debate it 24/7 The uncle is no comparison to the gadlus in torah, I am not talking Yiras Shomaim only hashem knows
"You switched perspectives, midstream. The discussion was focused on the Meshaleach, not the Shliach."
They are essentially one topic. The meshaleyach is responsible for the shiliach's action
"I am no Mo but I am ready to debate it 24/7 The uncle is no comparison to the gadlus in torah"
No problem. You decide how we shat up gadlus biToyrah and I am on
(Yiras Shamoyim is obvious, good thing you kept it to Teyreh)
'Maybe
He was more the RAV then Shach a Maran,
nobody ever wrote on him that he is Rashbi as the great goan Reb Mordechai Gross wrote on Maran'
So call him The Rebbe and make evryone happy.
'Maybe
He was friendly with many people even he never met them in his gan eden hatachton, You know it but your evil blindness will never admit it'
I have no doubt about that. He was very shrewd and politically savvy.
Sometimes, a political figure becomes so used to being in the limelight that he can slip and say something he will regret. Those instances are more revealing than hours of public speaches, books etc.
Ich geb aych a bayshpeil"
Yossel dr Plumber
"They are essentially one topic. The meshaleyach is responsible for the shiliach's action"
Nu, you answered your own question...the only issues are the Breidkeit of the Pleitzes and Veitkeit Fun Der Kook. Madison Ave or Pennsilvannia Ave or Lee Ave or Kharson circa 1919 are not the issue.
"Nu, you answered your own question...the only issues are the Breidkeit of the Pleitzes and Veitkeit Fun Der Kook. Madison Ave or Pennsilvannia Ave or Lee Ave or Kharson circa 1919 are not the issue."
Reb Yid, bisichley hakuten, I don't understand you.
I want to know what was the justification for sending these bachurim there?
My guess, is something like
a) they will be protected due to the mitzvah
b) it is worth it to give up your own ruchiniyus for yenem's.
To be shoykel these issues fudertzach breyter platzes.
But what was the rational?
"I have no doubt about that. He was very shrewd and politically savvy."
Shrewd and street smart the Rebbe was not and likewise he was not political savvy,der alter of Benai Berak was street smart a good community organizer look at the political party he created,
The Rebbe was a intelectual fanatic with Emuna Peshuta of a Yidishe Babey.
Maybe
"No problem. You decide how we shat up gadlus biToyrah and I am on"
my figures are done and decided, how about yours?
oy! the gehennom I'll get for allowing these comments about the Rebbe through...
Hirshel
I was at Biegeleisen and I saw probably 35 seforim on the subject of Kidush Hachama from every crowd and chug, No Rebbe or rov has a biur on the meat and potatoes of the subject, its all toirelech upon toirelech. But 1 Rebbe discussd the shitas of Shmuel and Reb Ada and the rambam in Kidush Hachodesh, that was the Rebbe, the professional haters like Maybe and his ilk are vilifying 24/7. so tell is this sinas am horetz letalmid chochom or what?
snag
(is it mutar to call someone with such an appellation?) I owe you a response. Being busy with giving out matzos and getting Jews to attend a seder, does not allow me the luxury. BL"N after pesach I will try to find an appropriate post in which to respond.
"Shrewd and street smart the Rebbe was not and likewise he was not political savvy"
He knew it would have made a good photo op if he met with a respect Litvisher
"the professional haters like Maybe and his ilk are vilifying 24/7. so tell is this sinas am horetz letalmid chochom or what?"
There was a bachor in Nitra who learnt a vey cheshbones of the kikyon dyonah with his Rebbe, fifty years ago.
Your Rebbe never saw that shtickle and the oylem haemes he is looking into the heilgeh tent of that buchor and mir luzt ehm nisht areyn
Maybe
"No problem. You decide how we shat up gadlus biToyrah and I am on"
my figures are done and decided, how about yours?
I all game. You get to start. Once your at it you can proove that he was greater than Rav Bengis, once you are going for all the post holocaust gedeylim
You are not MO, you are a Lubab and you shop in Beigeliesen.
"der alter of Benai Berak was street smart a good community organizer look at the political party he created,"
You bet. No one was better at oysshmeken. Most of the groups he destroyed agree to that and say 'he was right about everyone else, except us'
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