There is much to read in this treasure trove of letters. Reb Uriel Zimmer was a topic of conversation on this blog way back in 2005. If you did not grow up in קנאי'שע circles the name may not mean much - or anything to you. But if you did, and if you think the fact that he was so vehemently anti-Zionist means that you know his shittos and opinions - think again. יש לומר that it was דוקא his opinions regarding the young State that made him see in the Rebbe an אח לדעה, if you will, which then allowed him to become so מקושר. These letters to the חסיד ר' טובי' בלוי give us a glimpse into the Rebbe's early years of leadership, as well as what it was for a bochur/yungerman of that family to become a chossid. We can see what RTB's doubts and apprehensions were and how they were put to rest by RUZ, who knew where the young Reb Tuvia was "coming from," having come from there himself. The letters had been printed in photostat form back in 5765, but are now published like it should be, for the very first time. If you're looking for זאפטיגע סחורה you can jump ahead to page 32 to see where the Rebbe discusses the "Malochim" in a Yechidus with Reb Uriel. Halevai the שפיץ חב"ד'ניקעס should have the hiskashrus that he had.
Just read the whole thing!
47 comments:
Uriel zimmer fell hook line and sinker for lubob propoganda set up by "tevya"
Anything else new?
Someone recently tells me that R. Tuvia Bloi once wrote (in Kfa"ch?) egarding the kuntres "hatorah vhamedina" which R. Uriel wrote in the yuds. He said that the Rebbe's response was - he didn't write it sharfe enough..
If someone here can clarify correctly - because a few years ago I thought the teguva was farkert: that "the oilam is not greit for such osiyos"; too sharp for them already..
Anyone?
Ben Eliezer
don"t be lazy,
read the kuntres and you will see everything
will lubav stop playing it both ways, already.Please.
they claim to be satmar style anti zionist, yet "bepayel mamesh, lemato leasorah tefuchim" are the most zionistic right wing group, on par with the Settlers.
So which one is it????
Ber
"Uriel zimmer fell hook line and sinker for lubob propoganda set up by "tevya""
its a old assumption of mine that 90% of the obsessed chabad bashers are dyslexic ignoramus,Today I proved it again
If you read well the Kuntres you see that he got close to chabad in the DP camps in Pking where a lot of Russian chasidim were residing.
frequent blogger,
quit ur pack of lies.
if you read the letters you"ll see that tevya, worked with headquarters to ensnare zimmer, getting advice how to reel him in.zimmer was from a baal teshuva backround, quite unusual at the time, and was easy pickings because of quite a few reasons.he was a searcher and had already fallen for the neturei karta/satmar nonsense
response to Moshe...
apparently your brain is too narrow to understand the subtleties of the Rebbe's shito: Anti-zionism - perhaps more than satmar (read some of the letters of the Rebbe to Shazar), but caring for the life of every Jew, which comes about by not giving back land.
had he fallen for the Agudah nonsense ----- now that would be just fine....
Moshe
"if you read the letters you"ll see that tevya, worked with headquarters to ensnare zimmer, getting advice how to reel him "
zimmer saw the light of Chasidus before Tuvia Blau, he saw it in the dp camps.. the letters are to Tuvia and Zimmer to get the Neturai Karta circles a little dose of the alte Rebbes chasidus.
Seeing all you bashers, I realize how important Hirshel site is...
Chasidim like Uriel Zimmer and Tuvia make you people dizzy.
35 years ago the Satmar mouth piece Lazer Epstien (sender dietch) wrote long editorial articles about the chosid and kanoi Uriel Zimmer. Obviously the well where Reb Uriel Tzimmer soul was mekusher, was not mentioned. Being the the satmer henchman he was very cautious not to poison some mushed minds, He was feeding a crowd that were warned not to read no other paper (even orthodox)besides that Rag.. so he was feeding the herd whatever lie of that day.
I saw what he said about the malochim. I have a question. From 1949 was there nobody in the world for the Rebbe zatzal to be mekabel marus from? Why is Rav Levin measured by a different yardstick to Rav Schneersohn? Because he wasn't born from the 'geza hamelucha'?
doobie
did you notice page 27, where he says the Rebbe bought the passuk "V'imru" for Kfar Chabad (and that the Rebbe was especially serious that year). Wasn't it that year, Tes Zayin, in Iyar, when the massacre happened? If yes, it's Ruach Hakodesh gluya.
Yankel
what exactly is your problem?
the Rebbe was not looking for zuchke rebbe or viznitzer Rebbe to become their chusid.
A Rebbe that did not walk in the path of the Alte Rebbe and his FIL, is not considered by him a Rebbe.
Maybe a gutter Yid, for a gut Mofes maybe.
but definitly not a rebbe..
so where does the Malach come in to this discussion.
since you bring it up, Its interesting to note Reb Uriel Zimmer letter , that the Malochim dont know anymore why, and what was the reason of the Hinagdus of the Malach to the Reshab and the Rayatz.
Did you read the article?
Article? or letters?
Bags of letters written to the Rebbe, of righteous memory, would arrive daily at Lubavitch World Headquarters. The letters would come in many languages. A very talented linguist, Uriel Zimmer, would translate the letters that were written in languages that the Rebbe did not know.
Uriel Zimmer was the U.N. correspondent for several newspapers, and at one point served as an official translator there. He knew seventeen languages, and took on various tasks in writing and translating material for Chabad-Lubavitch.
For a while, when he passed away in 1961, there was no one to take his place in the task of translating the letters.
At one point, the Rebbe’s secretariat turned to me and asked me to translate the letters that were written in the languages that I knew. Every so often, for many years, I would receive a package of letters from the secretariat, and it was my job to send them back with their translations.
In the first package of letters that arrived, there were a lot of letters that had accumulated over time. To me, most of the information in the letters seemed boring and irrelevant. To avoid wasting the Rebbe’s precious time, I thought that it would be a good idea to write synopses of the letters instead of translating them in their entirety. Before doing this, I wrote to the Rebbe, asking what I should do.
The Rebbe responded that I should translate every letter in its entirety, with all its details. The Rebbe explained that in the way a person writes, in the nuances of the letter, one can learn a lot about the person and what he or she is truly asking for.
As told by Immanuel Schochet
the above was on chabad.org.. Its good to get the total picture from all angles
It is interesting to note what RUZ does NOT write about that happened during the time when he was writing these letters, viz. the fiasco in winter of tes-zayin (or yud-zayin?), when Hatikvah was performed at a Tomchei Temimim Lubavitcher Yeshiva dinner. The Rebbe was fuming over this, called in a special yehidus with the likes of RShL, & took his name ("tachas nesias ch"k admu"r shilt"a") off the yeshiva! (Not sure if it was ever reinstated. )
Why RUZ did not write about this may be in order not to confuse the fresh Chabadnik, anti-Zionist-raised RTB, with such obvious non-anti-Zionism within (some of) Chabad. So even the Rebbe's response of taking off his name would not have pacified someone from THAT family.
What do you think?
--ZIY
You fail to answer my point. Why is Rabbi Levin dealt with differently to Rabbi Schneerson. If everyone has to be mekabel morus, from whom did Rabbi Schneerson be mekabel morus?
Yankel
"who said Rabbi Levin has to be mekabel Morus?
Ziy
Your mind is very twisted,
The Blaus are einiklech of Reb Moshe Blau, who was more pro Medina then the Rebbe.
If you read the articles of Reb Moshe you see that he had no problem with a Medina al pi torah. You are confusing Reb Moshe and his family with his brother Amrom who opposed his brother all his life.
So your theory why he did not write about the Hatikva fiasco is nonsense.
You are learning in to the letters as if you learn a piece of Rambam, that if the Rambam did not quote a halacha in the sefer Hayad,it has to be that he was against it..
Nudnik-read the letters
on the one hand lubavitch inc, with heshy as the p.r guy, who published r'yoels response to sefer vayoel moshe on this blog celebrate r'yoel kahns refutation of that sefer, yet still claim that lubavitch is even more ANTI Zionist than the Sakmoirem.
Anybody with any interaction with lubavitchers knows that amongst the black hatters chabad is by far the most Zionist.Their schools get MORE state funding than the Agideh, because they are part of the religous zionist school network.
The bottom line is chabad wants to cover all their bases.If they can schlepp Shazar, president of israel, they"ll be tzionem,and if uriel zimmer needs to be reeled in, they"ll be "even bigger anti tziyoinem" than sakmar.Bottom line is: "vous is git far lubavitch"
Emess it's not
shulem
By Hirshels printing the answer of Reb yoel to the sefer VM, does not make him chabads PR guy, the same as he is not the PR guy for Vietzener ruv , eventough he publicized a nice photo from him dancing the chasidic tantz.
Shulem
"Their schools get MORE state funding than the Agideh, because they are part of the religous zionist school network."
To get the facts straight,Chabad does not get money for their yeshivas more then anybody else, its only for the day schools (like chinuch atzmai) that they get money from the government and not thru Itche Miers Agudah
The Lubavicher rebbe did not need Itche mier who was in kenesseth from day one, to teach him zionisim or anti zionism. You are correct he is the only black hatter that did not follow Itche Miers Agudah, or Satmar.since we live in a country thts blessed with freedom of speech, you can call him zionist....
shulem
"any interaction with lubavitchers knows that amongst the black hatters chabad is by far the most Zionist."
how on earth can a person that cried day and night about Moshiach.. be a Zionist?
He believed that giving any legitimacy of Geula to the modern Israel, brings a churben, can he still be labeled a zionist?
Is the meeting shazar that does it? was shazar a bigger Kofer then Mike Blumberg or Eddie Koch?
shulem
"nybody with any interaction with lubavitchers knows that amongst the black hatters chabad is by far the most Zionist"
did the Lubavicher rebbe ever send his chasidim to vote and campaign for a secular mayor in Jerusalem vs. a Shtriemel Yid? (just for the sin of not walking with both hands on the Achoiriem)
To the Villaymsburger yold, approprately calling himself "ein shulem",
This quote shows what a bad defender lubavitch has:"Chabad does not get money for their yeshivas more then anybody else, its only for the day schools (like chinuch atzmai) that they get money from the government and not thru Itche Miers Agudah"
So you "admit" that Chabad SCHOOLS are part of the NATIONAL RELIGOUS PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM,and are fully zionist-state funded right? (known in hebrew as "mamlachti dati")
You guys are some "anti" Zionists!
Even "bigger" anti zionists than the Sakmoyrem (you grew up with),noch der tzi!!!
Lol, what a joke!
Btw, I never said post high school lubavitcher yeshivas get more funding, they don't because the Israeli Goverment does not have any special funding besides what the Chareidim get.
Bekitser azoi: Lubavitch gets R'Yoel Kahn to refute R'Yoelish Teitelbaums Vayoel Moshe , which is all about proving how terrible Zionism is, R'Yoel Kahn refutes it,at least in his and fellow Lubavitchers opinions,Heshy publishes it, YET, Lubavitchers still claim that Chabad is more anti Zionist than Satmar.Do you think people are stupid????
Facts on the ground are:Lubavitchers are the most zionistically inclined Hareidi group.
They get the more Israeli goverment funding than any other group
They get funding for security at various locations worldwide from the goverment.
They are very close with many israeli officials as evidenced by the many politicians that come to Chabad events and to the Rebbe.
There is no Israeli Government official who thinks Chabad is anti Zionist and there is no "man on the street" that thinks chabad is anti Zionist.Actually its the exact opposite.Fact is that Chabad is represented in Tzahal by many more followers that any other Chareidi group.
So everyone knows Chabad is very pro zionist, besides some Villaymsburger yold trying to convince himself and Heshy, trying to do the same.
Good luck with that
Just saw this on crown heights.info
"Ukraine Shluchim Ask Israeli Govenment for Protection"
http://crownheights.info/chabad-news/426566/ukraine-shluchim-ask-israeli-govenment-for-protection/
Another example of how "anti-zionistic" Lubavitch is,eh??
Not that I"m blaming them for asking for protection, I think that's what Israel needs to do, to be there for every Jew.
Just wanted to point out for the Villyamsburger yold
Shulem
"So you "admit" that Chabad SCHOOLS are part of the NATIONAL RELIGOUS PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM,and are fully zionist-state funded right? (known in hebrew as "mamlachti dati")"
so chabad is doing the same sin as Reb Aron in KJ or Shai in Lakewood, taking from the secular government as much money for his sharai chemla institutions , removing the mezuzas or all this mosdois in Willi and BP that are doing headstart, that is officially part of the NY State public school.
The only sin chabad is doing, that they are doing it 3000 miles away in a country named Israel..
You and you ilk are a bunch of chamorim who will never get off that tree thats called the Shita..
Everyone included toldois aron and duschinsky are already vomiting for your dreck....
Shulem
"Facts on the ground are:Lubavitchers are the most zionistically inclined Hareidi group."
I think that Satmer r is the only group that is using the Israeli judicial system starting when Reb Yoelish wanted to get his hands on the Tolchever shul in tzefas, just for the sake that the nephew his archenemey, should not own it. and now the other Nephew that claims to be the sole torchbearer of the shita is also using the Zionist judicial system to steal the property from his brother.
My Willi brother listen to me,
using the secular court system on a other shomer torah is a explicit shulchan orech not some new found religion of a shita..
You dont do whatever you want and then scream I am the holiest because I am anti zionist in NY State.
You don't do hisgarus beumois in KJ NY and tell others what to do.
The torah is relevant in NY as it is in palestine,
you can call and curse the Lubavicher Rebbe, Zionist, but the fact is that Zinosim what the Lunbavicher rebbe knows, is a idea that Does not believe in a moshiach and a nation that is not dependent on Toras and Nishmas Yisroel..
The Lubavicher Rebbe put his life on line, for Emuna in Geyula Shliema thru a Moshiach according to Halacha and trying in every shape and form to get to the Jewish nation shemiras hatorah vehamitzvas..
You can still curse till tomorrow because of your new religion which the whole Klal Yisroel rejected already 50 years ago..
shulem
"They get the more Israeli goverment funding than any other group"
My Willi buddy
the fact on the ground is, that they did not get more funding.. then GUR and Viznitz and Rav Shach the massive Kanoi who had their own people in the Kenesset.. there were many fights on this
shulem
"They are very close with many israeli officials as evidenced by the many politicians that come to Chabad events and to the Rebbe."
A American politican a kofer bashem uvetorosoi on US soil is not a bigger Kofer thebn a Kofer in Palestine.
The Sakmer ruv and all satmar rebbes afterwards were all warmly accepting all the american Kofrim politicans in their houses,with nice silver vases and fruit goblets.
The Lubavicher rebbe had them all in his office, the American Kofrim and the Israeli kofrim trying to maneuver their influence and power for em-betterment of the status of Tikun Olam Bemalchus Shakai... listen to all the Jem videos of these meetings .
No meeting was wasted for discussing the weather etc....
Shulem
"They are very close with many israeli officials "
Chabad (for reasons of their own) has no representative strolling around the corridors in the Bies Haminim,
They don't have the Shadar Gafni (bnie torah)
Eichler (belz)
Litzman (Gur)
Mozes (Viznits)
Dere (Sefardim) doing the work for them. for some reasons they have no need for the Kalie rishon to do the work for them . Whichever askan that has a open door by any of this Kofrim, is contacting them without the Hachshora of this holy shadarim....
Ein shulem
"They get funding for security at various locations worldwide from the goverment."
obviously they are acting responsibly not to repeat a Mumbai shechita chas veshulem
so why should they not ask for security?
Because some convoluted idea of making some midrash in Shir Hashirm in to a more cardinal sin then Avoda Zora, Shefichas Domim Gilu aroyas.
As Reb Yoel writes we(meaning all Jews outside of satmar) Boruch hashem have a torah and shulchan orech to follow , and some ideas based on policies will not dictate the Lubavicher Rebbe.
Shulem
".Fact is that Chabad is represented in Tzahal by many more followers that any other Chareidi group."
In Chabad (and so held even Rav Shach) they believe that if a Yungerman will not learn you just go out for a job, as the torah dictates us. And you dont have a parent deserting his family to shnorr on the Brooklyn streets.
As all Jews in Israel did 40 years ago they served the army and went to worked.
What exactly changed now???
1 think changed, that Rav shmuel Auerbach needs to show For Rav Shtienman I am a bigger Kanoi then you will ever be...
Villyamsburger,
Again: Did R'YOEL kah refute Vayoel Moshe or not?
Are you Zionist or not?
You are so full of irrelevan nonsense from other groups. R'Shmuel this, yada, yada, blah blah.Who was talking about that?
So again: You admit that Lubavitchers go to the Ziyoiny army, yet you still claim that Lubavitch are even more anti zionist than Sakmer???
You admit that thir schools are goverment funded, tziyoiny funded, flags and zionism taught, yet you are still "more anti zionist" than sakmar???
You are a very big baal dimyon.
NB, try and adress the issues without bringing in two hundred other people that have nothing to do with this discusion
shulem
"Again: Did R'YOEL kah refute Vayoel Moshe or not?"
Yes he did
shulem
"Are you Zionist or not?"
No
shulem
"You admit that Lubavitchers go to the Ziyoiny army, yet you still claim that Lubavitch are even more anti zionist than Sakmer???"
serving in the army, is irrelevant to Zionism, its a technical matter
shulem
"You admit that thir schools are goverment funded, tziyoiny funded, flags and zionism taught, yet you are still "more anti zionist" than sakmar???"
Taking back your tax money from a government, is irrelevant to Zionism,its as relevant as you pay for Zionist electricity and you get your house connected to Zionist grid
shulem
"You are a very big baal dimyon."
I wish I would be, life would be better
shulem
"You admit that thir schools are goverment funded, tziyoiny funded, flags "
chabad has no flags, some have yellow flags of the Meshichisten
Shulem
"NB, try and adress the issues without bringing in two hundred other people that have nothing to do with this discusion"
sorry, I got this derech halimud from looking too much in Divrie Yoel and Veyoel Moshe
Shulem
I don't know if you have the tools to think,
But please try hard
why do you think did Reb Uriel Zimmer one of the biggest Kanoim of our generation, a super intelligent person,Hero in the Satmar universe, believe that the Rebbe was anti Zionist?
Is your Zionist knowledge better then his?
I think the readers can read and judge for themselves.
*You admit that R'Yoel Kahn has refuted Vayoel Moshes treatise AGAINST Zionism, yet you still claim to be anti zionist (even more that satmar!)
*You admit to being funded by this "terrible" entity, which BTW FORCES YOU TO TEACH THEIR CURRICULUM!!! (or NOT be funded)
*You admit to bringing in irrelevant nonsense that have no bearing on the discussion! (i guess in your mind it's some kind of diversionary tactic).
Everything is "just technical"......
Nu, vus ken mehn teen.You need help.
shulem
"You admit that R'Yoel Kahn has refuted Vayoel Moshes treatise AGAINST Zionism, yet you still claim to be anti zionist (even more that satmar!)"
If Reb Yoel of Satmar decided 1 day to write some stuff in a sefer full of nonsense that embarrass the logical anti zionist war, then Reb Yoel of CH, is not obligated to agree..
Whatever reb Yoel of sakmer decided is not Torah min Hashomaim...and he is still a daas Yechudoi..
Rav Helbrans or Moshe Ber Beck decided that he is the real anti Zionsit ,that does not make all of Willi and KJ into Zionists... he is still a loony with seforim that are full of loony philosophies.
Helbrans decided that all his comunity should dress up with the taliban garb , then all klal yisroel are not pritzas
Let all readers judge for themselves ....
Shulem
"*You admit to being funded by this "terrible" entity, which BTW FORCES YOU TO TEACH THEIR CURRICULUM!!! (or NOT be funded)"
You admit to use their terrible electric from their terrible grid
shulem
"You admit to bringing in irrelevant nonsense that have no bearing on the discussion! (i guess in your mind it's some kind of diversionary tactic)."
I admit the Veyoel Moshe is full of irrelevant nonsense that have no bearing on the discussion!
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