I had the opportunity over Yom Tov to spend considerable time in other Charedi circles, something I don't do very often. Chabad does that to you after a while, for better or for worse you begin to stick with your own.
During Shalosh Seudos I sat and listened to the Zemiros, some of them quite uplifting and inspiring, even singing along for a while, and I began to wonder:
Why do we not have this? Why did the Alter Rebbe omit such beautiful Zemiros from his Siddur?
Don't get me wrong, we have beautiful Niggunim in Lubavitch, Niggunim that can take you to true spiritual heights and that awaken even the soul in the deepest slumber, but wouldn't words do a better job?
Words that express the beauty of Shabbos, the laws of Shabbos?
So I thought of a story.
Reb Shmuel Munkes once came to a village of simple Jews during Chodesh Elul and spent the whole evening farbrenging with the locals. Late at night they finally finished and went to retire for the night, or so he thought. After a very short nap he was awakened by his host.
"Time for Selichos!"
"What's Selichos"? asks Reb Shmuel. The host could not believe his ears, an old distinguished, learned man not knowing about Selichos! So he launched into long explanation of how we ask of Hashem to forgive our sins so that he'll give us we want. The cows should give lots of milk, the crop should be plentiful and so on.
"פע!", says Reb Shmuel, אלטע אידן שטייען אויף אינמיטען נאכט און בעטן פאר עסן
and proceeded to return to bed. Meaning that such Selichos he didn't want to say. Maybe he said it later, I do not know, but that's not part of the story.
Many of the Zemiros speak of the Macholei Shabbos, elaborating and expounding on the fish, meat and wine that we enjoy on Shabbos. The AR was not very fond of this.
Is that maybe what he had in mind?
ואם חטאתי ה' הטוב יכפר בעדי
23 comments:
Sounds like somebody had too much to drink on Simchas torah.....
I forgot who, but there were people who said most zemiros, but would not sing Azamer / Asader. Have you ever though about the words and wondered if it is appropriate... especially for kids?
I was not talking about appropriate. Kabballah never seems appropriate, but the AR obviously didn't think it was a problem. Ever learn Perek Beis in Tanya? Is that appropriate for children?
Avremel
care to elaborate, FRIEND?!
tell me why you disagree.
I remember eating a Shabbos meal at a Chabad House one Tishrei about 18-20 years ago.
They sang many niggunim (not the regular zemiros) and I asked the shliach why all the zemiros they sang had no words, when most Jews sing the standard zemiros.
He replied that a niggun should not be sang by rote, and that a niggun must reflect a certain spontaneity.
Shortly after that another niggun broke out: "Vayehi Bemei Achashverosh." It was sung with gusto, as if it was actually Purim, and I couldn't contain myself - so I asked what the meaning of that was.
He said, I had asked for a niggun with words, so he obliged - he just felt that a niggun must transcend words, and express an emotion. That's why he felt that song was right...
I guess I can follow the logic, but I still still the standard zemiros.
HT,
I suspect you are right - I have often thought so as well.
Honestly, this is only one of many examples of Chassidic/Chabad minhagim that don't match the general frum public. It also goes back to the definition of the Baal Shem Tov's goals for revitalizing Yiddishkeit.
FOL,
Did the shliach normally sing songs "out of season," or was it just for you?
I remember (similarly) that at our Chabad House people sang any song at any time. I think that it has to do with people who grew up with less emphasis on organized religion. (I also think it is silly, and should have been rectified.)
fish, meat, and wine...i dare say it again, although kurntzer disagrees...most yidden were half starved most of the time...even shabbos.
spontoneity is key..just peek into a shul whereby anyone by the tish can start a niggun, (albeit sometimes inappropriate with no particular shyches with the calender), and the event has vibrancy...life...so often nigunim sung are like dredging a muddy river....no life, no enthusiam, rote..
What abou Nigunim like Keil Mistater? or Koh Ribon? there's no mention of meat nor wine, why omit that?
The Alter Rebbe's ways are בבחינת לא חחשבותי מחשבותיכם
So let's stop trying to figure out why.
מחשבותי
Yasher kayach !
Actually I believe this post reflects the emeser Litvishe derech, even for misnagdim. In this inyan I think Lubavitch has it more correct than some misnagdim today, some of whom sometimes copy some things from chagas Chassidim.
Misnaged
how do litvishe`have it right? speak clearly please.
ht, ananymus also went to yeshiva!
HT - what I meant was that I think that real misnagdisher Litvaks didn't sing zemiros or sang very little zemiros - I recall reading such re R. Aharon Soloveitchik z"l limoshol. I am talking bichlal, not only the Kabbalistic zemiros, which avader lichayre they didn't sing. I would assume that was in accordance with your sevara - that it shouldn't be mitzvas anoshim milumodoh, that people should know the peirush hamilos, not just stam say words whose meaning or full import they don't grasp, etc. I recall hearing a quip explaining this - why don't Litvaks sing zemiros ? teirutz - es shteit 'zemiros yaymayru' - mir zoggen zemiros - nisht zingen zei.
However, in the new modern frumkeit that has arisen it seems that some misnagdim have forgotten this and have gotten into singing zemiros like chagas Chassidim.
Ihr farshtayt yetzt vos ich mein ?
Efsher Reb Schneur ken reden a bissel ayf dem inyan ?
well, ANONYMOUS, I do hear ya now. I think a cretain Roash Yeshiva in Ponovezh is said to have said that the reason he wasn't matzliach in raising his kids is because he didn't sing Zemiros with his kids at the Shabbos seudah. As if he'd know. I guess what he meant to say was that he didn't spend enough TIME with his kids, especially on Shabbos, when he could take some time off for them. The Zemiros thing is stam gehakt a tcheinik.
Since Chabad has changed drastically in a sociological manner since 1950, many of us are puzzled by minhogim.
I have to state the following Lubavitcher people were by and large Litvaks . Reisen was part of Lithuania and even the Chabad people in the Ukraine (Cherson, Nikolaev etc were transplanted Litvishe Yiddn).
As such many Chabad minhogim follow the derech of lita ie no atoros on tallaysim , no fancy Silver for our klei Kodesh, few piyyutim in the siddur and machzor, and in our case the fact that zemiros did not play a major part in our Shabbos meals. The levush was the same as well ( gehakte kapote (surdut) kasket, etc.
Once we realize that Lubavitcher yiddn were also Litvishe Yiddn , we can understand the "reka" of many minhogim. After all we are not Galitzianer, Hungarians, Polish or Ukranian .
As Litvishe Yiddn we were always more interested in the intellect not in extreme emotional outpourings.
The Modsitzer rebbe told the Rayaatz at the bar Mitzvoh of Bere Gourary in Warsaw that bei unz zingt men a niggun after the Rayaatz asked him zu zogen a niggun.
ht, rav sh__ didn't say he wasn't matzliach..i think he was asked if he could dso anything different in his lifetime...what would he change...
N
maybe he din't say so, but he definitely would've like to have a son carry on the "Sh___" tradition, something he did not have.
Kurenitzer - yasher kayach for a fine and informative response.
I would like to ask you though, to clarify - the expression tzu 'zoggen a niggun' vs. tzu 'zingen a niggun' - what exactly is the pshat ? I assume you mean that they were both talking about singing a niggun, but just referred to that act differently, and you're saying that the fact that the Litvaks used the expression 'zogen' instead of 'zingen' indicates a that either a) even if they sang it, the stress was on zoggen, e.g. the words, not the niggun, the musical aspect of it. Even if it was sung, the music was mishubad to the words - not vice versa. Similar to hamoach sholeit al haleiv - hamilim sholtim al haniggun. So that was reflected in using the expression tzu zoggen instead of tzu zingen. 2) In Lita, in the olden days - and even by some in modern times who kept to the old derech - they actually just said the words without a tune. So even if the Rayaatz meant to ask the Modzitzer to sing a niggun, he still, either deliberately or indavertantly, residually used the Litvish expression tzu zoggen a niggun, which seemed strange to the Modzitzer and led to that interesting exchange.
Yilmideinu Rabbeinu bivakosho.
Is the expression "zoggen" when referring to a nigun not exclusive to Chabad? I was under this impression.
Hey! Where did the Smirnoff thread go?
Is Smirnoff Kosher or not?
it went to the archives, click on the October 2005 link, it'll show up there.
Du Hakst ah Tshinick
Most zemiros do not speak of food,
stop with your norishkiten
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