Rav Chaim Kanievski says: 11 Sifrei Torah go up in flames in Vizhnitzer Shul in Bnei Beraq because they stopped using a generator on Shabbos in Vizhnitz. 60 years ago the Imrei Chaim had agreed to the request of the CI to use a generator and now they had reneged on that agreement. They use the municipality's electricity. Now the koved of the CI is demanding retribution, and got it. "The CI has a din Sefer Toreh," said Reb Chaim, when they disrespected a Sefer Torah this is what happened. Many of Reb Chaim's mentshen deny this vehemently, they say RCK never said such a thing. The Vizhnitzers say that the generator broke way back when the IC was still alive, pre-1972, and that Vizhnitz changed to electricity with his consent. Reb Chaim was noticeably absent from the massive levaya that took place last week.
Last week Rav Wosner said it was because they were not nizhar in Koved Beis Haknesses. This was also the reason why the Holocaust didn't do as much damage amongst the Sefardic Jews, Rav Wosner continued, since they did have Koved Bais HaKnesses. Vizhnitzers are very confused now, not knowing whether they need to correct both problems or not.
32 comments:
this is the one area where i resent anyone who isnt chabad there is a major difference and respect for those who point fingers and blame and those who galvanize hachlotos like mumbai and other tragedies
i have a dislike severly for those supposed gedolim who point fingers shamelessly at other peoples agony
To confusing... Poor people...
Silly me. And I thought that the mutual love and respect between Srultche and Mendel had anything to do with this.
Its my assumption that reb Chaim Kanievsky did not go to the Levaye because of the Ksav Tzadik which according to the CI is possul even bedieved and all chasidic Berochas on their Sifrie Torah are Levatola.If the genarator woud be the problem then it would make more sense that all the kuglech that were prepared for the big tisch shoul burn to coal.In Visnitz a friday night with no kugel is a mini Tishah beov.
Yoshe
where does the torah come in when u talk about this 2 fellows, they are staying away from torah like a person with a restrainig order..
1 question only
whay the number 11? is their 11 amps in the genarator?why Possule sifrie torah? was it a broken genarator.
they know, let them answer
Let's not let this discussion degrade. At the end of the day, 11 Sifrei Torah were burned.
a survivor told me, that the people who dont know why ww2 happened were out of shul by the tochacha... vda"l
Grainom
I guess that's why he thinks he survived, eh?
and also, Reb Elchonon Wasserman and the Piasecner Rebbe and the Karliner rebbe and the Bobover Rebbe and the Telsher Rov and Reisher Rov etc. etc. etc. were also out of shul, I guess...
Nobody knows why this terrible thing happened. I doubt very much that Rav chaim made such a statement.
I too don't believe Reb Chaim made that statement and until I hear an actual recording I will say this is ridiculous. No one knows why it happened...hanistoros lahashem elokeinu.
Chazon Ish? 1972? Um...Hirshel?
Lubavitcher Rebbe on the Holocaust. Geganvet from Wiki
What greater conceit and what greater heartlessness, can there be than to give a "reason" for the death and torture of millions of innocent men, women and children? Can we presume to assume that an explanation small enough to fit inside the finite bounds of human reason can explain a horror of such magnitude? We can only concede that there are things that lie beyond the finite ken of the human mind. It is not my task to justify God on this. Only God Himself can answer for what He allowed to happen. And the only answer we will accept, is the immediate and complete Redemption that will forever banish evil from the face of the earth and bring to light the intrinsic goodness and perfection of God's creation.
To those who argued that the Holocaust disproves the existence of God or His providence over our lives, Schneerson wrote:
On the contrary—the Holocaust has decisively disproven any possible faith in a human-based morality. In pre-war Europe, it was the German people who epitomized culture, scientific advance and philosophic morality. And these very same people perpetrated the most vile atrocities known to human history! If nothing else, the Holocaust has taught us that a moral and civilized existence is possible only through the belief in and the acceptance of the Divine authority. Our outrage, our incessant challenge to God over what has occurred—this itself is a most powerful attestation to our belief in Him and our faith in His goodness. Because if we did not, underneath it all, possess this faith, what is it that we are outraged at? The blind workings of fate? The random arrangement of quarks that make up the universe? It is only because we believe in God, because we are convinced that there is right and there is wrong and that right must, and ultimately will, triumph, that we cry out, as Moses did: "Why, my God, have you done evil to Your people?!"
He rejected that the Holocaust was a punishment for the sins of that generation saying:
The destruction of six million Jews in such a horrific manner that surpassed the cruelty of all previous generations, could not possibly be because of a punishment for sins. Even the Satan himself could not possibly find a sufficient number of sins that would warrant such genocide! There is absolutely no rationalistic explanation for the Holocaust except for the fact that it was a Divine decree … why it happened is above human comprehension – but it is definitely not because of punishment for sin. On the contrary: All those who were murdered in the Holocaust are called “Kedoshim” – holy ones – since they were murdered in sanctification of G–d’s name....It is inconceivable that the Holocaust be regarded as an example of punishment for sin, in particular when addressing this generation, which as mentioned before is “a firebrand plucked from the fire” of the Holocaust.
Meileh not going to someones Simcha is understandable. but not going to a Levaya? Like Cmon.
Chazon Ish? 1972? Um...Hirshel?
Um, Hirshel, what?
read what I wrote. I didn't say that's when the CI asked him to use a generator.
Hmmm, sounds like a brand new concept. one clan finding all the right reasons to bolster their own fundamentalistic views on the cheshbon of the rival clans tradgedy
... untill tradgedy hits them...
then...they still find ways to capult it on the wicked 'other'.
Catch 22
Rav Wosner the proclaimed "Posek Hador"is very fond of pointing fingers on every tragedy that befell Klal yisroel. He is always up front and center with a reason.
I think that women driving cars causes cancer according to him
Like whatever,
I saw a pamphlet lately by Bigeleisen that is refuting the view of Rav Geldzehler that our gena ration is not capable of interpreting the cause of such a massive churban of the Shoah. The writer is fighting for Rav Avigdor Millers teachings on the shoah with all the detailed sins.It is impossible to even to have a dialog with people that have such narrow views on Jewish Life
grainom said...
a survivor told me, that the people who dont know why ww2 happened were out of shul by the tochacha... vda"l
Sunday, October 10, 2010 8:40:00 PM
Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...
Grainom
I guess that's why he thinks he survived, eh?
and also, Reb Elchonon Wasserman and the Piasecner Rebbe and the Karliner rebbe and the Bobover Rebbe and the Telsher Rov and Reisher Rov etc. etc. etc. were also out of shul, I guess...
read what i wrote... dont be motzi laz on kedoshei elyin, tzadik nitfas b'avoin hador. r avigdor miller said when he came to slabodka, there was one bus of mechalelei shabbos every week, in 1939 when he left a dozen...
there is a new sefer with hashmatos from the koznitzer maggid, report anyone?
Grainom is probably refering to the following:
ve'omar hador hoacharon b'neihem asher yokumu meiachareihem v'hanochri asher yovoi meyeretz rechoiko, etc.
If someone has a different version of the Torah, I would like a copy.
How many buses were there with "freie" yidn in New York ,Chicago, and L.a. running on shabbes? Yet they survived the war quite well. enough said?
Grainom
why exactly did Reb Elchonan die? he did even his share of the mitzvas tochoche,so he is not responsible for the 5 million frie jews..
Give me your clear cut answer
This is why snags will never win over the mainstream jew, even with their kiruv rechokim - this bile is so distasteful, even if a rumor. The fact that it wouldnt be THAT surprising to anyone if Wosner or R Chaim actually said some of this stuff is enough said....
Why are people saying that reb chaim did not say it? their is a cetain Rosh with a name that heard the statement from the Marans Mouth
Anonymous of 11:15 am :
Please don't write that there were 5 million "freie" Jews. Talk to any survivor and you will know that this is a nonsensical figure. Don't throw around numbers if you don't have the facts. Poland and White Russia and Lithuania and Hungary and Rumania were filled with erliche Yidn who died as Kedoshim and Tehorim at the hands of the Germans YM"s.Have a little yissev hadaas before you write.
Did anyone expect anything but a PC comment, about the Shoah, from the Lubavitcher Rebbe? No surprises there - not like a box of chocolate.
Chabad has a cognitive dissonance from cause and effect because they have to ignore the LR's role in the creation, enforcement, encouragment and dissemination of Meshichism, Boreynuism, and RCUism (Rebbe Center of Universe)which is widespread amongst those who practice - the current permuation - of Chabdism.
Chabad engages in decietful practices. When they move into a mainstream community (presumaply for kiruv purposes) they disguise many of the questionable Chabad practices. For example: they will eat shalesheedus. They will also pretend to quote from non-Chabad Rabbis - even though they are really only saying over things that the LR said.
Additionaly, they make a lot of noise (even though there may not be many of them in one spot; like the Reich's marches when it conquered the Oberland)and their presence has the tendency to attract many (even non-Chabad) undersirables. To put it simply, when Chabad moves into a nice community, it has the effect of significantly decreasing the value of all the real estate within hearing distance. Therefore, they cause a hephsed merubah to many yiddishe kinder. This practice must stop! We have not problem with Chabadpeople stopping by our shuls in Flatbush, as they make the trek to Kan Tzipor. We have no problem with that, we will occassionaly allow them to speak in our shul (spread the message) whith no restrictions - unless on the "M" word. But please, don't put up a shul that is comprised of only several Chabad people, which causes us financial harm. The Shluchim should stick to places like Vegas and Amsterdam.
Yesh leho'ir, that when moshiach comes bimheiro beyoeinu, there will probably be only one bais hamikdosh, where we will all have to daven together in on the sholosh regolim. (though davening with be much more action, and much less talk (about mipnei chatoeinu, pesukei musofin, etc)).
Anon
"it has the effect of significantly decreasing the value of all the real estate within hearing distance. Therefore, they cause a hephsed merubah to many yiddishe kinder."
did the Lubavich shul on 16th ave decrease the Real estate value on the area? Aderaba get me a broker for a cheap house in that vicinity.
when is the next meeting held to stop CHABAD NOW ? I would like to participate in that important meeting,
is the dress code Skin heads with ski masks on the face ?
are you burning crosses too????
Anon,
"Chabad engages in decietful practices...
I am amazed that you are that shrewd, not to fall prey to the proffesional PR of borienikes, meschisten etc..
Boruch Shecolek Maichochmose leYariev can be said on you with the Shem Vomalchus..
Anon
"We have not problem with Chabadpeople stopping by our shuls in Flatbush"
are you the offical spokesperson of Flatbush, I met too many people that are very happy that the Lubabs are inducing some simcha on their faces, you represent only a small circle in your hate filled cave,
Btw,does the Rebbe preach a new vision on Moshiach,Borei? please give us a synopsis of the uniqueness of his views on these matters,as the Rebbe said for a other apikores, I hope eventually you will use your talent of ranting, for Hashem Vetorosai
anon 1:28
Where does Rav Gelzhaler write about the holocaust?
Are u refering to Rav Yehoshua Gelzhaler?
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