Monday, August 17, 2009

Music - Real Music - you can listen to!




I'm not Chaim Rubin, nor am I Jewish Music Review, Jewish Music Report, Shlager, or whatever the music review sites are called, but I do like neginah. Real neginah, that is. Not synthesized Yamaha music with Jewish words added to them. Nor do I care for Broadway tunes gone Jewish. You all knew that, right? After all, it's in my profile. But I am "crazy" for Nigunei Chabad, in any form really, but when they're arranged using beautiful AUTHENTIC music then it's pure pleasure. Zalman G did a nice choosing songs; some very famous, some tier 2 as far as famous goes, and some pretty obscure, like the "Ech Di Doo Da" on track 11. Getting Chilik Frank, number two Clarinetist after Andy Statman, (in my very humble unprofessional opinion) also adds a very professional dimension to the CD, and tells us how serious ZG is about producing good music. In these days of garbage (excuse my French) music performed by less than stellar characters, ZG's latest production is a beacon of light in these dark times of music. We all wish luck and success.

Buy it here

Gershovsky could've worn a kippa when playing these holy nigunim...I'm not sure why nobody thought of telling him...

86 comments:

מענדל said...

הירשעלע
מיר איז געפעלן אז ער האט געשלעפט דעם קלארינעטיסט אפ'ן אהל.
דא"ג קוקנדיק אויף דיין פראפיל זע איך אז דו האסט ליב קארלינער ניגונים. עס איז דא א ניגון וואס אין וויזשניץ זינגט מען אויף רברבין עובדיך אין קה ריבון (עכ"פ אזוי האט מען מיר געזאגט).
אין קארלין זינגט מען עם אויך (מיין פרוי תחי' זאגט מיר אז איר קארלינער זיידע ע"ה וואלט זינגען דאס אויף מה ידידות). והעיקר דאס איז א עכטע ליובאוויטשער ניגון. אין וויזשניץ קומט עס פון ווען איינער פון זייער רבי'ס (כמדומני ר' חיים מאיר) האט באזוכט דעם רבי רש"ב. קארלין איז דאך א ליטווישע חסידות איז מסתמא האט איינער גענומען פון צווייטן. אינטרעסאנט איז אז דער הויכער טייל פון ניגון (די געדיכטע פון ניגון) זינגט מען נאר אין ליובאוויטש. דא איז א לינק פון היכל מנחם צו דעם ניגון http://www.chassidus.com/audio/nigun/13-03-Niggun-L-Shabbos-V-Yom-Tov-Heichal-
Neginah.ram
פון 5:00 קען מען הערן ווי דער רבי זינגט דעם ניגון און עס איז צו אויסגיין פון דעם מתיקות.

מענדל
.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

יישר כחכם ר' מענדל
אבער די לינק איז ניט קיין גוטע

מענדל said...

http://www.chassidus.com/audio/nigun/
גיי אראפ אביסל מער ווי העלפט דעם בלאט, אין ניגוני שבת ויו"ט איז דאס דער דריטער ניגון (נאך אם אסק שמים)
מענדל

Anonymous said...

sorry for my ignorance, who is Cillik Frank

Anonymous said...

Mendel
Reb Chaim Mayer took alot of his nigunim fom other courts,he had Vorker Nigunim from the Erenster shiduch with the BP Amshinover, the Hamevaser had lately nice articles about it, but I think he was never by the Rebbe Reshab

seen it all said...

Since this week you're koching in satmar, did u ever hear the satmar mimkoimach? It is almost a perfect Rebbe's maamor niggun, but the SR changed one note when he said "L'oilom vo'ed tishkoin".

Anonymous said...

hilik frank is a bresloer hasid,nephew of breslover mahig R YUDA LIEV FRANK and grandson of the rav of Jerusalem, r hersh pesach frank.

Anonymous said...

on behalf of all the above sites named, THANK YOU.

Anonymous said...

Reb Hersh Pesach shtamt from a Breslover Family? or one of his son tuned Breslov?
Seen it..
wasnt all Satmar nigunim prewar from Plonch the first FIL?
or some Berish?
after the war nigunim are basicaly tasteless, I think the are all from the Werczberger family? they all have one flavor

Anonymous said...

In Mishpacha Mag for Lag Bomer it said that Chilik Frank spent last Lag Bomer in prison for carrying illegal substances. Whatsupwithat?

מענדל said...

anon 2:05
לפי די ידיעות וואס איך האב איז ר' חיים מאיר אלץ א יונגערמאן ארום געפארן צו אסאך רבי'ס, איינע פון די פלעצער וואס ער האט באזוכט איז געווען ליובאוויטש. כמדומני אז ער איז אן איידים ביי ראכמיסטריווקע און די רביים האבן געהאט א ווארעמע קשר מי ראכמיסטריווקע במילא לייגט זיך אז דאס האט געקענט זיין. מ' דארף פרעגן ביי די וויזשניצער חסידים זיי וואלטן וויסן בעסער. דא"ג וואלפא אין זיין שמן ששון טענה'ט אויכעט אזוי אבער דאס איז ביי מיר א שוואכע ראי'
מענדל

feivel said...

"after the war nigunim are basicaly tasteless, I think the are all from the Werczberger family? they all have one flavor"

My friend
"Tasteless" is in the "ear" of the beholder.
I don't particularly like Lubavitcher niggunim but many do for example.
Yankaleh Talmuds "marshes" are gevaldigeh masterpieces in my opinion, but cannot cause the "hisorerus" of some of the old, soulful Litvishe niggunim again just my opinion.

Anonymous said...

"Holy niggunim"
What do you mean?

Anonymous said...

Mendel,
I heard from a Viznitzer chosid for generations, his great grandpa eat Melya Bread by the Kosover, that Reb Chaim Meir met a lubavicher chosid and he was shocked that the guy never heard of his father the Ahavas Yisroel, he had a letdown, and said that he doesn't want to know people that never heard of his father, its not the exact wording but its in that spirit, so I don't believe he was in Lubavich

Anonymous said...

Feivel
99% of these nigunim didn't become nachlas haklal, its for a reason,
maybe your eardrums are created different.

Anonymous said...

Anon,
Its Chodesh Elul and please go ask forgiveness from a nice boy that is not a macher or some Rebbe with flamboyant clothing.

FEIVEL said...

Anon
What niggunim did not bacome nachlas haklal?
Yankale Talmuds?
Wercbergers Satmar?
Nachlas haklal does not prove to much.
Arba Bovos, one of the greatest Materpieces in Lubavitch is not sung very much outside of Chabad.
Carlebach on the other hand is the author of the most widely sung songs in the Jewish world.
Obviously Carlebach was a great composer but I don't feel the hisorerus.Could be my ear drums are off

LkwdGuy said...

Wow, I learn new things each day on Circus Tent. A few days ago I learned about a new ikkur, then about hiskashrus to the dead and now I hear about kedusha in a niggun. How is the kedusha chal? Is it a kedushas haguf? Is it shayuch haspashtus on such a kedusha? If only part of a niggun is holy would we then say that pashta kedusha b'kula? And most importantly, can one become mekushar to a niggun? Someone help me out on this one.

Mottel said...

-LkwdGuy: Last I checked neginah was a cheilik of the avodah in the beis hamikdash . . .

seen it all said...

Seen it..
wasnt all Satmar nigunim prewar from Plonch the first FIL?
or some Berish?

I'm not a boki in Satmar nigunim and I defer to greater minds on this. I heard (totally unverified) that this niggun of memkoimoch started in the USA, the SR heard it from a lubab and adapted it to kedusha. I also heard (maybe some older satmar can verify this) that he only sung it on yomtov and shabbos mevorchims.

Bichlal, I don't get the one-up-manship on niggunim. Who cares who found it first. The most popular hungarian niggun, tzola kokosh, was from a goyishe shepherd. The Rebbe's Shamils niggun is from a russian chechnyan milita leader who today would be part of al queda. Great tzaddikim have the ability to fnd the kedusa in a niggun and use it for avoidas hashem. If the source is Jewish, we can all use it, and the more the merrier.

LkwdGuy, niggun is a very powerful emotion. Lehavdil, look at the reaction of people to gepaigerte mj, and before him ep. A known molester, sicko, with a disgusting personal life but bec of his talent to connect to people with music they overlook everything and go crazy for him. The FR said music is the pen of the soul. It expresses our deepest feelings and it can be the crying of the innermost soul that machshava and logic can never reach to. This is why goyishe music is so terrible even if it not kol isha.
There's alot more to say on this, check out http://www.chassidus.com/audio/nigun/

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

seen it all:

that line - the SR heard it from a lubab and adapted it to kedusha. - you must be very proud of your גבאונות, no?

Idyut.

Anonymous said...

Werczbergers satmar nigunim is not nachlas haklal and not even nachlas satmar it is sung for Mechalkel Chaim and hakofas for the year that it was created and then dumped like a snow man.
Arba boves, is sung lateley by Aronim Satmar, Yisroel Hager viznits, Tzvi Meir siberberg, Tosh, etc.. its not sung thank god by every Chassuna, but its the niggun of climax by most chassidim

Anonymous said...

Mottel,
right you are, its even in the sefer hayad, and the Even Hozal on Kodshim has chidushim on the matter.

Mottel said...

-Seen it All: If you'd look into the history of neginah, shemil l'moshi, you'd understand how niggun of a goy can be raised to kedusha.
If you'd look into world history, you'd know that a Chechniyan is much a Russian, as l'havdil a Litvak is a sefardi.

Anonymous said...

Seen it..
can you specify the niggun that satmar rov was(mechalel)using for mimkomcho.

sorry for the word Mechalel, its said for the sake of Im Ikaeish Tispatol

LkwdGuy said...

seen it all,
If your point is that niggun can have a strong effect on people (both positive and negetive), there is no argument here.

Tzig seems to be suggesting something entirely different, namely, that specific niggunim have kedusha to them as devorim shbikdusha and require kisoy rosh (and persumably guf naki, maybe even tevila if thats your thing)before one can sing or play or maybe even listen to them. That is a chiddush that I first learned today here under the big top.

אבּרבּנאל said...

פֿאַראַן ניגונים און פֿאַראַן ניגונים
פֿאַראַן ניגונים וואָס ברענגט דעם מענטש צו התפּעלות אדער געגועים װי אַ שטייגער ניגונים פֿון קאַליבער צדיק מיט די פֿייגעלעך, בלומעלעך, שעפֿעלעך אא"װ
נאָכדעם איז פֿאַראַן קאָמפאָזיציעס װאָס מאַכן אײַנגענעם דעם גלות קאַלעמוטנעם הערצעלע...אַ שטייגער די מאָדשזיצער אַפּאָרעטער מיט איר געקונצעטע דריידעלעך און לומדישע תנועות

אַ חבדער ניגון איז איגאנצן אַ צװייטער סדרה
אַ חבד ניגון שניידט שטיקער אָן קיין רחמנות ס´פֿאָדערט און צװינגט דעם מענטשן זיך איבערצוקערן איגאַנצן

אַ פױלישער ניגון נעמט אַסאַך פֿעלער ביז עס קומט צום פֿונקט ווי ס´הייבט אָן קראַצן. אַ חבד ניגון אָבער שפּרונגט אַרײַן דורכן פֿענסטער, און גראָד ביים ערשטן טאַקט מאכט עס דיר אַ לעבעדיגער אַפּאָראַציע
בימי חורפי, ביי אַ פֿאַברענג אין ירושלים התחיל זקן א´ לפזם התנועה עסען עסט זיך וכו´ אין מעי המו בקרבי מיינע קישקעס האָבן זיך גענומען דרייען ע"פ פשט ממש און די אַלע אַפּעטיטלעכע פּאָטראַוועס האָבן מיר פשוט גענומען איבּלען..
מה נאמר ר´ ציג..כל השירים קודש ושירי חבד קודש קדשים...כ´קאַן שרייבן און שרייבן..אָבער גיי זיי מסביר בלינדע "שיינעדיקע לעכט" מ´איז פֿאַרטעמפּט און צעחושט ביז איבער די נאָז

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Lkwd

it's a simple matter of hergesh. You'd do the same thing if you had a chefetz from the CC or the CI in your hand. עאכו"כ if it's a niggun that they composed, that they put their etzem haNefesh into it, which is why we're told not to listen to songs composed by non-Jews or irreligious Jews

LkwdGuy said...

עאכו"כ if it's a niggun that they composed, that they put their etzem haNefesh into it, which is why we're told not to listen to songs composed by non-Jews or irreligious Jews

Huh? Were not some of the astute commenters on this very thread discussing which shepherd composed which kodeshdike niggun? Must one be makpid that anyone singing the etzem nefesh of a shepherd keep their head covered? I'm confused again.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

איש ליקווד

אז די צדיק נעמט עס פון דער פאסטאך און איז עס מטהר איז גוט, זייער גוט,
אבער אהן דעם איז עס עדיין בטומאתה
כנלע"ד

Anonymous said...

the Gemorah said that the cane of Reb Mayer had a certain Kedusha because its a chafetz shel tzadik, I saw lately Reb Chaim Kanievsky bringing it as source for a chafetz of a tzadik, Kal vechomer ben benoi shel kal vechoimer that a nigun that gives you the inner feelings of the Tzadik is Kodesh Kodoshim

LkwdGuy said...

Tzig,

A few shailos. Did the niggun ever contain the etzem nefesh of the shepherd (assuming he composed it)? Does the tahara process also involve the tzadik puttng his etzem nefesh into it or is it just the composition process that does it?

Anonymous said...

Lakewood
1) Isn't bein hazmanim over? you have to stand on the street for the tummel? is your chavrussa dilemma solved? did u approve the chavruss with you wife the real talnmud torah in the house, with the strong ahavas hatorah?
if every thing is settled we can talk.
The Shepperd has no nefesh (according to a Befierush Rav Shach Michtovim Umamorim) so the shailo is irrelevant,

According to the latest shmuess of the masgiach Rav Vachtfogel the Tzadik only has to give 3/4 of his Etzem Hanefesh the balance will come thru solar power,
I hope I answered all you questions

seen it all said...

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...
seen it all:

that line - the SR heard it from a lubab and adapted it to kedusha. - you must be very proud of your גבאונות, no?

Idyut."

Hirshel, during chazoras hashatz we say nackdishoch. In popular yiddish people refer to it as kedusha (or kedeesha where u grew up). I'm surprised that on R"CH Elul u get personal without reading the post at least twice. BTW, if u intended to offend me, I'm moichel in advance.

Anonymous said...
Seen it..
can you specify the niggun that satmar rov was(mechalel)using for mimkomchoch

The Rebbe's maamor niggun, which was sung before the Rebbe said a maamor. It made its appearance in Chabad during the Rashab's time and during WW1 when moved to Rostov they called it the rostover niggun. I'm not sure what you mean by (mechalel), it's a very "tiffe" tune and fits well to memkoimmoch.

yom tov in der vochen said...

Tzig
Lulei demistapinah,
You owe "Seen it all" an apology.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Yes, Yom Tov

seen it all: I APOLOGIZE FOR ACCUSING YOU.

It's tough to keep track of all commenters here. I thought, sice it was in the same sentence as 'Lubab' that you were being degrading.

Please accept my apologies in these, the days of mercy.

seen it all said...

Tzig,
I was moichel in advance, your post was unnecessary. U should have remembered me, we talked last year at the ohel for 2 hours on gimmel tammuz.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

SIA

I do not recall. send me an email and tell me who you are.

Anonymous said...

Hirshel
Imoda Veozav Yeruchem.. especial in the days of Hamelech Basodah

Anonymous said...

I Cannot believe there is a serious discussion of niginim without mention of either Modzitz or Bobov....

It must be moshiach tzaiten !!!

Anonymous said...

Modzitz was discussed,

Anonymous said...

Nothing was written in mishpaha magazine. Afilu mashal lo hyah.

yitz said...

Great post & bunch of comments, but it wouldn't be complete without modest ole mine! :))

Modzitz was discussed, but barely - hidden in a long Yiddish comment which most people wouldn't even know as Mozitz. [What's wrong with מודזיץ?].

Certainly before, during & after the War, Modzitz niggunim have been amongst the leading ones of Klal Yisrael, real heartzigeh negina! AS to "velts" niggunim or what you call Nachalas HaKlal -- what about:
1. Prok Yas Anach - Imrei Shaul
2. Kadsheinu - Imrei Aish
3. Lo Savoshi - Imrei Aish
4. Keil Adon/Shir HaMaalos - Imrei Aish
5. Mizmor L'David - R. Benzion Shenker
6. Eishes Chayil - RBZ Shenker

I could go on & on, but you get the idea - a tremendous amount of Modzitz negina has become Nachalas HaKlal! And some of these were never even recorded, or appear on obscure recordings that very few have!

To be continued, after Shabbos, IY"H.

Anonymous said...

Yitz,
I heard a Modzitz Yedid nefesh lately a beautiful one,
are there a few yedid nefesh of modzitz?

but it does not talk to your neshoma as a chabad nigun

Anonymous said...

Please, any day Modzits is more brillant then Lubavitch. Neshama is a matter of opinion.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

1) you've probably not heard much Lubavitch other than the "standard" stuff.

2) Brilliance? Mozart or Bach are more brilliant. We're talking Neginah, and what it does for the Neshomoh.

Anonymous said...

You have not heard much Modzits. I have heard much more Chabad than you have heard Modzits. I am sure I have heard more Bach and Mozart than you as well. While Chabad is good music after awhile it's simply boring. It's lacking in Modzits creativity and originality.

Ferster hat said...

"2) Brilliance? Mozart or Bach are more brilliant. We're talking Neginah, and what it does for the Neshomoh."

Chsides,neggineh.Blah,blah.You and yehupi are the same mushchosim or worse before you started bebbing chsides and felshing boring neginim.

Big tawker with pitzy brain.Just like you know who

ferster said...

You up this late?

fer said...

I want to understand once and for all the inyan that Lubavitch decided that the Rebbe is "nossi hador"

Anonymous said...

Nu?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

anon 12:57am

and you know how much Modzitz I've heard?

do I need to sing אזכרה with no help to prove my point?

go away.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

bebbing and Felshing..... I like that, very creative for a third grader

Anonymous said...

"bebbing and Felshing..... I like that, very creative for a third grader"

Third grader, whatever.
Bottom line is that you are not a good person, muschas bemidos, so is your side kick Yehupi.So what has all your supposed learning or bebben of Chsides done for you?
wHAT have all those hartzigeh neginem, vus raisen shticker done?
You are stam a missionary for the crazy lubavitchers and trying to convince people how much Lubavitch does.The answer is mostly nothing.Besides getting yud alef nissan to be nominated by Washington as some kind 9of "education day"

yitz said...

There's an old Hebrew saying:
על הטעם ועל הריח, אין מה להתווכח.
Basically, that in matters of taste, & obviously music is no exception, one's opinion is not more correct than another's. Whatever "moves you," man.

However, as to creativity, originality and sheer output I don't think any group or individual comes close to Modzitz. We're talking about thousands of niggunim here, just to give you an idea:
Each year, the Modzitz Rebbe composes a dozen or so [it varies between 10-20, but a dozen is very typical] new niggunim for the Yamim Noraim. For the rest of the year, there's usually another 5-10, for the other holidays & simchos [Chasunas, brisos, Bar Mitzvos & the like]. This has been going on for about 130 years or so, so you have 20X130=2,600 niggunim right there! Add to it those of Chassidim: RAD Fastag, Kaufman-Yidel Eidelson, RBZ Shenker, etc. & you can see that the number could easily approach 5,000.

Originality: Modzitz doesn't copy from other groups, & its main influences are from its predecessors [Zvolin & Kuzmir]. BUT other groups copy from Modzitz, to name a few: Bobov, Belz, Vizhnitz, Breslov, Karlin and yes, Chabad.
Case in point: take the "Chabad" niggun, "Becha Hashem Chasisi," "composed" [really, adapted] for the late LR's birthday one year. This is almost note-for-note a rendition of RBZ Bobover's niggun, which in turn is a variation of Rebbe Shaul Modzitzer's "Kakasuv - Hinei Anochi Sholeich Lachem" tune.
Similarly, Chabad has "borrowed" from Carlebach [Mekimi & Yismechu], Vizhnitz [Yifrach b'Yamav Tzaddik] and as mentioned Modzitz.

Yedid Nefesh: There are many tunes sung to these words. Often they may have been composed to other words, or even as wordless tunes, then adapted to YN.

Anonymous said...

Tzig, I am sure that you can't sing אזכרה הגדול without any help. There are very few people who can do so. Even BZS many times refers to its notes. You are just proving my point you do not know other music beside maybe for Chabad.

In any case אזכרה is proably one of the most sophisticated compositions ever composed in Jewish music. There are few who truly comprehend its genius. Most people are just enamored because of its length.

It's not a matter of debate, which music is greater, the only question is who takes the number two spot. To compare Modzits to any other Chasidic music is ignorance.

Anonymous said...

Yitz, your being kind.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

anonymous

you're proving my point that you shoot your mouth off without knowing who I am and what I know.

PLEASE, go away. I beg of you. Have rachmonus. You're dragging all of us down with you.

Modzitzer niggunim are very creative, and they may have 20000 niggunim, (many of which are forgotten by now, and many of which need music and singers like on the records otherwise they sound like cr-p , and many of the new ones have no taam whatsoever, they're just done to follow traditions, with no skills.) That was not the point. The point was the Pe'ulah on the Neshomoh of a Yid. OK?

Anonymous said...

Tzig, you’re simply a liar. You can’t sing אזכרה הגדול on your own if your life depended on it. As I mentioned even BZS needs to refer to notes, but you can sing it on your own, please. Moreover, it is typical of the uneducated to cite אזכרה as an example because it is so famous. Those in the know would have referred to the countless niggnuim in the Modzits repertoire that are either longer than or as complicated as אזכרה to prove their familiarity with Modzitzer niggunim. You simply do not know much about the inyun.

The fact that you need assistance such as singers and music to discern the underlying brilliance of a niggun only proves my point that you have no idea what a great song should sound like. Clearly your Chabad bias is showing.

It is very easy to resort to abstract arguments such as the pe'ulah on the neshomah of a Yid. In truth it’s a smokescreen and usually a bunch of bunk. A song first and foremost needs to stand on its own and then we can judge if it speaks to the neshomah. While there are songs in the Chabad repertoire that would stand up to criticism some of the niggunim lack proper structure and are downright boring. Moreover, many people conflate depressing niggunim (which is a Russian affliction) with neshomah. Gloominess is a cheap way to the neshomah. Of course you are going to shout but that is only because of your partiality and ignorance.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

ok, you win. you know best. you're G-d's gift to neginah, and Psychology too!

May there be millions more like you; honest, objective and a real judge of character based on no facts at all, just telepathy!

Have a nice life!

Gershon said...

Mr anonymous (ferd)

I know Tzig, you don't. I sit with him every shabbos, when he leads the niggunim. He's done that for over 15 years. Chassidim that shtam from Chabad since the Alter rebbe are in awe of his knowledge and preciseness. He has instant recall on any of the hundreds of Chabad nigunim, all you need to tell him is a note or two. He's also a tremendous Gaon in Neginah in general, Modzitz included. karlin as well. Ger too. Bobov also. I've heard him sing their Niggunim for hours too.

You're a moron and you make Modzitz look bad for making stupid statements in their name, especially when you have no knowledge of the subjects you discuss, which is sign number 1 that you're a moron.

I second the Tzig's motion: Go away, please!

yitz said...

Why do you guys try to make a Jewish site into a Roman "Circus Tent"? [Sorry, couldn't resist!] Let's all owe up to the fact that we're all just expressing our OPINION, ותו לא.

With the possible exception of some of the Rav Ba'al HaTanya's niggunim [okay, Alter Rebbe for you guys], I don't think anything in Chabad compares to the operas of the Divrei Yisrael and the Imrei Shaul of Modzitz [the first 2 Rebbes]. They don't move you in the same way as a Chabad tune? I can accept that, but don't tell me that if I get my Hisorerus from Modzitz rather than Chabad, that I'm lacking in anything [which was said somewhere here or on the other post]. על הטעם ועל הריח.

I am also skeptical about your singing of the Ezkera, unless you mean the Ezkera HaKatan, which is certainly more plausible. But I'm willing to give you credit anyway.

There is a certain impression in much of the non-Modzitz world, that Negina in Modzitz stopped with the Imrei Aish [the grandfather of the present Rebbe Shlita]. This is far from the truth. The Nachalas Dan, the previous Rebbe, composed some first-class niggunim. In my opinion, his Slach Nahs, year after year, were very moving, and he made some niggunim for Heyei Im Pifiyos that even surprise some Modzitzer friends of mine for their quality & depth.

The Rebbe Shlita has only been composing for some 3 years now, but already has about 60-70 niggunim, some of which are very good, inspiring & he hasn't really even begun! Don't write us off so fast!!!

shua said...

Yitz,
Understand this,please.The Chabad niggunim in Tzig and his chevras opinion are the best simply because they are Chabad! In their opinion anything Chabad is the best, not because it is so objectively speaking, but because it is Chabad.
Do you really think you could convince them otherwise?Hey, you could not convince them that the Rebbe is no longer a candidate for Moshiach since gimmel Tammuz.
If you want debate on any level above elementary school go to a website like Hirhurim or DovBear, this site is for people who preach to the choir and offer kool-aid

Anonymous said...

Where is the homeland of Modzidz/Zvohlin/Kuzmir ? Poland? Ukraine? Galicia? Russia? Belerous? Lita?
Is this realy a fact that Russian are more depressed then all the above nationalities? Isn"t Slonim the epitamy of depressing nigunim? didnt they come from the same school as Karlin with a total different style of negina? Did Geshuri discuss these in his books on chassidic neginah?

Anonymous said...

The chabad nigunim that were sung for the LR Ymei Holedes are not the Chabad nigunim that is being discussed here, it was brought by Chasidim, each can probably be tracked down,there are many nigunim that were brought to chabad from other sources, I think even the famous Uferatzto song is some Israeli song(maybe I"m mistaken)

Chavadnik who also appreciates Modzitz said...

Tzig,

if you can really sing אזכרה can you make me a recording? I've never heard it and would really like to learn it....

Anonymous said...

Maybe from the discussion we will create some commercial benefit for our host the rabon she kol bnei haTzigen. we will get a recording of the Big azkaro

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Here's a suggestion:

I record Ezkeroh HaGodol and sell it for 5 bucks a pop. Will you guys buy it?

Anonymous said...

U take credit cards?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

טשעקס קען מען צו קאנג. גדיים ותישים
מאנסי נעוו יארק

קרעדיט קארדס ? ביטע לייגט צו נאך 3 פערצענט

Anonymous said...

stop with the Cong. business, the Mosrim are out there to get you

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

you mean my snag neighbors will tell on me?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

תיקון טעות

טשעקס קען מען אויסשטעלן צו קאנג. גדיים ותישים
מאנסי נעוו יארק

Chabadnik who also appreciates Modzitz said...

Tzig, I'm serious. How can I contact you?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

neveler at gmail dot com

is my email address

Anonymous said...

Hirshel
Some postings regarding chasidic negina were from quite informative people,and they were cut off in a non civil manner.We the readers could off get out some clarity in that field.But they all were run over by the bus.

yitz said...

Anon Sun 9:17 PM -- If you're referring to me, I'm not afraid of the bus - I walk to the other side, or around it, above it, or under it! :))

Anon Sun 7:17 PM -- Modzitz [and Kuzmir & Zvolin] is/are in central Poland. Not very far from Radom, a little to Warsaw, etc. The Divrei Yisrael is buried in Warsaw, where he spent his last years. The Imrei Shaul was in Otvosk [Otwock], where he was a neighbor of the Rebbe Rayatz. I also find Slonimer niggun somewhat depressing, but I have friends who find them deep & uplifting. As I said, al haTaam...

Anon 7:28 PM - Yes I know that there are some very deep, moving, touching, etc. Chabad niggunim. My point was that Modzitz has so much original work that it does not need to go "outside" for niggunim. At least on a musical/Neginic level, that indicates a ma'alah, no?

Anonymous said...

Yitz,
If we conclude that the surronding have a influence on the chasidic negina, so can we conclude that Modzits and Ger are close in their composing styles? but Aleksander/ Vorka is definitly different, were they also depressed people? is their some Russian gene running thru their lineage ?

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

I'd buy it.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

you'd buy it? without even knowing what I sound like?

yitz said...

Anon 11:38 AM: While there are some similarities between Modzitz & Ger, Negina in Modzitz is/was more developed than just about anywhere else. Again, the output in Modzitz is overwhelming compared to that of the groups you mentioned. Ger has some nice marches & waltzes, but not much in the way of Tish or dveykus niggunim. I haven't heard too much of Alexander or Vorke to tell. Radomsk has some interesting stuff, and don't forget that the first R. Shlomo'leh Radomsker was by the Kuzmirer...

Anonymous said...

yes,
and he was considerd a beautiful baal tefila,
is there still 1 radomsker nigun around? who would know it, Cheskel Besser?

Anonymous said...

Lipa, (yes the crazy lipa)has on 1 of his CDS a Vorker/Amshinover Sholum Aliechem, I heard it and I appreciated it( although I am far from being the graet maven). It is total nor gerer style.

yitz said...

You guys obviously don't read my blog, for if you did, you'd know that I posted the following over 3 years ago:
Many of the Radomsker’s niggunim are found on a recording entitled "Niggunei Radomsk," sung by the chazan R. Chaim Adler. Featured are seventeen Radomsker niggunim, sung on Shabbos, from Kabbalas Shabbos through Shalosh Seudos. You can hear two of them, Shalom Aleichem and Kulam Ahuvim.

Anonymous said...

Yitz
Sorry, I didnt know you are the CEO of Heichel Hanginah
Sorry, according to my layman opinion the 2 Radomsker nigunim are both non impressive

yitz said...

Anon 6 PM - that's okay. Some of the other tunes on the album are perhaps a bit better, I find them interesting & they seem to have their own style, a uniqueness. Again, al haTaam...