Sunday, December 18, 2011

!!סקווער אונטער שווערע אטאקע פון יואל

אינעם "פארווערטס" פון היינטיקע וואך

גיט נישט אפ א טראפעלע כבוד פאר'ן סקווערער רבי'ן - רופט אים ביים ערשטן נאמען, אהן קיים שום עהרע - רופט די חסידים "מאנסטערס" פראסט און פשוט. נוצט זיינע אזוי גערופענע סאטמארע חסידים פריינט צו אטאקירן סקווער, דורך דעם וואס ער זאגט איבער קינדערישע טשעפעריי וואס ער האט געהערט פון זיי, און זאגט אז "מוטשען זיך די סקווערער חסידים פֿון פּסיכאָלאָגישע קאָמפּלעקסן," בקיצור, א פולשטענדיגע אטאקע קעגן אן עדה קדושה פון אידן וועלכע ווילן נאר דינען דעם אייבירשטען אהן קיינע שטערונגען אוועק פונעם טומל פון די שטאט, און אהן דעם וואס מ'זאל זיך דארפען באציהען מיט מענטשן וועלכע האבען נישט די זעלבע איידיעלן ווי זיי. דאס אז דאס רוב פון די איינוואוינער זענען ניטאמאל פונעם אוקראינישען אפשטאם איז אויך אן "עבירה" אין יואל'יש'ל'ס לויטערע אויגן

חרדי'שע אידן האבען א חוב קדוש דאס צורעכט מאכען

79 comments:

Anonymous said...

מה נאמר ומה נדבר, ווי א געוועהזעהנער מקורב פונ'ם סקווירא רבי מוז איך ליידער זאגן אז אסך פון וואס ער שרייבט איז דווקא יא אמת - ווען איך האב מעורר געווען דעם רבי'ן וועגן די סקאנדאלן וואס קומען פאר, האט מען אנגעפאנגען פארשידענע הוצאת שם רע און רדיפות. אזוי האט מען געטוהן און מ'טוהט אויך ביז היינט צו די וואס פראבירן זיך אנצונעמן פאר כבוד שמים - מ'פסלט זיי און דערנודערט זיי

Anonymous said...

i heard zalman gifter lost the din torah in telshe the toen for the other side was chaim roth from boro park who is also a toen for one of the bobover factions

Anonymous said...

he was fed info by some proffesional self hating charadiem

Anonymous said...

How big is the readership of the Yiddish forverts?

Anonymous said...

there is no yiddish word for monster?

Fed Up in Peoria said...

For a moment, I thought you were serious.

Pinny said...

דאס רופן דעם רבין ביים נאמען, ווי איך פארשטיי, קומט נישט פון זלזול, נאר איז דער סטאנדארד דארט. דער טיטל ליגט דעם "סקווירא רבי".
איך מיין אז מיט "מאנסטערס" באציט מאטווועיעוו זיך צו דעם ראיון, נישט די מענטשן.

איך פארשטיי אויך נישט פארוואס דער ארטיקל דארף אננעמען אזא אנגרייפערישן טאן.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Pinny
דער ארטיקל מיינסט מיינער צו זיינער
?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

FUIP
who says I wasn't?

וויליאם said...

ווי קאמיש, מערקט ווי אינדערמיט באנוצט ער זיך מיט׳ן ווארט געשלעכטליכע ווען ער וויל ריידן פון סעגרעגאציע,...א מין ארעם צייגעניש.

Fed Up In Peoria said...

I know you know why I think so but I'll spell it out anyways.
Because there was nothing that was said in the article that is not said within the heimishe oilom. Except for using the first name which is not a sign of disrespect from their pov. A lot worse is said on this blog about Square and unfortunately deservedly so.

Fed Up In Peoria said...

Not sure if my comment went through

You know why I think so. I will spell it out anyways.
Because there was nothing that was said in the article that is not said within the heimishe oilom. Except for using the first name which is not a sign of disrespect from their pov. A lot worse is said on this blog about Square and unfortunately deservedly so.

Ende Tsadik said...

I agree with Fed Up. As uncomfortable as it is to read some home truths not couched in euphemisms the time has come to stop beating about the bush. We can't complain when Failed Messiah makes a career of hate mongering if we cannot address our own problems frankly and honestly.

Why should DT deserve respect if he doesn't continue bedarkei avoisov? What's the difference between him and the guy they're mourning in North Korea? Both are in their positions because of their parents and both dragged their people back to the stone age.

The writer has not suggested that the whole of Skver is rotten and he merely pointed to a corrupt leadership which has run out of things to hate so they have to turn on the goyim. As if it's not enough that Skver have been ripping off the goyim they have to hate them too and make a mitzvah of it.

Anonymous said...

I’m not a square’r cusid and I haven’t read yet the article written by this yutz!, Because coming from the forward who was the official so called yiddish ‘jewish paper’ in N.Y. in the 40-60’s I’ll attest that it must be negative to the core, A paper who was behind the terrible assimilation of American jews, a paper who’s romantic articles (read smutz) fed the old and young readers with filth for many years (in yiddish letters!), a paper who was printed weekly in shabbous! In it articles of blasphemy that the משומד c hitchens articles would pale! a paper who was dedicated to advertise jewish balls-parties and jewish yiddishe plays on the than jewish east side occurring on SHABBOUS! And Yom Kippur! who used to threaten rabbunim opposing them that they will smear them in public! A paper who had the audacity to write daily articles of the last sort on קוה"ק RYT z”l in the beginning years of his establishment in America, thinking he will budge for this rag! paper! A paper that died as a ‘direct result’ of this atrocity! (I’ll not elaborate here.) Is trying to resurrect itself and establish itself with the same tactics that he died by! NO! המשנה בבכורות קובעת, כל היוצא מן הטמא טמא I’ll add צא טמא No one needs you and no on reads you in the orthodox jewish market! You’re a re-born again goy! who caters to Goyim mostly! A piece of old crap that’s trying to smell fresh again! This time for MO ½ Jews and for comlete Goyim! Good luck and get lost! As I mentioned I’m not a square’r cusid at all but, חבר אני לכל אשר יריאוך I would ratter go to hell with them.. Than in Heaven with you! and you’re old park bench lost and confused readers! Who still get a jolt in their spine reading your Schadenfreude smut articles! have fun while you last and Drop Dead again Soon.

Pinny said...

איך האב זיך באצויגן צו מאטוועיעוו'ס ארטיקל.

Another Anonymous said...

10:37 Where'd you learn to write with such a geshmacker taam? Hitchens...schaudenfraaaade... unrighteous indignation...-WOW..WEEE!

Anonymous said...

Ende Tzadik
"Why should DT deserve respect if he doesn't continue bedarkei avoisov? "
Sorry to tell you, that this ironclad leadership is exactly the way is father envisioned his little fiefdom.
One shul policy was his fathers rule, couples not walking together was his fathers rule,I saw lately a letter of Rav Neuschloss writing to a couple that he saw them walking on the street together, that it is against the basis of our founder(Reb Yakov Yossef) when he created this village.
I think that after the war the old Skverer Rebbe was the most rigid leader,eventough he welcome the outsiders with a bright smile,but not for his local residents thats the reason he created that fortress in the woods.The first generation moved there, because they liked that kind of environment, but I guess there offsprings are not ready for it.They should off watch better there gene pool.

Anon3 said...

Hirshel
No hesped for that "great humanitarian" Christopher Hitchens?
Shame on you:).Even Shmuli Boteach that "great advocate" for Jewish religiosity wrote a laudatory piece about him in the Jerusalem Post.
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=249972

Anonymous said...

He was the Ultimate Jewish Apikores that died with no Teshuvah, boruch hamokam shehorgoi....

Anonymous said...

Unlike most Orthodox Jews that I know who have no interest whatsoever in theological questions ,Mr. Hitchens was fiercely concerned with the issue of a benevolent G-d in a world filled with death and suffering .Honestly,doesn't this question bother anyone in the frum world or is it too dangerous to think about?

Anon3 said...

"He was the Ultimate Jewish Apikores that died with no Teshuvah, boruch hamokam shehorgoi...."
Agreed!!!!

Anonymous said...

Agreed!!!!-Anon3
Are you serious?

Ende Tsadik said...

Boteach is trying to get some publicity on the back of Hitchens's cortege. The 'debate' of Hitchenn v Boteach made the latter look like the complete and utter twit and publicity seeker he is. A ranting fool versus an intellectual colossus. And as the Ropshitzer said better to be with a pikech in gehenom than a fool in Gan Eden, though I'm far from convinced that Hitchens is heading for the G-spot and nor am I certain that Boteach is off to GE.

Anon3 said...

"Agreed!!!!-Anon3
Are you serious?"
Yes!Definitely, because in spite of his intellectual posturing and even though ",Mr. Hitchens was fiercely concerned with the issue of a benevolent G-d in a world filled with death and suffering" in the end he still remained a kofer beikur.
To say that the issue of a benevolent G-d in a world filled with death and suffering doesn't concern a thinking Jew is a ludicrous assumption.The greatest believing Jewish thinkers of both previous and and present generations have tackled with this seeming anomaly and perhaps most have not reached a conclusive answer but in spite and because of this our nisoyon as bnai maminim is to see whether we remain steadfast in our faith.Mr.Hitchens failed that test and G-d only knows how many thousands of Jews he shlepped along with him.

Anonymous said...

Anon
"Honestly,doesn't this question bother anyone in the frum world or is it too dangerous to think about?"
frum jews are very proud with their Emuna peshutah, and would rather not ask question

Ende Tsadik said...

Frum Jews c.1760 onwards in Ukraine and spreading ever since. I'm not however sure that the Rambam, R' Saadia Gaon, R' Yehudah Halevi and many more would be proud of their emunah peshuta but they probably would not be counted as chareidi either.

Anon3 said...

To quote a post in reply to Boteach in the JP.
"Hitchens loved many things, above all else he loved Hitchens. He was born a Jew, married his second wife in a synagogue in front of a rabbi. Who is he to so distance himself that he never said a kind word about his fellow Jews or Israel? And who is he to get a free pass from Orthodox Jews, no less?

He betrayed his fellow Trotskyites. While preaching revolution he opportunistically partied at night with the aristocrats at Oxford. He betrayed the cause of revolution for liberal moralizing. He betrayed the values of liberalism by joining the neo-conservatives in their jihad in Iraq and their perpetual war against Islamofascism. If people find fault with Orthodoxy that is all fine and good, but why turn to this self satisfied hater into a moral hero of humanistic Judaism."

Anon3 said...

Hirshel
I had no intention of hijacking your current blog.I wrote in jest not realizing that it will turn into a slug fest.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

no worries, anon3.

Anonymous said...

Ende Tzadik
". I'm not however sure that the Rambam, R' Saadia Gaon, R' Yehudah Halevi and many more would be proud of their emunah peshuta but they probably would not be counted as chareidi either."
The Rambam writes that his Moreh is not for the masses,and in the sefer hyad he writes that philosophy is only for the ones that filled themselves with torah, I canot say for sure the same of the Resag in his Emunah vedayoth> but don"t create some fictional history that our brand of Yiddshkiet started in the Ukraine.

Anonymous said...

Does repeating a formula constitute belief in G-d? Does repeating boruch hashem 150 times a day constitute belief in G-d?At least Hitchens cared enough to argue with all the formidable intellectual powers at his command about the fundamental principle of all religions.After the holocaust how is this subject not the number one issue in Judaism?The vast majority of frum Jews,by virtue of their yeshiva education, have no interest in the subject and naively believe that by saying Ani Maamin they become believers.Yet ,when the [in]famous bus going from New York to Lakewood was trapped in a snow storm well past shekiah,the passengers told the Jewish driver to keep on driving...So much for their "emunah."That's just one example ;you can ask the frum pedophile and scam artist where their emunah is ,as well.The subject deserves a thorough discussion which at least the "Hitch," in his own way, attempted to do.By the way, I have yet to find anyone who became an atheist because of his arguments. What he did accomplish is to get people to seriously consider the question of G-d.

Anonymous said...

Anon3
"He was born a Jew, married his second wife in a synagogue in front of a rabbi"
I think that he learned of his Jewishness in later age, his mother hid it from the family.

Anonymous said...

Anon
"when the [in]famous bus going from New York to Lakewood was trapped in a snow storm well past shekiah,the passengers told the Jewish driver to keep on driving...So much for their "emunah."
it was permitted according halacha, your bringing it up for your Kefira argument is ludicrous.

Anonymous said...

Anon
"Does repeating a formula constitute belief in G-d? Does repeating boruch hashem 150 times a day constitute belief in G-d?At least Hitchens cared enough to argue with all the formidable intellectual powers at his command about the fundamental principle of all religions"
if the repeating the 13 principles is the rotzan hashem, then we the people who believe in Hashem and Chazal included the tzadikim of our generation, will follow that path.
Chris Hitchens is a Halachic Apikoras and that is all that matters, he will get credit for his faux honesty in the Ivy League Universities but not by god fearing people who are not proud to be Friedenkers.....

Anonymous said...

Anon
""That's just one example ;you can ask the frum pedophile and scam artist where their emunah is ,as well"
Ganva apum Machtarta Rachmona Karye, is discussed in chazal and in many seforim.

Anon3 said...

"I have yet to find anyone who became an atheist because of his arguments"
Neither have I but I don't assume to have made a scientific study as to that effect.The man was a pied piper who had a large following even amongst frum Jews as exemplified by you and others.As a believing Jew perhaps you are able remain unscathed by the mans admittedly intellectual prowess but those that straddle the fence are certainly fresh game for his persuasive and seemingly overpowering intellect.

Anonymous said...

Anon
"After the holocaust how is this subject not the number one issue in Judaism?"
can yu start thinking about the thousands of frum jews who lost their families in the war, and kept on believing further, and told their children that it was the Rotzan Hashem Vein Loni Reshus Leharher Achroeho.The reactions to the shoah of the Great Ohev Yisroel Reb Aron of Belz,was the rolemodel for this Jews.
I know many of these Jews, they are not naive, they have businesses, big torah scholars. But are not impressed by a Redfaced scotch intoxicated British Kofer.
It was me that blessed before the blessing Boruch Hamokem Shehorgoi, But now the more I see that some pseudo intellectuals boychics think they are inventing the wheel with this Kofer Hitchens I think I will say it with a Shecheyonu too.

Anonymous said...

I am sorry but the bus could have stopped in a motel and spent shabbes there but they chose to drive on...They were on a main highway with plenty of lodging facilities at the various exits.If there were MOs in the bus you'd say they were all mechalellei shabbes and you'd never stop talking about it. This way it was buried under another 100 stories in the "Faithful Peg..."

Anonymous said...

Do you want to discuss now Halacha in hilchos shabos? or Hichas Masis Umiedech?
if Shabos. then who was the driver? Did they drive past 90 minutes? (RAk held 90 minutes)

Anonymous said...

anon 7:07 " Did they drive past 90 minutes? (RAk held 90 minutes)"

how about motzei shabbos? you cant have it both ways?

Anonymous said...

anon 6:51, "I am sorry but the bus could have stopped in a motel and spent shabbes there but they chose to drive on"

90% litvakis are kalim,(disguised as lomdim) that's why they are litvakis! most chasidim who want kilis are slowly moving over to the litvishe side this phenomenon started here in america in the late 60's, now most litvishe yeshavias are full of them,

ps: i.e. nitpicking the halacha to their advantage, beard and pios, dress code men and woman , language,shabos,israel, secular studies etc etc etc

Anonymous said...

Anon
"90% litvakis are kalim,(disguised as lomdim) that's why they are litvakis!"
I am no litvak defender, but Litvaks are today chumrah obssesive. get your facts straight

Anonymous said...

Anon
"how about motzei shabbos? you cant have it both ways?"
big part of Lakewood, maybe the majority, hold Motzai shabbos 90 minutes

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

72 mins. not 90.

Snagville said...

This last comment takes the cake. Perhaps he wanted to generate a reaction from people like me so here goes. First of all I despise the term Litvak when discussing what really should be Yeshivaniks. Litvak is something only me and about 1000 people in America are lucky enough to call ourselves, the others are just Hungarians who strayed into the Yeshivishe Velt. Second of all, Litvaks are Kalim? Are you nuts? Halacha is imperative as a starter to call one's self a Litvak. So lets' assume I am right and you are really talking about the strayed Hungarians. Compared to who are they Kalim. The average Chosid who is Makil on Hilchos Shabbos 100 times over the avearge Shabbos and doesn't know the 1st thing about Borur Or Schita or a million other things but he does know that the kishke smells good and is very Makipid on going through a seperate entrance by a Chasunah. If that is your Torah, I want no part of it.

Anonymous said...

Hirshel
Reb Aron had a unique shitah of 90 minutes not 72

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

that may be so, but the majority - as you put it - does not keep it.

Anonymous said...

Snagville
"The average Chosid who is Makil on Hilchos Shabbos 100 times over the avearge Shabbos and doesn't know the 1st thing about Borur Or Schita or a million other things"
are you taking facts?
don't you know that all chassidic yeshivahs have seder limud of shulchan orech hilchas shabbos starting from the tur Bies Yossef to Magen avraham, especialy in Satmar yeshivhas it is the bulk of the curriculum.

Anonymous said...

the yeshiveshe in lakewood hold it

Anonymous said...

Snagville 12:08 said...
"If that is your Torah, I want no part of it."

anon 12:50 said: "ps: i.e. nitpicking the halacha to their advantage, beard and pios, dress code men and woman , language,shabos,israel, secular studies etc etc etc"

No kishke eating was mentioned, btw תערובות by simchas should of be added, thank you

Anonymous said...

Snagville 12:08 said... "doesn't know the 1st thing about Borur Or Schita or a million other things"

They learn so that they can find kilos when needed like the above mentioned "shabbos bus ride" !

?חכמים הם להרע להטיב לא ידעו

Anonymous said...

Snag
"Litvak is something only me and about 1000 people in America are lucky enough to call ourselves,"
is your view also shared by the roeshie yeshiva? that the Litvak gene is supreme to the Hungarian gene?
is the Hungarian good only for the Money ? as The Riechman brothers that spent millions to built up the Degel Party and its political newsletter Yated?
All for the sake to help Maran the torah builder.
without the Hungarian the halls of the yeshivah velt would be empty.
Most of the time when you see a yeshiveshe mechaber u see that his family stems for Hungarians, just look at the Hazkora pages.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 12:29 said... “Hirshel Reb Aron had a unique shitah of 90 minutes not 72”

Reb ע"ה , the 90 minutes are לחומרא only! at shabos end, c”v לקולא that’s a ספק איסור דאורייתא no one can give heter on that! Only a litvisher/yeshivar talmid שלא שימוש כּ"צ

Snagville said...

I didn't say Litvaks are better than Hunagarians (could i get away with "some of my best friends are Hungarians"). I am just saying call it what it is. As you said Lakewood is 90% Hungarian. All I am saying is don't call them Litvaks.

As far as Chasidim and Hilchos Shabbos goes maybe they are not as Makpid when they leave home (like people who don't keep other things on vacation) so when i am with him they seem to forget their learning.

As far as the Shabbos bus ride. I agree. This was a Chillul hashem of greatest proportions. However, don't fool yourself into thinking that a Williamsburg bus wouldn't have done the same thing. We live in a "find me a kula" society. besides when they pulled in there were probably people in Kiryas Yoel still doing Melacha (Relax, I am exaggerating).

Anonymous said...

snag 12:08 "Halacha is imperative as a starter to call one's self a Litvak"

dream on! that's why as you say only 1000 of them are left, the rest woke up!and ran who knows where...

Anonymous said...

anon 1:21 "c”v לקולא that’s a ספק איסור דאורייתא "

I'm you meant by לקולא to do a מלאכה erev shabos or at the end of shabos by the time when its ספק בין השמשות and that's a ספק איסור דאורייתא

Anonymous said...

snag 1:47 said "We live in a "find me a kula" society"

Why was Williamsburg bus trown into the mix? i know an episode that the bathroom light for the SR z"l was switched on by a goy! by the שקיעה or right after and he didn't want to use that bathroom all shabbos, I also know of buses coming to monroe for shabbos שקלים and all of them 100's of people got stuck in a snow storm and stayed in monsey didn't dare to continue the ride c"v

Snagville said...

Why are you so focused on where the bus was going? It was also coming from some where you know. (More likely it was outsiders who were coming to Lakewood for Shabbos, but I digress. are you really responding with a Maaseh with the SR ZY'A? Times have changed. I could go Maaseh for Maaseh with you but let's stay with what's doing now.

Zalman Alpert said...

I read the article in question. I usually have much respect for the author's knowledge. he frequenlty writes about Chabad , and philosophy where he makes some interesting points but also is full of factual errors.
I think the author and the Forverts have every right to print this article. the Skverer and all Chassidim need to know that there is transparency today in terms of the media.

My objection to the article is different. he brings down a certain DS as his tanna demesayya.
Of course he forgets to note that this man (he is a brilliant individual greatw riter and thinker) is a BT and is probably married to a giyereth. So he is a nogeh bedavar. If he does not argue that chassidiuth teaches love to everyone, he will have to dislike some members of his own family and so will his follwoers almost all of whom are also Baale teshuva and gerim.Which publisher would publish a book with a serious portrayayl of classic jewish thinking towards the Umos ha-Olam ?
I doubt Reb Nachman had any special like for the Akum . Did he hate them perhaps after all he wanted to be buried at the site of a vicious pgrom in Uman.Next the writer brings down maskilim and halbe maskilim to support him. yes he is correct peopel in NS do not know these books because the Chassidic world does not hold of these mechabrim -kvodom bemkomam munach.
The writer is certainly familiar with the Tanya kadisha and with what the Alter Rebbe writes there at least in theory.I was offended by the Skverer article as portrayed by the writer YM.
But I still had some lunch time left over and "hob durch gebletert" the holy Yiddish newspaper and saw an article about the late Dr. Max weinreich the de facto creator of YIVO who was a son in law of Dr. Zemach Shabad and a grandson of a rosh yeshiva of Ramielis in Vilna. So far so good. Well the article described a memorial held for Dr. Weinreich and has a picture of the event . Well who is front and center of the picture Dr. Gabriel Weinreich the surviving son of the Doctor.
For those of you who don't know Gabby is a professor of physicsin Ann Arbor . But more importantly he is a meshumad to Episcopalian Church and an ordained priest.
I alerted YY Jacobson to this fact after his chashuve journal published a mazal tov to this man by Dr. Dovid katz from Vilna for his great work on behalf of the jews of vilna(sic).
If the alternative to Skver is a meshumad and kavod to the meshumadim , i am with Skver. but I think we have a derech hamemutzah described by the Rambam.

dovy said...

mr. anon who has problems with the un-benevolent G-d obviously has serious issues. genius, do you really think you are the first to think of this question? are you aware that all of the hashkafa sefarim speak about this? have you even tried to learn Moreh Nevuchim, Kuzari or Nefesh Hachaim in your life?
oh right, the fact that a bus of boro parkers once pulled in to lakewood 5 minutes after shkiyah proves you right. and you have even found an ally from amongst the brilliant satmar youth who knows that litvaks are kal. you guys are so pathetic it ain't even funny.

Anonymous said...

"I know many of these Jews, they are not naive, they have businesses, big torah scholars. But are not impressed by a Redfaced scotch intoxicated British Kofer."
I got news for you -I know these people at least as well as you do and maybe a smitchik better. They saw the writing on the wall and became frumer in the 60s and 70s so their kids could do the good shidduchim. Just get them talking about the war and make them feel at home and you'll hear their true feelings about the Holocaust.One reason they don't talk is that they're smart enough to know that no one really wants to know about what happened and certainly not the farfrumte yesiva guys.You're right they're plenty smart and that's one reason of many that they survived the Holocaust.You think their superficial onshtel to the younger generation represents their true feelings? Think again.If you want your children to live in a dream world and fantasize that Zeidy and Bubby never questioned the events surrounding the destruction of 6 million Jews,than be my guest.I spent my whole younger years talking to these people and I know their real feelings...

Anonymous said...

Mr. Dovy-I do have a major problem with the G-d who let 6 million Jews be murdered. Are you telling me that a great intellectual such as yourself does not?You're sending me to seforim of medieval gedolim based on medieval and Greek philosophy which require great preparation to even understand the terminology employed? Does the Moreh have an answer for Auschwitz?You gotta be kidding.

Anonymous said...

Anon
"Reb ע"ה , the 90 minutes are לחומרא only! at shabos end, c”v לקולא"
In a shaas hadchak poskim (not litvak poskim who have no mesorah and shimush chachomim)are using all kullahs, this did not start in the USA,

Anonymous said...

Snagville
"so when i am with him they seem to forget their learning"
I guess your"BEST Friends" chasidim are the wrong crowd, thats 1 reason you are still a snag

An Ailemesher said...

FYI - The bus pulled in 2 hours after the shekia and it had chassidim aboard also. There was confusion regarding a pesak.

After all is said, it was a major chillul hashem, inexcusable. We all need to do teshuva that we lived in a time when so many frume were mechallel shabbos brabim. Who knows which one of us would have done the right thing? Are we all careful to make sure not to leave erev shabbos to a place unless we're a thousand percent sure there can be no issues along the way?

Anonymous said...

An Ailemesher
"We all need to do teshuva that we lived in a time when so many frume were mechallel shabbos brabim"
I would introduce(teshuva idea) that we should at least force 60 women(amnt of bus passengers) to wear the shawls

Anonymous said...

Schneur
"Of course he forgets to note that this man (he is a brilliant individual greatw riter and thinker) is a BT and is probably married to a giyereth"
his wife is no Giyoreth, Sears was first in Chabad and he left to Breslove, I guess breslov has more raw love..

Anonymous said...

Zalman
did u see the new journal Pamon ?published by Buchinger of BP,they had runing some artivles efgarding the subject of love of goyim,
There was some Labin (stmar/zidichov rebishe einikel)with a very liberal semi maskilic view, vs. Rav Deutsch dayan of Klausenburgh BP ultra jewish view on goyim.
I was astound how the Satmar views developed from hating most Jews to being fond of Goyim
This is not what Reb Yoel had in mind...

Anonymous said...

Anon the wanabe kofer
"They saw the writing on the wall and became frumer in the 60s and 70s so their kids could do the good shidduchim. Just get them talking about the war and make them feel at home and you'll hear their true feelings about the Holocaust"
I am starting to diagnose the symptom of the kefira, if a father is only making a unshtel then we have kids wanabe kofrim..
but b"H my folks, father and grandfathers,were medakdek kala kebechmura the day after the war ended , and learned torah non stop while the had thriving business.
They only saw the light of faith in the shoah...not like the famous writer that saw in his book the Night the opposite.
This is no Teller,Prager or Gerlitz story I knew too many of these jews in very personal ways, If you can not get it,then get some psychobabble kefira explanation for them or take a tehilim and say a lot of tehilim and Vehu Rachem Yechaper Oven.

dovy said...

1. the bus did not pull ij 2 hrs. after shkiyah.
2. it is not so pashut that it is assur to have a goy drive during bein hashemashos when there are many children and babies on board. although they probably were wrong, they are not reshoim.
3. it happened 8 years ago
4. how on earth does this justify kefirah.
5. mr. anon, if you wanted answers you would at least try cracking a jewish hashkafa book and not complain that it's too hard. Hashem told us in the tochacha that he would do this to us. you want to know pshat in the tochacha. there are plenty of "medievil" and more current jewish works that discuss it. just thinking aboit it alot, even if you are as "brilliant" as hitchens will not lead to anything but anger.

Snag said...

Chasiddim machmir in hilchos shabbes?

And yet the men go to mikve?

Anonymous said...

snag 5:50 "And yet the men go to mikve?"

So what's wrong with that?, even on yom kippur is permitted בצנעה for a ב"ק to immerse in mikvah(but, shabos! even more so ..)

only litavkes שלא שימוש כּ"צ and paskin without any kabolo come up with twisted halachos.

Anonymous said...

snag 5:50 "And yet the men go to mikve?"

- The shulchen urech, the gru, chai adom, kitzur shilcun urech, mishna berira all paskin it's permissable to go in mikvah on shabos! the chofetz chaim went shabos in mikvah!

But snag from 12:08 who implies he know hilchas shabos, dini borer and schita among a million other things he knows! (except the smell of kishke) paskins, NO mikvah in shabos!

Anonymous said...

1]The driver was a Jew.
2]Adrabeh,do me a great mitzvah and tell me what I'm missing in my inability to understand the "Holocaust" and a" Keil rachum vechanun?"You obviously have read the sources so please give me a brief synopsis.I am not smart enough to understand these things by myself.
3]R. Haskel Levenstein,the biggest bal hashkofoh of our times, himself said that the Holocaust was much worse than the Tochacha.{ Heard from his einikel.]
4]The Polish,Galitzianer,and Litvishe who spent 4-5 years in concentration camps or in the forests were filled with bitterness and anger. I won't speak for ALL Hungarian survivors but I've met more than a few who were equally bitter.
5]My point about the bus is simply to illustrate that it's easy to profess total emunah when things are going well in life. The only true test is a "stress test" where you are called to make a stand for what you purportedly believe in even if it may end up costing you dearly.
6]Many kids who don't get answers to emunah end up going OTD. You ignore the issue at your own peril.

Anonymous said...

"but b"H my folks, father and grandfathers,were medakdek kala kebechmura the day after the war ended , and learned torah non stop while the had thriving business"-I'm happy that they didn't stop to think about the destruction of an entire civilization of almost 6 million Jews with countless Rabbonim and Tzaddikim and innocent children.By the way- congratulations on the 'thriving business...'
After reading your comment, I'm not so unhappy being a "wannabee kofer..."

yankel said...

I am at a loss to understand the question of the holocaust? 6 million people died and went to a better place. Their death was a kaporo on years of aveiros from before and prepared the world for Moshiach. How it works is a lame question. Why does a newborn baby 'deserve' to have the free food his mother gives him? Why does a dreck bag in Manhattan make millions on scams or pornography? Why are we only concerned about bad things happening to good people and not good things happening to bad or neutral people? It may be psychologically difficult for a holocaust survivor to trust prople and to trust life, but the question is hardly intellectual.

Anon3 said...

"Wannebe Kofer" (no insult meant.Just using that title as a point of reference to differentiate between you and all the other individuals who use the label "anonymous")
So whats your point? There is no pat,definitive solution to the issue of
of a benevolent G-d in a world filled with death and suffering especially as it relates to the Holocaust.Greater thinkers then you or I have tried to tackle this issue to no avail.We can think or talk about it ad infinitum,ad ein ledovor sof but the enigma still remains.The question is as old as human and more specific Jewish history.Who are your taines to? Do you believe that the only answer is the one given by Hitchens, to deny the existence of G-D C"V? The only solution we can think of at this point until someone comes up with the ultimate and definitive answer, and I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for one, is teiku.

Anonymous said...

Anon
"4]The Polish,Galitzianer,and Litvishe who spent 4-5 years in concentration camps or in the forests were filled with bitterness and anger. I won't speak for ALL Hungarian survivors but I've met more than a few who were equally bitter."
Horotza Letama Metamin oisoi, and the opposite is on Tahara
If you were searching for the Katnie emuna you will find them, but B"h I found the survivors of the maminim camp.

Anonymous said...

Anon
"6]Many kids who don't get answers to emunah end up going OTD. You ignore the issue at your own peril."
were this kids in the Shoah or they are the same as your people of number 5, of the genaration " things are going well in life"
why do they end up OTD? and they are on a bus till 2 hours after Shekiah, but are still in the structure.
Are this kids more intelligent? truth seekers? Mamesh Kotzker Rebbes...