Sunday, February 10, 2008

How a snag sees a Kiddush Hashem ---

--- (by a Lubavitcher.)

He sees it as a his fault that he needed to stand up for Torah and Kedushah. If only he'd cut the Lubavitch nonsense he'd never had such problems in the first place... It seems like the event happened at a public Menorah lighting, and that, I guess, is total nonsense according to them, it never accomplished anything, and is just there to make Jews feel good about themselves. Additionally, it adds in Anti-Semitism, as we see Goyim gnashing their teeth whenever they see a Public Menorah. Their methods are rock-solid and a mere one hour "seminar" can and does make "thousands and thousands" of complete Baalei Tshuvah, not just jelly doughnut fressers.... Of course, if the snag would have the problem while running a Mosad, then he'd find his way around the problem, if you get my drift.

According to VIN There was a story in Canada's National Post about a Lubavitcher Shliach in Canada - Reb Mendel Kaplan - who at a meeting with a local female politician refused to shake her hand, citing Jewish law that forbids contact with members of the opposite gender. This Kaplan fellow is a Talmid Chochom Otzum with a razor sharp mind who's highly successful as a shliach, even amongst intellectuals - a very tough class. She was livid, and let everybody how she felt so degraded, and all about how "gender separation" is so terrible, and how she never felt so degraded in her whole, entire life - blah, blah, blah. The snag too - in a comment in VIN - blames the Lubavitcher and his movement for placing him in such a predicament; had they not been busy with "Shtusim" and just followed the Shulchan Aruch (I'm not sure what he's referring to) none of this would've happened. So, instead of marveling at his strength of character we blame him.....

עולם הפוך ראיתי

24 comments:

Josh said...

it seems to me like the stringency of not shaking a woman's hand should be suspended במקום חילול ה and thus this rabbi has some repenting to do. the fact that he paints it as if SHE did something wrong by expecting common courtesy-- the ethnic food comparison especially-- smacks of identity politics more than either logic or halakha. במקום חילול ה אין חלקין כבוד לרב and not even to a shaliach!

re the anonymous litvak: i dont see why this means that he isnt following shulchan arukh by living somewhere where he will have to shake a women's hand. that is indeed a backwards logic!

Dovid said...

Tzig
Nice 'strawman' technique,an anonymous poster who could be anyone,anything and you blow him up to 'show how evil the 'snags' are
But wait, maybe the poster represents his own rear end, maybe he is even a bored Lubab?

I guess try as hard as you want you can't come up with any original material so you have to copy Moishe Weiss's comment from Cross-Current or make up some nonsense like this.
Nice.Keep it up

Anonymous said...

And straw baboons with names like ' Dovid' are much better !!
Right.

chnyock said...

if he was so smart and so intelectual couldn't he explain to her that a man is gvura a woman is chesed blah blah blah and make her feel soo good for not shaking her hand?

Leyb Eger said...

Mendel Kaplan has something none of his critics can likely appreciate. The man is a boki in the Shulchon Oruch and poskim, and can discuss, at the drop of a hat, any major contemporary halachic issue, including all the major opinions and their reasoning. For idiots who's lack of knowledge of halocho is second only to their lack of yiras shomayim, try and learn some Shulchon Oruch BEFORE paskening stupidity.

Anonymous said...

SO FULL OF HATE, SO CONDESCENDING, SO CHABAD.

berl, crown heights said...

I dunno... Rabbi Mendel Kaplan is a talmid chochom un a chasidisher but did any of you actually SEE a pic of this Brenda Hog(g) in that NP article? Surely an exception could have been made in her case! :)

Twistelton-Twistelton said...

What do you want, her name is truth in advertising. As Chazal say "keshmo ken ho'

Camp Runamok said...

Folks, we need to see this story in the context it deserves. This was not an issue of Chillul HaShem, of needlessly being "out there" in the Alma DeShakra or what-have-you. It was certainly not about what Rabbi Kaplan (or the imam from the Islamic Center, for that matter) should or should not have done in this circumstance. This Brenda character was doing what politicians always do; exploit an opportunity to grandstand. In this case she used her (far overstated, IMHO) feelings of "rejection" to advocate her victicrat status as a woman subjugated by religious extremism. Ironically the sensitivities of the religious practicioners involved are of no concern to our vaunted Deputy Mayor person. Her attitude seems to be "my victimized, protected-class status is bigger and better than yours, you 13th century neanderthals!"

In a (small-"l") liberal society like modern Canada I think she has just committed a serious CLM (career limiting move).

Mottel said...

On an interesting note -students from the early years of Jewish schooling for girls (and I mean daughters of prominent chassidim from the previous dor -or more) have told me that they were taught to shake hands to avoid embarrassing someone . . .

In any event though, I agree with camp runamok -this is all a bunch of political hoopla.

Joe in Australia said...

it seems to me like the stringency of not shaking a woman's hand should be suspended במקום חילול ה ...

Is it a stringency or is it actual Halacha? Furthermore, a Jew who politely refuses to compromise his beliefs is not committing a חילול ה, quite the opposite.

I've read her claims and the responses, and I think the rabbi came off well. She sounds shrill and as if she's trying to play the victim card. I presume that a mayor is an experienced politician, but I have no idea what she is trying to accomplish. I expect most people who read her article will have sympathy for the rabbi, and not for her.

chnyock said...

finally some stood up for principals.
assur IS assur. done.

Josh said...

it is a stringency that is suspended במקום חילול ד not a הלכה although some posekim (eg ר מנשה קליין ) would say it is abizrayhu dearayot and יהרג ואל יעבור that is not usually accepted. And remember that the special status of יוא"י is DERIVED from ונקדשתי according to רמב"ם.

I think that even according to those who say it is יהרג ואל יעבור this rabbi made the wrong choice. And so he is responsible for that worst of sins, חילול השם לא עלינו.

Anonymous said...

I think that even according to those who say it is יהרג ואל יעבור this rabbi made the wrong choice. And so he is responsible for that worst of sins, חילול השם לא עלינו.

typical Mod Orth Megaleh Ponim baTorah SheLoh KeHalochoh

Josh said...

why is that שלא כהלכה? I am saying that even for the abizrayhu crowd there is an acculturative principle/ מנהג המקום that comes into play. And that has the power to change what is and isnt abizrayhu.
EG would the רמבם support Bruriah Keren as yehareg veal yaavor-- I dont think so because he specifies that רדיד is talui במנהג המקום
Some would be hesitant to apply this to נישוק although you could make that case. But just touching them?? Are you crazy??

Josh said...

btw i don't think in this case the rabbi is necessarily liable for הילול ד since he was prevented from shaking hands ע"י מה שאנו אוסרים לו or what he thought was אסור. But in a similar future case having read this blog it might be חילול ד במזיד just for the sake of being culturally חרדי which is i think a worse reason to sin than a mumar le'teavon.

Joe in Australia said...

Josh, I'm totally unable to follow your reasoning. You leave me behind when you say things like "even according to those who say it is יהרג ואל יעבור this rabbi made the wrong choice". Are you sure you understand what you think you are saying? Anything that is יהרג ואל יעבור
may not be committed under any circumstances, ever. So how could he have made the wrong choice?

Josh said...

יהרג ואל יעבר for abizrayhu of עריות would be very sensitive to the definition of עריות in a given society.

Anonymous said...

"acculturative principle/ מנהג המקום " [Josh]

What unadulterated diocy and ignorance. It is for ame haaretz like you that Rabeinu Tam notes this distortion of halachah by saying that "minhag" is the same letters as "gehenom".
For anyone claiming that this was a chilul Hashem R"L, they haven't got a clue of the halachot of what comprises chilul Hashem and kidush Hashem. Standing up for your principles and defending them publicly, is the height of kidush Hashem and ge'on Yaakov! Shame on you who are embarrassed by "mah yomru hagoyim"! Neither President Bush nor his wife, nor the queen of England, felt slighted by the refusal of Chabad rabbis/ rebbetzens shaking hands with opposite gender and appreciated their valuing their own traditions. If there is chilul Hashem it is "apologists" for their own unease as opposed to the defenders of halachah.

Josh said...

I dont see why you dont think מציות ומנהג have any other role other than getting people to גהנם. In america we shake hands and that is that. So you are an ass not to do so!

Camp Runamok said...

As a follow-on to my prediction above, it appears that the Deputy Mayor is currently reaping the whirlwind, so to speak. Impressively, some of her own colleagues on the City Council are chiding her for insensitivity and intolerance. Her attitude seems to still be one of "how dare you school ME in proper conduct!?"

"Councillor Greg Beros said Ms Hogg should offer an apology. “I do the research before I go to events. I know the cultural sensitivities,” he said. “We have the technology to research and understand each other.”

Mayor Dave Barrow agreed that conducting research, either on the Internet or talking to the host prior to a cultural or religious event, is important, especially if you are not familiar with certain customs.

Although Ms Hogg says she was unaware of the practice, Mr. Beros says it’s no excuse and a public apology is in order. “That’s unfortunate that he is so quick to make demands. That’s all I have to say,” Ms. Hogg said."

The only "chillul hashem" here, if it can even be called that, is the tin ear and obtuseness of Ms. Hogg. This is going to hurt her the most.

chchick said...

This whole issue might have been avoided had Rabbi Kaplan employed the line that the Rebbe was reported to have used in this same situation. "My mother taught me never to touch what isn't mine."

peyshe der baal agoleh said...

The definition of a Chillul haShem is when the name of Hashem is desecrated due to the actions or situation of those that profess to believe in Him. This includes things which are done by those 'representatives of the faith' which cause Judaism to be viewed in a negative light locally and in the eyes of the general public world over. This is true whether the matter in question was an 'internal Chillul haShem' i.e. a respected person of particular religious stature, or a group of religious Jews, or an 'external Chillul haShem' i.e. any action done by any Jew or Jewish entity as viewed by others not of the faith.

The general and original source for the Mitzvah (it is both a Mitzvas Aseh and a Mitzvas Lo Sa'ase) is found in Shemos (22:32) וְלֹא תְחַלְּלוּ, אֶת-שֵׁם קָדְשִׁי, וְנִקְדַּשְׁתִּי, בְּתוֹךְ בְּנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל: אֲנִי ה', מְקַדִּשְׁכֶם - And you shall not profane My holy name; but I will be hallowed among the children of Israel: I am the Lord who hallows you. The commandment is then echoed in Vayikrah three different times in three different context. Avodah Zarah (18:21), flalse oaths in court (19:12), and Korbanos (23:1). Chillul haSem is found many times throughout the rest of Nach, namely in Yechezkiel.

The Rambam (Deyos 6:13) defines Chillul haShem as any transression done contemptuously with the intention to anger. If the action is done in front of ten or more it is a Chillul haShem b'Rabim.

The Chinuch (295) writes that when a person well known because of their Gemilas Chassdim and Maasim Tovim does something which seems to the masses like a transgression, or something which is nor fitting for a person of such stature to do, although the action itself is permitted, it is a Chillul haShem.

Of course at any time when one would be required to sacrifice their life for the sake of Hashem and does not do so they is the greatest form of Chillul haShem.

See also Rambam's Sefer haMitzvos 63, and Mishneh Torah, Yesodie haTorah 5. SA YD 157. Yoma 86a.

In light of the above, Rabbi Kaplans adherence to Torah law despite societal pressure is not only not a Chillul Hashem but on the contrary is a Kiddush Hashem. G-d's Name was sanctified because His Will was done. Not the will of a B'asar V'dom who refuses to recognize and respect a code of ethics and morals higher than herself, not subject to change with the whims [and/or progression] of society, nor with the norms and mores of time and place.

אשרי חלקו

Anonymous said...

Twistleton-Twistleton:

From your "name", it seems you must be a Wodehouse fan. Correct?