The approbation issued by the Tchortkover Rebbe, Reb Yisroel, zt"l to the Khersoner Genizeh. The man who printed it was the grandfather of the Bros. Biegeleisen. That's right, the two smartest and greatest booksellers of our generation. Their grandfather was the first man to print it.
24 comments:
Khersoner Genizeh.
mah zeh?
The Bray
Is this the first time you visit the Circus? it is being brought up constantly
-Bray: Whatever it was in the past, in the context of this blog it has become merely a red-herring in order to 'break down' cogent Lubavitcher arguments . . .
I was always under the impression that the Bigeleizens were Belzers from year Gimel,Because Yakir was a big chosid of Belz, why did he get a chortkover Haskoma?
any child who studied the works of the Basht see that the geniza is a fraud
i guess a lot of tsadikim were stupid ch'v. Watch you mouth!!
Chernovitser- Boyaner took Rayats to din Toire about it saying: If it is real, it is mine, i f it is not- say so.
The opinion of the Minchas Elazar is that the Chersoner Genizah was a forgery. Here is a link to where he discusses it , Divrei Torah 5, Tes.
Apologies if this appeared in previous posts.
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=4710&st=&pgnum=13
Anon,4:58
get me a child or a adult that saw some torah of the besht of his autographed handwriting, the whole Todoth,Zaphnath Paneach,Porat yossef, is Mipi Hashmeuah OF HIS great Talmud of Polnoeh,so is with the Tzavat Harivash as the famous words in Tanya that he did not write...
what exactly are you talking about? their is only 1 letter printed in Porat Yossef and thats it.
Anon,
Whoever knows the subject, knows that the Lubavicher Rebbe quotes already the Munkatcher in his long debate with the publisher of the Igrois Baal Hatanye
Russian Chusid
why was it a issue with the Holy Rayatz? if it was bought by the Gevirim the Gurary family, and given to the holy Rayatz as a gift. are u sure with this story? or its some half baked rumor? its interesting that the Kapisnitzer Rebbe took a Gurary for a son in law? didn"t he know what you know that he is from Mispachas Haganovim?
Lubavitch has wasted much capitol on the Khersoner Geniza. Any amateur can tell that the letters are forged and bubbe maasos. I understand that since the great Rasha"b fell for it (did he?), the later Rebbes are obligated to accept it but it's sad nevertheless.
Gedolim were fooled by the Yerushalmi on Kodoshim. Yet, they retracted when confronted with the truth. Lubavitch should have retracted also, but of course, now is too late.
I"d like to see something about the Bris in Belz, with Horav Elyoshiv as Sandak.
A true Kiddush Hashem of achdus.
Lovely pics too.
http://www.bhol.co.il/news_read.asp?id=19024&cat_id=2
Herson in the so-called Novorossija(land taken by the Tzars from Moslems)was a center of Torah Judaism before the Churban
In the a.m. Erlicht books he brings others against the KG...including the gerrer rebbies etc...i once spoke to r yosh mondshine and when the KG SUBJECT came up he was visably upset...
"Yet, they retracted when confronted with the truth."
They still insist the sun goes round the earth!
עיין בספר זכרון מהר"ר משה ליפשיץ ז"ל מה ששמע מפיו של ר' חיים ליבערמאן ע"ה מזכירו הנאמן של הריי"צ אודות זיוף החרסונית, אביא את הדברים בערך כפי שהם מונחים בזכוריני.
פעם הלך ר' משה הנ"ל לבקרו בלווי אברכים חובבי היסטוריה, כמדומה שרח"ל שהה אז באשל אברהם שבוומ"ס, קודם שנכסו לחדרו הזהיר את ר' משה את פמליתו לבל יזכירו דבר וחצי דבר בדבר הגניזה, כיוון שהינה נושא רגיש אצלו.
אחד מהנוכחים הבין איפכא... ומיד כאשר נכסו אצלו העלה את הנושא, ושאל לרח"ל דעתו לגבי הגניזה.
נענה ר' חיים: זיוף...
שאל הלה: הלא הרבי (ריי"צ) אמר שהמה דא"ח?
נתחוורו פניו של ר"ח כסיד ואחז לא בהשלחן ואמר בקול רועד: אם הרבי אמר שהוא דא"ח הרי שכח היה צריך לומר! אבל לגבי הגניזה, בוודאי שהוא זיוף גמור, הכרתי אישית את הזייפן, הי' איש עני מריר וזייפה להרוויח.
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עד כאן (בערך) מספר הזכרון הנ"ל.
ר' משה ליפשיץ כאשר סיפרה הדגיש את גודל אמונת צדקים של רח"ל, שאפילו כאשר דברי רבו נסתרו מאת המציאות האמין כי דבריו קודש קדשים המה.
While we're talking about things like the yerushalmi on kodshim, can we bring up the zohar too? Or are some things sacred even for you people?
Emes, the Biegeleisen brothers are the greatest and smartest booksellers of our generation, because they know which books will sell. Similarly, I suspect, they zeide knew that a book about the Chersoner Geniza will sell well; but in no way does that add any credence to the authenticity of the Geniza.
Biegeleisen sells many seforim/books which people on this blog will respectively condemn to be sheker vechozov and/or praise to be emes leamito.
It was not a issue with Rayats ch'v.
Gurari is a voile mishpuche also, and they were not the one who stole it- they bought it legit.Just same way as Shwarts bought sfurim from Berry and then returned it, if the gniza is emesdik (which it is not) it belongs to the Rizhiner kinder.
Russian chosid
"if the gniza is emesdik (which it is not) it belongs to the Rizhiner kinder."
plz. explain how it works, you only own it, when its true, if its trash then the others will take to recycling.
Anon,
"but in no way does that add any credence to the authenticity of the Geniza."
do you have a Idea who Yosef Chaim Bigeleisen was? his personality?
Chazal say Chazoke Al Chover ... Dovor Sheinoi Mesukan, who gives you the right to accuse this Yosef Chaim printing and selling a forgery for commercial reason, ?
Anon,
Since we live in a country of freedom of speech, I dare to poke some holes in that moshe lipshutz story,
as you know that Chaim Liberman was the maven in the Bies Horav on matters of Book libraries etc.. you can see it in the Igrois Kodesh, so if he knew that he was famous a forger, then why didn"t he voice his opinion when the FR started printing these manuscripts in the Hatomim in Warsaw? was he MIA for all these years?
Why did the Gurarys spend money for sthat are famously forged,
If the forger was that infamous then why did the Chortkover give a warm haskoma for the sefer, was he that isolated? As far as I know Reb Yisroel Chortkover was not naive,
City of Cherson. This region was settled by Jews from White Russia who came to farm the land there. It was well known that it was not exactly the most learned region in Russia, I recall speaking to R. Zemach Gurevitz Shub ZTL amny years ago, who told me this about the area and the Yidden there.
Of course like in all areas of eastern Europe , things were subject to change (Marmorash in the early 19th century was a place of deep am haaraztus and over the next 50 years it really changed for the better or Bohemia was a place of lomdus and 50 years after the petirah of the Noda Biyehuda was a center of ignornace etc) and there were a hard core of klei kodesh, and Chabad peopel who were far from pashute people.
In pictures of Soviet collective farsms from the 1930's you see Jews with beards and kasketen there who were obviously very frumOne can only imagine their suffering first at the hands of the Russian Whites and then their spiritual suffering at the hands of the Communits and then their destruction by the Nazis..
Shneur
was Cherson one of the places that the Miteller rebbe established or helped to established?
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