Thursday, October 7, 2010

Jeshurun


Reb Zalman Havlin, z"l

You guys wanna know why I don't comment on the recent Jeshurun hit piece? Very simple. I haven't seen it. I've heard lots of people talk about it, but I haven't seen it. And none of you knackers had the common decency to scan it and send it to me. You want me to lay out 20+ dollars just so that I can work even harder for you? Fuggedaboudit! It's also very hard to trust people like Prof. Havlin [author of the article] who very clearly has an agenda, i.e. fighting his grandfather's battle re: Yeshiva Toras Emes and Lubavitch. He won't rest until he makes Lubavitch look REALLY bad. Professors do that from time to time to time, they write books about people they dislike and claim to have no bias one way or the other... There's another recently-published book - also about Lubavitch - that makes the same claim! I heard they even got some computer program to match the writing styles of the Besh"t's letters there and elsewhere. Now that's something. All in the name of truth, of course.

There! I've opened another Pandora's Box for y'all.

34 comments:

Anonymous said...

Hirshel,
The article of the computer idiot is also in the Yeshurun,this idiot is the only one that has chidushim in the whole Yeshurun Cherson edition. But Havlin has no Chidushim in their.

Reb Chaim HaQoton said...

What does the oilam think about the article in ירושתנו about whether the Haflo'ah was Hassidic?

Friendly Anonymous said...

Now that is a tziyur of a chosid!!!

Anonymous said...

thats why you pre dated this post...

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

the pre-dating was a mistake.

dov said...

Hirshel,Leyben
Let's not open up a pandoras box about the Havlins,k?
Just like you "claim" that Professor Havlin has an "agenda",don't you think that "somebody else" had an "agenda"??
So let's leave "agendas" alone for a sec, if you are maskim,git??

Btw, what was R'Dovid Tzvi Hillmans "agenda" in Tov shin yud gimmel, before all the machloikes?

Read Havlins article and see that the "agendas" is your dimyon.
The bottom line is that no serious historian even has a "hava amina" that this genizah is not a poor forgery.
In the greater scheme of things the "Genizah" has little historical relevance.The question is why Chabad went out on a limb to claim it's "authenticity" when even the mevinim there know it's not authentic.
I don't get it

Anonymous said...

Dov
If Havlin has a agenda that he can not veer off of Chabads back, then he has to be answered, His Ziede tried to steal the Mosdois from Chabad and sell it as his own piece of property, he lost in Bies Din by the dayan Elieshev and the Court system, he went on to Masser all of chabad.I am not in the Loshen Hora business but it is all the base for Havlins anti chabad stance for the last few decades in order to whitewash his grandfather low life life tactics.

Yisroel said...

Is this professor havlin related to the 2 lubavitch havlin brothers (heichal menachem yerushalayim, rav kiryat gat)?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

yes, he's related.

Dov said...

Anonymous:7:49
I wish you would get a name.
Anyway, stop obfuscating the Genizah story with gebebteh mayses about Havlins grandfather.

Chabad have strange obsessions with this fake genizah and another one of their favorites is the Golem of Prague.
I"m sure you never read the articles in Yeshurun or the testimony of R'Chaim Liberman that he knew the forgerer.I bet you don't even know that the Tomim that was printed in Warsaw by Lubavitch, mentions that even Rayyat'z thought they were forgeries in the beginning.

Does it make a difference?No, but it shows that Chabads handle on history is very biased and subjective.

Anonymous said...

"What does the oilam think about the article in ירושתנו about whether the Haflo'ah was Hassidic?"

Where is the link or can u scan/

abzstocks said...

Keren Zavies says the minhag in chabad to say. Chitas in the middle of chazaras hashatz is
For sure in the name of truth.

Anonymous said...

I am Lubavitch and I have no idea what the geniza is. Can you please explain?

SHLOMO said...

I like the way you call it "Jeshurun hit piece"

You admit to not reading it, yet in your infinite wisdom "know" it's a hit piece.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

shlomo

NO, not infinite wisdom, I'm just repeating what people told me, just like your gedolim would do when it came to Lubavitch

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

anon 4:40pm

please do NOT ask that question in public again, it makes you look bad, and it makes Lubavitch look bad too. Look it up or ask your mashpia.

Anonymous said...

speaking about Pandora's box, lets go full steam ahead and address Zohar.
Is it true there's Spanish word "esnoga" is prominently featured?

orthodoxjew said...

whats wrong its not a hit piece its very well researched
u dont answer it u just scream its a hit piece shame on u

An Ailmesher said...

Tzig,

The Cherson genizah must be one of the most obvious forgeries in history.

The only think I don't understand is how the Rebbes, who definitely knew that language of the letters did not match that of the Alter Rebbe, could believe that the letters were true. Why did they insist that it was true? It makes no sense.

Are we really sure that the Rasha"b believed in the Cherson Geniza?

SHLOMO said...

"NO, not infinite wisdom, I'm just repeating what people told me, just like your gedolim would do when it came to Lubavitch"

You don't even know if I am a Chabadnik who does not like accusing others about "hit jobs" before they actually READ the piece.

So what makes you assume that I"m not Lubavitch??

Anonymous said...

Dov
If a issue not discussed about, then how does Lubavich has a obsession with the genizah. You have a Lubavich hate obssesion

Anonymous said...

I am looking forward for Prof. havlin's peice on the Yohar, since there is not one meivin that believes that it is not a forgery...!
What about the Chimish, did Moshe rabbeinu really write it? Is there any prof. that believes so? And what about the guy that wrote the computer-basede article in Yeshurun, does he belive Moshe wrote it?

friendly Anonymous said...

Everyone agrees that many of the medrashim in the Zohar predate Ponce De Leon. The only question is by how much.

Anonymous said...

How come you haven't written a word about the story that's rocking Belz that 4 yungeleit went to Uman and have been threatened with expulsion of them and their kids?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

How come you haven't written a word about the story that's rocking Belz that 4 yungeleit went to Uman and have been threatened with expulsion of them and their kids?

בקרוב, בעז"ה

Anonymous said...

An Ailimisher
the rebbe writes in his letter for the Geniza that the Tochen has alot in common with chasidic mesora, but alot of the titles and dates are wrong.

Anonymous said...

Dov

Dov
"I"m sure you never read the articles in Yeshurun or the testimony of R'Chaim Liberman that he knew the forgerer"
I read Kachmans proof on Lieberman but I still dont believe it, their are certain people that invested too much in their chabad hate, and I will not believe them even if they make a shevoua doireisa by a sefer torah on Yom Kippur.

dov said...

Anonymous605pm

"I read Kachmans proof on Lieberman but I still dont believe it, their are certain people that invested too much in their chabad hate, and I will not believe them even if they make a shevoua doireisa by a sefer torah on Yom Kippur."

Are you accusing "Kachman" of investing in hate??
You don't even know his name!

You are a total fool.There is not an ounce of hate in him.
You don't have to accept R'Chaim Libermans testimony, but, if you had a single honest bone in your body, you'd know that almost everyone was suspicious of these letters .

You are the type of guy who one should not argue with to save agmas nefesh.Your mind is made up before you even hear the other side

Anonymous said...

Dov
I know his name is Katzman the son the Rosh Yeshiva of torah vodaas, but he was not not their by Liberman only some chabad haters,as Moshe Shienert and his achim ledaye...

When I discuss with you the veracity of the meeting with Liberman then don't talk about the letters.

Anonymous said...

Dov
"You are the type of guy who one should not argue with to save agmas nefesh.Your mind is made up before you even hear the other side"
as long Yeshurin will only have articles that will throw 1 sided goof balls at Chabad as Kamenitzkies articles in the last couple of Yeshurin journals, Chabad is in the eyes of this wannabe Lamdan and Gas Ruach Gottesman is a Gavra Ketila, death on arrival because a certain now demised Tzorer haYehidim said so, the question is only where? when and how? so every Journal they are spewing hate upon hate. Don't tell me by this debates who his the open minded one? the Objective ?
They are censoring every article that has by accident some Chabad reference.

dov said...

Anonymous 2:18
You are talking about "gas ruach"?
You are the epitome of it,and noch der tzu a major ligenner.

Anonymous said...

Dov
Az Es Tut Vie Shriet Men..Hecher ...Hecher....

yom tov in der vochen said...

Hirshel,
Please stop allowing anonymous posts.
If someone is to lazy to choose a handle their comments are usually nasty and worthless

Anonymous said...

Is Yom in Der Vochen your name for aliya letorah? will it be inscripted on your tomb after the 140? or its anonymous?