"I'm asking for a friend"

Moderated by the very talented @srulibesser

I've never had the pleasure of listening to R' Elefant, but he makes זייער א גוטען איינדרוק. Seems like a calm and collected man of discipline, without the Yeshivishe shtick. They say he's a Gerrer Eynikel by mariage, by way of Farbstein, Heine, for those in the know.

POTD - whom can you identify?

Other than the Kopyshnitzer (2-r) and the Boyaner (r)

ע"ד אשר נשאלתי למה אינני מוציא כרוז נגד המתחדשים של "אופען ארטאדאקסי" וכיו"ב

Credit

You know who you are. I'm truly flattered that you value and request my opinion.

 Other reasons may include

1) not inciting the wrath of their many supporters
2) Not wanting to give their more attention than they already are getting
3) I'm no boki in הלכות שררה לנשים
4) I'm just a blogger.

I'm a simple guy with mostly old-fashioned values. Not that I'm terribly afraid of controversy, it's just that they get petty and call you names. Hater, chauvinist, and מי יודע מה. Somehow you become part of this vast conspiracy to keep women down and in the kitchen. Somehow what they want is so simple and so muttar; just like Shabbos clocks and Kosher lamps. No less. The funny thing is that it's mostly men calling for all this change, at least the ones I see. The women go about their business and do what they wanna do. The men go on FB and make a stink. I suppose that wins them points with the ladies? So I should stand here and call out Avi Weiss or the guys at YCT? What for? So that no Orthodox shul takes a YCT or HIR grad as Rabbi? Besides. it's not just about YCT or HIR anymore. The idea has spread to many more similar circles, especially in Israel, and they could care less what a few old men in a boardroom in NY think. It has joined similar movements that have made much headway in recent years, much to every frum Jew's chagrin, and sometimes the only response is to keep silent. That's all I have to say.

Pictures from the First Kenessia Gedola inside - addendum to the CC video

Rare Footage, First Knessia Gedolah, Vienna, August, 1923

Agudath Israel pretends not to have a website

Let's see how many websites we can come up with that don't officially say AI:
1) Association to Preserve the Historical Legacy - דאס אידישע ווארט
 2) Your Convention - not ours
3) 119 Agudah Videos
4) Lefkowitz Leadership Initiative
5) Chaim Aruchim
6) Legal Support Services, LLC
7) Home Program
8) The J.O.
9) AIA 2014 Dinner
10) Professional Career Services
11) Cope Institute

WHATEVER

Sunday Morning Links

BOCHURIM STRIKE IN RADIN

They look at us like some never-before-seen tribe in the Amazon

$1800 gets you 2 double beds and boring speeches in Woodcliff Lake, NJ

Rabbi Joseph B. Soloveitchik elected to the position of "Chairman of the National Executive" of the Agudath Israel of America (1940)



Listen from 17 minutes and so for like 2 minutes. Such foolishness. Rabbi Brog has an audience listening to his speeches? He doesn't really get his message across. I mean no disrespect, but it's poshut hard to listen to! Is he R' Avigdor Miller's grandson? Was this RAM's general view on Chassidus as well?

Not a Harry pounds home what he wants us to hear re: "Open Orthodoxy" - GUEST POST

Rav Yaakov Perlow  - the Novominsker Rebbe - justifiably set off a firestorm with his remarks at the Agudah dinner about Open Orthodoxy. The criticism on the left demonstrate the truth of his words. Deep shameful guilt, borne out by a lack of fealty to the Torah. There is a famous story told about the Chernobler Maggid, insert alternative name at whim. The Maggid called a meeting of his townspeople to raise the needed funds to supply the town with a Esrog. As predictably as the ma yofis'nicks of Vosizneias fame, the town's miser asked why the Esrog was more important than hachnosas kallah for an orphan getting married that week... The Chernobler Maggid needed only to point out that the miser had not contributed to that either, because he deemed something else to be of higher priority at the time he was approached for money for Hachnosas Kallah. There are always many issues that are deserving of the wider tzibbur's attention. Every issue gets its turn to be on the front burner. Tznius, Shalom Bayis, tuition, machlokes, the OTD crisis, and on and on. Woe is to us if we will allow outsiders and fringe elements to set the agenda! I don't know the answers to all the issues. The simplest manner of determining where to place your trust can be done with the litmus test of Lesheim Shomayim. Whom would you accuse of it, summit makers of Footsteps and their attention seeking noch shleppers (bar for Yitzchok Adlerstein) or Rabbi Perlow and his fellow Moetzes members?

we thank Camp Agudah for the vintage photo.

(Hirshel Tzig says: While YCT and the Open Orthodoxers are ווערט דאס געלט, we can argue that the venue to criticize them may not have been the correct one, as well as the need to give YCT much undeserved attention. If I were a betting man I'd bet that 90% of those attending have no idea who YCT or Open Orthodoxy is. Now they all know... They're minuscule, to say the least; the supposed danger to Orthodoxy just isn't there. They're not taking over mainstream Orthodoxy. I think - and who am I? - that it was at best premature, and at worst totally unnecessary. And besides, they got the mayor in hot water from some idiot NYT reporter. Just kidding.)

?צו הייסט דאס נישט "אינטערפיעטה רילעישינס" שכבר נאסרו ע"י כל גדולי ישראל לדורותיהם

Notice that I'm asking, albeit with somewhat of a prejudice. Chabad gets attacked for bringing Rick Jacobs to the convention. Maybe rightfully so, I don't know the rules. the NYBOR is assur because they sit with Reform, and rightfully so. Chas VeSholom, I do not question that. This is an email sent out by the AIA, not some expose' by some zealot who doesn't like what happens there. I don't claim to know the "halachos" of interfaith, when yes and when not. In the FSU we see all kinds of meetings with leaders of other faiths. Is there some kind of rule book? Are laymen allowed to meet but not Rabbis? Is it OK to meet with other faiths but not with Reform & Conservative? In the Old Country they'd rather send to Christian schools than to Maskilish. Maybe this is similar? Notice there are no representatives of other "branches of Judaism" at this meeting.

סאטמארער (אהרונים) גליון באשולדיגט אגוה"ר און אגודת ישראל אין פארשווייגן נאצישע שחיטות און נישט וועלן ראטעווען אידן

און זיי נוצען אלץ ראי'ה אן "אגודיסטישע" רב פון וויען-טאראנטא, הרב שמעון פירסט ז"ל. כ'ווייס נישט ווער דער גרינבוים איז. חפשתי ולא מצאתי דער ספר "עיר הגולה" פון הרב פירסט, אזוי ארום אז ס'איז שווער צו וויסען צו ער זאגט טאקע אזוי אין זיין ספר, צו איז דאס סתם א בלבול. ס'איז שווער צו גלייבען אז ער שרייבט אזוי, ווייל אינעם זעלבן מחבר'ס ספרים האט ער הסכמות פון הגאון ר' משה פיינשטיין זצ"ל, דער נשיא פון אגודת הרבנים... קומט אויס אזוי: דער סאטמאר רב האט כידוע באשולדיגט די ציונים אין וועלן אז מ'זאל אויסהרגענען אייראפעישען אידנטום "כי רק בדם יהי' לנו הארץ," דאס ווייסט יעדער בחור אין סאטמאר. עד היום האט מען אבער געמיינט אז די אגודה, ובראשם דער סאטמאר רב'ס ידיד נאמן הרב אהרן קטלר, האט יא געטוהן וואס נאר זיי האבען געקענט. געראטעוועט ישיבה בחורים, רבנים, און ראשי ישיבה. היינט אבער זעהט מען אז דאס וואס דער רבי ז"ל האט געזאגט אז "ציוניסטן, מזרחיסטן, אגודיסטן ימש"ו" איז נישט סתם א הלצה בעלמא, נאר די אגודה איז געווען בדעה אחת מיט די ציונים און האט אויך נישט געוואלט ראטעווען אידן! זיי האבען נאר געוואלט געלט און כבוד, און ווען נישט דער בחור'ל וואס בלאנדזשעט אריין אינעם ביורא פון אגוה"ר וואלט מען די הונדערט טויזנט טאלער נישט צונויפגעקליבען און מ'וואלט די מענטשען נישט געראטעוועט. זעהט די פערטער שטיקל, "די אגודה האט אויך פארשוויגן" ותמצא נחת. אוי לנו אז אזוי איז מען מחנך אינגע אידישע קינדער, און אוי להם לאחיי ורעיי חסידי ותלמידי סאטמאר אז ביי די אלטע לייט ווערט מקויים דער מאמר חז"ל זקני ע"ה כל זמן שמזקינין דעתן מטורפת עליהן.

They take it all, your ideas, your slogans

 

No shame. Using Uforatzto as their theme song. The nerve! Since when do AI conventions have theme songs and videos anyway? What's next? farbrengens and kinus HaShluchims? 

Brisker "Wikleaks" B O M B (Part II)

(Here's Part I from way back when)

This 32 page treasure full of lies, half-truths and distortions gives us a glimpse into the Ahavas Yisroel that many of the Gedolim had for their fellow Jews - especially Chassidishe Yidden, ובפרטי פרטיות אידן בעלי מסי"נ כמו חסידי חב"ד ורבותיהם נ"ע. And I've only read until page 3... Why do I call them lies, etc.? Because otherwise I have no choice but to lose all respect that I had for many of these Rabbonim and Roshei Yeshiva. What would you do in such a case? Comments asking me to decipher and type this up will be ignored, unless you send me your credit card information and allow me to charge it $35 an hour. I think that's reasonable for this type of work. If you're going to post this elsewhere or pass it around at least link back here.

  Notes Lo Noda Lemi 1 by   neveler

For our non-Scribd users here's a link to Box, which is good with most filters as well.

Why did Agudath Israel not want to be part of the Jewish Welfare Board?

The following letters give us a glimpse into some of the happenings in the Orthodox Jewish world at the outset of WW2. The attack on Pearl Harbor had yet to happen, but there was talk of War, and as such the needs of the soldiers had to be met. Rabbi Leo Jung was Orthodox, as you all know, as was Rabbi Herbert Goldstein, so this wasn't a Stephen Wise we were dealing with. Did Reb Mike not believe that they could handle the needs of Jewish soldiers properly? It seems a bit odd that he would want to go around them just because. I'm sure a frumme bochur in the army could get the tefillin and heter to not use a razor through the JWB just as much as through the AI. And I doubt that the latter would have more pull than the JWB, even of they were more sympathetic to a frummere bochur's needs. Maybe you all can fill in the details. Some of us are losing sleep over this. The letter seems to be signed by Rabbi David de Sola Pool, Rabbi of the Spanish Portuguese Synagogue in NYC and a musmach of the Hildesheimer Seminary. Reading between the lines WILL show you a bit of the "talking down" that Reb Mike gets from RDdLSP, and gives you a general idea of what the Yekkes thought of the Agudists...

  

Via Ancestory.com

הרב ר' זלמן לייב מייזליש שליט"א אב"ד קהל יראים סי-געיט מיט ראשי האגודה

.און נאך מיט די פינגער אזוי צאמגעלייגט

וואס וועט זיין מיט די התבדלות?  זעהט אויס אז מ'זיצט מיט אזעלכע "רבנים" און "רביס" קען מען שוין אזוי האלטען די פינגער אויך. איין התחברות ברענגט צו אן אנדערען. אמאל האט מען געוואוסט אז די רבנים מבית מייזליש זענען שטארק דבוק אין די שיטה, היינט איז שוין נישט אזוי. לינקס איז הרב משה טוביה ליעף פון פלעטבוש אגודה, דער נאוואמינסקער רבי און ר' יעקב בענדער פון די דרכי תורה ישיבה אין פאר ראקאוויי. די זיצונג/כינוס איז געווען לשם שמים, דוקא, מ'איז זיך צאמגעקומען נתעורר ווערן נאכ'ן שווערן שטורעם, און רבי זלמן לייב איז געקומען אלץ דער רב פון סי-געיט, וועלכע האט געליטן שווערע שאדן פונעם הוריקאן סענדי, אזוי אז ס'איז שווער דן זיין רז"ל פאר'ןזיצן מיט די אגודיסטן, כאטש אז אפילו אין די שווערע צייטן דארף מען זיך שטארקן און נישט זיך בייגן.
 
Source

In Elul 1941 RYDS and RAK sat on the "Moetzes" together

The wording is a bit different, but it looks like it's the forerunner to the current Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah of the Agudas Yisroel. Reb Moshe Soloveitchik had passed away a few months earlier, in Shvat of that year, and his son was asked to join the newly formed Rabbinic body. I do not know how long he sat on the Moetzes, conventional wisdom u\likes to use WW2 or the creation of the State of Israel as the date that he switched from the Agudah to the Mizrachi. So it's not just the Chinuch Atzmai and Torah UMesorah dinners that they sat together... But maybe we can be "מלמד זכות" on RAK that he since he had just arrived to the States from the European inferno that he didn't want to rock the boat yet...

But I can dream, can't I?

1949 - Chassidishe Rebbes calling for a חזית דתית מאוחדת

It happened once and lasted 21/2 years, from Feb.1949 to Aug.1951. And I don't believe it ever happened again. Agudah, Poalei Agudah, Mizrachi and HaPoel HaMizrachi. Anybody know why? Do you notice anything about the signatures? That's right, there are only Chasidishe Rebbes on it. Not a single non-Hasid. No Litvishe Rabbonim nor Rosheshives.  Did Kol korehs work that way? separate but equal? Judging from the fact that The Agudah was not all Chassidish I would assume that the Litvishe Gedolim also supported this united front, so why did they not all sign together? And why did it never happen again? Who backed out? Who decided against it? What were the Brisker Rov and Chazon Ish's opinions about the bloc? Were they for it before they were against it? I cannot recall at the moment and am having a hard time finding it in the history books.

Read about the Religious Bloc that got 16 MKs in the 1949 elections

More on the חזית דתית מאוחדת of 1949

Did he take credit for the Hey Shvat "Tish"??

Credit: Gruntig.net

This is NOT an attack on Reb Mike Tress, z"l.

 Maybe it's me and my bias, but it sounded like the juxtaposition of the two terms, Agudas Yisroel and Hey Shvat Tish were supposed to tell us that they were somehow related. That the reason survivors could sit down to a Hey Shvat gathering was because they were members of Agudas Yisroel. Nothing to do with the fact that were Gerrer Chassidim... I realize that he was speaking to an Agudah assembly and was trying to speak of the Agudah's activities among survivors, but still, it's a bit of a stretch. Then again, it could be my inherent bias that drives me. It often was and is the case.

Is the Agudath Israel misusing Reb Chaim Brisker's name here?

After all, Reb Chaim did rescind his support from the Agudah. So despite the fact that he originally supported the idea of an Agudah of Charedim, in the end he didn't. So to say, 100 years later, in an ad for the CURRENT Agudah, that Reb Chaim supported them, is somewhat disingenuous, no? Reb Chaim's picture is second from the left.