Wednesday, October 20, 2010

Parshanut [my thoughts on the story]

at a levaya, 5751

Many of you have doubts about the veracity of the story I posted. Others say it was true but heavily embellished. A third group says it doesn't matter if it's true or not, their opinion of the Rebbe will NOT change. I realize you think I'm think I'm some kind of "propagandist/PR man" for Lubavitch. Not that I know why; it's not like I talk about Lubavitch all day, nor do I attack Lubavitch's adversaries non-stop. But don't let the facts get in the way of your decisions. Despite that, the point of the story was not to make you Lubavitchers. I realize that won't happen, nor do I want it to happen. With some of you, joining Lubavitch would be a disaster for me, so I'd rather you stay put, wherever you are. All I wanted to do was to give you a small window into what we "see" in the Rebbe, which many of you fail to understand, whether willingly or unwwillingly. This story is a prime example of what we see. It's an example of the selflessness of the Rebbe and of his life's mission, no matter who the person was and no matter how nasty he was all his life to frum Jews, including Lubavitch. Oongeshtopte fressers like some of you here see "Shooneh Uperish'nikkes being honored," We see the Rebbe saving neshomos, and literally shlepping them out of the She'ol Tachtis.

There were two ways to approach this man - Natan Yellin-Mor (Friedman) and his ideas. 1) ignore him or yell at him, which is what he expected to happen, presumably because that's what had happened to him in the past. 2) Realize that he's influential, and try and influence him so that we can influence others through him. The former is short-sighted; and despite the fact that we THINK that we're standing up for Kvod Shomayim, most of the time we're just defending our own honor. He disagrees with us, and with our way of life, so we dislike him and run him out of town. A wee bit of thought on the part of any man with half a brain will make you come to the conclusion that the latter is the correct way to deal with it. You might even say that the approach here was a two-pronged one; influence him and ratteve a Jewish soul, a soul (and eyes) that saw Reb Shimon and many of the greatest Torah minds of that era, (remember, he was from Grodno...) And try and bring many people back with him by realizing that he might share his new way of life with his readers, just as he would do when he loathed Torah and Yiddishkeit. The same way that people like Uri Zohar and Amnon Yitzhak and others are considered success stories; since they had a large following in their previous life and are influential ad haYom haZeh.

With the chossid Reb Ber'ke Chein, o"H

Then there's how these stories help us stay close, even after 16 years. And like we all know, Hiskashrus and Dveykus in Tzaddikim is crucial. It helps keeps us on the "up and up." It makes us feel warm all over. It brings us close to Hashem. It teaches us and our kids about G-d's presence on this world, which is why we have Tzaddikim doing wonders in the first place - to help Yidden and to show them Hisgalus Elokus in some form on this world. And it makes us keeps us proud. Which is why Chassidim - and now non-Chassidim as well - tell Sippurei Tzaddikim whenever they congregate. There is one added bonus to my publicizing the story in front of thousands of people: That maybe some of you will stop foaming at the mouth when you see or hear Lubavitch. If I accomplish that in life iz shoyn vert. A note about the article itself: I'm working hard trying to locate the original, which is probably a fascinating piece of reading. Please sit tight. We're calling out all the stops. No stone is being left unturned. You get the drift.


Levy said...

"Oongeshtopte fressers like some of you here "

Why the cheap ad hominem attack??

Make your point without getting nasty

Anonymous said...

from time to time the gloves has to come off and call a spade a spade

Levy said...

Do you run the blog??
I did not think so...

I think Tzig, who runs the blog, can speak for himself

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

those who insult need to be spoken to harshly sometimes, don't you think?

Anonymous said...

I am not well informed of the history of Chaim Grade, the CI kept up a friendship with him for years, I think he was his landsman,
was he shomer shabos? was he original a Yeshiva Bochur? did he write opinions or novels?
did the CI have a positive effect on him?
is their a snag in house that knows anything, besides cursing the Manhig Yisroel Ukedoshoi Zy"a????

Anonymous said...

I am not runing the show, Yesh Baal haBayis leBiro Zu, he his the Tzig of Nevel

Levy said...

"those who insult need to be spoken to harshly sometimes, don't you think?"

No, because the same generalization you give about them canbe said about some of your guys.
Besides, the tone of your posts is set up to to get people to comment sharply

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I realize we have plenty of oongeshtopte fressers as well. Probably more. That's not the point. I'm not trying to generalize. I'm responding to those who make disparaging comments about the Rebbe for no reason.

למאי נפק"מ said...

even after 16 years

שוין העכסט צייט צו אויפנעמען א נייע רבי'ן, א מנהיג.
איי, קיינער קען זיך ניט פארגלייכן אינם נשיא הדור דער רבי זצ"ל? ווער קען היינט טראגן די טיטל?
דאס איז קיין ענטפער. כלל ישראל איז שטענדיג געוועזן אנגעוויזן אין א לעבעדיגן גשמיות'דיגער מנהיג.
דור דור ודורשיו וכו'

יא! די הוראות פונ'ם רבין זצ"ל זענען חי וקים און די שיחות ענטפערן שאלות, אלעס פיין און וואויל, אבער די נסיונות פון היינט זיינען ניט די זעלבע ווי פארגאנגענע יאהרן. די נסיונות ברוחניות ובגשמיות ווערן וואס א טאג שווערער און אהן א מורה דרך שטייט מען אין א שטענדיגע סכנה מחמת פגעי הזמן. וד"ל

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...


איך מעג פרעגן? איר זענט א ליובאוויטשער חסיד

Anonymous said...

not lapine nemotinwho took care of the rebbe's father kever the levaya was in elul tav shin nun alef right before the riots

Anonymous said...

you can not pick a Rebbe because you need someone to solve all problems, and I agree their are problems, but a Rebbe is not a manager,CEO,Rosh Hkahal, Good fund Raiser,Mitzva Tantz performer, he is a Neshoma Kelolis has no personal retzoinois, he is humbled botel to the dvar hashem and noting else, it is a holy concept in Emuna of chasidim
The Rebbe said that chabad needs to listen to Rabonim, it has to be enforced with all powers

dovy in jersey said...

tzig, you said in your observations that it is better to talk nicely to an apikorus like this writer. yet you think that you should talk sharply to those who insult the rebbe ungeshtupte fressers? sounds like hypocrisy to me.

snag said...

"Which is why Chassidim - and now non-Chassidim as well - tell Sippurei Tzaddikim whenever they congregate."

The inyan of sippurei tzaddikim is not a Chassidishe chidush. The תורה הקדושה itself has sippurei tzaddikim. What are the stories of the אבות הקדושים? The stories in the gemara?

But there still is a difference לענ"ד in this between Hassidim and Misnagdim, even if both tell stories at times. The misnagdim recognize that one should be careful not to get carried away with the stories, they are not necessarily the same as Tayreh. Others however, sometimes get carried away with the story telling, in more ways than one. מען דארף זיך היטען פון ביטול תורה ח"ו

Anonymous said...

"It makes us feel warm all over."


Buddy, this "story" demonstrates political savvyness - not Gadlus.

Anonymous said...

The guy with the T-shirt was right. Dr. King, based on philosophy, would have responded exactly like the Rebbe did. Read this

Twistelton-Twistelton said...

As one who has cast doubt on the story (quite politely), allow me to tell you what a snag sees in the (telling of this) story. The story itself is frankly unbelievable. A seventy year long time apikurious totally changes as a result of a three minute encounter with the Rebbe. During which no inyanie hadass were discussed. And kept it to himself, until after his death. Yes, the story does show the Rebbes wisdom, kindness, understanding and cleverness. But in any other Chassidus it would end “and after that XXXX never spoke as harshly or negatively about Yiddishkiet”. But not in Chabad. There the Rebbe has to be not merely a Gadol, or even the Gadol hador etc, but superhuman etc.

On a different note, what does it take to get Schneur to come back. A collective apology/appreciation. If so, here I am.

Anonymous said...

sorry for telling a wannabbe Snag like you to learn Tanya, but if you really would like to get of your box you will check out Perek 32 (lev as chasidim call it) you will see how he explains the differebnt methods of Tochchoe between a frum jew and a chiloni.

Anonymous said...

are all the stories that misnagdim say, produced on Tisha Beov? I would not dare to say Nittel Nacht since they diminished that minhag yisroel,

Anonymous said...

even for twitelton this is a major twist from the fact, just to deliver a hate message

DOVY said...

I want to apologize for being a bit nasty sometimes.
I think we need to dialogue more
With all due respect ,I don't think the points I made were wrong and I don't agree with Lubavitch theology anymore than when I made my points.
What I saw was the way Twistelton made his points andI have to say that I basically agree with him, BUTHE MAKES HIS POINT WITH MUCH MORE RESPECT

Anonymous said...

If a Lubab's hat is not smashed, does that mean he doesn't chant his Rambam daily?

Food for thought

Anonymous said...

it is too a deep tought , can you clarify it plz? I beg you

Anon3 said...

"If a Lubab's hat is not smashed, does that mean he doesn't chant his Rambam daily?

Food for thought"

If a snags hat is not perched on the back of his head with the brim up does that mean that he doesn't think that he's going to be a "Godol" some day?
Food for thought

Anonymous said...

Lubabs walk funny too

Anonymous said...

how do lubabs eat?
food for tought

Anonymous said...

The picture is of R' Mendel Futerfas.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

anon 8:01

please don't show everybody your Amiratzus in Chabad history

it's Berke Chein and his son Mottel.

LikeWhatever said...

Twistelton, Berg, Brooklyn ave, Apart etc Tzigeleh Melkers!

"I'm no longer on this Earth, I am now in the shiva medurei gehennom"

This is a tale of life long farbisiner yiddle who posthumously does a dramatic shtickle and sheds doubt on his life long views and convictions.

From a literary perspective its pure genius and a class act forsure!

Who cares if this story happened or not? Its the 'truest' tale we've seen here in ages!

It carries a profound message of repentance, acceptance, and hope!

LikeC'mon. You gotta love the beauty of this tale.

Charsiner Genizeh Forgeries!?
Lubavich Conspiracy theories?!
Who the Hell cares?

Nebach. When will you holy jews stop melking the Tzig n' start enjoying a bit of life?

"A vareme grus fun gehenom."

Twistelton-Twistelton said...

"LikeC'mon. You gotta love the beauty of this tale"

Actually, I DID enjoy the Rebbes dialogue with him. I just don’t believe the ending in true.

Joe in Australia said...

TT, think of it this way. He had a profoundly moving encounter with the Rebbe. Who can say what was actually going on in his head, but he evidently wasn't ready to change the habits of a lifetime or have his friends think he had succumbed to senility. None the less,he had a deeply emotional desire to return. So he compromised. He wrote a letter to be released after his death, a letter that would be read in one way by his friends and another way by Lubavitchers. His friends would see it as a sardonic joke, a fulsome bit of Rebbe-fiction that could only be swallowed by those terribly literal and naive Chassidim. The Chassidim would read it - literally and naively - as evidence of deathbed teshuva. Everyone would be happy, particularly the author - he had gotten something off his chest, he had repaid the Rebbe's favor, and he had retained the good opinion of his friends.

Daniel said...

Joe In Australia,
Twisty,I believe, gets the "brilliance" of Yelin-Mor's final move.What he is challenging is the veracity.
Sounds to much like the famous Agatha Christie book "Ten Little Niggers" (That was the original title in England.In America it was publishes as "then there were none")
It has a brilliant-from-the-grave-twist
This is the nursery rhyme the book is built around
"Ten little Soldier boys went out to dine;
One choked his little self and then there were nine.

Nine little Soldier boys sat up very late;
One overslept himself and then there were eight.

Eight little Soldier boys traveling in Devon;
One said he'd stay there and then there were seven.

Seven little Soldier boys chopping up sticks;
One chopped himself in halves and then there were six.

Six little Soldier boys playing with a hive;
A bumblebee stung one and then there were five.

Five little Soldier boys going in for law;
One got in Chancery and then there were four.

Four little Soldier boys going out to sea;
A red herring swallowed one and then there were three.

Three little Soldier boys walking in the zoo;
A big bear hugged one and then there were two.

Two Little Soldier boys sitting in the sun;
One got frizzled up and then there was one.[7]

One little Soldier boy left all alone;
He went out and hanged himself and then there were none."

The final twist with the letter from the grave sounds a bit too good to be true.Of course it may be true.Maybe Yelin Mor left children who could verify it.

sholom said...

i think this picture was taken during the Rebetzin's A"H levaya in 5748. correct me please if i'm wrong.

למאי נפק"מ said...

למאי נפק"מ?

(המגיד מראשית אחרית)