Tuesday, October 26, 2010

eVERYBODY'S hERO!



So now, all of a sudden we can't get enough of Rabbi Aron Krauss of Williamsburg. I had never heard of him before, and I'd bet that most of you hadn't either. But today he's very famous. He said what nobody dared say in public, and since it was after the z'man Motzoei Shabbos already he was recorded too. No he doesn't know what to do himself anymore. Now he needs to refuse interviews. Vos Iz Neias, that bastion of Torah values, found themselves a gold mine with this speech. Hundreds of (mostly idiotic) comments they got on the story. As if they care about kids on the street... Even COLlive got into the act and brought the story. After all, we all care about kids on the street, now don't we? But there are those that do care, and they try and save those kids that are stigmatized for not being "MiTzeeYoonim." There are Yeshivos that take them in, and not for $25,000 a year either. But it'll take some time until parents realize that it's more important to worry about the bochur's current life than to worry about what kind of shiddukh he'll make 5 years from now. That sometimes a few years in a program that caters to you will be more beneficial than subjecting the child to boredom, ridicule and turture.


I've heard from several krante mekores that this Rabbi Kraus is a very special Yid, and that hundreds come to hear him every week, so I'm not doubting his sincerity (although one may have to wonder if he was burned by some מוסד once upon a time, and that's what causing him to speak out against his own people like that. IOW, it may have taken a major incident for him to get the courage to speak out like that and not worry about repercussions.) What I do doubt is what all this talk will accomplish. We sit here and applaud him for supposedly taking on the Yeshivos and challenging prospective donors not to fund such institutions, but most of us would kill to have our kids attend those mosdos... We'd be very proud come shiddukh time. And not funding them, especially if done so out of principle, doesn't exactly put you on their good list. We all hem and haw when asked about our kids if he's in a non-mainstream מוסד. So goes the world when you live for yenem and nisht for zich. You think about what's good for society and not for you and your children. And in the end you suffer anyway; your "square-peg" kids are forced into "round-hole" mosdos, and the result is a squashed child or children. So what did you accomplish exactly??? Rabbi Kraus doesn't just talk, he has a Yeshivah for such boys, but what about all of us who claim to care; what will WE do about the situation???!!!

70 comments:

Anonymous said...

In the Ltivisheh community, many yeshivos that are labled as "B-yeshivos" have sprouted forth in the last couple of years. The amount of yeshivos, especialy misitvas, has doubled over the last ten to fifteen years. Obviously, only some of them cater to "Mitzuyanim". Anyways, the real problem is not what to do with non-Mitzuyanim, but to think of a solution for those that aren't holding by learning, for whatever reason; their parents and society undervalue learning and have no qualms about their son turning out to be a union-member who reads the hebrew Artscroll for a few minutes a day, or to a kid who has learning disabilites or with a low self esteem.
IOW: where do we put these kids who aren't holding by learning, is the real question. How do we keep them in the fold?

Anonymous said...

how we pray for buhnim
who r' mitzuyunim
not doin' mivtoim
minglin' w/ goyim

kids who are arayngituhn
basking in the sun
not farbrenging
in a forein setting

Eli R. said...

Tzig,
You are lucky this
has
nothing
to do with you or lesch or your kids.
Lubavitch ha no
yeshiva lemutsiyoonim or metsiyoonim.
So it's easy to croticize

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Eli R

I'm lucky I don't know who you are, because if I did I'd have a hard time dealing with you

what utter stupidity!

306 said...

Lubavitch has no yeshivas for excelling boys.
We dodged the bullet

Eli R. said...

Hirshel
I thought you were used to idiots.
Especially when all the people around you are not EXACTLY Einsteins.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

yes, but you take the cake, Eli R., and you make it difficult even after all these years...

Shloimy said...

The big Lubab geworener tawker.
Go drink more Kool-Aid

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

yes, Eli R, you take the cake. And you just proved yourself. Again.

Kvutza said...

Whom is Kraus?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I think we've reached a new low here, people. Where we write about a serious topic and all we can elicit from our readers are attacks against me for no reason.

Sad, indeed.

The Bray of Fundie said...

The problem with the "B" yeshivas in "learning" is that hey tend to be "C" in yiras shomayim.

Anonymous said...

"I think we've reached a new low here, people. Where we write about a serious topic and all we can elicit from our readers are attacks against me for no reason."

You were the one who called me stupid.
I just reminded you to not be abusive

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

why do you say that Bray?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

no, my friend

you brought my kids and Lubavitch into this, when it had no relevance. If you have nothing to say about the topic then pass!

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I called what you said stupidity. Not you stupid.

יחי ההבדל

Anonymous said...

I"m sorry but I did not bring your kids into this as a put down.I just stated that "mitsyunim" is not in the Lubavitcher lexicon.
I apologize if I was misunderstood

Monroe, kj said...

What kind of yeshiva does Rabbi Krauss run?

Anonymous said...

Rabbi Kraus has his own yeshiva, so what exactly are his policies? does he have a big tent policy that everyone is welcomed? I don't fall for his demagoguery? Michoel Schnitzler had a song on that problematic theme it became a famous sticker that the ink faded already.
Does anyone remember Rav Krauses father when he resided in LA?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

can we stay on topic here and not drag his father into this?
not that I know who his father was...

Anonymous said...

I live a few blocks from a school that takes in the children no one, but no one will have. Children who can't talk, deaf, children with very low cognitive abilities.The school has special teachers who manage to make something of these kids. Many are hired by the local schools to clean up after meals. These children become the best workers, take their job seriously and always show up for work.

The issue is more than taking in everybody or not. Programs both in torah and secular studies have to be developed so that kids work at their maximum, but are not challenged to do what they neither have an interest or the capacities to do. What is required is that either yeshivas merge and develop a critical mass or they specialize. A general yeshiva with one class per grade does not have a great deal of freedom to serve kids according to their abilities.

Anonymous said...

Hirshel
their was noting bad with his father he was a warm ungarisher chasidisher yid with a little yedia in kabala.

Yerachmiel Lopin said...

In much of the frum world we have yeshivas stratified by the abilities of the students. Does the reputation of the yeshiva reflect the quality of the learning offered or just the quality of the students? Do any of the students learn anything about working well with different people with different strengths. Or, do they develop narrow skills and great gavah?

In this competitive world I suspect there is cheating of different kinds. When winning the competition is the only thing, whatever is not tip-top gets covered up by the hanhalah or the students whether it is midos, belief, or even certain learning deficits. Naturally, this is done even more for the children of the rich.

I suspect this excacerbates the divorce between the metrics of the shidduch market and virtues needed for building community.

grainom said...

gut gezugt. i personally know of a B mesivta in monsey that kvetches ois every last drop of blood from the parents in tuition. you cant pay, take him home...

Anonymous said...

bray is on the money %100 sadly

Anonymous said...

his father rav aron krauss is still revered to this day in LA by those that knew him...

Anonymous said...

his fathers name was Shmuel, he is Aron

Anonymous said...

Lopin,

What's up with the "strasified" and "metrics"? You think the average reader here knows WTH UR talking about? Are these code words from White Surpremecy groups?

Anonymous said...

grainomwhats the payroll of the machers in that yeshiva?P

Ceicel said...

Tzig speaking about agendas!
Your agenda is to force us, the rational heimishe oilem to accept someone as 'manhig hador' 'nossi hador, moshiach etc who we have never felt comfortable with, BEORE this false moshiach mess.Get it???
Do you want us to accept it now, when those 'fremdeh' concepts have given birth to a whole cult, that pushes the deceased Rebbe as alive forever and ever, at best or as 'Boreinu' chas vesholom?
You so called 'normal' Chabadskers have your own problems and don't want/know how to deal with it so you 'project' your nonsense on us.We don't hate you, we have rachmonus.Get up, kick the crazies out of your midst, realize the Rebbe screwed up a bit, but that does not take away from the great things he achieved

Moshe S. said...

http://theantitzemach.blogspot.com/search?q=K%C3%B6nigsberg%2C

FERD

Levy said...

One of the biggest problems facing Chabad today is that many Lubavitchers think that because Chabad is open, caring, and does not judge people, therefore we cannot have any standards, and we have to accept everything and everyone. What lunacy! Where does this mindset come from?

We DO have standards! Of course we do!

Remember the story of the Frediker Rebbe throwing a bochur out of Tomchei Tmimim simply because his yarmulka fell off while sleeping? He was a good bochur, but his yarmulka falling off was an indication of his yiras shamayim not being 1000%, and he was dismissed. Talk about standards!

The Rebbe was also selective with bochrim. When bochur-shlichus first began, beginning with Melbourne, the talmidim chosen to go on shlichus were all handpicked by the Rebbe himself - and he chose only elite bochrim to go. He didn't say, "This is Chabad, everyone is equal, let's send some of the below-average bochrim". He picked only the best.

Standards and Chabad are NOT a contradiction. Yeshivos have the right to set their own standards, and they should continue to do so.

Fed up said...

This made me cry
Bec. this unfortunately is the truth (I've experienced it first hand with my own son), it brought tears to my eyes to read that someone was actually brave enough to speak up about this terrible issue which we have right here in Crown Heights. My son has been home for 2 months now bec. NO school is willing to accept him. Is this how we treat our community members? SHAME ON YOU ALL!!!!!!!

Zev said...

Any thoughts about Mishpacha magazines article on chinuch pinned on Vosizneias?

LikeWhatever said...

Grainem
"gut gezugt. i personally know of a B mesivta in monsey that kvetches ois every last drop of blood from the parents in tuition. you cant pay, take him home..."

And how may I ask is this B Yeshiva supposed to fund itself?

Nebach. This poor Rosh yeshiva was brave enough to open a 'Beis' Yeshiva without having any 'Moiridige Feste' name of the 'shtarkste makoim toireh'.

How would you like such a Yeshiva to operate?!

snagville said...

Tzig,

It's amazing (and must depress you), that when you post an amazing post or at least an important one, you get either new comments or the most asinine comments. But when you talk about Ich Veis the size of the pinch in the Rebbes' hat you will get 100 comments and from all the players too (shneur etc). Unreal.

Anon3 said...

Ceicel
First of all a person who has abrogated onto himself the name "Ceicel" should learn how to spell correctly, even phonetically.
"The rational heimishe oilem"????.Do you really think that such an entity really exists? Does your so called "Ceicel" give you the authority to pass judgement on Lubavitch or anything else for that matter?
You pontificate with the airs of someone who is under the twisted illusion that you and this none existent "rational heimishe oilem" are ubermenshin.
Unless you have something constructive and intelligent to add to this forum go back to the rats nest that you crept out of.
"Ceicel".Oich mir ah nomen.It's hard to believe that such aberrations to humanity really exist until some of them spit out their foul regurgitations every so often.Feh!!!!!!!

lost in CA said...

Anonymous said...
his father rav aron krauss is still revered to this day in LA by those that knew him..."

I remember his father very well (his name was shmuel or shmeel for the hunks) he wasn't revered by anyone other than some wierdos and baalei machlokes, v'hameivin yovin. He got along with no one, and tried his best to steer up any machlokes he can, starting with cholov yisroel milk and passeling a women's mikva. The story whispered about him was that he was kicked out of lakewood for saying some disparaging things about RAK. I don't hold it against his son, but reading this article he definitely has his father's derech of stirring up the pot. It seems he's doing it for good reasons and l'shem shomyim. Gra'de his mother was(is?) a real rebbitzen, a machnis oirach, and a very kind soul.

Anonymous said...

Fed Up
"My son has been home for 2 months now bec. NO school is willing to accept him."
since you are anonymus can you please tell us the offical reason of the institution, why him out of another 1000 kids?
don"t do cheap mudslinging.

Anonymous said...

Levy
I am confused the next poster claims that his son is out from Yeshiva in the chabad neihborhhod of CH,
are their standards in Chabad or not?

LikeWhatever said...

Levy.

In prewar europe Yeshivos were a novelty. FYI in 1938-9 when all yeshivos gathered in Vilna there were a total of app 3000 Talmidim. There were at least 1,000,000 frumme yidden prewar...Do the math...

Today theres a mandatory everyone-gets-schooled system.

No Shaychis

Sruly said...

It's "yechi hahevdel hakatan"

Anonymous said...

As someone who worked in a yeshiva for many years, and worked davka with the 'problem' bochrim. you must understand that each and every bochur is a unique parsha.
I had bochrim with NO learning kishronos, that were the happiest people, loved the ruach of the yeshiva, and the chevrashaft.
And I had Metzuyonim that were matzliach in learning, only to drop down a hole in yiras shomayim

That said.
There are general overarching pressures that need to be considered.

Unidentified learning disability's.
This can cause huge frustrations for a bochur that needs to sit 12-15 hours a day and learn.

Coming from a home that speaks loshon horah at the shabbos table, or that the father is an 'askan' in community politics.
Such a bochur has a major problem receiving any direction from a Rosh Yeshiva and the mashgiach, as he has been trained not to respect others.

Credit Cards.
Giving a bochur access to cash, sending a bochur to Eretz Yisroel and giving the bochur a CC to visit "mekomos Hakdoshim" and buy food.
as the gemoro says "v'tole kis btzavoro.. ma yase haben she'lo yechto"
(just look at you child's photo albums...)
A bochur in Yeshiva needs to be in poverty, as all his needs are met. food etc.
Give the menahel $300 cash to give to the bochur as needed!

more to come...

Lesch said...

I was surprised to see on COL that even in Chabad this is an issue

Sam said...

Dont you think that Rabbi Aron Krauz and Rabbi Yehuda Levin should join forces? I think they'll make a great team!!

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Fed Up

We'd all like to help you and your son, but what are the details behind his not being accepted?

Anonymous said...

Sam
Rav Kraus is touching a valid issue, and he delivered it with fire and brimstones. and plz don"t hook him up with the one track minded Yehuda Levin that is hurting his cause more then he mends it.

Git Ungefraasket said...

Es iz nisht azoi pushet -
Avadeh every child needs a Yeshiva. What's the shayleh. But does every private Yeshiva need to accept every child? Why is it his chiyuv more than YOU businessmans'? Why don't the gevirim get together and build more Yeshivahs, and davka for these boys... And not call it a shvache yeshiva, call it a bekiyus yeshiva or some other creative name. It's all in the packaging...

Anonymous said...

Git ungfarasket
Gut Gezogt,

Cecil said...

I've noticed, that save for a few select bloggers the majority of the activity here happens only when Snags and politics are discussed, and more so when dirty laundry is aired or a Chabad Rabbi criticized. There have been times when a story does get attention, but even then it often stems from a tangential turn the story takes.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

and whom do we blame for this, Cecil?

Anon3 said...

Cecil? is this the same guy as "Ceicel"? It seems that he still hasn't learned how to spell correctly.Same style,same noxious fumes.

C said...

So, were all about love. I don’t think that there is a valid case to be made of this great vast Lubavitch conspiracy to cover up the horrible truth. If so, then let’s wipe everyone out! It’s time for SCORCHED EARTH! We can pull out the negatives of every man, group, movement, government, religion, you name it. We can emphasize the negative all day long! It won’t make anything about the world better. Or, we can stress the positive, and maybe get somewhere.

Anonymous said...

Mr C
your rambling is very close to the apocalyptic preacher on 42nd st NYC

eicel said...

In the Yeshivishe-Litvishe world today there are basically 2 groups, Yeshivishe and "Modern". What I mean is that although both groups attend the same elementary schools, the same Mesivtos and Yeshivos, daven in the same shuls, and live in the same neighborhoods the more modern are not part of the Yeshivishe world, unless they become a full-fledged "Yeshivishe guys" and girls. This does wonders for the percentage of Bnei Torah that lead "Torahdige lives", making the Yeshivishe system seem almost fail-proof.

Anonymous said...

THE BOTTOM LINE IS NO ONE STANDS UP FOR THE LITTLE GUY...

No matter how much they say gashmiuys isn't the iker....money is not as important as Torah or Yiras Shumayim....

THEY ALL TALK THE TALK BUT WHEN WILL THEY WALK ...

They are all scared their kids will not live in comfort lolam vued so they such up to the rich rather than having to worry where the next dollar is coming from....

How can they expect us to live with Emunah when they all do anything for money and koved... ?

When is the last time you saw a Rebbe being hosted by a pauper because he wanted to stay with a yiras shumayim...or eating from a anything less than China.....

Not every Rebbe or Rosh Yeshivah is a Rhiziner....

When was the last time a Rebbe publicly rebuked a chasid for doing wrong like the Klausenburger and Satmar Rebbe used to ?

Who is protecting yosher and teaching our kids right from wrong... ?

What values are we giving our kids wRebbes are fighting over money and koved.....

Why are haimishe kids know as the worst behaved kids in NY outside of the poorest hispanic and black communities ?

Long boring years at cheider followed by long boring years in kollel.....nothing to look forward to... unless they sneak off and do things they officially are not allowed to do...

Someone said it perfectly...the community rules are made for those who don't have enough money ....

In haimishe communities... NO MONEY + NO YICHES = TREATED LIKE DREK....

SatmarTc said...

I was told that in the olden days, in Lubavitch they were not accepting every student,only MiTzeeYoonim
is this info correct?

Anonymous said...

Satmar
The criteria in Lubavich shebeLubavich was Yiras Hashem, not the Lomdus they were scared from Socialism, Zionism and all Isims that were a plague on Klal Yisroel. After the war the doors were opened to everyone

Anon3 said...

There is some truth in that which anonymous 10/27 11:27 PM: writes but-not everyone is bored in school or kollel, not everyone values only the rich..this is a bitter, disgruntled man, whoREALLY wants the kovod himself, has not found a niche in life, does not belong to any community, etc. I feel sorry for him..what an unhappy man. to him the glass is always half empty.....sad.

LikeWhatever said...

"the community rules are made for those who don't have enough money ...."

Thats a gevaldige line.
The Ingerishe vertel goes... at the end of the Parsha from Erva it says "Dumeyhem bum... Der Gelt is by zei"

LikeWhatever said...

Git Ungefrassket:
"And not call it a shvache yeshiva, call it a bekiyus yeshiva or some other creative name. It's all in the packaging..."

Great Point. R Dovid Levi from Peleh Yoetz in Yerushalayim is preaching this idea for years. To have within one yeshia two different masechtos with differen names like Bekiyus Iyen or even Gitten Kedushen and each Masechta being learnt on different levels.

The term Alef and Beis class or yeshivos is degrading and wrong. Its a subconcious strategy of The Elite wanting their elitism to stay that way. and they will continue lehachis to call themselves 'Metzuyanim','Alef', Beste, Shtarkste, Etc

Git Ungefraasket said...

We probably need a Reb Shrage Feivel type of person that is creative to reinvent the entire Yeshiva system.
All chachomim here- think what I'm saying. There was no business plan in the 40's and 50's how yiddishkeit will flourish and how it will be funded. It just happened.
One of the main problems is money. Right now the giant Mosdos are reaping in monies and wasting yiddish gelt without a din vecheshbon. The small mosdos can't compete - so they will fold one by one. We need a NEW TORAH UMESORA! One central Organization to pull this all together. Anyone think this could happen without Moshiach?
Is there such a person alive?

LikleWhatever said...

GitUngefraasket:

So really what you are saying is, that the Yeshiva system wasnt designed. It evolved. It grew like a wild mushroom.

True. However our hope lies in the fact that the giant mosdos are based on public money, and slowly but surely the masses are stopping to be asses; they are catching on.

This Krausz publicity stunt proves the oilam is fed up.

Torah Umesorah is unfortunatly a total mess. They have Zero leadership and are still in orbit on a long expired mission .

The LikeWhatever prediction:
Somwhere down the line, in the next 30 years, there will be a true financial meltdown. Anti-Semitsm will rise to dangerous levels. It will be hard to buy 6.7 inch Shtreimels, Lakewood Kollel system will become unfeasable...
And the oilam will leave Heimishism in the Hoards. U'll see shtreimlich on Ebay starting .50 cents.

IN THE VACUUM THAT FOLLOWS. A true leader will emerge and... the cycle will begin once again.

LChaim

LikeWhatever said...

Tzig why dont you write about this hafgana today.
Like Krausz just finnished shreying and nobody gives a damn bone. the only thing we get is HUGE posters about is DEAD BONES for heaven sakes!
What about the LIVE souls hangin out in manhatten?

Git Git Ungefraasket said...

Like....
Oy. You seem to think along my lines, but I won't say it. Ich hub moireh. But what I was trying to say is that NOW is the time to "Reinvent" and plan a seicheldige mehalach. We have groisse kep to make gelt - and lots of it. But NO-ONE to think vus geit doo zein. And it's in all our circles. The eibishter zol halten di rechte hant -we don't want to look like the Refromers in 30 years from now.
Vesechzeno eineinu beshivcho letzion berachamim.

LikeWhatever said...

GU:
Dont worry. We have a long mesorah of not thinking ahead. It started with the Babeh Chavah, continued thru with Both Churbanos, all the way to WW2. Just practice the Beracha Al Kiddush Hashem untill its shagur beficha.

Untill then spend some time with your kids so that they will be strong enough to survive the Fraaskes

yeruchem G said...

Like

what don't you understand? If we stand up for the dead G-d will stand up for the living. He has a plan, we just sit back and watch it unfold. The only thing he wants us to do is fight the Zionists, all other things are in the hands of G-d.

The Bray of Fundie said...

why do you say that Bray?

Tuesday, October 26, 2010 6:17:00 PM

experience. מבשרי אחזה

Wertzberger said...

Yeruchem! Hashem Yerachem!
Ata meshuga!

Yeruchem G said...

Wertzberger

I was being facetious.

look it up.