Lakewood Takonos regarding all aspects of technology, mainly internet and those dreaded cellphones. Maybe they mean well, but it sounds all wrong.
Who's going to enforce these rules?
Will they squeeze the information from the children?
Who are the Gedolim they speak of?
50 comments:
At least they are trying something. We however, have completely missed the boat on the internet.
1) who's we?
2) you call this "something"? Having everybody go to the Rov begging for a Heter?
We as in Chabad.
They recognize the problem, we ignore it.
problem? I thought only Chabad has problems!
No, we just ignore them better.
Boruch, I think you're overdoing this self-pity stuff just a bit.
btw, did you bother to read the takonos?
I'm glad to hear that we have missed the boat on the internet. May I ask in what sense? Is this because the only way to deal with it is to publicize takonos? Or because you believe there is a blanket heter in Lubavitch to use the internet for everyone in any way?
HT, Lakewood is normative compared to us here...ie, a serious life/neshoma altering danger arises and they deal with it by first recognizing and then addressing it...nothing draconeous in the takanos. ..you can't say they are trigger happy because internet damage to yidden is ten years in the making... The focus of what is distressing should be the internet and not Lakewood.
Everyone who has children should have filters on internet use. That is a dovor haposhut.
However, this public ban is childish and unenforceable (unless you have a child in Lakewood).
bans like these usually have a negative and opposite effect. They're preaching to the choir if you ask me, those that want it will have it.
i make asher yatzar after gedolim
As was said earlier the "dangers" of the internet are a dovor poshut as is the fact that we must protect our kids (and ourselves) from indiscriminate use. Just as we don't let our kids bring inappropriate books, magazines or videos into the house so must we be aware of what they are doing on the computer.
The problem is that many parents couldn't care less what their kids are doing and just assume that if they don't see it it is not happening.
I personally know of many mature and responsible Chabad parents who either do not have the internet at home or have strict contol of it's use and watch what their children are doing on the computer. They do not need so-called Gedolim to tell them what is appropriate and to give them a heter to use the internet.
Computers and the internet are a fact of life - like it or not. Obviously there is negative stuff out there in "internet land" but there are many ways to stop the shmutz getting to us. Hardware or software filters are one way. If one is not knowledgeable in computers there are many people to consult to get help. Another idea is to have the computer in a public area of the house. Using ones common sense is a good place to start.
Tziggele,
Your badge posted above is of the Lakewood a mile avove sea-level...
Aussie, well said.
Yeah, I know....
wow, BP harsh words from a usually calm guy. Why do you say that this is called "trying to address"?
your words convey the message that internet use is fine and kosher. if this is your statement confirm it to tell your audience how ignorant you are of the problems caused by the internet accross the bard from children to adults to zaides and bubbys. If this is wrong be clear about that as well. In any event, lakewood took an iniative to realize they have to deal with a serious probem... you disagree with the method? or concept?
As usual Shofarblower, like many others, blame the tool and not the individual. He talks about "the problems caused by the internet". I do not think the internet is "causing" the problems - just like in car accidents it is not the car that is causing the problem, it is the driver.
The internet is a tool like any other and can be used in a good way if we so choose. What this means is that we have to expend some effort and learn how to use it correctly and how to control it (and ourselves).
It is about time that we took responsibility for our actions and the actions of our children and do not blame inanimate objects for our problems.
Aussie
here, unlike with carsa and guns, the result is very likely to be disasterous, even if not in the "extreme".
wanderer and shofar, there have been many open forums on the internet in Lubavitch communities and gatherings, with many suggestions given (such as keeping the computer with net connection in an open area, only allowing use with adult present, using all filters available) and a full awareness of the problem. Hence, the danger is those adults and parents that do not heed the warnings. Takanos won't change that, neither will threats. You just plug away.
i think tzigs relative passive attitude has to do with the age of the little "tzigelech" 6-8??
Pastech
to tell you the truth I keep the kids away from the computer, period. The later they learn the better.
Harchakos are takonos that the rabonim instituted... because they knew that we, humans need them.
So you say, that we should deal with the human race differently today? give everyone an infusion of holiness and fear of g-d, as well as a logic infusion of time management.
ok gotta go ... "time mngmnt"
The problem here, IMHO (and with all related "bans")is that as modern thinking individuals it strikes a nerve.
In America - or anyone who lives with democractic ideals - this type of approach is offensive. But, that does not mean that such measures have no place.
Various Rabbanim view their role as Rabbonim throughout history, when banning unapproved or risky behavior was the method of choice.
But, what do you want them to do? As the saying goes "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail."
of course, internet IS a big nail in our collective butts...
As usual the Lubavitcher hate for anything right shows through, even our friend from Down Under,Aussie Echo, calls rabbis 'so called gedolim'Funny, this coming from a sect which is still promoting a 'so called' moshiach.
Chabadskers:Remember when the Rebbe banned too much good stuff aka 'mashke' lucky he didn't ask Ausie Echo. This is what the yukel would have told the Rebbe:'It is about time that we took responsibility for our actions and the actions of our children and do not blame inanimate objects for our problems. '
he didn't ban Mashkeh completely, just excessive consumption.
btw, please refrain from personal degrading comments.
How 'bout bans on college? treife animals?
or the bans on improper clothing? or all the gezeiros chazal applied in shas? Do any of you learn????????????
The key to applied bans can be found in the 5th chelek of shlchan aruch.
Hirshel Tzig said...
he didn't ban Mashkeh completely, just excessive consumption
And the point you are trying to make is......................
It really is not worth answering people like "anonymous". If he doesn't even have enough imagination to select an alias he is probably a child or just feeble minded.
I never get the point of attacking people/leaders etc. trying to help.
Internet is a big problem, whether you like it or not; it has to be addressed.
What do [bold]you suggest?
P.S. How do you make the font bold?
learn some html.
AussieEcho,
Don't answer me, answer yourself!
You, the proud member of the so called 'second coming' messiah , chassidus, has the gall to call other rabbis 'so called' gedolim.Ever heard of the saying ,the kettle calling the frying pan black?I don't know how to say that in Australian or Chabad speak but I guess YOU GET THE POINT
Banning stuff does not work. Forbidden fruit is so much sweeter.
We cannot shrink from the world, it will encroach on us regardless, There is nowhere to hide.
Teens need to feel their parents trust them and are not constantly suspicious that they will fall into iniquity without having the thought police around 26/7. In fact, if parents are too overly suspicious of their kids, they can can actually wind up pushing their kids into behaving badly.
The teen may think that if his parents cannot trust him, then maybe his parents view of him as being unable to refrain from sinning, is a correct one. Remember, teens are still developing their self image, and much of how they define themsleves comes from how they believe the adults in their lives see them.
Also, if we make a big tzimmis about how potentially bad the net is, then this can make kids who were not really interested in it initially, to become curious about it. They may wonder what is on the net that could be so damaging that it has to be banned and may want to check it out for themselves.
If parents use the net for getting essential news, weather, d'vrei Torah, business, emailing relatives, etc., and they keep the net openly in the house without allowing the kids to get private access, then this shows we can use the tools of technology without fearing them, and that we have the confidence to know that we can master the machines instead of visa versa.
The Rebbe's shitta was that technology should be elevated and used for kedusha. While we should not expose our children to lude and non-tznius images and material, it is also unrealistic to imagine that in today's day and age we can avoid using technology, and we shouldn't have to.
Meanwhile, unless one is living in a frum kehilla in EY, in today's modern velt, we are all exposed to a barrage of klippah-dike images and messages on a daily basis. The ads on the trams in front of my own home are ten feet tall and horrible, but we still need to walk on the street.
So, in light of the above, we do not need Rabbinic bans. Most likely those who will not tend to be careful about this issue will not take heed of any bans either. We need only a bit of common sense.
my name is spelled incorrectly above, there is no 's' at the end of my last name.
Naive or blind lubavitchers, 1) Can you imagine the Rebbe using the net for any purpose? I made my point and should stop, but for those who don't yet understand...
2) We are lenient about the use of technology or application of halacha in particular instances as a means to bringing another yid closer, but we don't apply those standards to our daily life. This is a topic unto itself where leniencies for a higher purpose become part and parcel of Lubavitch general culture. Such confusion!
3)The internet is not about making the right decision, even for an aidel teenager. Internet is much too volatile. This is the premise for a ban orchestrated within a household by responsible parents. The two extremes for control is free choice to a ban. When a click of the mouse can lead to instant informational/graphic combustion and ultimate degredation of a neshoma is there really any alternative to a ban? (rhetorical question, there is no other answer.)
The only way I know about the takono against the internet is because I have access to the internet. So I don't feel able to cancel my internet account just yet. Maybe when the kids are older...
BP
the same ones who claim to represent the Gedolim are the ones who utilize the web to further their goals. Artscroll is a prime example.
ht, You need psychotherapy. You are combining disparate parts/impressions of what you perceive the composite "Litvish" world is/was in order to show what big hipocrates, liars, bad guys they are. Religiously speaking you need to do tchuva. Better get started on some front before its too late. Maybe pull the plug on this website before Yom Kippur. You can't even say that you are compelled to fight this battle for the sake of the truth because so much of what you perceive is rather twisted, incoherant, and non truth. What does your mashpia say about this website? Answer me this one question!
One erev Pesach, after inspecting the dorm at Machon Chana the Rebbe told the dorm mother that the place was beautiful but, lacked two things: 1) mirror--so the girls can beautify themselves 2) radios--so the girls should know what was going on in the velt.
Keeping in tune with the news is not usser.
Teens mimic adults? I thought that was more true of smaller kids, but teens? They tend to rebel, to seek individuation from their parents, to develop thier own independent personality and values. Put too tight a clamp on them and they will unscrew it. This is all very delciate and each situation is different.
As for emailing or telephoning relatives--I live in Australia and my relatives are in America. Obvious time difference problems. Emailing is my family's habit. Should I give that up too? I do not think it is neccessary.
Shoshana
who is your source for the Rebbe "requesting" that there be radios?
Mrs. Gansburg the dorm mother told this story many times. And ask Sara Labkofsky too. It is well known.
Why do you think most detectives on TV wore fedora hats like Sgt Friday of Dragnet.
They are deputid to arrest such criminals in lakewood.
But have no fear Mamon tsazil Mimaves .... veDA'Lemeyvin !!!
a Gut yohr und an easy fast !!
Banning the internet is a VIRTUAL UNREALITY in today's world (pun intended).
It will cause more mishagas than it solves,no doubt.
You may as well ban air.
YEA!
What kind of fool thinks banning is a good idea? Do you really think you can ban ham, improper clothes, non-Jewish wine or milk? Can you ban premarital relations? Can you ban polygamy? Cummon! Stupid ideas...
Internet should be used wisely. Good parenting is the key. Keep the computer in a room of the house that everyone uses, do not alow a child to have private unlimited access.
Is a ban is a sad sign of our times that parents cannot be trusted to parent properly?
The above post was made from Australia note the time difference.
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